(04-03-2021 07:11 PM)mustangxc Wrote:  As far as brands go, Dayton, VCU, and St. Louis aren't in the same stratosphere as UConn.

Much like "beauty," "brand" "is in the eye of the beholder."

Not everyone defines a school as having a great "brand" simply based on their accomplishments on the basketball court.

It takes more than that. It also takes a record of good sportsmanship to be a great brand. Teams that win by cheating - - not just once or twice, but repeatedly and remorselessly - - are not great brands; they are tainted brands.

Thus I do not consider UConn to have a stratospheric, but a tainted brand.

To be "stratospheric," they would have either had to establish a stronger brand than they did during their first 85 seasons, or earn their success since the past few decades without violating the rules.

Their high level of success didn't begin until the repeat-offender with multiple serious NCAA rule violations - Calhoun became their HC.

In other words, what some people mistake for a "stratospheric brand" was achieved by repeatedly violating the rules. UConn cheated for over two decades, and for every rule violation that they were caught for, there many others that they got away with. They had a terrible reputation, and for good reason.

....................................................................................................

By contrast, consider Dayton's history:

They didn't get their by relying on a cheating coach, but built a record of greatness over 6 decades:

NCAA Sweet 16: 1952, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1974, 1984, 2014

Elite 8: 1967, 1984, 2014; NCAA runner-up: 1967

....................................................................................................

Consider St. Louis:

1948 NIT Championship

NIT Runner-Up: 1961, 1998, 1990

NCAA Elite 8: 1957

Final AP Top 20 (*Top 25) teams in 1949, 1951, 1952, 1955, 1957, 1959, 1960, 1994*, 2013, and 2014*.

....................................................................................................

VCU is a comparative newcomer, dating back to 1973-74, but 23 of VCU's 47 teams have played in NIT (5) or NCAA (18) tournaments.

9 NCAA tournament teams since 2010-11 (record: 12-9)

Elite Eight & Final Four: 2011

CBI Championship: 2010

Final AP Top 20 or Top 25 teams: 1985, 2014, 2015


....................................................................................................

VCU is probably the best of the bunch right now, but all three of are classic basketball schools, and unlike UConn, they're not tainted by cheating scandals.

....................................................................................................




As I see it, VCU, Dayton, and St. Louis all have much better brands than the tainted UConn does, because they earned their success the right way.


For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

.

(04-03-2021 07:00 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 05:40 PM)TonyTiger06 Wrote:  [quote='GoOwls111' pid='17365333' dateline='1617423928']
It was definitely the right move, from the NBE they made the NCAA Tournament in Men's BB, as members of the AAC they would have ben in the NIT with Memphis and SMU, the BIAS against the AAC is too great because of the G5 label.

It's not the "G5 label" - - if it were, there wouldn't have been 4 AAC teams in the last NCAA tournament. The Big East teams in the tourney all got in due to their rankings.

The real problem was that the selection committee boosted the number of at-large teams from the P5 conferences from 26 to 29. That's not an "anti-G5" bias - - it is an outrageous "pro-P5" bias!

The point is that you can choose between feeling inferior about being "G5" or you can feel indignant about the selection committee's extreme and increasing bias toward the P5.

Ok - it's your choice - - do you want to feel inferior or feel righteous indignation because your school has been treated unfairly?

I choose the latter.

With their record and rankings, UConn would have been in the NCAA tournament regardless.

Quote:I disagree, but that’s my opinion. I would think and hope that the AAC conference presidents would accept them back into the conference, if they wanted back in.

They might let UConn back in, but it's hard to believe that they would want UConn FB.

Quote:I don’t think that is any other program out there that has as much to offer a conference in NCAA Men’s & Women’s Basketball.

Perhaps, but from a viewership and financial standpoint, men's basketball is to women's basketball as NCAA football is to men's basketball. In other words, men's basketball (MBB) matters a lot more than WBB does to the AAC.

If we compare UConn MBB with VCU MBB:

VCU has had a much more successful MBB program than UConn has had over the past decade.

UConn has only had one 21+ win season in the past six years, and only two 21+ seasons - and one Final AP top 25 team - in the past ten years.

VCU has had three 25+ win seasons in the past six years, and seven 25+ win seasons - and two Final AP top 25 teams - in the past ten years.

.

Dayton has had five 24+ win seasons in the past ten years, and they finished the 2019-20 season as the #3 team in the Final AP Top 25.

St. Louis has had five 23+ win seasons and 4 nationally-ranked teams - and two Final AP top 25 teams - in the past ten years.

.

UConn MBB wouldn't be a bad option, but it isn't necessarily the best available option if/when the American adds a BB school.

.

Does VCU have national championship in Men’s NCAA B’Ball? Also, how many Sweet 16 runs has it had in the last decade? I would venture that UConn has had both within the last 10 years. Just say ...

That being said, why not just stop the UConn bashing? All of this is meaningless. But, it would have been nice to get the BCS Bowl and have Final Four teams in both the Men’s and Women’s tournament. There are a lot of P5 conferences that wouldn’t have been able to make that claim ...

(04-03-2021 09:05 PM)TonyTiger06 Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 07:00 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 05:40 PM)TonyTiger06 Wrote:  [quote='GoOwls111' pid='17365333' dateline='1617423928']
It was definitely the right move, from the NBE they made the NCAA Tournament in Men's BB, as members of the AAC they would have ben in the NIT with Memphis and SMU, the BIAS against the AAC is too great because of the G5 label.

It's not the "G5 label" - - if it were, there wouldn't have been 4 AAC teams in the last NCAA tournament. The Big East teams in the tourney all got in due to their rankings.

The real problem was that the selection committee boosted the number of at-large teams from the P5 conferences from 26 to 29. That's not an "anti-G5" bias - - it is an outrageous "pro-P5" bias!

The point is that you can choose between feeling inferior about being "G5" or you can feel indignant about the selection committee's extreme and increasing bias toward the P5.

Ok - it's your choice - - do you want to feel inferior or feel righteous indignation because your school has been treated unfairly?

I choose the latter.

With their record and rankings, UConn would have been in the NCAA tournament regardless.

Quote:I disagree, but that’s my opinion. I would think and hope that the AAC conference presidents would accept them back into the conference, if they wanted back in.

They might let UConn back in, but it's hard to believe that they would want UConn FB.

Quote:I don’t think that is any other program out there that has as much to offer a conference in NCAA Men’s & Women’s Basketball.

Perhaps, but from a viewership and financial standpoint, men's basketball is to women's basketball as NCAA football is to men's basketball. In other words, men's basketball (MBB) matters a lot more than WBB does to the AAC.

If we compare UConn MBB with VCU MBB:

VCU has had a much more successful MBB program than UConn has had over the past decade.

UConn has only had one 21+ win season in the past six years, and only two 21+ seasons - and one Final AP top 25 team - in the past ten years.

VCU has had three 25+ win seasons in the past six years, and seven 25+ win seasons - and two Final AP top 25 teams - in the past ten years.

.

Dayton has had five 24+ win seasons in the past ten years, and they finished the 2019-20 season as the #3 team in the Final AP Top 25.

St. Louis has had five 23+ win seasons and 4 nationally-ranked teams - and two Final AP top 25 teams - in the past ten years.

.

UConn MBB wouldn't be a bad option, but it isn't necessarily the best available option if/when the American adds a BB school.

.

Does VCU have national championship in Men’s NCAA B’Ball? Also, how many Sweet 16 runs has it had in the last decade? I would venture that UConn has had both within the last 10 years. Just say ...

That being said, why not just stop the UConn bashing? All of this is meaningless. But, it would have been nice to get the BCS Bowl and have Final Four teams in both the Men’s and Women’s tournament. There are a lot of P5 conferences that wouldn’t have been able to make that claim ...

Don't waste your time. Jed is a notorious UConn hater.

I didn't read through this entire thread, but I'll say this. I think that the AAC had a Memphis and UCONN (after the championship) problem as far as perception goes. Cincy was being their good to great reliable selves and although some other teams had stepped up, perception wise it just didn't mean the same to the talking heads that crafted our perception. Now if Memphis, Houston can come back strong next season along with Wichita and if Cincy can make the right big time hire(Mike Miller, Rick Pitino or a comparable level named coach) that can come in and kill it in this crazy transfer season the AAC is set for its resurgence. [/i]

(04-03-2021 07:29 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 07:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 07:11 PM)mustangxc Wrote:  As far as brands go, Dayton, VCU, and St. Louis aren't in the same stratosphere as UConn.

No---but they are the best available. Futhermore, other than year one, the AAC has never really got the benefit of a blueblood UConn performing consistently like a blue blood. Instead, the typical VCU season would be substantially better than the typical UConn season in the AAC (year one excepted). There is no way to replace the brand value of UConn, but we can and should reload the upper half of our conference with another high quality basketball program like VCU to replace the basketball strength lost when UConn bailed.

I think VCU could improve this league but I disagree that they would substantially or evenly marginally improve it over what we had with UConn

Dont misunderstand. What Im saying is that if you go back and look at the relative strength numbers that UConn was adding to the AAC during their tenure---you'll see the typical VCU team will produced better numbers. It just happens that UConn was in a serious down cycle when they were here. That said---Obviously---brand value matters and there is no substitute for a well known state flagship team that has recently won multiple national titles. There is nothing we can do to replace that UConn brand value---but that doesnt mean we cant improve the league.

In my opinion---we can actually show relative improvement in AAC basketball strength despite losing UConn--simply because UConn wasnt doing all that well for most of their AAC tenure. Furthermore, we get the chance to drop our worst football program. That in itself---even if we dont replace the football program---improves the AAC overall football strength relative to other FBS conferences. If we were to eventually replace UConn football with someone like Boise---we would see a substantial improvement in overall AAC football strength.

Thus, while it is not optimum---its not impossible that the AAC comes out of this chapter in our history as an overall stronger conference than we were when UConn was a member. It may end up being a rare realignment situation where all parties end up "winning"---which would be nice to see for a change.

(04-03-2021 09:05 PM)TonyTiger06 Wrote:  Does VCU have national championship in Men’s NCAA B’Ball? Also, how many Sweet 16 runs has it had in the last decade?

UConn has had both within the last 10 years.

That being said, why not just stop the UConn bashing?

All of this is meaningless. But, it would have been nice to get the BCS Bowl and have Final Four teams in both the Men’s and Women’s tournament. There are a lot of P5 conferences that wouldn’t have been able to make that claim ...

Gee, Tony, you missed the whole point of what I wrote.

My argument was an example of ethical reasoning, but apparently, it just "didn't compute" when you read it.

.

Perhaps you're one of the fans who doesn't really care how a team wins. For such fans, winning is everything, even if you have to cheat to win.

That's what an ethicist would describe as amoral reasoning.

According to the founding principles of the NCAA, it's considered to be an unsportsmanike approach to the game.

You don't seem to care about it, but you're not alone. It seems that amoral thinking has become the norm.

I wish that I could change the situation. I can't, but at least I can let people know that there are some people in this world who still care about sportsmanship and ethical reasoning.

.

These words may not sink in, but this is the whole point of my post:

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


.

(04-03-2021 03:35 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 10:21 AM)mikeinoki Wrote:  
UCONN


Arizona coach flipping the bird after the win.

The media has lost their FU@KING mind... Why does this Idiot think that what she did is ok and KD is fined $50K for saying less in a private conversation

Maybe because it was the MEDIA (ESPN), that made a Final Four Promo Highlight and didn't even have ARIZONA in the clip!

(04-03-2021 09:16 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  I didn't read through this entire thread, but I'll say this. I think that the AAC had a Memphis and UCONN (after the championship) problem as far as perception goes. Cincy was being their good to great reliable selves and although some other teams had stepped up, perception wise it just didn't mean the same to the talking heads that crafted our perception. Now if Memphis, Houston can come back strong next season along with Wichita and if Cincy can make the right big time hire(Mike Miller, Rick Pitino or a comparable level named coach) that can come in and kill it in this crazy transfer season the AAC is set for its resurgence. [/i]

Couldnt agree more. Temple was kinda expected to be among our top performers too--but they have struggled. It would be nice to see that program come roaring back as well. Drop in one more top end program like VCU and this league starts to have a very nasty "every nights a battle" Big East feel to it.

A high end bowl for our champion is a good idea. The conference could annually retain some money from each school for a number of years to collect the required amount. If the conference retained $500,000 of the $7 million that each school is to get from the contract it would have $24 million in 4 years.

The bowl would enhance the brand and separate the AAC further from the G4.

(04-03-2021 09:22 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 09:05 PM)TonyTiger06 Wrote:  Does VCU have national championship in Men’s NCAA B’Ball? Also, how many Sweet 16 runs has it had in the last decade?

UConn has had both within the last 10 years.

That being said, why not just stop the UConn bashing?

All of this is meaningless. But, it would have been nice to get the BCS Bowl and have Final Four teams in both the Men’s and Women’s tournament. There are a lot of P5 conferences that wouldn’t have been able to make that claim ...

Gee, Tony, you missed the whole point of what I wrote.

My argument was an example of ethical reasoning, but apparently, it just "didn't compute" when you read it.

.

Perhaps you're one of the fans who doesn't really care how a team wins. For such fans, winning is everything, even if you have to cheat to win.

That's what an ethicist would describe as amoral reasoning.

According to the founding principles of the NCAA, it's considered to be an unsportsmanike approach to the game.

You don't seem to care about it, but you're not alone. It seems that amoral thinking has become the norm.

I wish that I could change the situation. I can't, but at least I can let people know that there are some people in this world who still care about sportsmanship and ethical reasoning.

.

These words may not sink in, but this is the whole point of my post:

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


.

Please don’t get me started on the NCAA ... ! They are still sweating us for allowing James Wiseman to play after the young man’s family got a court injunction permitting him to play despite the NCAA ruling. But they haven’t said a darn thing about FBI cases proving that Auburn, LSU, and Kansas were paying players. Notwithstanding that, there is a recording alleging that Zion Williamson’s family received $200k to induce him to go to Duke to play college basketball. So please don’t use the words NCAA and ethics in the same breath. Their distribution of penalties and allegations of penalties seem extremely biased.

(04-03-2021 01:08 AM)TripleA Wrote:  The Big East name was toxic to football. If we wanted to be a basketball conference, fine. But the money was, and still is in football.

Woulda coulda shoulda...

This^^^^.

+2

(04-03-2021 09:52 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  A high end bowl for our champion is a good idea. The conference could annually retain some money from each school for a number of years to collect the required amount. If the conference retained $500,000 of the $7 million that each school is to get from the contract it would have $24 million in 4 years.

The bowl would enhance the brand and separate the AAC further from the G4.

My idea for years now Is this. The AAC has some of the absolute riches people (corporate donors) in the country) as boosters. Why can't our universities and those entities such as FedEx, Walmart, Fertitta, the US Navy and others devise a strategic plan and literally agree to spend their corporate advertising dollars ( which are already allocated in their yearly business expenses) on a contract bowl, rather than their own personal billions. If we can get say,,,,10 to guarantee 3-5 million in advertising and sponsorships why wouldn't ESPN and say the Pac-12 not be willing to except that guaranteed check. IDK maybe it doesn't make sense.

(04-03-2021 11:00 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 09:52 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  A high end bowl for our champion is a good idea. The conference could annually retain some money from each school for a number of years to collect the required amount. If the conference retained $500,000 of the $7 million that each school is to get from the contract it would have $24 million in 4 years.

The bowl would enhance the brand and separate the AAC further from the G4.

My idea for years now Is this. The AAC has some of the absolute riches people (corporate donors) in the country) as boosters. Why can't our universities and those entities such as FedEx, Walmart, Fertitta, the US Navy and others devise a strategic plan and literally agree to spend their corporate advertising dollars ( which are already allocated in their yearly business expenses) on a contract bowl, rather than their own personal billions. If we can get say,,,,10 to guarantee 3-5 million in advertising and sponsorships why wouldn't ESPN and say the Pac-12 not be willing to except that guaranteed check. IDK maybe it doesn't make sense.

because you do not get or stay rich by making horrible financial decisions.

(04-03-2021 10:36 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 10:32 AM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  Our conference has an identity...strongest football conference by far outside the P5 and rivaling the lower P5s. Good competitive multi-bid basketball conference that will average 3 bids/year. UConn doesn’t fit that image with their football indifference and haven’t been good enough in hoops to make up for it

I've posted many times that I felt the UConn departure hurts the American in many ways. Stellar women's hoops. A damn good baseball program. National titles in men's basketball. A major Top 70 university.

Penny Hardaway said he did not want UConn to leave the AAC. I agree with him.

https://www.middletownpress.com/sports/a...114552.php

Depends on what this league is to you. If it's primarily for basketball, then yes, losing UConn is a blow, although I don't think it has the impact you do.

However, if this is first a football league (which it is, just look at the TV contract, 70%+ football), then UConn was a giant anchor dragging down football, and it was better we part ways.

And of course Penny will say it's a loss, b/c he's the basketball coach.

Ask Ryan Silverfield what he thinks, lol.

I have zero animosity toward UConn. I wish them well. But their basketball is better off in the Big East, and our football is sure as hell better off without them. Win win. Actually, best for us would have been if UConn stayed and dropped football, lol.

Now if basketball pulled in 70+% of the revenue, then I would feel differently. But it doesn't. And UConn football will never be AAC quality or better, b/c the university and its fans don't care about football. It could die, and few tears would be shed.

(04-03-2021 11:30 PM)Agust Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 11:00 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 09:52 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  A high end bowl for our champion is a good idea. The conference could annually retain some money from each school for a number of years to collect the required amount. If the conference retained $500,000 of the $7 million that each school is to get from the contract it would have $24 million in 4 years.

The bowl would enhance the brand and separate the AAC further from the G4.

My idea for years now Is this. The AAC has some of the absolute riches people (corporate donors) in the country) as boosters. Why can't our universities and those entities such as FedEx, Walmart, Fertitta, the US Navy and others devise a strategic plan and literally agree to spend their corporate advertising dollars ( which are already allocated in their yearly business expenses) on a contract bowl, rather than their own personal billions. If we can get say,,,,10 to guarantee 3-5 million in advertising and sponsorships why wouldn't ESPN and say the Pac-12 not be willing to except that guaranteed check. IDK maybe it doesn't make sense.

because you do not get or stay rich by making horrible financial decisions.

I guess you skimmed over the part about pre allocated corporate advertising dollars (that takes the burden off of their actual personal fortunes),,,,but hey that was a pretty snarky as remark tho.

(04-03-2021 09:22 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 09:05 PM)TonyTiger06 Wrote:  Does VCU have national championship in Men’s NCAA B’Ball? Also, how many Sweet 16 runs has it had in the last decade?

UConn has had both within the last 10 years.

That being said, why not just stop the UConn bashing?

All of this is meaningless. But, it would have been nice to get the BCS Bowl and have Final Four teams in both the Men’s and Women’s tournament. There are a lot of P5 conferences that wouldn’t have been able to make that claim ...

Gee, Tony, you missed the whole point of what I wrote.

My argument was an example of ethical reasoning, but apparently, it just "didn't compute" when you read it.

.

Perhaps you're one of the fans who doesn't really care how a team wins. For such fans, winning is everything, even if you have to cheat to win.

That's what an ethicist would describe as amoral reasoning.

According to the founding principles of the NCAA, it's considered to be an unsportsmanike approach to the game.

You don't seem to care about it, but you're not alone. It seems that amoral thinking has become the norm.

I wish that I could change the situation. I can't, but at least I can let people know that there are some people in this world who still care about sportsmanship and ethical reasoning.

.

These words may not sink in, but this is the whole point of my post:

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


.

All elite programs cheat, whether you like it or not. It’s all about not getting caught.

Again, if you want VCU pair them with ARMY... Does anyone honestly think that that is the best the AAC can do?

I rather stay at 11 if that is the best this conference can do.

(04-04-2021 01:18 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 11:30 PM)Agust Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 11:00 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(04-03-2021 09:52 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  A high end bowl for our champion is a good idea. The conference could annually retain some money from each school for a number of years to collect the required amount. If the conference retained $500,000 of the $7 million that each school is to get from the contract it would have $24 million in 4 years.

The bowl would enhance the brand and separate the AAC further from the G4.

My idea for years now Is this. The AAC has some of the absolute riches people (corporate donors) in the country) as boosters. Why can't our universities and those entities such as FedEx, Walmart, Fertitta, the US Navy and others devise a strategic plan and literally agree to spend their corporate advertising dollars ( which are already allocated in their yearly business expenses) on a contract bowl, rather than their own personal billions. If we can get say,,,,10 to guarantee 3-5 million in advertising and sponsorships why wouldn't ESPN and say the Pac-12 not be willing to except that guaranteed check. IDK maybe it doesn't make sense.

because you do not get or stay rich by making horrible financial decisions.

I guess you skimmed over the part about pre allocated corporate advertising dollars (that takes the burden off of their actual personal fortunes),,,,but hey that was a pretty snarky as remark tho.

i understand what your saying and as a fan I wish it was that easy.
but nothing is free. i know it is cliche to say that but it is. no one has "free" money floating around. you're basically just moving around money at the expense of advertising a business.
if something could've been done for free i'm such the donors would've been all up for it. i know tillman did spend some millions of his own personal money on coaches at UH so it is possible something could come up...but it won't be free. they'll be paying for it.

(04-04-2021 09:14 AM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  Again, if you want VCU pair them with ARMY... Does anyone honestly think that that is the best the AAC can do?

I rather stay at 11 if that is the best this conference can do.

we can't even do that as Army isn't interested in a conference after their CUSA experiment.

(04-03-2021 01:08 AM)TripleA Wrote:  The Big East name was toxic to football. If we wanted to be a basketball conference, fine. But the money was, and still is in football.

^ this is the crux of the issue...if Memphis, Cincy, Houston, etc suddenly stopped giving a crap about football they would LOVE to be in the BE but it would mean the end of our football programs (see UConn's 2020 football season lol) and we're not OK with that.