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Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
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esayem Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 01:55 PM)schmolik Wrote:  I think I said previously once Jay Wright and Villanova took off, the other city schools have plummeted. Temple's move to the AAC might mean more dollars for their athletic department but more losses for their men's basketball team. Their football team might be better but that's about it. Ask their baseball and softball teams how they're doing. Oh wait you can't because they were cut because of the move to the AAC! You think Temple can afford to fly their teams to Texas? If they were in the A-10 they can afford to have those teams. I had completely forgotten about Drexel until this year.

I've been to all six of the gyms in the area. I was most recently at St. Joe's remodeled arena. Nice but small. I haven't been to Villanova's Pavillion since they remodeled it but was there a few times before hand. It's tough to get tickets to either St. Joe's or Villanova because they're small. If I want to see 'Nova I usually just go to the Sixers arena. Temple is usually easy to get and their arena is fairly modern although the AAC opponents aren't usually worth going to see, especially now with UConn gone. I don't think Drexel and LaSalle are worth going to anymore (LaSalle's Sweet 16 year came out of nowhere). The Palestra is historic but I'm not really a fan. They also play very few day games and that's not an area I want to be at at night. There have been a few days I've gone to two men's basketball games in the Philly area in the same day. Once the pandemic is over I might try that again. I've also been to Princeton for a few games. They also have a lot of night games and their arena isn't easy to find plus there are almost no restaurants around there (or at least ones I'm familiar with).

No love for the Blue Hens?
04-01-2021 02:41 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #42
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 02:39 PM)TUowl06 Wrote:  My major gripe with the AAC is Temple's location to fellow members. I love to attend away games/visit other universities (weekend roadies) and sadly that simply isn't an option now that UConn has left. I drove down to ECU for a football game in 2015 but that's it;

That's the Achille's Heel. From a competitive and status POV, the AAC is the right current place for Temple as it builds towards the ultimate goal of a P5 bid.

But culturally and geographically, there is no fit at all. Especially since UConn left, Temple is on a north-eastern island, ironic for the former "Big East" conference.
04-01-2021 02:43 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 02:14 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 01:45 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  The CAA is just an odd conference. When people take a look at it they usually come to the conclusion that the conference doesn't make too much sense as is, but none of the members really have a more viable option at the moment.

It truly is.

It’s an odd combination of schools who don’t quite have academics to be in the Patriot League, but also don’t have the athletic prowess to be in the A-10, but none the less, count themselves to be the academic and athletic superiors of more regional conferences: the MAAC, NEC, and America East in the North and the SoCon and Big South in the South.

I don’t understand the dislike of the CAA. The CAA prioritizes football. The A10 is focused on basketball. The Patriot is following the Ivy D1 model...were sports are funded, but only within strict limits. The three conferences have different missions in overlapping geography.

Comparing institutional academics to the Patriot, William & Mary and Northeastern are very selective...more so than most Patriot schools. JMU and Elon are also very strong. The Patriot has a homogeneous profile (small private universities), but it does not have across the board higher academic standards.

Because high-level FCS football is more difficult (than basketball) to manage, the CAA has a much more diverse profile and more transient members. They allow football-only (Richmond, Villanova, Stony Brook) members. They allow non-football (Drexel) members that have rivalries with core members (Delaware). For the core schools (JMU, W&M, Delaware and Towson), the conference makes sense...they’re just trying to find like minded institutions.
04-01-2021 02:53 PM
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LostInSpace Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 02:40 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 01:45 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  The CAA is just an odd conference. When people take a look at it they usually come to the conclusion that the conference doesn't make too much sense as is, but none of the members really have a more viable option at the moment.

I think William & Mary should have received the A10 invite over Mason. Probably would have with a bit more life in the basketball department.

Subsequent to Richmond’s admission the A10 adopted a policy of not considering schools that sponsor scholarship football for admission and none of the schools they’ve added or vetted since then have sponsored scholarship football.
04-01-2021 02:55 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 02:53 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 02:14 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 01:45 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  The CAA is just an odd conference. When people take a look at it they usually come to the conclusion that the conference doesn't make too much sense as is, but none of the members really have a more viable option at the moment.

It truly is.

It’s an odd combination of schools who don’t quite have academics to be in the Patriot League, but also don’t have the athletic prowess to be in the A-10, but none the less, count themselves to be the academic and athletic superiors of more regional conferences: the MAAC, NEC, and America East in the North and the SoCon and Big South in the South.

I don’t understand the dislike of the CAA. The CAA prioritizes football. The A10 is focused on basketball. The Patriot is following the Ivy D1 model...were sports are funded, but only within strict limits. The three conferences have different missions in overlapping geography.

Comparing institutional academics to the Patriot, William & Mary and Northeastern are very selective...more so than most Patriot schools. JMU and Elon are also very strong. The Patriot has a homogeneous profile (small private universities), but it does not have across the board higher academic standards.

Because high-level FCS football is more difficult (than basketball) to manage, the CAA has a much more diverse profile and more transient members. They allow football-only (Richmond, Villanova, Stony Brook) members. They allow non-football (Drexel) members that have rivalries with core members (Delaware). For the core schools (JMU, W&M, Delaware and Towson), the conference makes sense...they’re just trying to find like minded institutions.

I don’t dislike them—I just find them to be an odd mix.

CAA doesn’t universally value football—half the conference doesn’t even field teams

Also, I think you’re confused on the Patriot—they abandoned the Ivy model and offer scholarships now.
04-01-2021 03:20 PM
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TDenverFan Online
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Post: #46
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
They share the same leadership, but I think CAA Football is technically a separate entity from the CAA.
04-01-2021 03:26 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 02:14 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 01:45 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  The CAA is just an odd conference. When people take a look at it they usually come to the conclusion that the conference doesn't make too much sense as is, but none of the members really have a more viable option at the moment.

It truly is.

It’s an odd combination of schools who don’t quite have academics to be in the Patriot League, but also don’t have the athletic prowess to be in the A-10, but none the less, count themselves to be the academic and athletic superiors of more regional conferences: the MAAC, NEC, and America East in the North and the SoCon and Big South in the South.

Yeah, that's a pretty solid description. Northeastern/Hofstra used to offer football, which is how they avoided the AE/NEC/MAAC, but have since dropped it and definitely like the slight prestige bump the CAA has over those conferences.

The one upside the CAA has is most of the members play in or near relatively large cities, which is nice for recruiting and alumni purposes.

Every now and then W&M to the Patriot gets brought up, and while it would be sorta nice to be with academic peers, we would stick out like a sore thumb there as a southern public school. It's a downgrade in athletic competition level and rivalry - I care more about JMU and Delaware than I do Loyola (MD) and Colgate.
04-01-2021 03:29 PM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 02:14 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 01:45 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  The CAA is just an odd conference. When people take a look at it they usually come to the conclusion that the conference doesn't make too much sense as is, but none of the members really have a more viable option at the moment.

It truly is.

It’s an odd combination of schools who don’t quite have academics to be in the Patriot League, but also don’t have the athletic prowess to be in the A-10, but none the less, count themselves to be the academic and athletic superiors of more regional conferences: the MAAC, NEC, and America East in the North and the SoCon and Big South in the South.

Or in the case of Charleston, being a basketball school in a Football region. If they had football they probably would have stayed in SoCon.
04-01-2021 03:36 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 02:40 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 01:45 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  The CAA is just an odd conference. When people take a look at it they usually come to the conclusion that the conference doesn't make too much sense as is, but none of the members really have a more viable option at the moment.

I think William & Mary should have received the A10 invite over Mason. Probably would have with a bit more life in the basketball department.

A team that made the Final Four in 2006 vs. a team that I can't remember ever making the NCAA Tournament????? William & Mary in men's basketball might be worse than Duquesne!
04-01-2021 03:47 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 02:41 PM)esayem Wrote:  No love for the Blue Hens?

Been to the campus, never been to a basketball game there.
04-01-2021 03:48 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(03-31-2021 12:18 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(03-31-2021 11:04 AM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  
(03-31-2021 07:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  St. Joe’s and LaSalle would be crazy to leave. They have a built-in recruiting pitch of playing in a superior league to the MAAC and CAA.

Temple might already do this in a normal season, but should load up with regional foes and of course the Big 5. In football, keep teams like Villanova, Penn St., UConn, UMass, Rutgers, and Pitt on the schedule. Maybe even West Virginia, which surely would like some regional games.

Also I think it’s funny Manhattan College is in the Bronx.

Manhattan College WAS in Manhattan when it was founded but moved to the present location in 1922.

Then there is Manhattanville College, who got eminent domained to the burbs by NYC. Campus taken by City College. So they moved to Purchase, where the SUNY system promptly established a campus a few miles away a decade or so later. Bummer.

It ended up just fine for them. Manhattanville got a queen's ransom for their campus - $8.8 million (in 1952 dollars) for a campus that was bursting at the seams to educate a mere 400 students.

They used the money to nearly quadruple than in size over the next 18 years.
04-01-2021 03:50 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 02:55 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 02:40 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 01:45 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  The CAA is just an odd conference. When people take a look at it they usually come to the conclusion that the conference doesn't make too much sense as is, but none of the members really have a more viable option at the moment.

I think William & Mary should have received the A10 invite over Mason. Probably would have with a bit more life in the basketball department.

Subsequent to Richmond’s admission the A10 adopted a policy of not considering schools that sponsor scholarship football for admission and none of the schools they’ve added or vetted since then have sponsored scholarship football.

Didn’t know that. So that giant thread about adding Old Dominion and UNCC was garbage.
04-01-2021 05:27 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 03:47 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 02:40 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 01:45 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  The CAA is just an odd conference. When people take a look at it they usually come to the conclusion that the conference doesn't make too much sense as is, but none of the members really have a more viable option at the moment.

I think William & Mary should have received the A10 invite over Mason. Probably would have with a bit more life in the basketball department.

A team that made the Final Four in 2006 vs. a team that I can't remember ever making the NCAA Tournament????? William & Mary in men's basketball might be worse than Duquesne!

Better institutional fit IMO, basketball aside. No, W&M has never danced.

GMU got in because of VCU I imagine, and their Final Four was a fluke. They’ve only made six tournaments.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2021 05:33 PM by esayem.)
04-01-2021 05:31 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
GMU made far more sense, and still has more potential as a program than W&M. Bigger school in a bigger metro area.

Obviously most CAA schools would love an A-10 invite, but it isn't happening any time soon.
04-01-2021 05:42 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 05:31 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 03:47 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 02:40 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 01:45 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  The CAA is just an odd conference. When people take a look at it they usually come to the conclusion that the conference doesn't make too much sense as is, but none of the members really have a more viable option at the moment.

I think William & Mary should have received the A10 invite over Mason. Probably would have with a bit more life in the basketball department.

A team that made the Final Four in 2006 vs. a team that I can't remember ever making the NCAA Tournament????? William & Mary in men's basketball might be worse than Duquesne!

Better institutional fit IMO, basketball aside. No, W&M has never danced.

GMU got in because of VCU I imagine, and their Final Four was a fluke. They’ve only made six tournaments.

GMU is lucky to be in the A10. The school enrollment number is big but the fan base is small.
04-01-2021 05:57 PM
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LostInSpace Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 05:27 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 02:55 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 02:40 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 01:45 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  The CAA is just an odd conference. When people take a look at it they usually come to the conclusion that the conference doesn't make too much sense as is, but none of the members really have a more viable option at the moment.

I think William & Mary should have received the A10 invite over Mason. Probably would have with a bit more life in the basketball department.

Subsequent to Richmond’s admission the A10 adopted a policy of not considering schools that sponsor scholarship football for admission and none of the schools they’ve added or vetted since then have sponsored scholarship football.

Didn’t know that. So that giant thread about adding Old Dominion and UNCC was garbage.

That thread was garbage. The backups if Davidson didn’t join were Siena, Fairfield and Iona. If the A10 has to add a new member that’s where the list begins and might be where it ends. They’ve never considered Hofstra previously but perhaps they might in the future. I can’t think of any other schools that likely meet the A10’s geographic and institutional requirements.
04-01-2021 06:04 PM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 06:04 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 05:27 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 02:55 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 02:40 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 01:45 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  The CAA is just an odd conference. When people take a look at it they usually come to the conclusion that the conference doesn't make too much sense as is, but none of the members really have a more viable option at the moment.

I think William & Mary should have received the A10 invite over Mason. Probably would have with a bit more life in the basketball department.

Subsequent to Richmond’s admission the A10 adopted a policy of not considering schools that sponsor scholarship football for admission and none of the schools they’ve added or vetted since then have sponsored scholarship football.

Didn’t know that. So that giant thread about adding Old Dominion and UNCC was garbage.

That thread was garbage. The backups if Davidson didn’t join were Siena, Fairfield and Iona. If the A10 has to add a new member that’s where the list begins and might be where it ends. They’ve never considered Hofstra previously but perhaps they might in the future. I can’t think of any other schools that likely meet the A10’s geographic and institutional requirements.

If you take the "Atlantic" of Atlantic 10 seriously, Charleston would be a good fit with the VCU and George Mason part of it.
04-01-2021 06:55 PM
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LostInSpace Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 06:55 PM)whittx Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 06:04 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 05:27 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 02:55 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(04-01-2021 02:40 PM)esayem Wrote:  I think William & Mary should have received the A10 invite over Mason. Probably would have with a bit more life in the basketball department.

Subsequent to Richmond’s admission the A10 adopted a policy of not considering schools that sponsor scholarship football for admission and none of the schools they’ve added or vetted since then have sponsored scholarship football.

Didn’t know that. So that giant thread about adding Old Dominion and UNCC was garbage.

That thread was garbage. The backups if Davidson didn’t join were Siena, Fairfield and Iona. If the A10 has to add a new member that’s where the list begins and might be where it ends. They’ve never considered Hofstra previously but perhaps they might in the future. I can’t think of any other schools that likely meet the A10’s geographic and institutional requirements.

If you take the "Atlantic" of Atlantic 10 seriously, Charleston would be a good fit with the VCU and George Mason part of it.

Charleston is a strong candidate and Davidson lobbied for them to be invited when they joined. Charleston’s location works against them because it adds flights for most members. There is a good chance that’s a deal breaker.
04-01-2021 07:02 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(03-31-2021 08:07 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  I was surprised to learn that Temple was originally invited to the Big East, prior to Villanova’s admission. Temple AD’s need to align with JoPa/Penn State for football in the late 1970s had a huge impact. They were really in the same boat as Rutgers and Holy Cross.

Not true. Nor was St. Joe's, who has also claimed as such.

Original invitees:

Charter schools:
1. Providence
2. Georgetown
3. Syracuse
4. St. John's

Invited:
5. Boston College
6. Holy Cross, declined
7. Rutgers, declined
8. Seton Hall
9. Connecticut
10. Villanova, had to give the Eastern 8 one year's notice

None of the four AD's at the start (Gavitt, Rienzo, Crouthamel, Kaiser) ever discussed Temple as a invitee.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2021 09:57 PM by DFW HOYA.)
04-01-2021 09:52 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools
(04-01-2021 09:52 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(03-31-2021 08:07 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  I was surprised to learn that Temple was originally invited to the Big East, prior to Villanova’s admission. Temple AD’s need to align with JoPa/Penn State for football in the late 1970s had a huge impact. They were really in the same boat as Rutgers and Holy Cross.

Not true. Nor was St. Joe's, who has also claimed as such.

Original invitees:

Charter schools:
1. Providence
2. Georgetown
3. Syracuse
4. St. John's

Invited:
5. Boston College
6. Holy Cross, declined
7. Rutgers, declined
8. Seton Hall
9. Connecticut
10. Villanova, had to give the Eastern 8 one year's notice

None of the four AD's at the start (Gavitt, Rienzo, Crouthamel, Kaiser) ever discussed Temple as a invitee.

I was skeptical of the Holy Cross invite for some time. I guess UConn got their spot though. It must have been a behind closed doors denial.

Holy Cross basketball denied their way into irrelevance by declining the Big East and A10.
04-01-2021 10:59 PM
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