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Will the AAC get a decent payout
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geosnooker2000 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
(03-30-2021 05:14 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 03:31 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 09:52 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 08:58 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 08:36 AM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  Each game played by a team gives the conference a payout. Those are paid out ~250-k - 300k a year for 6 years (amount changes each year). So each game is worth 1.5-1.8 million. The conference then decides how to split out the pay. I believe the AAC does an equal split.

This year credits so far are:
Wichita: 1 Credit
Houston: 5 Credits

Oh I see, so we are still receiving payouts from 2015 and every yr since then? That's pretty cool and didn't realize it was such a sizeable amount of money. Probably helps out these non-football conferences that rely on these credits that have little to no TV contracts.


You have inadvertently shown why the CFP is a bubble that will pop.

What you just realized is why so many more schools play division 1 basketball than FBS or division 1 football. It is far more profitable to be a basketball school than a football school. It's the difference between playing the lotto and playing Texas hold 'em in trying to make money.

Because football only has six or seven home games and basketball may have 20 the difference in attendance is negligible, in pure ratings of eyes on tv it's not much different, in access the difference has always been huge in basketball's favor. Considering what the NCAA tournament pays out compared to bowls (which have now been hoarded to a handful of teams) and you need only one good player in basketball to turn a program around, it starts getting to the point where you wonder why anyone besides Alabama and Texas try to even play football. Basketball is cheaper, its return is higher, turn around happen fast and during down times it drags less on the budget (also why women's basketball continues to thrive and nearly every school has one) and in good times the pay off is crazy.

Even the return on alum donations, freshman application, and the quality of the student applicant is about equal with first round, second round, final four run to a low level bowl, a name bowl, and a NY6.

The problem is Joe Q Public like you have no idea of the underlying economics. You see big stadiums, big games, and the ESPN hype machine of game day because essentially all the games happen on one day, versus the marathons.of short sprints that is the college season. Bowl seasons length also helps hide this since it goes roughly the same length of time as the Dance but has 60% of the games, with ESPN desperate to hype everyone of them since they own them. So if you don't ever actually look what's going on and the underlying costs of football, it seems like football is the golden ticket. In reality for its level playing field and foundational differences in costs and returns basketball is where it is at.

Which again is why there are far more division 1 basketball schools than football.

ESPN pays us $83million to play football on their network. Okay... 67% of that, at least by conservative estimates. So $56milion. I guarantee you, you shut down AAC football tomorrow, every bit of that $56million evaporates.

So according to a previous post in this thread, we get, under the best circumstances, $10million a year for tournament credits. You add that to the $27million, and you come to $37million per year for the whole conference for basketball.

Even leaving out any income from bowl payouts and the CFP scraps (our CFP share varies depending on if we make the Access Slot Bowl), $56million is still > than $37million.

In summation, we make more than twice as much on football as we do on basketball.

ETA: Just went and checked it out here: https://collegefootballplayoff.com/sport...ution.aspx
That $56MM(ESPN) + $22.4MM (Thanks Cincy for the extra $4MM... Thanks Tigers from the year before) = $78MM, and that doesn't include any other bowl income.

*Sigh

Now do how much it costs us to play football versus basketball.

I again point out to you the obvious answer not the rah rah fan but football! How many schools play FBS football? How many play Division 1 basketball?

Can you name a school who plays football but not basketball?

80+ scholarships and a much bigger staff

13 scholarships four coaches

I am sure all these university presidents just don't get it. Never mind you made a ton of assumptions and ignored points like the similarities in raw numbers over a season in every catagory but football contracts handed out by ESPN and an underperforming basketball tournament time period.

I will wait for your examples of football only division one schools. I mean we have basketball, wrestling, baseball, and hockey division 1 only. There has to be a football one right, I mean it's a gold mine right 07-coffee3

*sigh...

We've had these discussions for years. You think this has been a discussion, you should have seen the Memphis board when Larry Porter was our coach for his two years of futility. We had a small contingent of Memphis fans screaming to shut down football. In the end, we decided that we would consider the dynamic model, rather than the static model. That is: Sports is the front porch of your University. When we made strides in football, EVEN AFTER Calipari had his deep run in basketball, we saw a great increase in enrollment and a broadening of our application base that correlated with football success.

The reason you see schools with basketball, but no football is, basketball is cheap and easy... as you have already stated. But, that is totally irrelevant. Totally. Because we DO play football. And if you DO play football, you have to maximize ROI. Are you going to lead the charge to shut down Tulsa football? If so, go ahead. I would suggest to you that the culture @ Tulsa is quite different than The University of Memphis, you being a private school and us being a public state school. Something like shuttering football would never fly in Memphis. We HAVE to be all sports. Our financial model relies on mass enrollment.

So *SINCE* we are GOING to be playing football for the foreseeable future, we have to let it drive the train. People who have tried it the other way (unless you are in a P5 conference - i.e. Vanderbilt, Kansas, etc.) have struggled mightily (Memphis before the Tommy West speech).
03-30-2021 05:40 PM
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bullsbucsfan426 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
It's true that basketball is a lower cost sport. 13 scholarships and 4 coaches are definitely cheaper to support than 85 scholarship players and 8 coaches.

But average attendance across the top ten conferences is around 8500 (tilted heavily towards the top 5). The AAC averages 5569 (see link below for my backup).

https://www.collegexpress.com/lists/list...ences/503/

If you take that across 15 games, that's 127500, and around 106000 for the AAC. In 2019, Precovid-the FBS number was 41677, and the AAC average was 29k. That's 250k per season for the FBS and 180k for the AAC, which is an enormous difference. That doesn't factor in concession sales(which most schools get), parking, merchandise, and the rest. It also doesn't factor in that football donations tend to be much higher than basketball ones.

In essence, the floor might be a little lower in football-but the ceiling is much much higher no matter who you are.
03-30-2021 05:43 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
(03-30-2021 05:43 PM)bullsbucsfan426 Wrote:  It's true that basketball is a lower cost sport. 13 scholarships and 4 coaches are definitely cheaper to support than 85 scholarship players and 8 coaches.

But average attendance across the top ten conferences is around 8500 (tilted heavily towards the top 5). The AAC averages 5569 (see link below for my backup).

https://www.collegexpress.com/lists/list...ences/503/

If you take that across 15 games, that's 127500, and around 106000 for the AAC. In 2019, Precovid-the FBS number was 41677, and the AAC average was 29k. That's 250k per season for the FBS and 180k for the AAC, which is an enormous difference. That doesn't factor in concession sales(which most schools get), parking, merchandise, and the rest. It also doesn't factor in that football donations tend to be much higher than basketball ones.

In essence, the floor might be a little lower in football-but the ceiling is much much higher no matter who you are.


Fortunately, money isn't everything - - at least not this year, considering that the American has both a final four team and the NIT champion.

In addition, assuming that Gonzaga continues to dominate USC, 2 of the final four teams will be representing the AAC and WCC, which are non-A5/P5 conferences.

This, despite the fact that 75% of the 1-11 seeds came from A5/P5 conferences.

.
03-30-2021 06:41 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
(03-30-2021 03:10 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(03-29-2021 10:40 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The key is to get a bunch of teams in on a consistent basis and have at least one or two each year go on a nice run. Thats how you really start piling up big stacks of credits.

And now you know why the committee places G5 teams in the same bracket to eliminate the possibility of multiple members of a said conference going on long runs. They eliminate each other.

Half the final 4 field will be from non-power conferences. Frankly---I dont really care what happens to rest of the G5 in basketball. My concern is the AAC and its my belief that the only way to build a bid manufacturing machine is to create a core of power basketball programs that push the AAC SOS into a range that looks like the other power conferences. If we can create a big enough core of power basketball programs at the top of our league---we can generate NCAA bids in numbers more similar to the P5 and Big East. That said---we need to do it in a way that does nothing to adversely affect football. I think 1 or 2 more non-football members with very strong basketball programs that consistently make the tournament (and win games there) can help in that regard. What I dont want to do is add a all-sports member with bad football just to get a good basketball program. Thats the wrong approach.
(This post was last modified: 03-30-2021 10:18 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-30-2021 10:15 PM
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WhoseHouse? Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
What the league needs now is another program to make a deep run, to help avoid the perception that we're just another WCC.
03-30-2021 10:25 PM
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Square Knight Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
I found this article saying that this year each credit is worth $337,141.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristi...n-...will-last/

So, each each credit is worth a total of $2,022,846 to the conference.

And with the conference earning six credits from this tournament, the total payment for credits earned this year would be $12,137,076.
03-30-2021 10:32 PM
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Square Knight Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
We do not need to add basketball schools.

We need the traditional basketball schools (Memphis, Houston, Cincinnati, Wichita State) to be consistently good enough to get tournament bids each year and for one or two other schools to play well enough to also get bids.

It will not be easy, but it is possible. Cinci looks like it will be down and out for a few years...but I think Houston, Wichita St and Memphis are strong enough programs to all get tournament bids next year.
03-30-2021 10:37 PM
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PirateJP Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
(03-30-2021 08:54 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  Here are are the AAC Tournament credits per year
2015- 3
2016-5
2017-3
2018-5
2019-7
2020-NA
2021-6
Total for 6 years 29 at 300k per credit is 8.7 million per year divided by 11 comes out to 790k yearly per team

According to this article I read on Forbes 2020 will be counted in the 6 year rolling average, so that's a big fat ZERO, not just for the AAC but for everybody. Here is the quote and the link.

Quote:Unfortunately, it’s not simply a one-year impact. Revenue distributed through the Basketball Performance Fund ($168.6 million in 2021) and the Equal Conference Fund ($53.9 million in 2021) are based on a six-year rolling period based on performance in the tournament. That means for six years, 2020 will be a zero in that calculation.

Forbes
03-30-2021 10:53 PM
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geosnooker2000 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
(03-30-2021 10:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 03:10 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(03-29-2021 10:40 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The key is to get a bunch of teams in on a consistent basis and have at least one or two each year go on a nice run. Thats how you really start piling up big stacks of credits.

And now you know why the committee places G5 teams in the same bracket to eliminate the possibility of multiple members of a said conference going on long runs. They eliminate each other.

Half the final 4 field will be from non-power conferences. Frankly---I dont really care what happens to rest of the G5 in basketball. My concern is the AAC and its my belief that the only way to build a bid manufacturing machine is to create a core of power basketball programs that push the AAC SOS into a range that looks like the other power conferences. If we can create a big enough core of power basketball programs at the top of our league---we can generate NCAA bids in numbers more similar to the P5 and Big East. That said---we need to do it in a way that does nothing to adversely affect football. I think 1 or 2 more non-football members with very strong basketball programs that consistently make the tournament (and win games there) can help in that regard. What I dont want to do is add a all-sports member with bad football just to get a good basketball program. Thats the wrong approach.

Neither do I, but what I meant was, look what they did to Memphis and SMU in the NIT bracket. They either made sure that only one of us would reach the FF, or they just were so lazy they didn't care. But you can bet they consciously put Ole Miss and Miss. St. in different quadrants. I'll admit they had Houston and Hitachi on opposite sides, but I am a conspiracy theorist, and I think they will keep a brotha down if they can.
(This post was last modified: 03-30-2021 11:29 PM by geosnooker2000.)
03-30-2021 11:28 PM
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PirateJP Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
(03-30-2021 11:28 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 10:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 03:10 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(03-29-2021 10:40 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The key is to get a bunch of teams in on a consistent basis and have at least one or two each year go on a nice run. Thats how you really start piling up big stacks of credits.

And now you know why the committee places G5 teams in the same bracket to eliminate the possibility of multiple members of a said conference going on long runs. They eliminate each other.

Half the final 4 field will be from non-power conferences. Frankly---I dont really care what happens to rest of the G5 in basketball. My concern is the AAC and its my belief that the only way to build a bid manufacturing machine is to create a core of power basketball programs that push the AAC SOS into a range that looks like the other power conferences. If we can create a big enough core of power basketball programs at the top of our league---we can generate NCAA bids in numbers more similar to the P5 and Big East. That said---we need to do it in a way that does nothing to adversely affect football. I think 1 or 2 more non-football members with very strong basketball programs that consistently make the tournament (and win games there) can help in that regard. What I dont want to do is add a all-sports member with bad football just to get a good basketball program. Thats the wrong approach.

Neither do I, but what I meant was, look what they did to Memphis and SMU in the NIT bracket. They either made sure that only one of us would reach the FF, or they just were so lazy they didn't care. But you can bet they consciously put Ole Miss and Miss. St. in different quadrants. I'll admit they had Houston and Hitachi on opposite sides, but I am a conspiracy theorist, and I think they will keep a brotha down if they can.

They did the same thing with Western Kentucky and Louisiana Tech from CUSA, they met in the second round.
03-31-2021 12:41 AM
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goodknightfl Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
(03-29-2021 10:38 PM)Bathtub Gin Wrote:  Sweet, that will pay for a few new jacuzzis for the practice facility WITH plasma screen TVs. It may even have DVR capability, love bein in the money

Should be spent on recruiting hookers.
04-13-2021 09:05 AM
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NTXCoog Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
(03-30-2021 05:14 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  I will wait for your examples of football only division one schools. I mean we have basketball, wrestling, baseball, and hockey division 1 only. There has to be a football one right, I mean it's a gold mine right 07-coffee3

You wont find any. If for no other reason, NCAA requires any school that has FBS football must sponsor at least 16 sports with at least 6 all male or mixed teams and at least 8 all female teams. NCAA bylaw 20.9.9.1.

That's why you kept hearing of athletic departments cutting programs to the minimum number of teams required to stay at the FBS level
04-13-2021 07:22 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Will the AAC get a decent payout
Cicny makes the Peach Bowl and Houston makes the FF...that's good money right there! thx y'all
04-13-2021 08:18 PM
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