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Buho00 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-30-2021 10:12 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 10:08 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 09:38 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 08:29 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  
(03-29-2021 06:35 PM)Buho00 Wrote:  No brainer to at minimum recruit him as a PWO, being son of one of the top NFL Owls ever.

PWO is a slap in the face to this kid's ability level coming from Rice. But yet again...Rice has a kid IN THE CITY that has strong Rice connections and they aren't on him now. either 1. they feel he isn't going to come because he is going to get offered by stronger programs or 2. they don't feel he can help them, regardless of his ability. Either way their outta their minds. Rice is insane I swear. I mean some of the "mistakes" we make are fully self inflicted. We hold ourselves back through dumb moves. Based off our most recent records they need to get the best pure athletes they can get so they can if nothing else compete athletically with other teams. they so worried about scheme they missing out on kids that do things you can't teach and have nothing to do with scheme.

Like another mistake they have made, imo, i get a call the other day asking me to purchase tickets to come to a game. i told the young man straight up, i have a son that will be a sr and is getting recruited so i'm not buying any tickets because we will be going to games of the schools that are recruiting him. by simply recruiting my son(who is one of the best wrs in the state) you get tickets sold. like i said, rice messing up big time. and even further as my son goes to another school i won't be buying tickets for his whole career and i have a younger son(who's one of the best freshmen rbs in the area) so as he goes to school we won't be buying tickets then either. after they are out of college, ask yourself why would i support my school when they had two top tier athletes and didn't even try to recruit them? loyalty matters, they want ours(alumni), but where is theirs(the school)?

this thing isn't hard but they make it so. good luck to them......

Just want to point out he said "at a minimum", which I think is a reasonable limitation.

i thoroughly disagree...the "at a minimum" should be a full ride. PWO isn't reasonable at all. we will have to agree to disagree...which i'm cool with.

I really have no dog in this hunt. But I think what is reasonable would have to decided on a case by case basis, which is what we have coaches for.

I hope your sons are five stars, and I hope they come to Rice on full scholys.

I can see how a PWO offer could be a slap in the face to the Emanuel family, but would it be a bigger slap to not offer him at all? Not sure. I just want him recruited. No P5 or G5 offers currently. I'm not evaluating him or saying he's not worthy of a full offer on his own merits as a prospect. Seems to have the measurable and genes to help us. I'm sure things will pick up for Bert Jr., Rice should be in the thick of things already.

And make no mistake, we need help at QB. My concern, and could be related to how Bert Jr is recruited, is this staff has a poor track record at QB. No eye for talent. Prioritizing the wrong things for a college QB. It's like they want the closest to an NFL pocket passer, even if it causes turnovers and lack of points. We end up looking like a Rex Ryan NY Jets offense in college, at best. Bloomgren has failed at developing QB's, and the transfers have not been impressive with Collins being the exception. But it's at least one new transfer every year who is brought in to be our starting QB and we're not talking proven starters but lower division starters or part time guys, no faith in developing what we have and no attempt to adapt the scheme.

See At The Roost's latest report. It's concerning re: QB development. Apparently the staff has failed in developing a 6'3 dual-threat that Bloomgren once said has a "howitzer for an arm" and may be going with our 3rd or 4th stringer as the #1 now, despite poor results in the past. Feels like we're going backwards. Does not inspire any confidence, I fear the new OC is in for a rude awakening.
03-30-2021 11:20 AM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-30-2021 10:28 AM)mrbig Wrote:  I would be happy to see this guy throwing TD's to this guy. Is that too much to ask for as a Rice fan?

Bert Jr. runs a 4.5 40-yd dash with a 36" vert, very nice!

lol.....
03-30-2021 12:25 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-30-2021 09:26 AM)mrbig Wrote:  It really shouldn't matter. If he is the son of a Rice alum (male or female), particularly an alum who was a student-athlete at Rice, Rice would be nuts to not at least go through the recruiting process. Even if they ultimately do not make an offer, you know the kid grew up hearing about Rice and has probably been to some events on campus and likely has some positive connections and connotations. More of a leg up then calling Joe Blow at the next school over who is the same talent level but has no Rice connection.


Couldn't possibly agree more.

We offer scholarships to ALL SORTS of kids that we probably don't think we will get. That's not just smart, but its stupid NOT to. If every kid we offer accepts our offer, we need to raise the bar. It's not exactly the same, but if the quality of a University is even remotely determined by those they reject, why wouldn't that also be true for athletics? Have your name in the conversation, even if you end up getting dropped. It makes recruits ask 'what's going on over there'.

Hint... Great players often have 'friends' (or in this case, siblings) that are also great players, sometimes under-recruited. If you get one, you might get them both.

Jarrett Dillard's brother saw lots of playing time at Rice. While he wasn't the player Jarrett was, he was STILL one of our best RBs.

Here is how I see it...
If the child (or niece or nephew or cousin) of a Rice grad is getting multiple p5 offers, WE should almost always be offering as well. Hell, if the kids neighbor is a RIce grad, I'd be recruiting him/her. Put the offer on the list... ask for an early commit. Seriously, do we think UT or any top p5 program would 'back off' on a kid they really wanted just because he were a child of a Rice alum who gave an early commitment?? They might LOVE it because that MIGHT clear the deck of the chaff. Do we expect to get that kid?? Of course not... but we're going to get more p5 recruits from that pool than we will from any other... AND we're going to get infinitely more of them than those we DON'T offer.

If the kid and his family qualifies for significant or even full financial aid, I can see asking them to be a PWO (so as not to tie up a scholarship offer if the person perhaps didn't really want to attend). Heck, I might even suggest that myself (as a former walk-on, if my kids were athletic).... or yes... ask them as a courtesy to keep us on the list, even if they knew already they would accept at UT. As them for the courtesy of having our hat on the table when they video their decision.

If the kid is more of a 'maybe', then again, PWO (or scholarship if it is available) makes a lot of sense. Recruit him and at least 'have the talk'.

The fact that some of our best players of the past 20-30 years have kids who are being recruited as D-1 athletes and we aren't even calling them is APPALLING.

AT LEAST have the courtesy of telling the parents, we would LOVE to have your child, but we just don't think he's a fit for our system... or we don't have a schollie available.... but we'd love to have a 'family member' on the team and would love to help connect them to see if they qualify for other aid. LEVERAGE RIce's endowment for a qualified student and alumni family.

THIS is where athletics IMO fails. It values the coach(es) and what THEIR vision is rather than the University. The (qualifying, or at least very close/subjective) child of an alum is the way you create legacies and the sort of endowments that lead to people leaving family fortunes to a University... to endow buildings or ballparks... or scholarships.

What does it say that we're asking our athletic alumni to endow athletic scholarships to give funds and opportunities to (qualified) kids, but we don't have any funds nor opportunity to offer their (qualified) children?? That is just RIDICULOUS.

In the case of these two specific kids, there is NO DOUBT that they are AT LEAST as good as half the guys on our current roster (meaning by an objective analysis, they are qualified) .... and IMO, would both likely be absolute STARS (more subjective).
(This post was last modified: 03-30-2021 12:55 PM by Hambone10.)
03-30-2021 12:50 PM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-30-2021 12:50 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 09:26 AM)mrbig Wrote:  It really shouldn't matter. If he is the son of a Rice alum (male or female), particularly an alum who was a student-athlete at Rice, Rice would be nuts to not at least go through the recruiting process. Even if they ultimately do not make an offer, you know the kid grew up hearing about Rice and has probably been to some events on campus and likely has some positive connections and connotations. More of a leg up then calling Joe Blow at the next school over who is the same talent level but has no Rice connection.


Couldn't possibly agree more.

We offer scholarships to ALL SORTS of kids that we probably don't think we will get. That's not just smart, but its stupid NOT to. If every kid we offer accepts our offer, we need to raise the bar. It's not exactly the same, but if the quality of a University is even remotely determined by those they reject, why wouldn't that also be true for athletics? Have your name in the conversation, even if you end up getting dropped. It makes recruits ask 'what's going on over there'.

Hint... Great players often have 'friends' (or in this case, siblings) that are also great players, sometimes under-recruited. If you get one, you might get them both.

Jarrett Dillard's brother saw lots of playing time at Rice. While he wasn't the player Jarrett was, he was STILL one of our best RBs.

Here is how I see it...
If the child (or niece or nephew or cousin) of a Rice grad is getting multiple p5 offers, WE should almost always be offering as well. Hell, if the kids neighbor is a RIce grad, I'd be recruiting him/her. Put the offer on the list... ask for an early commit. Seriously, do we think UT or any top p5 program would 'back off' on a kid they really wanted just because he were a child of a Rice alum who gave an early commitment?? They might LOVE it because that MIGHT clear the deck of the chaff. Do we expect to get that kid?? Of course not... but we're going to get more p5 recruits from that pool than we will from any other... AND we're going to get infinitely more of them than those we DON'T offer.

If the kid and his family qualifies for significant or even full financial aid, I can see asking them to be a PWO (so as not to tie up a scholarship offer if the person perhaps didn't really want to attend). Heck, I might even suggest that myself (as a former walk-on, if my kids were athletic).... or yes... ask them as a courtesy to keep us on the list, even if they knew already they would accept at UT. As them for the courtesy of having our hat on the table when they video their decision.

If the kid is more of a 'maybe', then again, PWO (or scholarship if it is available) makes a lot of sense. Recruit him and at least 'have the talk'.

The fact that some of our best players of the past 20-30 years have kids who are being recruited as D-1 athletes and we aren't even calling them is APPALLING.

AT LEAST have the courtesy of telling the parents, we would LOVE to have your child, but we just don't think he's a fit for our system... or we don't have a schollie available.... but we'd love to have a 'family member' on the team and would love to help connect them to see if they qualify for other aid. LEVERAGE RIce's endowment for a qualified student and alumni family.

THIS is where athletics IMO fails. It values the coach(es) and what THEIR vision is rather than the University. The (qualifying, or at least very close/subjective) child of an alum is the way you create legacies and the sort of endowments that lead to people leaving family fortunes to a University... to endow buildings or ballparks... or scholarships.

What does it say that we're asking our athletic alumni to endow athletic scholarships to give funds and opportunities to (qualified) kids, but we don't have any funds nor opportunity to offer their (qualified) children?? That is just RIDICULOUS.

In the case of these two specific kids, there is NO DOUBT that they are AT LEAST as good as half the guys on our current roster (meaning by an objective analysis, they are qualified) .... and IMO, would both likely be absolute STARS (more subjective).

you have pretty much embodied my thinking here. which is why i say rice is insane right now. simply put i know for a fact that my son is at worst as good as every wr on the roster right now. they don't feel he is worth recruiting at this point but you call me to give MY money for YOU to fund SOMEONE ELSES scholarship....lolol. yeah sorry but no. now if my kid wasn't very good at sports then my stance would be vastly different, but as is right now either one of my boys would be able to help this team. again not upset but loyalty matters....you want mine but you do not display none....doesn't work for me....at all.
03-30-2021 01:35 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-30-2021 01:35 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  you have pretty much embodied my thinking here. which is why i say rice is insane right now. simply put i know for a fact that my son is at worst as good as every wr on the roster right now. they don't feel he is worth recruiting at this point but you call me to give MY money for YOU to fund SOMEONE ELSES scholarship....lolol. yeah sorry but no. now if my kid wasn't very good at sports then my stance would be vastly different, but as is right now either one of my boys would be able to help this team. again not upset but loyalty matters....you want mine but you do not display none....doesn't work for me....at all.

I really hope someone in the department sees this... I don't know what they can do at this point that wouldn't come across poorly, but I think failing to even ACKNOWLEDGE it would be even worse. I'll add a little more to the level of 'faux pas' represented here....

Forgive my memory, I'm old now.... You're a Rice Grad... 3-4 yr letterman... 4 or 5A Texas high school football coach and teacher, aren't you?
03-30-2021 03:52 PM
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Houston Owl 2 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Bert Jr.
This is not intended to be a criticism of any one person or coach, but this has been a real problem for years. I believe we didn't recruit a shortstop who ended up starting in the SEC. There is a son and daughter to two former Rice athletes, one who played at Oklahoma and the other who is a finalist for NCAA Woman of the Year. Check out the libero at HBU...she the daughter of a Rice basketball player and a Rice baseball player and former assistant baseball coach.

From my point of view, Rice needs to establish a method to identify prospective athletes who are related to former Rice athletes..it doesn't seem to be a significant problem to solve.
03-30-2021 04:06 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Bert Jr.
I thought these 2 posts were so concise and salient that I just wanted to highlight them because it really captures my sentiments on the topic. Rice is a small school that is unique in a lot of ways. In terms of the prospect of athletic success, that is really bad in a lot of ways but really good in a few ways. One of the reasons it can be really good is that I think alums who valued their experience at Rice probably value it more than alums at a lot of other universities, especially the big state schools. I mean if you played football at Kentucky and are now living in Houston and your kid is a stud football player, I think the parents and family might value the SEC experience more than the Kentucky-specific experience. I think for most people, the opposite is true at Rice.

(03-30-2021 04:06 PM)Houston Owl 2 Wrote:  This is not intended to be a criticism of any one person or coach, but this has been a real problem for years. I believe we didn't recruit a shortstop who ended up starting in the SEC. There is a son and daughter to two former Rice athletes, one who played at Oklahoma and the other who is a finalist for NCAA Woman of the Year. Check out the libero at HBU...she the daughter of a Rice basketball player and a Rice baseball player and former assistant baseball coach.

From my point of view, Rice needs to establish a method to identify prospective athletes who are related to former Rice athletes..it doesn't seem to be a significant problem to solve.

(03-30-2021 12:50 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  THIS is where athletics IMO fails. It values the coach(es) and what THEIR vision is rather than the University. The (qualifying, or at least very close/subjective) child of an alum is the way you create legacies and the sort of endowments that lead to people leaving family fortunes to a University... to endow buildings or ballparks... or scholarships.

What does it say that we're asking our athletic alumni to endow athletic scholarships to give funds and opportunities to (qualified) kids, but we don't have any funds nor opportunity to offer their (qualified) children?? That is just RIDICULOUS.
03-30-2021 04:18 PM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-30-2021 03:52 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 01:35 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  you have pretty much embodied my thinking here. which is why i say rice is insane right now. simply put i know for a fact that my son is at worst as good as every wr on the roster right now. they don't feel he is worth recruiting at this point but you call me to give MY money for YOU to fund SOMEONE ELSES scholarship....lolol. yeah sorry but no. now if my kid wasn't very good at sports then my stance would be vastly different, but as is right now either one of my boys would be able to help this team. again not upset but loyalty matters....you want mine but you do not display none....doesn't work for me....at all.

I really hope someone in the department sees this... I don't know what they can do at this point that wouldn't come across poorly, but I think failing to even ACKNOWLEDGE it would be even worse. I'll add a little more to the level of 'faux pas' represented here....

Forgive my memory, I'm old now.... You're a Rice Grad... 3-4 yr letterman... 4 or 5A Texas high school football coach and teacher, aren't you?

Yes I was a 4yr letterman, played as a true freshman. My wife ran track and won 4 conf titles(2 indoor and 2 outdoor). I was a coach at 3 different 6A high schools. I actually sent 3 dbs to rice that I coached. And routinely identified players early and called emailed talked to coaches about players they should recruit before other schools found out about them. I always tried to help rice football. I only teach now. I wish them nothing but the best.
03-30-2021 05:39 PM
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owl at the moon Offline
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Post: #29
Bert Jr.
I sure hope we recruit them both.
Loyalty matters and I sure hope Rice figures it out, like yesterday.

I also still remember nightowl24jr’s post on here some years back. :)

Great kid and I will cheer for whatever team he goes to play for.
03-30-2021 11:05 PM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-30-2021 11:05 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  I sure hope we recruit them both.
Loyalty matters and I sure hope Rice figures it out, like yesterday.

I also still remember nightowl24jr’s post on here some years back. :)

Great kid and I will cheer for whatever team he goes to play for.

I appreciate the support, truly do.

My son had never posted on here. I monitor is social media and I keep him off boards like this. Don't need him responding emotionally and something going out that he can't take back.
03-30-2021 11:40 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-30-2021 01:35 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 12:50 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 09:26 AM)mrbig Wrote:  It really shouldn't matter. If he is the son of a Rice alum (male or female), particularly an alum who was a student-athlete at Rice, Rice would be nuts to not at least go through the recruiting process. Even if they ultimately do not make an offer, you know the kid grew up hearing about Rice and has probably been to some events on campus and likely has some positive connections and connotations. More of a leg up then calling Joe Blow at the next school over who is the same talent level but has no Rice connection.


Couldn't possibly agree more.

We offer scholarships to ALL SORTS of kids that we probably don't think we will get. That's not just smart, but its stupid NOT to. If every kid we offer accepts our offer, we need to raise the bar. It's not exactly the same, but if the quality of a University is even remotely determined by those they reject, why wouldn't that also be true for athletics? Have your name in the conversation, even if you end up getting dropped. It makes recruits ask 'what's going on over there'.

Hint... Great players often have 'friends' (or in this case, siblings) that are also great players, sometimes under-recruited. If you get one, you might get them both.

Jarrett Dillard's brother saw lots of playing time at Rice. While he wasn't the player Jarrett was, he was STILL one of our best RBs.

Here is how I see it...
If the child (or niece or nephew or cousin) of a Rice grad is getting multiple p5 offers, WE should almost always be offering as well. Hell, if the kids neighbor is a RIce grad, I'd be recruiting him/her. Put the offer on the list... ask for an early commit. Seriously, do we think UT or any top p5 program would 'back off' on a kid they really wanted just because he were a child of a Rice alum who gave an early commitment?? They might LOVE it because that MIGHT clear the deck of the chaff. Do we expect to get that kid?? Of course not... but we're going to get more p5 recruits from that pool than we will from any other... AND we're going to get infinitely more of them than those we DON'T offer.

If the kid and his family qualifies for significant or even full financial aid, I can see asking them to be a PWO (so as not to tie up a scholarship offer if the person perhaps didn't really want to attend). Heck, I might even suggest that myself (as a former walk-on, if my kids were athletic).... or yes... ask them as a courtesy to keep us on the list, even if they knew already they would accept at UT. As them for the courtesy of having our hat on the table when they video their decision.

If the kid is more of a 'maybe', then again, PWO (or scholarship if it is available) makes a lot of sense. Recruit him and at least 'have the talk'.

The fact that some of our best players of the past 20-30 years have kids who are being recruited as D-1 athletes and we aren't even calling them is APPALLING.

AT LEAST have the courtesy of telling the parents, we would LOVE to have your child, but we just don't think he's a fit for our system... or we don't have a schollie available.... but we'd love to have a 'family member' on the team and would love to help connect them to see if they qualify for other aid. LEVERAGE RIce's endowment for a qualified student and alumni family.

THIS is where athletics IMO fails. It values the coach(es) and what THEIR vision is rather than the University. The (qualifying, or at least very close/subjective) child of an alum is the way you create legacies and the sort of endowments that lead to people leaving family fortunes to a University... to endow buildings or ballparks... or scholarships.

What does it say that we're asking our athletic alumni to endow athletic scholarships to give funds and opportunities to (qualified) kids, but we don't have any funds nor opportunity to offer their (qualified) children?? That is just RIDICULOUS.

In the case of these two specific kids, there is NO DOUBT that they are AT LEAST as good as half the guys on our current roster (meaning by an objective analysis, they are qualified) .... and IMO, would both likely be absolute STARS (more subjective).

you have pretty much embodied my thinking here. which is why i say rice is insane right now. simply put i know for a fact that my son is at worst as good as every wr on the roster right now. they don't feel he is worth recruiting at this point but you call me to give MY money for YOU to fund SOMEONE ELSES scholarship....lolol. yeah sorry but no. now if my kid wasn't very good at sports then my stance would be vastly different, but as is right now either one of my boys would be able to help this team. again not upset but loyalty matters....you want mine but you do not display none....doesn't work for me....at all.

Rice thought enough of you to give you a full scholarship and play you immediately as a true freshman. That's all that really matters. I would hope that that would be enough to get you to continue giving to and supporting the university. Try not to take it personal that these coaches aren't giving your son the attention that he deserve. They're from California and they recruit nationally now. Rice gave you a great education and college experience. Keep that in the forefront. Like you said, in the end, it's no skin off your back.
03-31-2021 12:22 AM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-31-2021 12:22 AM)Ourland Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 01:35 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 12:50 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 09:26 AM)mrbig Wrote:  It really shouldn't matter. If he is the son of a Rice alum (male or female), particularly an alum who was a student-athlete at Rice, Rice would be nuts to not at least go through the recruiting process. Even if they ultimately do not make an offer, you know the kid grew up hearing about Rice and has probably been to some events on campus and likely has some positive connections and connotations. More of a leg up then calling Joe Blow at the next school over who is the same talent level but has no Rice connection.


Couldn't possibly agree more.

We offer scholarships to ALL SORTS of kids that we probably don't think we will get. That's not just smart, but its stupid NOT to. If every kid we offer accepts our offer, we need to raise the bar. It's not exactly the same, but if the quality of a University is even remotely determined by those they reject, why wouldn't that also be true for athletics? Have your name in the conversation, even if you end up getting dropped. It makes recruits ask 'what's going on over there'.

Hint... Great players often have 'friends' (or in this case, siblings) that are also great players, sometimes under-recruited. If you get one, you might get them both.

Jarrett Dillard's brother saw lots of playing time at Rice. While he wasn't the player Jarrett was, he was STILL one of our best RBs.

Here is how I see it...
If the child (or niece or nephew or cousin) of a Rice grad is getting multiple p5 offers, WE should almost always be offering as well. Hell, if the kids neighbor is a RIce grad, I'd be recruiting him/her. Put the offer on the list... ask for an early commit. Seriously, do we think UT or any top p5 program would 'back off' on a kid they really wanted just because he were a child of a Rice alum who gave an early commitment?? They might LOVE it because that MIGHT clear the deck of the chaff. Do we expect to get that kid?? Of course not... but we're going to get more p5 recruits from that pool than we will from any other... AND we're going to get infinitely more of them than those we DON'T offer.

If the kid and his family qualifies for significant or even full financial aid, I can see asking them to be a PWO (so as not to tie up a scholarship offer if the person perhaps didn't really want to attend). Heck, I might even suggest that myself (as a former walk-on, if my kids were athletic).... or yes... ask them as a courtesy to keep us on the list, even if they knew already they would accept at UT. As them for the courtesy of having our hat on the table when they video their decision.

If the kid is more of a 'maybe', then again, PWO (or scholarship if it is available) makes a lot of sense. Recruit him and at least 'have the talk'.

The fact that some of our best players of the past 20-30 years have kids who are being recruited as D-1 athletes and we aren't even calling them is APPALLING.

AT LEAST have the courtesy of telling the parents, we would LOVE to have your child, but we just don't think he's a fit for our system... or we don't have a schollie available.... but we'd love to have a 'family member' on the team and would love to help connect them to see if they qualify for other aid. LEVERAGE RIce's endowment for a qualified student and alumni family.

THIS is where athletics IMO fails. It values the coach(es) and what THEIR vision is rather than the University. The (qualifying, or at least very close/subjective) child of an alum is the way you create legacies and the sort of endowments that lead to people leaving family fortunes to a University... to endow buildings or ballparks... or scholarships.

What does it say that we're asking our athletic alumni to endow athletic scholarships to give funds and opportunities to (qualified) kids, but we don't have any funds nor opportunity to offer their (qualified) children?? That is just RIDICULOUS.

In the case of these two specific kids, there is NO DOUBT that they are AT LEAST as good as half the guys on our current roster (meaning by an objective analysis, they are qualified) .... and IMO, would both likely be absolute STARS (more subjective).

you have pretty much embodied my thinking here. which is why i say rice is insane right now. simply put i know for a fact that my son is at worst as good as every wr on the roster right now. they don't feel he is worth recruiting at this point but you call me to give MY money for YOU to fund SOMEONE ELSES scholarship....lolol. yeah sorry but no. now if my kid wasn't very good at sports then my stance would be vastly different, but as is right now either one of my boys would be able to help this team. again not upset but loyalty matters....you want mine but you do not display none....doesn't work for me....at all.

Rice thought enough of you to give you a full scholarship and play you immediately as a true freshman. That's all that really matters. I would hope that that would be enough to get you to continue giving to and supporting the university. Try not to take it personal that these coaches aren't giving your son the attention that he deserve. They're from California and they recruit nationally now. Rice gave you a great education and college experience. Keep that in the forefront. Like you said, in the end, it's no skin off your back.

1. Rice didn't give me NOTHING. I EARNED it. I CHOSE rice, rice didn't choose me. Rice didn't think enough of me to play me early, I was GOOD ENOUGH to play early...I PROVED and EARNED that distinction. I could've went to any school west of the Mississippi River. I had offers to almost all of them. So you can miss me with the I should just be grateful that rice allowed me to step foot on their campus.

2. I've stated it already I'm not upset with this staff as a parent. I let it be known that my malcontent comes from being an alumni, so again this isn't personal. This is about terrible recruiting practices which is leading to us getting pounded week in and week out.

3. I could careless where they're from. Currently my son is being recruited by several out of state P5s and a small group of out of state G5s. As i stated before my son right now as a jr is as good as anyone they have on roster. So for you to elude that because their pool is bigger now(which is very false cause while I was there we had people as far west as cali and far east as fla.. so you have no point) my son isn't good enough is highly false. If that wasn't the point and it's he was lost in the shuffle. Again that is a problem because alumni's outstanding kids should be at the forefront of recruiting because you have a better chance of getting them.

4. As I stated because I graduated from there doesn't mean I'm giving them my money. I could've went anywhere in Texas and surrounding states, I was the commodity not the other way around and when you and others that think like you get that you'll actually see more involvement from athletic alumni. I'm not giving my money to fund someone else's education when I know my son is just as good as what they have and what they are recruiting. Sorry but no. As I stated you and them want me to be loyal to the school.... where is the loyalty to me? Trust me I gave up more going there than rice did by letting me go there. And I helped rice as much as rice helped me.

You are correct its no skin off my back if they don't recruit him... but it's money out of my pocket. That money will go to something that is more in line with my family.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2021 09:53 AM by nightowl24.)
03-31-2021 06:34 AM
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Ricefootballnet Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-31-2021 12:22 AM)Ourland Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 01:35 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 12:50 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-30-2021 09:26 AM)mrbig Wrote:  It really shouldn't matter. If he is the son of a Rice alum (male or female), particularly an alum who was a student-athlete at Rice, Rice would be nuts to not at least go through the recruiting process. Even if they ultimately do not make an offer, you know the kid grew up hearing about Rice and has probably been to some events on campus and likely has some positive connections and connotations. More of a leg up then calling Joe Blow at the next school over who is the same talent level but has no Rice connection.


Couldn't possibly agree more.

We offer scholarships to ALL SORTS of kids that we probably don't think we will get. That's not just smart, but its stupid NOT to. If every kid we offer accepts our offer, we need to raise the bar. It's not exactly the same, but if the quality of a University is even remotely determined by those they reject, why wouldn't that also be true for athletics? Have your name in the conversation, even if you end up getting dropped. It makes recruits ask 'what's going on over there'.

Hint... Great players often have 'friends' (or in this case, siblings) that are also great players, sometimes under-recruited. If you get one, you might get them both.

Jarrett Dillard's brother saw lots of playing time at Rice. While he wasn't the player Jarrett was, he was STILL one of our best RBs.

Here is how I see it...
If the child (or niece or nephew or cousin) of a Rice grad is getting multiple p5 offers, WE should almost always be offering as well. Hell, if the kids neighbor is a RIce grad, I'd be recruiting him/her. Put the offer on the list... ask for an early commit. Seriously, do we think UT or any top p5 program would 'back off' on a kid they really wanted just because he were a child of a Rice alum who gave an early commitment?? They might LOVE it because that MIGHT clear the deck of the chaff. Do we expect to get that kid?? Of course not... but we're going to get more p5 recruits from that pool than we will from any other... AND we're going to get infinitely more of them than those we DON'T offer.

If the kid and his family qualifies for significant or even full financial aid, I can see asking them to be a PWO (so as not to tie up a scholarship offer if the person perhaps didn't really want to attend). Heck, I might even suggest that myself (as a former walk-on, if my kids were athletic).... or yes... ask them as a courtesy to keep us on the list, even if they knew already they would accept at UT. As them for the courtesy of having our hat on the table when they video their decision.

If the kid is more of a 'maybe', then again, PWO (or scholarship if it is available) makes a lot of sense. Recruit him and at least 'have the talk'.

The fact that some of our best players of the past 20-30 years have kids who are being recruited as D-1 athletes and we aren't even calling them is APPALLING.

AT LEAST have the courtesy of telling the parents, we would LOVE to have your child, but we just don't think he's a fit for our system... or we don't have a schollie available.... but we'd love to have a 'family member' on the team and would love to help connect them to see if they qualify for other aid. LEVERAGE RIce's endowment for a qualified student and alumni family.

THIS is where athletics IMO fails. It values the coach(es) and what THEIR vision is rather than the University. The (qualifying, or at least very close/subjective) child of an alum is the way you create legacies and the sort of endowments that lead to people leaving family fortunes to a University... to endow buildings or ballparks... or scholarships.

What does it say that we're asking our athletic alumni to endow athletic scholarships to give funds and opportunities to (qualified) kids, but we don't have any funds nor opportunity to offer their (qualified) children?? That is just RIDICULOUS.

In the case of these two specific kids, there is NO DOUBT that they are AT LEAST as good as half the guys on our current roster (meaning by an objective analysis, they are qualified) .... and IMO, would both likely be absolute STARS (more subjective).

you have pretty much embodied my thinking here. which is why i say rice is insane right now. simply put i know for a fact that my son is at worst as good as every wr on the roster right now. they don't feel he is worth recruiting at this point but you call me to give MY money for YOU to fund SOMEONE ELSES scholarship....lolol. yeah sorry but no. now if my kid wasn't very good at sports then my stance would be vastly different, but as is right now either one of my boys would be able to help this team. again not upset but loyalty matters....you want mine but you do not display none....doesn't work for me....at all.

Rice thought enough of you to give you a full scholarship and play you immediately as a true freshman. That's all that really matters. I would hope that that would be enough to get you to continue giving to and supporting the university. Try not to take it personal that these coaches aren't giving your son the attention that he deserve. They're from California and they recruit nationally now. Rice gave you a great education and college experience. Keep that in the forefront. Like you said, in the end, it's no skin off your back.

Disagree. Since the onset of tuition in the 60s, Rice continually has treated Legacies like dirt. Has given absolutely no benefit to applicants who have family history with the institution. I know right offhand of at least three classmates, close friends, whose families had made significant financial contributions, and who had fully qualified, statistically eligible children who were denied admission. I suspect there have been many more.

It’s been some time ago, but I can remember reading an article that said 93 per cent of Harvard admittees had at least some familial connection with the institution. I suppose that is ancient history now, but it does address the fact that the Ivies consistently have emphasized attention to Legacies.

When it comes to the fully qualified children of our student athletes, the problem is that much more magnified. There’ve been several mentions here of prior omissions and missteps. I remember I was stunned when my old Lovett classmate, Philip Wood, saw his son given a football scholarship here. Remember talking to Philip in the R Room about how that was such an outlier.

What is to be done? I get the distinct impression that our administration, athletics administration, and coaching staff completely dismiss any alumni or former student athlete exhortations to address issues discussed here. Any suggestions are automatically dismissed. I guess we peasants just don’t know our place.

BTW i suspect if you knew the individual you address, as to the contributions made and value added he’s given to Rice in various ways ever since the day he first walked on campus, you would not have reached the same conclusion. No offense.
03-31-2021 07:18 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-31-2021 07:18 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  What is to be done? I get the distinct impression that our administration, athletics administration, and coaching staff completely dismiss any alumni or former student athlete exhortations to address issues discussed here. Any suggestions are automatically dismissed. I guess we peasants just don’t know our place.

RFN, I agree 100% and I think it is an incredibly stupid approach. Friends in fund-raising positions have told me that it is a significant impediment to them (why should I give money to a school that won't admit my son/daughter?). And you are absolutely right about the Ivies and legacies. If Rice really wants to be the Texas Ivy, this is one thing they should look at seriously.

My son did get in as a double legacy. During the Goldsmith/Hatfield/Thompson/Wilson days we went to a lot of road games with the team, and at the inevitable alumni functions, he was always cozying up to Dick Stabell. We joked that he was putting on his full-court press.

I know of one athletic legacy who didn't get a ripple from Rice. So he went to Navy and came back here as a starter for them, on a team that beat Rice 59-14.

Quote:BTW I suspect if you knew the individual you address, as to the contributions made and value added he’s given to Rice in various ways ever since the day he first walked on campus, you would not have reached the same conclusion. No offense.

Absolutely 100%, and same for his wife and the mother of those two student-athletes.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2021 08:58 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
03-31-2021 08:36 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-31-2021 06:34 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  I'm not giving my money to fund someone else's education when I know my son is just as good as what they have and what they are recruiting. Sorry but no. As I stated you and them want me to be loyal to the school.... where is the loyalty to me?

This sounds like a variation of the theme so prevalent in the Bailiff years of "why should we contribute money when we are unhappy with the direction of the team"? Back then we were told not to contribute to the Owl Club or come to games until the AD noticed the lack of support and fired Bailiff. I guess now we can just substitute Bloomgren.

Of course this is more personal. I think NO has a perfectly legitimate gripe, and so do the rest of us if the resources of athletic alumni are ignored. If the recruiters are ignoring top notch sons and daughters of alumni, that is inexcusable.
03-31-2021 08:51 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-31-2021 08:36 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(03-31-2021 07:18 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  What is to be done? I get the distinct impression that our administration, athletics administration, and coaching staff completely dismiss any alumni or former student athlete exhortations to address issues discussed here. Any suggestions are automatically dismissed. I guess we peasants just don’t know our place.

RFN, I agree 100% and I think it is an incredibly stupid approach. Friends in fund-raising positions have told me that it is a significant impediment to them (why should I give money to a school that won't admit my son/daughter?). And you are absolutely right about the Ivies and legacies. If Rice really wants to be the Texas Ivy, this is one thing they should look at seriously.

I think legacies who are otherwise qualified academically should be admitted. A preference but not a priority. A foot in the door but not a leg up. I was talking to some older alums in New Orleans a few years back who came to an alumni event. Both Rice alums, both their kids were high school valedictorians with great test scores. But were denied by Rice and both went to Northwestern. The parents still love Rice, but admitted they give more to Northwestern now. Rice's approach is kind of nuts. I knew some legacies at Rice, but the number of otherwise qualified legacies getting turned away seems nuts. Even more true with athletes.

To be fair to some of the Rice coaches, I have a non-Rice friend who lives in the Houston metro area and his son plays baseball. He was getting recruiting interest from some of the Ivies and D2 programs. I reached out to the Rice coaching staff and they were very good about reaching out to my friend and his son to at least touch base and express some interest and to keep an eye on him. So I certainly can't fault the baseball coaching staff, as they seem like they will listen to alums about that kind of thing.
03-31-2021 10:00 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Bert Jr.
As Paul and Chip have posted above, the University's approach to legacy recruitment and admissions in general is beyond idiotic and incredibly counter-productive from a fundraising perspective. And it's not like we're only rejecting legacy candidates that are not qualified. I know a number of alum children who were rejected from Rice and accepted into Stanford or the Ivies.

It wasn't always this way. During the 1960's and '70s there were many, many legacy students on campus, particularly those with sibling students/alums. The change in philosophy came about in the late 1980's/early '90s.
03-31-2021 10:04 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-31-2021 10:00 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(03-31-2021 08:36 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(03-31-2021 07:18 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  What is to be done? I get the distinct impression that our administration, athletics administration, and coaching staff completely dismiss any alumni or former student athlete exhortations to address issues discussed here. Any suggestions are automatically dismissed. I guess we peasants just don’t know our place.

RFN, I agree 100% and I think it is an incredibly stupid approach. Friends in fund-raising positions have told me that it is a significant impediment to them (why should I give money to a school that won't admit my son/daughter?). And you are absolutely right about the Ivies and legacies. If Rice really wants to be the Texas Ivy, this is one thing they should look at seriously.

I think legacies who are otherwise qualified academically should be admitted. A preference but not a priority. A foot in the door but not a leg up.

My understanding is that Rice does exactly that already, but the number of legacy applicants is simply far FAR more than can be admitted, and so inevitably many get turned away.

(03-31-2021 10:00 AM)mrbig Wrote:  I was talking to some older alums in New Orleans a few years back who came to an alumni event. Both Rice alums, both their kids were high school valedictorians with great test scores. But were denied by Rice and both went to Northwestern. The parents still love Rice, but admitted they give more to Northwestern now. Rice's approach is kind of nuts. I knew some legacies at Rice, but the number of otherwise qualified legacies getting turned away seems nuts. Even more true with athletes.
But that's only because the number of qualified applicants of ALL TYPES who get turned away is nuts. Again, my understanding is that the proportion of legacies who get turned away is actually slightly lower than the proportion of non-legacies.

The root issue is simply that, while the odds are not exactly equal for everyone, they are still astronomical for everyone, which results in the vast majority of applicants (including the vast majority of legacy applicants) being turned down.
03-31-2021 10:40 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-31-2021 10:40 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(03-31-2021 10:00 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(03-31-2021 08:36 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(03-31-2021 07:18 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  What is to be done? I get the distinct impression that our administration, athletics administration, and coaching staff completely dismiss any alumni or former student athlete exhortations to address issues discussed here. Any suggestions are automatically dismissed. I guess we peasants just don’t know our place.

RFN, I agree 100% and I think it is an incredibly stupid approach. Friends in fund-raising positions have told me that it is a significant impediment to them (why should I give money to a school that won't admit my son/daughter?). And you are absolutely right about the Ivies and legacies. If Rice really wants to be the Texas Ivy, this is one thing they should look at seriously.

I think legacies who are otherwise qualified academically should be admitted. A preference but not a priority. A foot in the door but not a leg up.

My understanding is that Rice does exactly that already, but the number of legacy applicants is simply far FAR more than can be admitted, and so inevitably many get turned away.

(03-31-2021 10:00 AM)mrbig Wrote:  I was talking to some older alums in New Orleans a few years back who came to an alumni event. Both Rice alums, both their kids were high school valedictorians with great test scores. But were denied by Rice and both went to Northwestern. The parents still love Rice, but admitted they give more to Northwestern now. Rice's approach is kind of nuts. I knew some legacies at Rice, but the number of otherwise qualified legacies getting turned away seems nuts. Even more true with athletes.
But that's only because the number of qualified applicants of ALL TYPES who get turned away is nuts. Again, my understanding is that the proportion of legacies who get turned away is actually slightly lower than the proportion of non-legacies.

The root issue is simply that, while the odds are not exactly equal for everyone, they are still astronomical for everyone, which results in the vast majority of applicants (including the vast majority of legacy applicants) being turned down.

Thanks for the feedback!
03-31-2021 10:58 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Bert Jr.
(03-31-2021 10:40 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  But that's only because the number of qualified applicants of ALL TYPES who get turned away is nuts. Again, my understanding is that the proportion of legacies who get turned away is actually slightly lower than the proportion of non-legacies.

The root issue is simply that, while the odds are not exactly equal for everyone, they are still astronomical for everyone, which results in the vast majority of applicants (including the vast majority of legacy applicants) being turned down.

That somewhat explains why my kids, who weren't athletic... didn't get admitted (though my daughter DID get admitted to Tulane... bad fit)...

but Athletics has an express lane.... as I suggested, even as a PWO or just a nod and wink, we should be able to get this sort of kid admitted.

While the University may not have cared about my donations, my name IS on some rooms in Athletics. Had my kids been athletic like NO's or Bert's, ATHLETICS should care about their talent, their donations, their legacies and their support/referrals.
03-31-2021 12:49 PM
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