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2021-2022 Men's Basketball
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jumpinmullet Offline
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Post: #81
RE: 2021-2022 Men's Basketball
The CAA is a dead end road for UNCW and anybody who thinks it is not is living outside the realm of reality. It is like an old car that needs a ton of work and when you spend the money the car is still worthless . Sell the car and move on to something else.
UNCW basketball is a dumpster fire right now and I just don't see many takers for UNCW to move up or even sideways to the SoCon. Shopping for a conference should be the top priority right for UNCW athletics . UNCW can't be delusional about where things are right now if they want to find the right fit.
04-06-2021 02:49 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #82
RE: 2021-2022 Men's Basketball
(04-06-2021 02:49 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 01:04 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 12:40 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 11:27 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 08:24 AM)dan10 Wrote:  Dont disagree with the sentiment, but its also not based in reality. I think with the losses, we all knew this season would be one of the worst our conference put together. Add in the absurdities from the handling of the season by the league and that adds to the result. 15 and 16 seeds are not typical of this league, except in our worst years with major seeding upsets.

Since realignment in 2013:
16 seed- 2 times (2013 ,2021)
15 seed- 0 times
14 seed- 1 time (2015)
13 seed- 4 times (2014, 2016, 2018, 2019)
12 seed- 1 time (2017)

That means on average we have been a 13.75 since the top of the league left. Hardly close to a 15/16. Just saying.

I think we are all aware the CAA is a mesh of schools that dont particularly fit well, but it clearly does have potential (until the NCAA opens the floodgates on portal ie. free agency)


Right, but the norm going forward is likely going to be a 15/16 type conference like it was this season. Especially with so much talent getting poached via the transfer portal. Unless you see any teams in this league rising above that level any time soon.

I actually see the CAA on the rise. Promising new coaches at UNCW, JMU, ELON, CofC and William and Mary. Unfortunately, the southern schools haven't been pulling their weight lately, with NU and Hofstra being the best consistently over the past decade and Drexel taking the last CAA tournament. Towson continues to do well but just can't seem to meet their potential and Delaware is the same. But I see the southern schools getting back to where we were.
LOL if your definition of "promising" is 7-10 and losing more than half of the team to transfer...... i want some of what you are smoking. We HOPE that we as a team are trending up but have no proof yet that that is indeed the case. William and Mary also finished 7-10. You have made the case that COC is in worse shape than us, although they hired a coach with a good track record. JMU hired a good coach, but also one which you have said he's only good because of the POY he inherited. So which is it? Not to mention as others have said JMU is on the way out. Hell, they just cancelled another baseball series with us because they feel like it.
The league has been trending down for several years, and you are about the only one here who doesn't see that!


3. That's my opinion. Don't like it, get your own opinion....:-)
Don't worry, I have. And mine is based on the reality of where things are actually at, not where i think they could be in lala land.
04-06-2021 02:57 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #83
RE: 2021-2022 Men's Basketball
W&M’s administration quietly wants to move to D-II and yet the CAA is “on the rise”.

Laughable.
04-06-2021 03:17 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #84
RE: 2021-2022 Men's Basketball
(04-06-2021 02:49 PM)dan10 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 10:43 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 10:01 AM)dan10 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 09:55 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 09:04 AM)dan10 Wrote:  That goes to the point of what direction and footprint the CAA truly wants, right? . Not sure current leadership has even made that basic distinction. We have not even gotten beyond the point of being a leader and showing direction, we are still allowing the schools and all of their varying interests to drive the sinking ship. That needs addressed before you even get to your proposed step 1.They naturally overlap because those schools started in the AEast before saving the CAA at the time

Agreed. From the Northeastern POV, if UNCW and CoC leave, the conference could very easily add some members above DC and tighten the footprint up north.

Therein lies the core problem of stalemate between parties that don't want to be together.

The easiest solution would be for AEast to focus on the Northeastern footprint while CAA focuses on the MidAtlantic footprint.

Getting everyone to agree on that though would take leadership, which we do not have.

04-cheers Yup you get it. Until you break that important hurdle, everything else is just mental gymnastics.

Do you have a preferred solution from the Drexel perspective?

Unfortunately Drexel is part of the problem, not the solution. It will be interesting to see what a new AD will do and what direction they want us to go. That is very much to be seen. However Drexel was one of the few schools who truly used the FLO money to put games on locally. So to many of our fans, it has felt mostly like the old days since many home games have been on local tv broadcasts. With that said, this season had so few home games that it didnt matter.

I think the league needs to become truly focused. I dont think a league that supports basketball and half of a football league, while allowing non members to just play football will ever work. Once NU and HU dropped football, the CAA should have made a decision one way or another, instead they waffled and still let non full time members speak for full time members for decision-making. So if this league is going to have any hope of flourishing it needs to decide whether it wants football or not. I dont think it can work well having 1.5 of those sports.

If the league decides that basketball is the route I think it is in Drexel's best interest to stay and make it work, since we do not have very many peers that we align with as far as school demographics and academics. NU is one of the few that matches well. When the split happens, us and Delaware will split in different ways, despite the history. If the league does that I agree a south division and north division makes the most sense and is easily feasible. Replacing the football schools would not be that big of a task.

If the league focuses on football, Drexel obviously is an odd man out. If a new mid atlantic conference is not created then our only realistic choices would be to drop down to the Patriot League or back to the AEast.

The 3rd option would be for the league to try and keep current members together and get to divisions, but I think that would mean the league should drop football only schools unless you bring any of them on as a full time member and likely drop the autobid while still allowing the teams to play an abbreviated conference slate. The football schools would never go for this option.

The option I would want ideally would be a new conference to be created that focuses on academic driven research universities that are mostly private in the mid atlantic. Schools with a basketball focus. One that would likely be a mesh of CAA, AEast, Patriot, MAAC schools. Something like: Drexel, NU, Delaware, Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, maybe Rider, maybe HU, Binghamton, Colgate, Boston U, and maybe another like Fairleigh Dickinson or Navy if you can pull that off.

Thank you for the detailed response.

I personally don't think it has to be either/or for football and I believe at the FCS level there is no reason football and non football schools cannot work together.

For the CAA I believe the biggest thing that needs to happen is to pick a geographic direction. The 4 team core of the CAA is JMU, W&M, Towson and Delaware. When you look at the landscape of east coast FCS, those 4 schools make a lot of sense together and the geography isn't that bad. Throw in Drexel and UMBC, who should be added to the CAA, as non football basketball focused schools to partner with Delaware and Towson and you have a 6 schools with the maximum driving distance of 5 hours. That's a solid sensical division.

Those 6 schools then need to decide which direction they want to go. Do they want to create a northern division with Hofstra and Northeastern or do they want to create a southern division with Elon, UNCW, and CoC?

I think the easiest solution would be for Northeastern to go to the America East with its hockey rivals with the CAA taking UMBC and then Hofstra either joining the MAAC or the America East as well. Alternatively both Northeastern and Hoftsra joining the private school Patriot League would allow that league to have seasonal geographic divisons.

This would free up 2 to 4 slots in the CAA to add a Winthrop, UNCG, Campbell or whomever else they would want.

In my realistic perfect world I would like to see a 6 team Carolinas divison of
Elon
UNCG
Campbell
UNCW
Winthrop
CoC

The other half of the conference would be the MidAtlantic divison of
JMU
W&M
Towson
UMBC
Delaware
Drexel

This is a sensible geographic, basketball focused conference that protects the FCS football schools auto bid with 6 core members and Richmond & Villanova as a guaranteed 8 regardless of what the northern schools do. Every school has a travel partner. The farthest trip would be from Philly to Charleston.

Hoftsra and Northeastern would benefit being in basketball centric leagues in the same footprint.

The CAA is no better than the MAAC, AEast, or Patriot League, so I really don't understand why they would object
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2021 03:31 PM by solohawks.)
04-06-2021 03:18 PM
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Gary Miller Offline
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Post: #85
RE: 2021-2022 Men's Basketball
(04-06-2021 03:17 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  W&M’s administration quietly wants to move to D-II and yet the CAA is “on the rise”.

Laughable.

Really? They're doing some major renovations to Kaplan. That would be a shocking move to me.
04-06-2021 04:22 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #86
RE: 2021-2022 Men's Basketball
(04-06-2021 04:22 PM)Gary Miller Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 03:17 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  W&M’s administration quietly wants to move to D-II and yet the CAA is “on the rise”.

Laughable.

Really? They're doing some major renovations to Kaplan. That would be a shocking move to me.

Yes it would be a shocker. And I have no idea if the Athletic Department will ever go along with it. But its absolutely what the Administration would like to see happen. They don't care about athletics one iota and view it as a drain.

That's definitely one downside of having a lot of strong academic schools in the league. Just look at how UNCW was run under Chancellor DePaolo. When an administration of a strong academic school doesn't see the benefit of what athletics brings to the table, bad decisions tend to happen.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2021 05:36 PM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
04-06-2021 05:33 PM
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billthebighawksfan Offline
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Post: #87
RE: 2021-2022 Men's Basketball
Someone on WCU board was saying that Sanders was let go here (few days back??)or something like that. Is that true or just wrong information? I haven’t heard anything like that at all. They wanted him as their head coach.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2021 08:35 PM by billthebighawksfan.)
04-06-2021 08:33 PM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #88
RE: 2021-2022 Men's Basketball
(04-06-2021 03:18 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Thank you for the detailed response.

I personally don't think it has to be either/or for football and I believe at the FCS level there is no reason football and non football schools cannot work together.

For the CAA I believe the biggest thing that needs to happen is to pick a geographic direction. The 4 team core of the CAA is JMU, W&M, Towson and Delaware. When you look at the landscape of east coast FCS, those 4 schools make a lot of sense together and the geography isn't that bad. Throw in Drexel and UMBC, who should be added to the CAA, as non football basketball focused schools to partner with Delaware and Towson and you have a 6 schools with the maximum driving distance of 5 hours. That's a solid sensical division.

Those 6 schools then need to decide which direction they want to go. Do they want to create a northern division with Hofstra and Northeastern or do they want to create a southern division with Elon, UNCW, and CoC?

I think the easiest solution would be for Northeastern to go to the America East with its hockey rivals with the CAA taking UMBC and then Hofstra either joining the MAAC or the America East as well. Alternatively both Northeastern and Hoftsra joining the private school Patriot League would allow that league to have seasonal geographic divisons.

This would free up 2 to 4 slots in the CAA to add a Winthrop, UNCG, Campbell or whomever else they would want.

In my realistic perfect world I would like to see a 6 team Carolinas divison of
Elon
UNCG
Campbell
UNCW
Winthrop
CoC

The other half of the conference would be the MidAtlantic divison of
JMU
W&M
Towson
UMBC
Delaware
Drexel

This is a sensible geographic, basketball focused conference that protects the FCS football schools auto bid with 6 core members and Richmond & Villanova as a guaranteed 8 regardless of what the northern schools do. Every school has a travel partner. The farthest trip would be from Philly to Charleston.

Hoftsra and Northeastern would benefit being in basketball centric leagues in the same footprint.

The CAA is no better than the MAAC, AEast, or Patriot League, so I really don't understand why they would object

That would be fine as well. The issue however is JMU. They arent staying FCS which throws it all off because without JMU W&M would have less than 0 interest in that conference and the dominos begin to fall again. I also agree about football/basketball but thats only true if every gets along and believes in the same things, which they dont. Giving Richmond and Villanova (or Rhode Island, New Hampshire etc) staying power messes it all up because they are speaking only from football without a care for the other sports. Thats a problem and why we are dysfunctional now. Staying FCS in football is fine but you then have to replace both JMU and W&M (I would have 0 issues with W&M staying after JMU leaves).

So with those other 2 spots do you pick up a couple of patriot league teams that sorta have football, do you stick with HU/NU? Would those Patriot league schools even want to sponsor full scholarship football? Thats where it gets hairy and why I think you almost have to decide whether you want football or basketball, because without that decision and true leadership it will always be a convoluted mess.

I would say bring on Bucknell and Lehigh as those other two, but Lehigh likely wont join without Lafayette. I feel like those 3 would almost have to be a joint grouping. Which at that point drop UMBC as the third. That would give a pretty small footprint where longest northern travel would be Towson to Lafayette which is like 2.5 hours
04-07-2021 07:22 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #89
RE: 2021-2022 Men's Basketball
(04-07-2021 07:22 AM)dan10 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 03:18 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Thank you for the detailed response.

I personally don't think it has to be either/or for football and I believe at the FCS level there is no reason football and non football schools cannot work together.

For the CAA I believe the biggest thing that needs to happen is to pick a geographic direction. The 4 team core of the CAA is JMU, W&M, Towson and Delaware. When you look at the landscape of east coast FCS, those 4 schools make a lot of sense together and the geography isn't that bad. Throw in Drexel and UMBC, who should be added to the CAA, as non football basketball focused schools to partner with Delaware and Towson and you have a 6 schools with the maximum driving distance of 5 hours. That's a solid sensical division.

Those 6 schools then need to decide which direction they want to go. Do they want to create a northern division with Hofstra and Northeastern or do they want to create a southern division with Elon, UNCW, and CoC?

I think the easiest solution would be for Northeastern to go to the America East with its hockey rivals with the CAA taking UMBC and then Hofstra either joining the MAAC or the America East as well. Alternatively both Northeastern and Hoftsra joining the private school Patriot League would allow that league to have seasonal geographic divisons.

This would free up 2 to 4 slots in the CAA to add a Winthrop, UNCG, Campbell or whomever else they would want.

In my realistic perfect world I would like to see a 6 team Carolinas divison of
Elon
UNCG
Campbell
UNCW
Winthrop
CoC

The other half of the conference would be the MidAtlantic divison of
JMU
W&M
Towson
UMBC
Delaware
Drexel

This is a sensible geographic, basketball focused conference that protects the FCS football schools auto bid with 6 core members and Richmond & Villanova as a guaranteed 8 regardless of what the northern schools do. Every school has a travel partner. The farthest trip would be from Philly to Charleston.

Hoftsra and Northeastern would benefit being in basketball centric leagues in the same footprint.

The CAA is no better than the MAAC, AEast, or Patriot League, so I really don't understand why they would object

That would be fine as well. The issue however is JMU. They arent staying FCS which throws it all off because without JMU W&M would have less than 0 interest in that conference and the dominos begin to fall again. I also agree about football/basketball but thats only true if every gets along and believes in the same things, which they dont. Giving Richmond and Villanova (or Rhode Island, New Hampshire etc) staying power messes it all up because they are speaking only from football without a care for the other sports. Thats a problem and why we are dysfunctional now. Staying FCS in football is fine but you then have to replace both JMU and W&M (I would have 0 issues with W&M staying after JMU leaves).

So with those other 2 spots do you pick up a couple of patriot league teams that sorta have football, do you stick with HU/NU? Would those Patriot league schools even want to sponsor full scholarship football? Thats where it gets hairy and why I think you almost have to decide whether you want football or basketball, because without that decision and true leadership it will always be a convoluted mess.

I would say bring on Bucknell and Lehigh as those other two, but Lehigh likely wont join without Lafayette. I feel like those 3 would almost have to be a joint grouping. Which at that point drop UMBC as the third. That would give a pretty small footprint where longest northern travel would be Towson to Lafayette which is like 2.5 hours

I think limiting the FCS affiliates to only Villanova and Richmond would be fine. It would give core members a conference with their football rivals without letting the full members be overrun by affiliates. JMU may wants FBS but they need an invite. They already turned the Sunbelt down once so while the may want FBS it may be awhile. W&M has had the opportunity to leave for the Patriot League already and didn't. If JMU left, would that change? I dont know.

Either way if the CAA gets to 12 NOW with JMU and W&M and placed in the north division, then whomever replaces them if they do leave will be Northern members. As long as they are below Philly I dont think think the Carolinas division would argue too much.

Unfortunately this is just an idea because there is no trust or vision.
04-07-2021 08:06 AM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #90
RE: 2021-2022 Men's Basketball
Agreed and I am with you there. I also think an invite for them is very close with their success and their facilities. They are not in the same place they were the last time the SunBelt came knocking. Same with W&M. They are all about history and as long as they have a rival with them, they will resist. I suspect once JMU is no longer, it would be a hard sell to their fans to stick around without rivalries.

I also thought I had read that Villanova was one of the football members really driving the ship and causing the contention, which is why I would be concerned with them being part of it. I do agree with the premise though.

With any of it, it still comes down to needing someone who has vision and leadership to accomplish something. We dont have that currently. Heck we dont even have someone who will speak up for the league yet alone actually lead it. Until that is fixed, the ship will continue to compete with the titanic and will not have a chance "to be on the rise". What is laughable is the leadership, not so much the idea of hope for the conference.
04-07-2021 08:41 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #91
RE: 2021-2022 Men's Basketball
(04-07-2021 08:41 AM)dan10 Wrote:  Agreed and I am with you there. I also think an invite for them is very close with their success and their facilities. They are not in the same place they were the last time the SunBelt came knocking. Same with W&M. They are all about history and as long as they have a rival with them, they will resist. I suspect once JMU is no longer, it would be a hard sell to their fans to stick around without rivalries.

I also thought I had read that Villanova was one of the football members really driving the ship and causing the contention, which is why I would be concerned with them being part of it. I do agree with the premise though.

With any of it, it still comes down to needing someone who has vision and leadership to accomplish something. We dont have that currently. Heck we dont even have someone who will speak up for the league yet alone actually lead it. Until that is fixed, the ship will continue to compete with the titanic and will not have a chance "to be on the rise". What is laughable is the leadership, not so much the idea of hope for the conference.

I dont necessarily see how the football members would be causing problems unless they could block the CAA from adding an all sports member like Campbell that would need a football affiliation.

The Football members have to put their games on Flo with the money being spent on a basketball package on CBSSN. The CAA does need to get 6 all sports members and not be dependent on affiliates.

I think a fair compromise that could be reached now would be to add UMBC and Campbell now. That would give the CAA 6 full football members and both schools are quality in academics. Also, everyone would have a travel partner.

With JMU and W&M in the southern division, if they ever were to leave, a true Carolinas division could be created with no change required in the northern division. If Hofstra and Northeastern were to ever leave JMU and W&M could slide up to the north to solidify a Philly to VA Mid Atlantic division and a Carolinas division could be created that way.

Adding Campbell and UMBC should be doable and passable.
04-07-2021 09:31 AM
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