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UC Statement on Brannen
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eroc Offline
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Post: #841
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-03-2021 07:44 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 07:33 PM)eroc Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 07:02 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 06:53 PM)eroc Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 06:36 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  UC does not have the reputation as one to play hard-ball on these civil matters. In fact the reputation is the opposite. JB should have taken the money- once the written discovery starts flying and depositions get taken, his dirty laundry will be aired.

I get he is fighting for the $5M he believes he is owed, even if he wins the battle he may ultimately lose the war. He probably won’t be hirable for several years until all is forgotten.

Would he have been employable as an HC if he had taken the money? Strictly my opinion, but the time table for him is roughly the same whether he settled quietly or went to the mat with Cincy. As much as everybody wants this to go away, he's doing the right thing for his interests.

Yes. The difference being the longer this draws out, the more dirty laundry will be aired out about him. If he had taken the money several weeks ago, there would have been confidentiality and non-disparagement clauses agreed to. People who have just assumed the coach parted ways and would not have read anything further into it.

Perhaps i'm being naive but the reality is that regardless, Cincy would likely have to stay quiet related to John Brannen if future employers came calling for fear of additional litigation. They would have likely disclosed what we all already know about him but nothing more.

i apologize if i'm misreading your post, but it seems that you are assuming that if/when items come out, they will only hurt Coach Brannen. Undoubtedly it won't help him, but is it also possible that items may come out that would hurt Cincy? is it not at all curious that the investigation, at least to my knowledge, is still not closed?

A lawsuit is going to be filed eventually. Unless put under seal, the media will get their hands on the discovery one way or the other.

If the case goes to trial everything will definitely become fair game. JB has more at risk here. If UC is wrong then big deal, they pay money but they will still be UC.* If JB is wrong he could jeopardize his entire future.

* Regarding the money, people have assumed the money to pay for a defense and a settlement will come from UC's athletic budget. They pay premiums for insurance coverage for this sort of stuff. They may have a deductible or are self-insured up to a certain amount, but the balance will come from an Employment Practice Liability policy.

As a high level HC? Most definitely. As an HC at lower levels? Maybe, maybe not. As an assistant? Definitely not.

i'm not saying you're wrong. i'm saying i disagree. i'm keen to see how all this ends.

Honestly, i would like to know about the illegal benefits item in the letter. Does anyone have any details on this?
 
05-03-2021 07:52 PM
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levydl Offline
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Post: #842
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-03-2021 07:36 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 07:26 PM)levydl Wrote:  I tend to agree with eroc here. I don't think people hiring head coaches would have just shrugged about Brannen's leaving after year 2 when his players mutinied. He's probably better off fighting at this point.

There are a lot of short memories when it comes to coaches and whatever issues they had. He's still two years removed from a great stint at nku. People might not have hired him this year but if he let this thing go quietly he'd be in line for another opportunity somewhere to work his way back up. He may put that risk the more public things get.

Give up a chance at a few million dollars that he feels he's rightfully owed to hopefully get hired making a couple hundred thousand a year back at some NKU-like program? Doesn't seem like a difficult decision to me. I guess it depends on whether there are any real indiscretions that he wouldn't want out, but it seems like probably not at this point.
 
05-03-2021 08:02 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #843
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-03-2021 07:33 PM)eroc Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 07:02 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Yes. The difference being the longer this draws out, the more dirty laundry will be aired out about him. If he had taken the money several weeks ago, there would have been confidentiality and non-disparagement clauses agreed to. People who have just assumed the coach parted ways and would not have read anything further into it.

Perhaps i'm being naive but the reality is that regardless, Cincy would likely have to stay quiet related to John Brannen if future employers came calling for fear of additional litigation. They would have likely disclosed what we all already know about him but nothing more.

i apologize if i'm misreading your post, but it seems that you are assuming that if/when items come out, they will only hurt Coach Brannen. Undoubtedly it won't help him, but is it also possible that items may come out that would hurt Cincy? is it not at all curious that the investigation, at least to my knowledge, is still not closed?

Time and durability are on the university's side. There are far more potential head coaches than D1 jobs. JB is not gainfully employed and won't get $5M IMO. He has every right to choose to fight this but there is a cost to do so. The university is also making the argument about failure to protect the health, safety and welfare of student athletes. How many programs this year had this many players get the hell out of dodge AND the coach was let go due to alleged violations? Say what you will, but in today's climate that carries a ton of weight. The cost to fight is much higher for JB than for a university institution. The current situation didn't seem to impact our ability to hire a quality coach. I don't think kicking Grubberville out the door hurt us either.
 
05-03-2021 08:03 PM
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Post: #844
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
If you look at the college basketball landscape, the history of suits over firings "for cause" is that they are usually settled in a manner favorable to the coach, i.e., at least half of the buyout is eventually paid out.
 
05-03-2021 09:04 PM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #845
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-03-2021 09:04 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  If you look at the college basketball landscape, the history of suits over firings "for cause" is that they are usually settled in a manner favorable to the coach, i.e., at least half of the buyout is eventually paid out.

Part of that is there is value in getting it done. Even if uc has a slam dunk case they are sure they'll win in court I'm guessing they'd settle for 2.5 million tomorrow. The ability to move on and avoid the protracted legal battle would be worth it.
 
05-03-2021 09:11 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #846
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-03-2021 09:11 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 09:04 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  If you look at the college basketball landscape, the history of suits over firings "for cause" is that they are usually settled in a manner favorable to the coach, i.e., at least half of the buyout is eventually paid out.

Part of that is there is value in getting it done. Even if uc has a slam dunk case they are sure they'll win in court I'm guessing they'd settle for 2.5 million tomorrow. The ability to move on and avoid the protracted legal battle would be worth it.

Yep...plus, from the University's perspective, if you're paying out $2.5M instead of $5M AND you took a $300,000/year savings (already pushing the buyout balance down to $1.6M) with your hire PLUS you have a potential for a program level improvement that could make donors/season ticket potential buyers more excited to give the program money, the AD will likely make out with a black number in the end of this.
 
05-03-2021 09:14 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #847
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-03-2021 09:04 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  If you look at the college basketball landscape, the history of suits over firings "for cause" is that they are usually settled in a manner favorable to the coach, i.e., at least half of the buyout is eventually paid out.

I can't speak to the percentage of settlements but isn't "favorable to the coach" subjective? He's seeking $5M so to your stats he ends up with $2.5M. How many years will it take to get that money as I understand [as an example] Kevin Ollie's suit remains ongoing? Not saying that is an apple to an apple but time has to factor in to the favorable argument. What will JB's legal defense fees total? How much money could he have made in the time it took to reach a settlement less legal fees? How quickly will he find a job after the settlement is reached? What may come out in public impacts his hiring trajectory? All I'm saying is I don't see this as cut and dry if he fights this to the last stand.
 
05-03-2021 09:18 PM
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bearcat54 Offline
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Post: #848
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-03-2021 09:18 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 09:04 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  If you look at the college basketball landscape, the history of suits over firings "for cause" is that they are usually settled in a manner favorable to the coach, i.e., at least half of the buyout is eventually paid out.

I can't speak to the percentage of settlements but isn't "favorable to the coach" subjective? He's seeking $5M so to your stats he ends up with $2.5M. How many years will it take to get that money as I understand [as an example] Kevin Ollie's suit remains ongoing? Not saying that is an apple to an apple but time has to factor in to the favorable argument. What will JB's legal defense fees total? How much money could he have made in the time it took to reach a settlement less legal fees? How quickly will he find a job after the settlement is reached? What may come out in public impacts his hiring trajectory? All I'm saying is I don't see this as cut and dry if he fights this to the last stand.



if I'm not mistaken, if the story is true about CJB paying special payments to one of the players, we will probably be seeing sanctions placed on UC's bb program. Regardless whether CJB was the culprit, the school usually gets the punishment and the ex coach walks away with no reprimands.
Not a good thing for a program having to rebuild somewhat.
 
05-03-2021 09:22 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #849
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-03-2021 09:22 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 09:18 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 09:04 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  If you look at the college basketball landscape, the history of suits over firings "for cause" is that they are usually settled in a manner favorable to the coach, i.e., at least half of the buyout is eventually paid out.

I can't speak to the percentage of settlements but isn't "favorable to the coach" subjective? He's seeking $5M so to your stats he ends up with $2.5M. How many years will it take to get that money as I understand [as an example] Kevin Ollie's suit remains ongoing? Not saying that is an apple to an apple but time has to factor in to the favorable argument. What will JB's legal defense fees total? How much money could he have made in the time it took to reach a settlement less legal fees? How quickly will he find a job after the settlement is reached? What may come out in public impacts his hiring trajectory? All I'm saying is I don't see this as cut and dry if he fights this to the last stand.



if I'm not mistaken, if the story is true about CJB paying special payments to one of the players, we will probably be seeing sanctions placed on UC's bb program. Regardless whether CJB was the culprit, the school usually gets the punishment and the ex coach walks away with no reprimands.
Not a good thing for a program having to rebuild somewhat.

I dont know...the AD literally acted as quickly as possible to correct the issue by firing the person who was the cause of this issue within days of their findings.
 
05-03-2021 09:49 PM
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eroc Offline
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Post: #850
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-03-2021 09:49 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 09:22 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 09:18 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 09:04 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  If you look at the college basketball landscape, the history of suits over firings "for cause" is that they are usually settled in a manner favorable to the coach, i.e., at least half of the buyout is eventually paid out.

I can't speak to the percentage of settlements but isn't "favorable to the coach" subjective? He's seeking $5M so to your stats he ends up with $2.5M. How many years will it take to get that money as I understand [as an example] Kevin Ollie's suit remains ongoing? Not saying that is an apple to an apple but time has to factor in to the favorable argument. What will JB's legal defense fees total? How much money could he have made in the time it took to reach a settlement less legal fees? How quickly will he find a job after the settlement is reached? What may come out in public impacts his hiring trajectory? All I'm saying is I don't see this as cut and dry if he fights this to the last stand.



if I'm not mistaken, if the story is true about CJB paying special payments to one of the players, we will probably be seeing sanctions placed on UC's bb program. Regardless whether CJB was the culprit, the school usually gets the punishment and the ex coach walks away with no reprimands.
Not a good thing for a program having to rebuild somewhat.

I dont know...the AD literally acted as quickly as possible to correct the issue by firing the person who was the cause of this issue within days of their findings.

Do you know the date of the findings?
 
05-03-2021 10:02 PM
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cincy11 Offline
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Post: #851
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
If there was a settlement offered by UC that was in the $2 million range or more I think Brannen is crazy not to have taken it.

Between legal fees for his big $ attorney & the bad look of going through this process, it’s not going to benefit him to drag it out.

On top of that, there’s a dark cloud hovering over you personally until this stuff ends. Constant stress & negativity... Not ideal for enjoying life.
 
05-03-2021 10:18 PM
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Post: #852
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
Would the team dinner at his house be considered benefits?
 
05-03-2021 10:28 PM
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Post: #853
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-03-2021 06:41 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  If he wants to be a head coach again a quick settlement would be so much better for him.

Yep. Discovery alone will make him toxic for any job beyond the Washington Generals.
 
05-03-2021 10:55 PM
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geef Offline
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RE: UC Statement on Brannen
It's been weeks since Doss has used the name "Richie". Seems our AD is a pro at what he does.
 
05-03-2021 11:36 PM
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robertfoshizzle Offline
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Post: #855
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
I’m really excited to have Coach Miller here. The lawyers will sort out the rest, but I think the program is in better shape than it would have been with Brannen at the helm.
 
05-04-2021 12:19 AM
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doss2 Offline
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Post: #856
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-03-2021 11:36 PM)geef Wrote:  It's been weeks since Doss has used the name "Richie". Seems our AD is a pro at what he does.

He will always be Richie to me.
 
05-04-2021 03:25 AM
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eroc Offline
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RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-03-2021 10:28 PM)ucbrownsfan Wrote:  Would the team dinner at his house be considered benefits?

I believe it said one student athlete
 
05-04-2021 06:04 AM
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QSECOFR Offline
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Post: #858
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
I am not an attorney nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I am willing to bet that neither party wants to go through discovery and have it become public. That alone tells me that something will be worked out in private.
 
05-04-2021 07:27 AM
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Post: #859
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
Should we interpret the return of the strength/conditioning coach as another indication that his separation from UC had more to do with Brannen than Cunningham?

Much of the original chatter about that focused on blaming Cunningham and a narrative of football taking priority over basketball. It would now appear that we didn't know what we didn't know at that time. And if that's the case, kudos to Cunningham for managing through this for months before it became (somewhat) public.
 
05-04-2021 07:50 AM
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Post: #860
RE: UC Statement on Brannen
(05-04-2021 07:50 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Should we interpret the return of the strength/conditioning coach as another indication that his separation from UC had more to do with Brannen than Cunningham?

Much of the original chatter about that focused on blaming Cunningham and a narrative of football taking priority over basketball. It would now appear that we didn't know what we didn't know at that time. And if that's the case, kudos to Cunningham for managing through this for months before it became (somewhat) public.

I feel like there were probably more than a few issues...I mean, look at the title Rehfeldt came back with: Associate Athletic Director for Sports Performance. That makes it appear that there was a lot more being asked of than just a big room that he couldn't get.
 
05-04-2021 07:53 AM
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