The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Thanks Drunkard. Now I have Bob Seeger’s “Night Moves” locked on my mind!

(03-24-2021 02:24 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 10:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 10:49 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 09:34 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Kent Bazemore had 3 very good years at ODU. It was not just scoring, scoring, rebouding, passing, defense, etc.

Hassell had 1 really good year and a decent junior year.

Gerald Lee was the man for 3 straight years. Loughton was the man for 3 straight years. Hodge is probably better than both and was a force each of the 4 (umm 5) years he played. They were probably better than Gattison/West.

Sessoms, Dave T, & Freeman are probably the best guards we have had.

Hassell and Williamson don't belong in the group with these players named.

Petey Sessoms didn't play guard. I believe that he played center at Cradock High School. He played forward at ODU.

Wing player...whatever. Baze was a guard/wing player as well that often ran the point.

Sessoms, Dave T, and Freeman are probably the best *non big players* we have ever had.

See, this is what you do. You make a comment about something like Sessoms being a "guard", get corrected on your incorrect statement, then act like what you said was somehow accurate anyway by saying "wing player ... whatever" and attempt to drag Bazemore into it by saying that he was a guard/wing player (which is a different player and no one is disputing that he was those things).

I have my doubts that you ever saw Ronnie Valentine play in high school (Norfolk Catholic) or at ODU. I saw him at both places. If you had seen him you might want to reconsider your best "non big players" to either substitute him in there or at least expand the list to include him. AC Carver would be another solid candidate to consider as well. If limiting it to just 3 people the only lock there I would give you would be Twardzik. I never saw Harry Lozon play and FWIW he too might be a viable candidate.

Also, keep in mind that Sessoms and Valentine are both 6'-7" which qualifies them to be considered as "big players" in the Jeff Jones era where he has had players that size and smaller playing center.

You equate height to the position you want to label players; I equate skills to the position I want to label players. Which really, there is no reason to actually label players.

(03-24-2021 10:31 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Anyone have any suggestions for the name of the soon-to-be split thread discussing Kalu and The Tank?

Some nice moderating there! Kudos!

And also, I love the title!

(03-24-2021 02:38 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 02:24 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 10:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 10:49 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 09:34 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Kent Bazemore had 3 very good years at ODU. It was not just scoring, scoring, rebouding, passing, defense, etc.

Hassell had 1 really good year and a decent junior year.

Gerald Lee was the man for 3 straight years. Loughton was the man for 3 straight years. Hodge is probably better than both and was a force each of the 4 (umm 5) years he played. They were probably better than Gattison/West.

Sessoms, Dave T, & Freeman are probably the best guards we have had.

Hassell and Williamson don't belong in the group with these players named.

Petey Sessoms didn't play guard. I believe that he played center at Cradock High School. He played forward at ODU.

Wing player...whatever. Baze was a guard/wing player as well that often ran the point.

Sessoms, Dave T, and Freeman are probably the best *non big players* we have ever had.

See, this is what you do. You make a comment about something like Sessoms being a "guard", get corrected on your incorrect statement, then act like what you said was somehow accurate anyway by saying "wing player ... whatever" and attempt to drag Bazemore into it by saying that he was a guard/wing player (which is a different player and no one is disputing that he was those things).

I have my doubts that you ever saw Ronnie Valentine play in high school (Norfolk Catholic) or at ODU. I saw him at both places. If you had seen him you might want to reconsider your best "non big players" to either substitute him in there or at least expand the list to include him. AC Carver would be another solid candidate to consider as well. If limiting it to just 3 people the only lock there I would give you would be Twardzik. I never saw Harry Lozon play and FWIW he too might be a viable candidate.

Also, keep in mind that Sessoms and Valentine are both 6'-7" which qualifies them to be considered as "big players" in the Jeff Jones era where he has had players that size and smaller playing center.

You equate height to the position you want to label players; I equate skills to the position I want to label players. Which really, there is no reason to actually label players.

Actually you are wrong on both counts. I don't list players according to either their height or their skills. I list the players in according to the positions they play on the court during the games - i.e. who they are matched up against defensively in Jeff's man to man, who is posting up in Jeff's half court offense, who is bringing the ball up the court and handling the PG duties, etc. If they are undersized in their match-ups on either end of the court for what they are being asked to do at their position then I mention their height as being an issue. The coach evaluates their skills - i.e. who can pass, dribble, shoot, rebound, defend the post, etc. - and places the players into their positions accordingly. Hunter and Fields for example are at or just under 6 feet and have played point guard some for Jeff. Green is 6'-6" and has also filled in at the position some. When Green has played the point I critiqued him as a point guard, not as a shooting guard or small forward where he has also played. My assessment is that both Fields and Hunter (of late) did a better job at the position. It has nothing to do with height. Magic Johnson at 6'-9" did a great job playing point guard for the Lakers, and also played some other positions nicely as well for them. Some can, some not so much.

My comments regarding Jeff's 6'-7" and smaller post players is because he has had a few of them that size playing the post. Blaine went for bigger post players (and at least some that had more skills) while playing a similar style of basketball as the one Jeff's teams at ODU have played. The point guards, shooting guards, and small forwards have been similar in size for both coaches.

You want everything regarding ODU basketball (or just basketball in general) to be "position-less basketball" with the court spread on offense and everybody being able to hit three point shots, and also having the skill to drive to the basket from outside the 3 point arc. That's great if that is the style of play that the coach uses for his team. Jeff doesn't coach that style of play. You are routinely for players that fit your style when discussing recruits or current players, and at times are not in favor of players that don't - even though they may be a better fit for Jeff's style which is what we should be hoping he will get.

Cliffs?

(03-24-2021 10:42 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 10:16 AM)mac Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 09:42 AM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  Since this is a NCAA tourney thread. I think you are putting Baze too high, he lost a couple spots when he was shutout in the Butler game. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy. That huge moment was a let down, with one of the best ODU teams.

And three straight turnovers against Baylor after we had charged back too. I was there, thought we had them and so did many of their fans around us. Hey, it happens, Baylor was pretty good.

My wife and I were there in New Orleans to see Notre Dame and Baylor play ODU as well Mac. We stayed at the Hampton Inn - walking distance to the French Quarter.

I forget what hotel but we were near the quarter too, across a major street. A great trip .... mostly!

(03-24-2021 10:44 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 10:14 AM)mac Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 08:44 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 07:51 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 05:02 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Gerald Lee was far and away the best player on the team that beat Notre Dame and lost to Baylor. Kent Bazemore was probably our second best player on that team. I like Frank, but top 10 Monarch... no way in hell.

Gerald Lee and Kent Bazemore also qualify as consideration for top 10. You can make the argument for any of them. You are comparing Lee the senior and go to guy to Frank the junior who played his role and played it well. If you look at their bodies of work they are close. Both went to 2 tournaments (albeit Lee had a lesser role as a freshman), both were able to dominate games, both were vary consistent upperclassmen. Both were senior leaders on 2 of the best teams in ODU's history. Baze was by far and away the best athlete and had the wow factor. Maybe not quite as consistent as a scorer as the other two, but that's to be expected at his position.

Unless something drastic and unexpected happens next season, Kalu won't be in this conversation. I like Kalu... he is a good player and Monarch and am not disparaging him or the work he is putting in but he is not an all-time great.

I love Frank and Kent, but ODU has long history of some great players. I don't think Id put either in our top 10. Kent was a great player for us, but really, he had one outstanding year, and one really good year. What he did have is the athleticism and build to carry his skills over to the NBA where he continued to improve. Im thrilled for him, but for as good as he was at ODU, he is a much better professional player. And thats due to continued hard work. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Frank would probably make the top 10 big men at ODU, but I just cant see top 10 overall.

Gerald Lee, Alex Loughton, Odell Hodge, Petey Sessoms, Kenny Gattison, Mark West, Twardzick, Wilson Washigton, Ricardo Leonard, Drew Williamson, Trey Freeman... thats 12 Id probably take ahead of either just off the top of my head. No disrespect intended.

And that's the problem with folks who have not seen the greats at ODU from the past. I started watching the Monarchs in the early 70's. Some of the newer guys were real fine players. Top 10, not seeing it although Lee is close. Baze's first two years he was a turnover machine.

We have a former Monarch player doing Monarch games who has had his number retired by both ODU and his NBA team. Another guy who was named 6th man in the NBA one year and averaged over 21 and 10 for his career at ODU. West, Washington, Gatling and others like Copeland and... wait a minute.... WHY ISN"T PETEY SESSOMS NUMBER RETIRED AND HANGING IN THE RAFTERS PLEASE. ( and yes he graduated from ODU too) MAJOR oversight IMO.

Sounds like we have been watching ODU about the same amount of time. I started in the late 60's. I agree about guys like Copeland, and would also add Ronnie Valentine to the mix here.

Valentine would be near the very top my friend. 44 points against Tulane. On the road. No three point shot. The Georgetown playoff game where they couldn’t stop him comes to mind too.

(03-25-2021 06:31 AM)mac Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 10:44 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 10:14 AM)mac Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 08:44 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(03-24-2021 07:51 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Gerald Lee and Kent Bazemore also qualify as consideration for top 10. You can make the argument for any of them. You are comparing Lee the senior and go to guy to Frank the junior who played his role and played it well. If you look at their bodies of work they are close. Both went to 2 tournaments (albeit Lee had a lesser role as a freshman), both were able to dominate games, both were vary consistent upperclassmen. Both were senior leaders on 2 of the best teams in ODU's history. Baze was by far and away the best athlete and had the wow factor. Maybe not quite as consistent as a scorer as the other two, but that's to be expected at his position.

Unless something drastic and unexpected happens next season, Kalu won't be in this conversation. I like Kalu... he is a good player and Monarch and am not disparaging him or the work he is putting in but he is not an all-time great.

I love Frank and Kent, but ODU has long history of some great players. I don't think Id put either in our top 10. Kent was a great player for us, but really, he had one outstanding year, and one really good year. What he did have is the athleticism and build to carry his skills over to the NBA where he continued to improve. Im thrilled for him, but for as good as he was at ODU, he is a much better professional player. And thats due to continued hard work. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Frank would probably make the top 10 big men at ODU, but I just cant see top 10 overall.

Gerald Lee, Alex Loughton, Odell Hodge, Petey Sessoms, Kenny Gattison, Mark West, Twardzick, Wilson Washigton, Ricardo Leonard, Drew Williamson, Trey Freeman... thats 12 Id probably take ahead of either just off the top of my head. No disrespect intended.

And that's the problem with folks who have not seen the greats at ODU from the past. I started watching the Monarchs in the early 70's. Some of the newer guys were real fine players. Top 10, not seeing it although Lee is close. Baze's first two years he was a turnover machine.

We have a former Monarch player doing Monarch games who has had his number retired by both ODU and his NBA team. Another guy who was named 6th man in the NBA one year and averaged over 21 and 10 for his career at ODU. West, Washington, Gatling and others like Copeland and... wait a minute.... WHY ISN"T PETEY SESSOMS NUMBER RETIRED AND HANGING IN THE RAFTERS PLEASE. ( and yes he graduated from ODU too) MAJOR oversight IMO.

Sounds like we have been watching ODU about the same amount of time. I started in the late 60's. I agree about guys like Copeland, and would also add Ronnie Valentine to the mix here.

Valentine would be near the very top my friend. 44 points against Tulane. On the road. No three point shot. The Georgetown playoff game where they couldn’t stop him comes to mind too.

I was at that playoff game as well Mac. Don't know if it was that season or another one where ODU matched up with Georgetown, but after the game a good friend of mine who attended the game was at a restaurant and the Georgetown team came in to eat. He went over to John Thompson to say hello and congratulate him on the season. He asked a question about ODU and Thompson responded something like, "He didn't care if he never had to see ODU again. They physically beat the he** out of my team". He said that Thompson also singled out ODU player Mike Ray when mentioning that.

EDIT: Also, in my mind, Valentine and Petey are my candidates for the best small forward in ODU's history (since the late 60's at least). If I was making a 1-5 positions all time ODU team, one of them would be on it and the other would be on the 2nd team at the same position. Wish ODU could get players like that these days.