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Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
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epasnoopy Offline
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Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
https://theathletic.com/2469420/2021/03/...f-does-not

Quote:Let’s get this out of the way: I love college football. The passion and pageantry of the sport are unrivaled...I love it as much as anyone. But college football’s ruling elite has essentially been allowed to run the sport like a cartel. And their years of systematic oppression have effectively destroyed the competitive balance of the sport for the sake of greed and power.

Everything in major college football — excessive scholarship limits, conference affiliations, the championship selection process — is designed to aid the rich and penalize the middle and lower classes. By stacking the deck in their favor, college football’s kingmakers have created a ceiling for the rest of the FBS, a self-perpetuating cycle by which the rich continue to get richer and the disparity between the haves and have-nots increases annually.

Quote:Here’s how it works: The conference commissioners and athletic directors create an exclusive country club in which they control membership and dictate the rules. This caste system rewards the elite and creates an uneven playing field. The blue bloods dominate, raking in the notoriety, resources and elite recruits who see no benefit in attending schools that can’t realistically compete for a championship.

Quote:The only solution is radical change.

Scholarship restrictions would force elite schools to be smarter and shrewder with their player procurement. Reducing the scholarships from 85 to, say, 75 would help to level the playing field. FCS schools manage to field teams with 63 scholarships, so it can be done. And to be fair, that’s not a task that should be taken lightly; I’m not looking to deny anyone an opportunity for higher education. But smarter people than me can make it work. Where there’s a will there’s a way.
03-23-2021 07:21 PM
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bikechuck Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
Thanks for posting the link and especially the quotes as I do not subscribe to The Athletic. The concept of reducing FBS scholarships from 85 to 75 is one that I had not thought of. It is a great idea that is highly unlikely to ever happen.

I often wonder if NIU would be better off as a top tier FCS program than hanging on by our fingertips to one of the lowest rungs of the FBS.
03-23-2021 11:11 PM
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Dog Fan Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
(03-23-2021 11:11 PM)bikechuck Wrote:  Thanks for posting the link and especially the quotes as I do not subscribe to The Athletic. The concept of reducing FBS scholarships from 85 to 75 is one that I had not thought of. It is a great idea that is highly unlikely to ever happen.

I often wonder if NIU would be better off as a top tier FCS program than hanging on by our fingertips to one of the lowest rungs of the FBS.

Yes, I agree. I have been saying this for quite a while. While we have had teams that can and did compete on an FBS level, NIU is not an FBS school. Our budget is miniscule (certainly below an FBS level). We can hardly pay our coaches. And for what we pay the asst. coaches, we should recognize an in-kind contribution to the school from them. Facilities and the running of those facilities are embarrassing. There is a lack of fan support (average attendance is around 12K or less) - not at the FBS level. We have difficulty generating donations, and the "Master Plan" has never been realized (or come even close). We cannot get a naming sponsor for our facilities (i.e., Convo). If this does not paint an FCS picture, I do not know what does. NIU already gives the impression that we are FCS. How many times have you had to tell people that NIU plays at the same level as the Big 10? And certainly the media has never given us the respect and acknowledgements they do for other FBS teams (even from around the country). I would certainly not push for this, but the reality of NIU's situation is there, and we can't ignore it.

I know that some would stop supporting the Huskies if we dropped down to FCS. I will continue to support the teams because I am a Huskie fan - not an FBS or FCS designation fan.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2021 06:38 AM by Dog Fan.)
03-24-2021 06:31 AM
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epasnoopy Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
If NIU ever moved down to FCS I would probably just become more of a NIU basketball fan. I honestly have never had any interest in FCS football. I don't think we would find more success moving down because then we would just be another FCS school that no one cares about and those players we used to get would just go to other MAC schools instead.

Unfortunately, as long as the NIU student population remains below where it used to be (over 25,000 students in 2004ish), we are doing more (cost of attendance, increased nutrition/food costs, ever increasing cost of tuition, etc.) with less (9,000 less students means about $4.5 million less in student fees).
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2021 07:50 AM by epasnoopy.)
03-24-2021 07:25 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
I know most hate this idea....but I’m all for a G5 division. NIU is caught between FCS and FBS. They’re really neither. Hell, half the MAC isn’t FBS caliber. Who says there can’t be a third tier? Pull a couple top FCS schools up and create a great G5 conference who’s schools don’t sacrifice their entire budgets keeping up with the financial institutes of P5 corporations.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2021 08:24 AM by Rabid Squirrel.)
03-24-2021 08:24 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
Schools like NIU remind me of the guy who makes 80k a year and buys a $400k home because he wants to be seen as upper middle class. Then stresses every month if he can make his mortgage, has huge credit card debt, no savings, no vacation and eventually has to sell.
03-24-2021 08:33 AM
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Dog Fan Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
(03-24-2021 08:33 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Schools like NIU remind me of the guy who makes 80k a year and buys a $400k home because he wants to be seen as upper middle class. Then stresses every month if he can make his mortgage, has huge credit card debt, no savings, no vacation and eventually has to sell.

Good analogy, and I like the idea of a third tier between FBS and FCS.
03-24-2021 09:43 AM
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HuskieJ Online
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
This thread really saddens me. Pretty much the final death of NIU if it gives up the linkage to Div 1 status. It is really the only thing positive the University has had the last 10 years. If passionate people on this site are now willing to throw in the towel, I guess it is time to pull the plug. Never thought I would see this day come.
03-24-2021 10:10 AM
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Big Red Online
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
(03-24-2021 10:10 AM)HuskieJ Wrote:  This thread really saddens me. Pretty much the final death of NIU if it gives up the linkage to Div 1 status. It is really the only thing positive the University has had the last 10 years. If passionate people on this site are now willing to throw in the towel, I guess it is time to pull the plug. Never thought I would see this day come.

To be honest, I think it's sad anyone would think a University would live or die based on a D-I FBS status of its football team.
03-24-2021 10:45 AM
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HuskieJ Online
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
(03-24-2021 10:45 AM)Big Red Wrote:  
(03-24-2021 10:10 AM)HuskieJ Wrote:  This thread really saddens me. Pretty much the final death of NIU if it gives up the linkage to Div 1 status. It is really the only thing positive the University has had the last 10 years. If passionate people on this site are now willing to throw in the towel, I guess it is time to pull the plug. Never thought I would see this day come.

To be honest, I think it's sad anyone would think a University would live or die based on a D-I FBS status of its football team.

Never said live or die, just sad that it has come to this. Like it or not the status has been tied to Football success lately. I wish it was academics or a growing student population, but those are both declining. Give up D1 which is the only thing left separating NIU from being EIU or WIU, and the slide will be even faster. My opinion, but please refrain from commenting on it.
03-24-2021 10:57 AM
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Big Red Online
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
(03-24-2021 10:57 AM)HuskieJ Wrote:  
(03-24-2021 10:45 AM)Big Red Wrote:  
(03-24-2021 10:10 AM)HuskieJ Wrote:  This thread really saddens me. Pretty much the final death of NIU if it gives up the linkage to Div 1 status. It is really the only thing positive the University has had the last 10 years. If passionate people on this site are now willing to throw in the towel, I guess it is time to pull the plug. Never thought I would see this day come.

To be honest, I think it's sad anyone would think a University would live or die based on a D-I FBS status of its football team.

Never said live or die, just sad that it has come to this. Like it or not the status has been tied to Football success lately. I wish it was academics or a growing student population, but those are both declining. Give up D1 which is the only thing left separating NIU from being EIU or WIU, and the slide will be even faster. My opinion, but please refrain from commenting on it.

Well, if you're putting it on the forum, it's fair game for commenting. Opinion or not.

With that said, you did say "the final death of NIU". So, if you didn't mean live or die, then maybe not mentioning "death" would have been better.

Either way, that's fine. I get that it's important. But it's not everything.
03-24-2021 11:17 AM
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NIU1981 Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
I think FCS football is great and I've watched a ton of MVFC games on ESPN Plus this spring, very entertaining. If it ever came to NIU dropping to FCS I would watch and support them just as much as now. But it won't come to that. There were a bunch of articles within the last year that talked about the economic difference between G5 and FCS and there's no comparison. Even independents like UConn, UMass and New Mexico State are better off as-is than going FCS. Not happening.

Regarding the parity ideas above, I think dropping to 80 schollys might be interesting. There are 66 P5 teams if you include BYU. Removing five schollys from them means 330 players who would have signed with P5 would be looking at G5.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2021 11:23 AM by NIU1981.)
03-24-2021 11:21 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
(03-24-2021 11:21 AM)NIU1981 Wrote:  I think FCS football is great and I've watched a ton of MVFC games on ESPN Plus this spring, very entertaining. If it ever came to NIU dropping to FCS I would watch and support them just as much as now. But it won't come to that. There were a bunch of articles within the last year that talked about the economic difference between G5 and FCS and there's no comparison. Even independents like UConn, UMass and New Mexico State are better off as-is than going FCS. Not happening.

Regarding the parity ideas above, I think dropping to 80 schollys might be interesting. There are 66 P5 teams if you include BYU. Removing five schollys from them means 330 players who would have signed with P5 would be looking at G5.

The issue is more about finances rather than quality of players. Schools like NIU lack the resources to provide an FBS atmosphere. We can add better players but the budget is still going to be around 30 mil while many P5s are operating on $100 mil.
03-24-2021 12:01 PM
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pvk75 Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
Looking at just one facet of the bigger picture ... I know the Missouri Valley has not wanted NIU in the past, but there are new factors to consider: new MVC commissioner; serious discussion by WIU of moving to the Ohio Valley from the MVFC and Summit; and a shift in the Summit League toward the Dakotas/north/west with enough schools to sponsor football without the MVFC.

Then there is NIU's changing/improving status: groundbreaking is this year (so they say) for the new Center for Community Sustainability, the push is still on for a new Health Informatics facility and program, and NIU has good law, nursing, business, industrial tech schools.

The MVC is a split public-private conference, and they seem pretty dedicated to that. But again, there are things happening elsewhere. If WIU goes to the OVC, and since the OVC recently lost some key schools to the ASun etc., Belmont (non-football) may again be on the MVC's radar. To maintain public-private balance, they need a public to go with private Belmont. The MVC could pull in Murray State, but imo NIU might get support from the Illinois members this time around.

(Note: I personally would favor a new G5-level for football than a drop to FCS. But keep in mind the widespread objection when STF proposed a G5 playoff. And what's the difference between that and the existing G5, except maybe no Access Bowl? Too many G5 schools have already bought into the big-time mantra The Atlantic article addresses and are investing big bucks.)
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2021 12:29 PM by pvk75.)
03-24-2021 12:26 PM
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pvk75 Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
Now, with somewhat of a background in plan/development review, I have tried to put FCS/New G5-level football -- and remaining DI in other sports -- into a facilities perspective.

The existing plan and fund-raising estimates put east and south end zone projects at Huskie Stadium at $60 million (see Huskies Invest project list). For that amount and contributions, NIU can probably upgrade the baseball and softball fields, repair the soccer/track&field facility and add stormwater retention, complete the ground-level concourse at the Convo, and build an Olympic Village facility. I'm using existing master plan (circa 2014) estimates.

NIU has strong support for golf, and a good cross country course (in the outdoor rec area), so that leaves indoor/outdoor tennis (NIU has outdoor courts and uses the fieldhouse for indoor) and basic cleanup and repair at Huskie Stadium.

The advantage of all of the above is that they are not the magnitude of a Huskie Stadium overhaul and expansion, and can be done one+more at a time. If repaired and well-maintained, HS is just right for FCS/New G5-level football; perhaps better than most.
03-24-2021 12:30 PM
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pvk75 Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
Just a reminder: when NIU went independent for football, it basically threw other sports under the bus. MBB is starting over, WBB is still struggling, and many just forgot we even had other sports. NIU can't let that happen to almost 3/4 of its student-athletes again.

Last comment for now (I promise ... until I don't.)
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2021 12:39 PM by pvk75.)
03-24-2021 12:38 PM
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Big Red Online
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
(03-24-2021 12:38 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  Just a reminder: when NIU went independent for football, it basically threw other sports under the bus. MBB is starting over, WBB is still struggling, and many just forgot we even had other sports. NIU can't let that happen to almost 3/4 of its student-athletes again.

Last comment for now (I promise ... until I don't.)

Isn't that period of 86 to 92, when they were independent, when NIU also didn't have a baseball team or a track team?
03-24-2021 12:55 PM
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klake87 Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
We do not have alumni support. We have some wealthy alums that would never donate.
03-24-2021 12:57 PM
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pvk75 Offline
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
(03-24-2021 12:55 PM)Big Red Wrote:  
(03-24-2021 12:38 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  Just a reminder: when NIU went independent for football, it basically threw other sports under the bus. MBB is starting over, WBB is still struggling, and many just forgot we even had other sports. NIU can't let that happen to almost 3/4 of its student-athletes again.

Last comment for now (I promise ... until I don't.)

Isn't that period of 86 to 92, when they were independent, when NIU also didn't have a baseball team or a track team?

Yes ... '86-92, Big West, '96 indep. and back to MAC in '97. I should have used a different tense in reference to MBB and WBB ... but look at how we got where we are today. My point was don't make that kind of mistake again.
03-24-2021 01:13 PM
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Big Red Online
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RE: Comebacks. Upsets. Parity: Men’s NCAA Tournament has everything College Football Play
(03-24-2021 01:13 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  
(03-24-2021 12:55 PM)Big Red Wrote:  
(03-24-2021 12:38 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  Just a reminder: when NIU went independent for football, it basically threw other sports under the bus. MBB is starting over, WBB is still struggling, and many just forgot we even had other sports. NIU can't let that happen to almost 3/4 of its student-athletes again.

Last comment for now (I promise ... until I don't.)

Isn't that period of 86 to 92, when they were independent, when NIU also didn't have a baseball team or a track team?

Yes ... '86-92, Big West, '96 indep. and back to MAC in '97. I should have used a different tense in reference to MBB and WBB ... but look at how we got where we are today. My point was don't make that kind of mistake again.

Oh for sure. I started there in 93 and had no idea they had just started up the baseball program again. I played in HS and a few people told me it might have been worth it to just try out at a walk-on. Not sure about that but it'd have been fun. And I was always surprised we didn't have a track team.

I just never really connected it in my head to football going independent but those things all line up and it took decades to rebound from it (if they ever did rebound).

So yeah, one bad choice like that can definitely set the entire thing back. I presume going to FCS would be different because money would be allocated differently and there's a different post-season structure that is open to more teams. I'd prefer to stay FBS but, to be honest, I really don't see the difference. The MAC, from a football perspective, has gone down a lot in the past 5 or so years. At one point, you could make the argument it was a higher level conference (non-P5, of course) but I think nowadays, you'd be hard pressed to argue they're not the worst conference in FBS. So, how exactly would our schedule change if we went FCS? We'd still get a couple of money games against P5 opponents and then play teams that might actually be better than the MAC while in conference all with an actual chance at winning something that matters.

Again, I'm not in favor of it but....I'm struggling to defend it as well.
03-24-2021 02:18 PM
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