The report we all knew was coming:

Quote:Now that the 2020 figures have been properly tallied, there’s still no convincing evidence that strict lockdowns reduced the death toll from Covid-19. But one effect is clear: more deaths from other causes, especially among the young and middle-aged, minorities, and the less affluent.

Sadly, the lockdown was simply too politically useful (and emotionally thrilling, for many who did not themselves have to deal with the consequences):

Quote:During the spring, panicked officials claimed the lockdowns were a temporary measure justified by projections that hospitals would be overwhelmed. But then the lockdowns continued long after it became clear that the projections were wildly wrong.

The consequences are still being tallied, and likely will be with us for decades:

Quote:If a corporation behaved this way, continuing knowingly to sell an unproven drug or medical treatment with fatal side effects, its executives would be facing lawsuits, bankruptcy, and criminal charges. But the lockdown proponents are recklessly staying the course, still insisting that lockdowns work. The burden of proof rests with those imposing such a dangerous policy, and they haven’t met it. There’s still no proof that lockdowns save any lives—let alone enough to compensate for the lives they end.

Full article: https://www.city-journal.org/death-and-lockdowns

Just one slight problem. This isn't a "report" or some scientific study. It's an opinion piece based upon a bunch of articles the author interspersed.

It's still likely too early to write any definitive report on the pandemic. Additionally, it's near impossible to predict what having no lockdowns would result in, in America. We seem to have a propensity to do things like Spring Break last weekend, etc.

There are similar articles that completely counter what your article reports...here is one such article:

Quote:Some posts on the issue of lockdowns are missing context, and some present information that is contradicted by international studies. While it is true that more restrictive measures that aim to control the spread of SARS-CoV-2 can have an impact in income and mental health, multiple studies suggest that stay-at-home orders and other nonpharmaceutical interventions have a determining role in reducing the transmission of the virus. Experts highlight that a more “targeted” approach rather than a “nationwide” lockdown, can limit the impact of the pandemic while balancing other economic, mental health and social concerns.

Fact check: Studies show COVID-19 lockdowns have saved lives

RWT, you've made absolutely fair points. None of us can definitively say what would have happened if we as a nation had acted differently. Perhaps a total lockdown, in which party-happy youths could somehow have been kept in incubation, would have prevented the spread of the disease. Or perhaps a steadfast refusal to lockdown at all would have brought us to herd immunity much more quickly. We'll never know, because those are not the paths we chose.

But it is today only the progressives are the ones who are still insisting on authoritarian measures - - without any scientific basis to support those policies. When history is written, that fascist elf Fauci will go down as one of the real villains of our generation. And both Presidents Trump and Biden as the biggest dupes.

(03-23-2021 07:14 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  RWT, you've made absolutely fair points. None of us can definitively say what would have happened if we as a nation had acted differently. Perhaps a total lockdown, in which party-happy youths could somehow have been kept in incubation, would have prevented the spread of the disease. Or perhaps a steadfast refusal to lockdown at all would have brought us to herd immunity much more quickly. We'll never know, because those are not the paths we chose.

But it is today only the progressives are the ones who are still insisting on authoritarian measures - - without any scientific basis to support those policies. When history is written, that fascist elf Fauci will go down as one of the real villains of our generation. And both Presidents Trump and Biden as the biggest dupes.

Shutting down business and schools has been overwhelmingly been local decisions, governors, mayors, councils, school boards etc. In the last stimulus spending bill my city/counties got, Greater Cincinnati, got 900 Million. So even if local leaders are pro open business they have to be publicly quasi we need some safe Covid measures blah blah blah.

Where I live in Ohio, schools have been full opened this entire school year. Our local infection rates are no better or worse than anywhere else that is similar is size or population density. Closing schools for the 20-21 school year would be one thing I consider a huge miscalculation and the worst call by any local/state government. Especially since even the CDC doesn’t support it.

(03-23-2021 07:22 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 07:14 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  RWT, you've made absolutely fair points. None of us can definitively say what would have happened if we as a nation had acted differently. Perhaps a total lockdown, in which party-happy youths could somehow have been kept in incubation, would have prevented the spread of the disease. Or perhaps a steadfast refusal to lockdown at all would have brought us to herd immunity much more quickly. We'll never know, because those are not the paths we chose.

But it is today only the progressives are the ones who are still insisting on authoritarian measures - - without any scientific basis to support those policies. When history is written, that fascist elf Fauci will go down as one of the real villains of our generation. And both Presidents Trump and Biden as the biggest dupes.

Shutting down business and schools has been overwhelmingly been local decisions, governors, mayors, councils, school boards etc. In the last stimulus spending bill my city/counties got, Greater Cincinnati, got 900 Million. So even if local leaders are pro open business they have to be publicly quasi we need some safe Covid measures blah blah blah.

And the reason they were local decisions is because Trump refused to play dictator, even though the left had been calling him that his entire term in office.

Again, another projection of what they are in an attempt to hide what they are.

Biden, on the other hand, wants things to continue as they are.

(03-23-2021 08:00 AM)banker Wrote:  Where I live in Ohio, schools have been full opened this entire school year. Our local infection rates are no better or worse than anywhere else that is similar is size or population density. Closing schools for the 20-21 school year would be one thing I consider a huge miscalculation and the worst call by any local/state government. Especially since even the CDC doesn’t support it.

The Norfolk public schools are only now just pretending to reopen - - thanks to the grasping, selfish power of the V.E.A. and local branches of these pseudo unions.

Meanwhile, private and parochial schools have been open for months, with no measurable difference in infection rates.

(03-23-2021 07:05 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Just one slight problem. This isn't a "report" or some scientific study. It's an opinion piece based upon a bunch of articles the author interspersed.

It's still likely too early to write any definitive report on the pandemic. Additionally, it's near impossible to predict what having no lockdowns would result in, in America. We seem to have a propensity to do things like Spring Break last weekend, etc.

There are similar articles that completely counter what your article reports...here is one such article:

Quote:Some posts on the issue of lockdowns are missing context, and some present information that is contradicted by international studies. While it is true that more restrictive measures that aim to control the spread of SARS-CoV-2 can have an impact in income and mental health, multiple studies suggest that stay-at-home orders and other nonpharmaceutical interventions have a determining role in reducing the transmission of the virus. Experts highlight that a more “targeted” approach rather than a “nationwide” lockdown, can limit the impact of the pandemic while balancing other economic, mental health and social concerns.

Fact check: Studies show COVID-19 lockdowns have saved lives

City Journal is a think tank and a pretty good one. They are a standard deviation higher in quality, ethics, and using data to form an opinion than every mainstream "news" outlet there is.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using CSNbbs mobile app

(03-23-2021 08:00 AM)banker Wrote:  Where I live in Ohio, schools have been full opened this entire school year. Our local infection rates are no better or worse than anywhere else that is similar is size or population density. Closing schools for the 20-21 school year would be one thing I consider a huge miscalculation and the worst call by any local/state government. Especially since even the CDC doesn’t support it.

Agree. Our county has had schools open all year as well.

(03-23-2021 08:07 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 07:22 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 07:14 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  RWT, you've made absolutely fair points. None of us can definitively say what would have happened if we as a nation had acted differently. Perhaps a total lockdown, in which party-happy youths could somehow have been kept in incubation, would have prevented the spread of the disease. Or perhaps a steadfast refusal to lockdown at all would have brought us to herd immunity much more quickly. We'll never know, because those are not the paths we chose.

But it is today only the progressives are the ones who are still insisting on authoritarian measures - - without any scientific basis to support those policies. When history is written, that fascist elf Fauci will go down as one of the real villains of our generation. And both Presidents Trump and Biden as the biggest dupes.

Shutting down business and schools has been overwhelmingly been local decisions, governors, mayors, councils, school boards etc. In the last stimulus spending bill my city/counties got, Greater Cincinnati, got 900 Million. So even if local leaders are pro open business they have to be publicly quasi we need some safe Covid measures blah blah blah.

And the reason they were local decisions is because Trump refused to play dictator, even though the left had been calling him that his entire term in office.

Again, another projection of what they are in an attempt to hide what they are.

Biden, on the other hand, wants things to continue as they are.

Pretend all you want, but President Trump cocked up the coronavirus response - - and it is at least in part what lost him the election.

During the early part of the pandemic he did exactly what he should have. He shut down international travel well ahead of others, despite the cries of xenophobia from the opportunistic liars on the left. He properly deferred to Dr. Fauci on the early response, because that was the best information available at the time. And, yes, you are correct, he properly allowed this to be handled on the local level - - although thousands of elderly in New York State turned out to be worse off for it. #cuomocide.

The problem came after the initial response, when it was apparent that lockdowns had become political tools. President Trump could have stood up to that. He didn't. That's on him.

(03-23-2021 08:26 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  Pretend all you want, but President Trump cocked up the coronavirus response - - and it is at least in part what lost him the election.

During the early part of the pandemic he did exactly what he should have. He shut down international travel well ahead of others, despite the cries of xenophobia from the opportunistic liars on the left. He properly deferred to Dr. Fauci on the early response, because that was the best information available at the time. And, yes, you are correct, he properly allowed this to be handled on the local level - - although thousands of elderly in New York State turned out to be worse off for it. #cuomocide.

The problem came after the initial response, when it was apparent that lockdowns had become political tools. President Trump could have stood up to that. He didn't. That's on him.

SPOT ON - especially in bold

+2

(03-23-2021 08:26 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 08:07 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 07:22 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 07:14 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  RWT, you've made absolutely fair points. None of us can definitively say what would have happened if we as a nation had acted differently. Perhaps a total lockdown, in which party-happy youths could somehow have been kept in incubation, would have prevented the spread of the disease. Or perhaps a steadfast refusal to lockdown at all would have brought us to herd immunity much more quickly. We'll never know, because those are not the paths we chose.

But it is today only the progressives are the ones who are still insisting on authoritarian measures - - without any scientific basis to support those policies. When history is written, that fascist elf Fauci will go down as one of the real villains of our generation. And both Presidents Trump and Biden as the biggest dupes.

Shutting down business and schools has been overwhelmingly been local decisions, governors, mayors, councils, school boards etc. In the last stimulus spending bill my city/counties got, Greater Cincinnati, got 900 Million. So even if local leaders are pro open business they have to be publicly quasi we need some safe Covid measures blah blah blah.

And the reason they were local decisions is because Trump refused to play dictator, even though the left had been calling him that his entire term in office.

Again, another projection of what they are in an attempt to hide what they are.

Biden, on the other hand, wants things to continue as they are.

Pretend all you want, but President Trump cocked up the coronavirus response - - and it is at least in part what lost him the election.

During the early part of the pandemic he did exactly what he should have. He shut down international travel well ahead of others, despite the cries of xenophobia from the opportunistic liars on the left. He properly deferred to Dr. Fauci on the early response, because that was the best information available at the time. And, yes, you are correct, he properly allowed this to be handled on the local level - - although thousands of elderly in New York State turned out to be worse off for it. #cuomocide.

The problem came after the initial response, when it was apparent that lockdowns had become political tools. President Trump could have stood up to that. He didn't. That's on him.

What cost him the election was rampant cheating by democrats -- which, now that Biden has been installed, is starting to be recognized and confirmed by various state courts.

The "there was no fraud" lies is not only being exposed, it has also been admitted to. Remember the Time article about "fortifying" the election?

Lockdowns don't work. Masks don't work. Open the F back up. Wear a mask if you want. Take the vaccine if you want. If you don't want to... don't. It is simple. This totalitarian crap has got to stop.

(03-23-2021 08:32 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  What cost him the election was rampant cheating by democrats -- which, now that Biden has been installed, is starting to be recognized and confirmed by various state courts.

The "there was no fraud" lies is not only being exposed, it has also been admitted to. Remember the Time article about "fortifying" the election?

It may be semantics, but lets say the dems really did in fact cheat (this is rhetorical Tom, don't get your panties in a bunch). Trump allowed the race to be close enough for it to be "stolen" in the first place - THAT is the problem.

This election should have been a Trump curb stomp - and the only reason is was "stealable" was due to Trump's follow up actions as IMO accurately described by Monarch.

(03-23-2021 08:34 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Lockdowns don't work. Masks don't work. Open the F back up. Wear a mask if you want. Take the vaccine if you want. If you don't want to... don't. It is simple. This totalitarian crap has got to stop.

I would suggest you not visit Oregon then

(03-23-2021 08:39 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 08:32 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  What cost him the election was rampant cheating by democrats -- which, now that Biden has been installed, is starting to be recognized and confirmed by various state courts.

The "there was no fraud" lies is not only being exposed, it has also been admitted to. Remember the Time article about "fortifying" the election?

It may be semantics, but lets say the dems really did in fact cheat (this is rhetorical Tom, don't get your panties in a bunch). Trump allowed the race to be close enough for it to be "stolen" in the first place - THAT is the problem.

This election should have been a Trump curb stomp - and the only reason is was "stealable" was due to Trump's follow up actions as IMO accurately described by Monarch.

Exactly right.

(03-23-2021 08:26 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 08:07 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 07:22 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 07:14 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  RWT, you've made absolutely fair points. None of us can definitively say what would have happened if we as a nation had acted differently. Perhaps a total lockdown, in which party-happy youths could somehow have been kept in incubation, would have prevented the spread of the disease. Or perhaps a steadfast refusal to lockdown at all would have brought us to herd immunity much more quickly. We'll never know, because those are not the paths we chose.

But it is today only the progressives are the ones who are still insisting on authoritarian measures - - without any scientific basis to support those policies. When history is written, that fascist elf Fauci will go down as one of the real villains of our generation. And both Presidents Trump and Biden as the biggest dupes.

Shutting down business and schools has been overwhelmingly been local decisions, governors, mayors, councils, school boards etc. In the last stimulus spending bill my city/counties got, Greater Cincinnati, got 900 Million. So even if local leaders are pro open business they have to be publicly quasi we need some safe Covid measures blah blah blah.

And the reason they were local decisions is because Trump refused to play dictator, even though the left had been calling him that his entire term in office.

Again, another projection of what they are in an attempt to hide what they are.

Biden, on the other hand, wants things to continue as they are.

Pretend all you want, but President Trump cocked up the coronavirus response - - and it is at least in part what lost him the election.

During the early part of the pandemic he did exactly what he should have. He shut down international travel well ahead of others, despite the cries of xenophobia from the opportunistic liars on the left. He properly deferred to Dr. Fauci on the early response, because that was the best information available at the time. And, yes, you are correct, he properly allowed this to be handled on the local level - - although thousands of elderly in New York State turned out to be worse off for it. #cuomocide.

The problem came after the initial response, when it was apparent that lockdowns had become political tools. President Trump could have stood up to that. He didn't. That's on him.

Bullshite

(03-23-2021 09:03 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 08:26 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 08:07 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 07:22 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 07:14 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  RWT, you've made absolutely fair points. None of us can definitively say what would have happened if we as a nation had acted differently. Perhaps a total lockdown, in which party-happy youths could somehow have been kept in incubation, would have prevented the spread of the disease. Or perhaps a steadfast refusal to lockdown at all would have brought us to herd immunity much more quickly. We'll never know, because those are not the paths we chose.

But it is today only the progressives are the ones who are still insisting on authoritarian measures - - without any scientific basis to support those policies. When history is written, that fascist elf Fauci will go down as one of the real villains of our generation. And both Presidents Trump and Biden as the biggest dupes.

Shutting down business and schools has been overwhelmingly been local decisions, governors, mayors, councils, school boards etc. In the last stimulus spending bill my city/counties got, Greater Cincinnati, got 900 Million. So even if local leaders are pro open business they have to be publicly quasi we need some safe Covid measures blah blah blah.

And the reason they were local decisions is because Trump refused to play dictator, even though the left had been calling him that his entire term in office.

Again, another projection of what they are in an attempt to hide what they are.

Biden, on the other hand, wants things to continue as they are.

Pretend all you want, but President Trump cocked up the coronavirus response - - and it is at least in part what lost him the election.

During the early part of the pandemic he did exactly what he should have. He shut down international travel well ahead of others, despite the cries of xenophobia from the opportunistic liars on the left. He properly deferred to Dr. Fauci on the early response, because that was the best information available at the time. And, yes, you are correct, he properly allowed this to be handled on the local level - - although thousands of elderly in New York State turned out to be worse off for it. #cuomocide.

The problem came after the initial response, when it was apparent that lockdowns had become political tools. President Trump could have stood up to that. He didn't. That's on him.

Bullshite

I presented a similar comment in another thread and you made a similar response. You did not really elaborate why you are calling BS..... can you elaborate?

Everyone that isn't a libtard idiot already knew this.

(03-23-2021 08:18 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(03-23-2021 07:05 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Just one slight problem. This isn't a "report" or some scientific study. It's an opinion piece based upon a bunch of articles the author interspersed.

It's still likely too early to write any definitive report on the pandemic. Additionally, it's near impossible to predict what having no lockdowns would result in, in America. We seem to have a propensity to do things like Spring Break last weekend, etc.

There are similar articles that completely counter what your article reports...here is one such article:

Quote:Some posts on the issue of lockdowns are missing context, and some present information that is contradicted by international studies. While it is true that more restrictive measures that aim to control the spread of SARS-CoV-2 can have an impact in income and mental health, multiple studies suggest that stay-at-home orders and other nonpharmaceutical interventions have a determining role in reducing the transmission of the virus. Experts highlight that a more “targeted” approach rather than a “nationwide” lockdown, can limit the impact of the pandemic while balancing other economic, mental health and social concerns.

Fact check: Studies show COVID-19 lockdowns have saved lives

City Journal is a think tank and a pretty good one. They are a standard deviation higher in quality, ethics, and using data to form an opinion that every mainstream "news" outlet there is.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using CSNbbs mobile app

Maybe so, but as I stated, this is not a scientific "report" as the OP intimates.