Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
What is the future of the Southland Conference?
Author Message
AZcats Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,345
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 102
I Root For: stAte, af, zona
Location: Pike's Peak
Post: #221
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference?
(06-09-2021 12:15 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 11:23 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 08:02 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 05:44 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 05:40 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  There is more to It than simply adding a men’s sport. In addition to however many scholarships are needed for the new sport, an additional three dozen scholarships are required to jump up to FBS. Adding 50 or so new men’s scholarships creates a gender imbalance and Title IX problems that would likely require new women’s sports opportunities to remain in compliance.

Who says anything about jumping to FBS?

Yes, more scholarships would be needed to compete at FCS (same as any other D2 move up). And the admission fee, etc.

But solely adding a men's sport (like Cross-Country) isn't a big expense compared to all of the other costs to move up a level.

Insert FCS in my previous comment and remove FBS. The jump to FCS from D2 requires upping scholarships from 36 to 62. Add a new men’s sport into the mix such as cross country (another 12.5 scholarships) and the imbalance grows.


You are missing the point. The StuRay's original claim was that MSU couldn't upgrade (vs any other DII) because they lacked 6 men's sports.

My reply was that really isn't a big deal, since you could add a cheap men's sports.

The other costs that you mention would apply to ANY DII move-up, not just MSU.

But the argument did kick over a rock that some of us haven't thought of--we're (ahem, I'm) pulling up Lone Star Conference maps on wikipedia, maybe taking a quick look at enrollment numbers, and saying "I guess the Southland takes A&M Kingsville and A&M Commerce to shore up football." EDIT: And, furthermore, that 3 openings in the WAC and Southland make the Lone Star (football) Conference unstable, which means West Texas A&M pretty much has to make a move. (And WTA&M would pick the WAC)

But what Stugray (I think) is saying, maybe too concisely, is that most Division II schools aren't in the position that West Texas A&M is or (I assume) Tarleton State and Dixie State were a couple of years ago, where they wer 80 or 90% prepared for Division I, mostly just lacking an invite.

Is that about right? When Dixie State and Tarleton State were invited, did they have to add a couple of sports, in addition to adding scholarships and everything else?

I'll try to explain better. When I am looking for schools to potentially move to D2 the first thing I examine is how many and what sports they sponsor. If they don't meet NCAA and D2 requirements I remove them from the list. Then I look at enrollment and location to help determine the best conference fit.

D1 requires more sports sponsored by a school than D2. As of now, only in terms of the breakdown of number of sports sponsored, Midwestern State is one of about 100 D2 schools who are not eligible for D1. Sure, MSU can easily add a sport but that is just step one; step two would be all that needs to be done for a potential D1 move.

When Dixie State and Tarleton State received their WAC invitations, DSU already had 6m/9w sports and TSU already had 6m/8w sports. So both schools met the D1 requirement of sponsoring at least 7/7 or 6m/8w sports. TSU has since added women's soccer.

Of course there is a lot more involved in moving to a different division, most relating to finances, but in my view the sports sponsored is a basic requirement that needs to be met first. This is the reason I was stunned by the D2 Peach Belt Conference inviting South Carolina-Beaufort to join from the NAIA. USCB sponsors the right number of sports and they participate in all three seasons for both genders but they have only 1 men's team sport. They will need to add a men's team sport (basketball) before they can join the NCAA.
06-09-2021 03:33 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BullsFanInTX Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,456
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 238
I Root For: USF
Location:
Post: #222
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference?
Haha. Midwestern State can easily add a sport or two. Not a biggie. Their stadium seats 15K. They are competitive in the LSC, and as a former resident of Wichita Falls, I would like to see it. They are just as good of an option as anyone.
06-09-2021 08:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 24,408
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 790
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #223
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference?
If it were 2010 or so I’d say Arkansas Tech and Harding (Ark) would be possibles.

Both were saber rattling about Division I, supposedly Harding was shopping a hoops league and thinking Pioneer for football and had some conversations with Southland but the SLC was seeking someone to play football and at the time Harding couldn’t afford to play 63 scholarship football.

With the GAC forming I think both are content.
06-09-2021 10:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SMUstang Online
All American
*

Posts: 2,553
Joined: Jan 2004
Reputation: 162
I Root For: SMU Mustangs
Location: Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Post: #224
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference?
In my opinion the Southland will go for Commerce and Kingsville. JMO
06-10-2021 08:40 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,305
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 267
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location: Top of Mt Rushmore
Post: #225
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference?
(06-10-2021 08:40 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  In my opinion the Southland will go for Commerce and Kingsville. JMO

Seems reasonable. Wouldn’t they prefer the WAC if they were going to come up?
06-10-2021 08:48 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SMUstang Online
All American
*

Posts: 2,553
Joined: Jan 2004
Reputation: 162
I Root For: SMU Mustangs
Location: Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Post: #226
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference?
(06-10-2021 08:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 08:40 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  In my opinion the Southland will go for Commerce and Kingsville. JMO

Seems reasonable. Wouldn’t they prefer the WAC if they were going to come up?

Possibly but I think the WAC would prefer WTAMU and they only have room for one. JMO
06-10-2021 08:54 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
AZcats Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,345
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 102
I Root For: stAte, af, zona
Location: Pike's Peak
Post: #227
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference?
(06-09-2021 10:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  If it were 2010 or so I’d say Arkansas Tech and Harding (Ark) would be possibles.

Both were saber rattling about Division I, supposedly Harding was shopping a hoops league and thinking Pioneer for football and had some conversations with Southland but the SLC was seeking someone to play football and at the time Harding couldn’t afford to play 63 scholarship football.

With the GAC forming I think both are content.

Not really possible in 2010.

There might have been a little extra noise from Harding but it all died quickly. Harding was and still is today in a better position for D1 than Tech. One reason the GAC was formed was to reduce travel and missed class time, that goal would not be accomplished in the Southland and maybe worse than the Gulf South. Also at that time Tech would have to add 2 men and at least 3 women sports to meet D1 requirements and satisfy T9 at substantial costs and a decade later we still don't have the facilities and staffing for those sports. We did add women's outdoor track for Spring 2020 competing in running and long jumping events.

Yes, we are quite content in D2 and the GAC. We just won our first NCAA title, something that would never happen in D1.
06-10-2021 11:23 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 24,408
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 790
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #228
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference?
(06-10-2021 11:23 AM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 10:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  If it were 2010 or so I’d say Arkansas Tech and Harding (Ark) would be possibles.

Both were saber rattling about Division I, supposedly Harding was shopping a hoops league and thinking Pioneer for football and had some conversations with Southland but the SLC was seeking someone to play football and at the time Harding couldn’t afford to play 63 scholarship football.

With the GAC forming I think both are content.

Not really possible in 2010.

There might have been a little extra noise from Harding but it all died quickly. Harding was and still is today in a better position for D1 than Tech. One reason the GAC was formed was to reduce travel and missed class time, that goal would not be accomplished in the Southland and maybe worse than the Gulf South. Also at that time Tech would have to add 2 men and at least 3 women sports to meet D1 requirements and satisfy T9 at substantial costs and a decade later we still don't have the facilities and staffing for those sports. We did add women's outdoor track for Spring 2020 competing in running and long jumping events.

Yes, we are quite content in D2 and the GAC. We just won our first NCAA title, something that would never happen in D1.

I suspect or rather suspected the discontent with Gulf South coupled with losing the UCA rivalry to Division I spurred the talk.
Yesterday 11:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
AZcats Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,345
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 102
I Root For: stAte, af, zona
Location: Pike's Peak
Post: #229
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference?
(Yesterday 11:04 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 11:23 AM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 10:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  If it were 2010 or so I’d say Arkansas Tech and Harding (Ark) would be possibles.

Both were saber rattling about Division I, supposedly Harding was shopping a hoops league and thinking Pioneer for football and had some conversations with Southland but the SLC was seeking someone to play football and at the time Harding couldn’t afford to play 63 scholarship football.

With the GAC forming I think both are content.

Not really possible in 2010.

There might have been a little extra noise from Harding but it all died quickly. Harding was and still is today in a better position for D1 than Tech. One reason the GAC was formed was to reduce travel and missed class time, that goal would not be accomplished in the Southland and maybe worse than the Gulf South. Also at that time Tech would have to add 2 men and at least 3 women sports to meet D1 requirements and satisfy T9 at substantial costs and a decade later we still don't have the facilities and staffing for those sports. We did add women's outdoor track for Spring 2020 competing in running and long jumping events.

Yes, we are quite content in D2 and the GAC. We just won our first NCAA title, something that would never happen in D1.

I suspect or rather suspected the discontent with Gulf South coupled with losing the UCA rivalry to Division I spurred the talk.

Yeah, it was disappointing to lose that rival but by the time the GAC was formed it had already been 5 years since they left and we had moved on. Once you start looking at the costs of adding 5 sports then increasing funding for current sports and all the other costs associated with the move it doesn't take long to see you are looking at a very possible negative return on investment. Don't need to pay for a study to tell you that.
Today 12:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: DoubleRSU, 6 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2021 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2021 MyBB Group.