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AppinSC Offline
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Post: #461
RE: Expansion question
(04-08-2021 06:53 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(04-07-2021 10:14 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-07-2021 11:49 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  More than half the AAC had as many or more 800K+ viewer games than Appalachian State.

True, the data could be described that way, but -

It would be equally accurate to summarize the findings this way:

Appalachian State had as many - or more - 800K+ viewer games than 9 of the 11 AAC teams.


But let's do the comparisons based on the viewership averages (arithmetic means and medians):

.

Quote:...looking at averages: regular season and bowls the AAC averaged 1.257 million viewers per rated game...more than the most-viewed Appalachian State game.


Not according to my computations[/size][/color], based on the data reported at
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/

Cincy:......2.06 million (data available for 8 games)
Navy:.......1.58 million (data available for 6 games)
UCF:........1.29 million (data available for 8 games)
Memphis:..1.08 million (data available for 6 games)
Houston:...1.02 million (data available for 5 games)
Tulsa:.......1.01 million (data available for 8 games)
USF:.........0.68 million (data available for 3 games)
Tulane:.....0.64 million (data available for 6 games)
ECU:........0.58 million (data available for 3 games)
SMU:........0.56 million (data available for 3 games)
Temple.....No viewership data (therefore, not included in computations)

Average per school in 2020 (computed as the median & arithmetic mean of the mean viewership of the AAC teams):

Median:*.................1.05 million (mid-point; 50th percentile)

Arithmetic mean:^....1.06 million


*The median of the mean viewerships of the AAC teams.

^The arithmetic mean of the mean viewerships of the AAC teams.

.

The only way to obtain an arithmetic mean of 1.257 million viewers would be to divide the grand total of all reported 2020 AAC FB viewership by the total number of AAC schools.

However, that wouldn't have been an appropriate way to compute the mean, due to a violation of the requirement and statistical assumption that each school had data available from an equal number of games.

The fact that some schools had data from 8 games, while others had data from only 3 or 6 games represents what is known as a statistical confound. Another term for this type of problem is statistical "incommensurability".

A "mean" based on unequal numbers of games would be "meaningless," since it would be based on an essentially "apples to oranges" type of comparison, resulting in an estimate that should be assumed to have inadvertently over-weighted the data from teams that had data reported for 8 games.

.

Quote:Three different AAC teams (Cincinnati, Navy, and UCF) by themselves averaged more viewers per rated game than the most-viewed Appalachian State game.

That is true. For example, UCF's average viewership (1.29 million), based on the arithmetic mean was higher than Appalachian State's highest reported viewership (1.25 million).

However, I did not attempt to make the claim that App State's viewership was higher than the viewership of the top 3 AAC teams.

What I wrote was that, based on the number of 800,000+ viewership games, App State's viewership sufficient to match that of most AAC teams. The data based on the number of 800,000+ viewership games supported that statement.

But let's proceed to take your suggestion to a deeper dive into the data and conduct a more comprehensive examination.


Quote:Ratings and viewership numbers actually show that Appalachian State would be in the bottom of the AAC.

My computations indicate that this statement is inaccurate, with respect to both mean and median viewership

Appalachian State's mean viewership of 785,000 viewers per game in 2020 was greater than that of five AAC teams: SMU, Tulane, USF, ECU, and Temple.

Median viewership for each team (mid-point; 50th percentile):*

#1 UCF:........1,274,000 (data available for 8 games)
#2 Cincy:......1,200,000 (data available for 8 games)
#3 Navy:.......1,150,000 (data available for 6 games)
#4 Houston:...1,160,000 (data available for 5 games)
#5 Memphis:..758,468 (data available for 6 games)
#6 App St......742,000 (data available for 6 games)
#7 USF:.........561,000 (data available for 3 games)
#8 Tulsa:.......546,500 (data available for 8 games)
#9 Tulane:.....524,000 (data available for 6 games)
#10 ECU:........525,500 (data available for 4 games)
#11 SMU:........400,500 (data available for 3 games)
......Temple.....No viewership data (therefore, not included in computations)

Appalachian State's median viewership, based on available data, was higher than (#24) Tulsa's viewership, and nearly as high as Memphis's viewership in 2020.

*NOTE: If a team has data for 3 games, the median is the viewership for the game that had the second-highest viewership. If a team has data for 8 games, the reported median is the mid-point of the games with the 4th and 5th highest viewership for that team.

Quote:Any proposed addition that would drag down our metrics is not a value-add proposition.

All of us on the board except the George State and GSU fans seem to agree on that point, but the inference that that App State 2020 football viewership of 750,000 per game would have been a significant "drag" on the conference's metrics is not justified by the reported viewership data.

With a median viewership exceeding that of (#24) Tulsa and nearly matching that of Memphis, Appalachian State's viewership can not accurately be described as having been less than that a middle of the pack AAC team.

.
Almost none of your means or medians check out.
Specifically, your computations for Appalachian State mean viewership and median viewership.

From your very own post #354:
Week 2: App St. vs. Charlotte 408,000 viewers
Week 3: App St. vs. Marshall 1.25 million viewers
Week 9: App St. vs. Arkansas St. 384,000 viewers
Week 12: App St. vs. Coastal Carolina 848,000 viewers
Week 13: App St. vs. Troy viewers 173,000 viewers
Week 14: App St. vs. Louisiana 1.01 million viewers
Bowl: App St. vs. North Texas State 637,000 viewers

Regular season: 4.073 million viewers; average viewers per rated game: 679k; median game viewership 628k
Reg. season and bowl: 4.710 million viewers; average viewers per rated game: 673k; median game viewership 637k

Looks like you omitted the lowest-viewed game, the 173k watching Troy at Appalachian State at 3:30 on Thanksgiving Saturday when you computated.

Total viewers regular season (incl CCG)
1. Navy 8.313 million
2. UCF 8.798 million
3. Cincinnati 7.814 million
4. Tulsa 6.176 million
5. Memphis 4.163 million
6. Tulane 4.162 million
App State 4.073 million
7. Houston 3.207 million
8. SMU 3.363 million
9. ECU 2.310 million
10. USF 2.047 million
11. Temple 0

Average viewers per rated game in regular season (incl CCG)
1. Navy 1.385 million
2. UCF 1.257 million
3. Cincinnati 1.116 million
4. Memphis 833k
5. Houston 802k
6. Tulsa 772k
7. USF 682k
App State 679k
8. Tulane 595k
9. ECU 578k
10. SMU 561k
11. Temple 0

Total viewers, reg season, CCG, and Bowls
1. Cincinnati 16.544 million
2. UCF 10.298 million
3. Tulsa 8.426 million
4. Navy 8.313 million
5. Memphis 5.433 million
6. Houston 5.107 million
7. Tulane 5.076 million
App State 4.710 million
8. SMU 3.363 million
9. ECU 2.310 million
10. USF 2.047 million
11. Temple 0

Average viewers per rated game, regular season, CCG, and Bowl
1. Cincinnati 2.068 million
2. Navy 1.385 million
3. UCF 1.287 million
4. Houston 1.021 million
5. Tulsa 936k
6. Memphis 905k
7. USF 682k
App State 679k
8. Tulane 635k
9. ECU 578k
10. SMU 561k
11. Temple 0

Looks like you were questioning the overall AAC averages?
For the regular season (and CCG) AAC had 33,697,000 viewers over 34 rated games. Average viewers per rated game 991,088.
Six bowl games brought that to 50,261,000 viewers. Over 40 games (including regular season, CCG, and bowls) 1,256,525 average viewers per rated game. (That number is greater than the viewership of Appalachian State's most viewed game, the much-anticipated G4 battle when the Mountaineers visited Marshall.)


I hadn't previously done medians, but your numbers look wrong, so here it goes. From the game counts you listed, it looks like you were inconsistent betweeen using regular season only or adding bowls. Maybe more are the with bowl game count...

Median game viewership, regular season and bowl games:
1. UCF 1.249 million
2. Cincinnati 1.235 million
3. Houston 1.16 million*
4. Memphis 855k
5. Navy 787k
App State 637k
6. USF 561k*
7. Tulsa 532k **
8. ECU 525.5k *
9. Tulane 524k ***
10. SMU 400.0k ****
11. Temple 0

* This is a number Jed actually got right! Congrats! Gold Star Sticker!
** Tulsa had nine games, not Jed's count of eight.
*** Tulane had eight games, Jed only wanted to count six. But he somehow got the right answer...
**** SMU had six games, not three. Jed got tantalizingly close to the right answer for median anyway, but no sticker, sorry.

Let's go back to the opening line of post #357
Quote:Well, actually, Jed, the very numbers you are touting show that App State's TV appeal is generously described as middle of the pack in the AAC, and really is behind middle of the pack when you break it down.

By the game count above the JedNumber of 800k viewers, App State would be in a five-way tie for third to seventh. Middle of the pack.
By median game viewership (regular season and bowls) would be sixth. Middle of the pack.
Total viewers regular season - seventh. Middle of the pack to below middle of the pack.
Average viewers per rated game, regular season - eighth. Below middle of the pack.
Total viewers regular season and bowls - eighth. Below middle of the pack.
Average viewers per rated game, regular season and bowls - eighth. Below middle of the pack.

Ok then, let's just swap out ECU and Tulane for App and Louisiana and call it a day. 04-cheers
04-14-2021 06:52 AM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #462
RE: Expansion question
I don't have an opinion on others' opinions on App's sports or the membership of their conference, but calling App State academics lousy is full blown retarded.

App isn't a national university because that's not the mission of the school. We are to serve western NC. App is rated a top 3 public schools in the South. Top 10 overall in the South. And #1 Most innovative school in the South.

App doesn't align with the AAC on most fronts. Neither does ECU. Glad our Athletic department wasn't devastated by a conference move like theirs. We joined peers and it made everyone in the conference better.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2021 08:32 AM by Yosef Himself.)
04-14-2021 08:30 AM
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jedclampett Online
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Post: #463
RE: Expansion question
.

Median 2020 viewership:

1. UCF 1.249 million
2. Cincinnati 1.235 million
3. Houston 1.16 million
4. Memphis 855k
5. Navy 787k
Appalachian State 637k
6. USF 561k
7. Tulsa 532k
8. ECU 525.5k
9. Tulane 524k
10. SMU 400.0k
11. Temple 0

......................................................................................................

Appalachian State FB had AAC-quality viewership in 2020.

......................................................................................................

If Appalachian State had played the high-viewership AAC teams, such as Cincy, UCF, Memphis, Navy, and Houston, their viewership would have been significantly higher, making them one of the upper-echelon AAC teams with respect to FB viewership.

......................................................................................................

.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2021 08:39 AM by jedclampett.)
04-14-2021 08:32 AM
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DeeHee33 Offline
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Post: #464
RE: Expansion question
(04-14-2021 08:32 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  .

Median 2020 viewership:

1. UCF 1.249 million
2. Cincinnati 1.235 million
3. Houston 1.16 million
4. Memphis 855k
5. Navy 787k
Appalachian State 637k
6. USF 561k
7. Tulsa 532k
8. ECU 525.5k
9. Tulane 524k
10. SMU 400.0k
11. Temple 0

......................................................................................................

Appalachian State FB had AAC-quality viewership in 2020.

......................................................................................................

If Appalachian State had played the high-viewership AAC teams, such as Cincy, UCF, Memphis, Navy, and Houston, their viewership would have been significantly higher, making them one of the upper-echelon AAC teams with respect to FB viewership.

......................................................................................................

.
Just curious ? What airport would a team use to get to App State? It just seems like App State, UAB, VCU and Georgia State fans are asking for the AAC conference to throw them a bone to help out there programs ? It doesnt work like that ! Do you know what a Big 12 invite would do for UCF, Houston, Memphis, USF, Cincinatti, SMU programs ? 01-wingedeagle
04-14-2021 10:18 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #465
RE: Expansion question
(04-14-2021 08:30 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  I don't have an opinion on others' opinions on App's sports or the membership of their conference, but calling App State academics lousy is full blown retarded.

App isn't a national university because that's not the mission of the school. We are to serve western NC. App is rated a top 3 public schools in the South. Top 10 overall in the South. And #1 Most innovative school in the South.

App doesn't align with the AAC on most fronts. Neither does ECU. Glad our Athletic department wasn't devastated by a conference move like theirs. We joined peers and it made everyone in the conference better.

Id suggest that part about ECU is incorrect. Yes---ECU is not located in a large city----but ECU actually IS a national university (per USNWR) and until the last year or so---it was actually a USNWR top 200 ranked university. Nearly all of the AAC schools are USNWR top 200 schools (Memphis and Wichita are the other two that are not in the top 200). Not sure why ECU fell out of the top 200, but--hopefully it will return to the top 200 soon. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2021 10:40 AM by Attackcoog.)
04-14-2021 10:30 AM
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geosnooker2000 Offline
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Post: #466
RE: Expansion question
(04-14-2021 08:32 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  .

Median 2020 viewership:

1. UCF 1.249 million
2. Cincinnati 1.235 million
3. Houston 1.16 million
4. Memphis 855k
5. Navy 787k
Appalachian State 637k
6. USF 561k
7. Tulsa 532k
8. ECU 525.5k
9. Tulane 524k
10. SMU 400.0k
11. Temple 0

......................................................................................................

Appalachian State FB had AAC-quality viewership in 2020.

......................................................................................................

If Appalachian State had played the high-viewership AAC teams, such as Cincy, UCF, Memphis, Navy, and Houston, their viewership would have been significantly higher, making them one of the upper-echelon AAC teams with respect to FB viewership.

......................................................................................................

.

As we have said time and time again, and as Commissioner Aresco has said as well, we are not looking to add to the bottom or even the middle of the conference. We are looking to add to the TOP of the conference. Compare Boise's viewership to App State over the same time period. Boise doesn't play "the high-viewership AAC teams, such as Cincy, UCF, Memphis, Navy, and Houston" either. In 2019, they averaged 800K per game (with a high of 1.4MM vs....... MARSHALL), all with crappier west-coast time slots.
04-14-2021 11:51 AM
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