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Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #21
Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
Not sure you can count the standings this year as a metric. We would have had the opportunity to get a top 4 in a normal year. We didn’t play the top 2 teams n the regular season. In a normal year we would have had a game against LT and probably 2 against UNT. In a pandemic year, the 2 games that were canceled and not rescheduled were against UNT. If we played them and won whatever percentage needed we would have gotten the bye. If we got swept we would have dropped to at least 5th if not lower.


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03-22-2021 07:00 AM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
Calling us a top 4 team because we got a bye due to being the #2 team in the East is incredibly disingenuous and borderline lazy assessment.
03-22-2021 07:53 AM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 07:53 AM)odu09 Wrote:  Calling us a top 4 team because we got a bye due to being the #2 team in the East is incredibly disingenuous and borderline lazy assessment.

And saying Marshall and NT would have definitely won more games than ODU if they had played more games is what exactly.

The series NT had cancelled was against ODU and WKU. Since they had as many losses as ODU, playing 2 fewer games, one would need to assume they would have to sweep ODU, something that didn’t happen all year even when ODU played without the top two scorers. Or they would need to split with ODU and sweep WKU, something that didn’t happen all season.

Marshall had as many losses as ODU as well. Their series against Rice was cancelled. Do they sweep Rice at Rice? Maybe, but they did lose to Rice in the conference tournament. So let’s assume they split that series, guess who ends up with a better record?
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2021 08:11 AM by ODUDrunkard13.)
03-22-2021 08:10 AM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 08:10 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 07:53 AM)odu09 Wrote:  Calling us a top 4 team because we got a bye due to being the #2 team in the East is incredibly disingenuous and borderline lazy assessment.

And saying Marshall and NT would have definitely won more games than ODU if they had played more games is what exactly.

The series NT had cancelled was against ODU and WKU. Since they had as many losses as us, playing 2 fewer games, one would need to assume they would have to sweep ODU, something that didn’t happen all year even when we played without the top two scorers. Or they would need to split with us and sweep WKU, something that didn’t happen all season.

Marshall had as many losses as us as well. Their series against Rice was cancelled. Do they sweep Rice at Rice? Maybe, but they did lose to Rice in the conference tournament. So let’s assume they split that series, guess who ends up with a better record?

Why go through this exercise of trying to figure out who would win what when you can just look at the advanced metrics of each team and see which teams were better than others based on their regular season performance?

We are just going to say 'yippe, we were a top 4 team this year' because we got a bye in an incomplete season? I mean, go for it.
03-22-2021 08:12 AM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 08:12 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 08:10 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 07:53 AM)odu09 Wrote:  Calling us a top 4 team because we got a bye due to being the #2 team in the East is incredibly disingenuous and borderline lazy assessment.

And saying Marshall and NT would have definitely won more games than ODU if they had played more games is what exactly.

The series NT had cancelled was against ODU and WKU. Since they had as many losses as us, playing 2 fewer games, one would need to assume they would have to sweep ODU, something that didn’t happen all year even when we played without the top two scorers. Or they would need to split with us and sweep WKU, something that didn’t happen all season.

Marshall had as many losses as us as well. Their series against Rice was cancelled. Do they sweep Rice at Rice? Maybe, but they did lose to Rice in the conference tournament. So let’s assume they split that series, guess who ends up with a better record?

Why go through this exercise of trying to figure out who would win what when you can just look at the advanced metrics of each team and see which teams were better than others based on their regular season performance?

We are just going to say 'yippe, we were a top 4 team this year' because we got a bye in an incomplete season? I mean, go for it.

I’m not happy with this season at all. But monarx claimed we weren’t a top 4 team and used standings and cancelled games as his support. If he used advanced metrics as the main part of his theory, we’d be having a different discussion.
03-22-2021 08:17 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-21-2021 06:46 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(03-21-2021 05:29 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(03-21-2021 02:06 PM)ODUMONARCHZ1 Wrote:  
(03-21-2021 01:38 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(03-21-2021 01:33 PM)monarx Wrote:  We weren’t top 4 this year either.

So why’d we get that tournament bye that went to only 4 teams?
We were top 4 based on how divisions were split but I think on a regular season with no divisions, we probably would've been a 5th seed IMO.

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Thats how I see it. We were second in the east, but other than WKU, the other top 3 were in the west. Because of COVID, they changed the rules, and the byes went to the top 2 seeds in each division, not overall. As a result, we got a bye for being second in the east but fifth overall. FWIW, Marshall had just as many losses as us and split with us, but played 2 fewer conference games. Had the season played all the way out, we probably would have been 6th overall, behind them too.

We had more wins than NT. So no, if they seeded like they normally do, we would have still received a bye.

As for Marshall, we split with them without our two best scorers. But sure, I bet in a regular year, everyone else would have been better and we would have been worse.

You're really stretching here. There was a very unbalanced schedule this year. So while you may be able to make an argument on a technicality, and a flimsy one at that, the reality is that we likely were not one of the 4 best teams in the conference, and the fact that we finished 2nd in the East does not prove the we were.
03-22-2021 08:27 AM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 08:27 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(03-21-2021 06:46 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(03-21-2021 05:29 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(03-21-2021 02:06 PM)ODUMONARCHZ1 Wrote:  
(03-21-2021 01:38 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  So why’d we get that tournament bye that went to only 4 teams?
We were top 4 based on how divisions were split but I think on a regular season with no divisions, we probably would've been a 5th seed IMO.

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Thats how I see it. We were second in the east, but other than WKU, the other top 3 were in the west. Because of COVID, they changed the rules, and the byes went to the top 2 seeds in each division, not overall. As a result, we got a bye for being second in the east but fifth overall. FWIW, Marshall had just as many losses as us and split with us, but played 2 fewer conference games. Had the season played all the way out, we probably would have been 6th overall, behind them too.

We had more wins than NT. So no, if they seeded like they normally do, we would have still received a bye.

As for Marshall, we split with them without our two best scorers. But sure, I bet in a regular year, everyone else would have been better and we would have been worse.

You're really stretching here. There was a very unbalanced schedule this year. So while you may be able to make an argument on a technicality, and a flimsy one at that, the reality is that we likely were not one of the 4 best teams in the conference, and the fact that we finished 2nd in the East does not prove the we were.

You can’t call one side of the argument flimsy bc it is based on what happened, when the other side of the argument is based on what you believe would have happened.

Also, see post #25.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2021 09:25 AM by ODUDrunkard13.)
03-22-2021 09:05 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
Guess UNT is the best team in the CUSA. Didn't we have the lead in that game about 70% and had the ball and a 3 point game with a minute to go. They made plays and shots when they needed to. The top teams in CUSA, seem very equal. If using RPI the top-5 are between 42-75.
03-22-2021 09:26 AM
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ODUODUODU Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
Potential means nothing. Results matter.
03-22-2021 09:26 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
It really doesn't matter, the result was the same either way.
03-22-2021 09:32 AM
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ODUODUODU Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 09:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  It really doesn't matter, the result was the same either way.

The Official Records are based on results. Opinions are not tracked.
03-22-2021 10:53 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 10:53 AM)ODUODUODU Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 09:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  It really doesn't matter, the result was the same either way.

The Official Records are based on results. Opinions are not tracked.

I guess my point is that we were bounced in the quarters of the tournament and our season ended with no postseason. Whether we finished 1st or 12th in the regular season doesn't change that ultimate result.
03-22-2021 11:01 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 10:53 AM)ODUODUODU Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 09:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  It really doesn't matter, the result was the same either way.

The Official Records are based on results. Opinions are not tracked.

If you are having to explain how the technicality is of importance, you are ignoring the reality that the team was not good. Either that, or your are just spinning.
03-22-2021 11:50 AM
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ODUODUODU Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 11:50 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 10:53 AM)ODUODUODU Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 09:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  It really doesn't matter, the result was the same either way.

The Official Records are based on results. Opinions are not tracked.

If you are having to explain how the technicality is of importance, you are ignoring the reality that the team was not good. Either that, or your are just spinning.

The results show that this team is not good. That's my point. We were bumped from the Conference Tony immediately. We had our moments, but a lousy year...
03-22-2021 11:58 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 07:53 AM)odu09 Wrote:  Calling us a top 4 team because we got a bye due to being the #2 team in the East is incredibly disingenuous and borderline lazy assessment.

It would be if it wasn't 100% true :)
03-22-2021 12:16 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
And some people are talking about different things.

The best team in CUSA was probably North Texas but they finished 5 or 6th in season. But, the difference between them and the other top 5 teams in conference were close enought that you can make a valid argument for any of them.

And teams play unbalanced schedules all the time. Some posters on here will try to make our team look much worse than they actually were for some reason (hatred of coach?) I remember a poster trying to claim this was the worst ODU team in history.
03-22-2021 12:21 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 12:21 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  And some people are talking about different things.

The best team in CUSA was probably North Texas but they finished 5 or 6th in season. But, the difference between them and the other top 5 teams in conference were close enought that you can make a valid argument for any of them.

And teams play unbalanced schedules all the time. Some posters on here will try to make our team look much worse than they actually were for some reason (hatred of coach?) I remember a poster trying to claim this was the worst ODU team in history.

Let's stop playing the game of what the silly crazy unbalanced pandemic two division standings say, and just talk about how good the team was.

You claimed that people pretend like the team was worse than it was, but you seem to think the team was far better than the 7th best team in CUSA, which is exactly what your basketball ranking bible from Kenny P says. So you can't be consistent in how you evaluate teams and tell me that this was not another disappointing season
03-22-2021 12:36 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #38
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 12:36 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 12:21 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  And some people are talking about different things.

The best team in CUSA was probably North Texas but they finished 5 or 6th in season. But, the difference between them and the other top 5 teams in conference were close enought that you can make a valid argument for any of them.

And teams play unbalanced schedules all the time. Some posters on here will try to make our team look much worse than they actually were for some reason (hatred of coach?) I remember a poster trying to claim this was the worst ODU team in history.

Let's stop playing the game of what the silly crazy unbalanced pandemic two division standings say, and just talk about how good the team was.

You claimed that people pretend like the team was worse than it was, but you seem to think the team was far better than the 7th best team in CUSA, which is exactly what your basketball ranking bible from Kenny P says. So you can't be consistent in how you evaluate teams and tell me that this was not another disappointing season

I have never said they were far better than the 7th best CUSA team this year. All that I said was that they competed very well with every team they played this year, including UNT, Marshall, WKY, UAB. I would have liked to see a full schedule.
03-22-2021 12:44 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 12:36 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 12:21 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  And some people are talking about different things.

The best team in CUSA was probably North Texas but they finished 5 or 6th in season. But, the difference between them and the other top 5 teams in conference were close enought that you can make a valid argument for any of them.

And teams play unbalanced schedules all the time. Some posters on here will try to make our team look much worse than they actually were for some reason (hatred of coach?) I remember a poster trying to claim this was the worst ODU team in history.

Let's stop playing the game of what the silly crazy unbalanced pandemic two division standings say, and just talk about how good the team was.

You claimed that people pretend like the team was worse than it was, but you seem to think the team was far better than the 7th best team in CUSA, which is exactly what your basketball ranking bible from Kenny P says. So you can't be consistent in how you evaluate teams and tell me that this was not another disappointing season

And two tournaments in a row without even winning a single game. Not even in the discussion for the NIT either. I don't expect them to send JJ packing this year, but man, he's got to be on the hot seat at least. If we don't go to a real (NCAA or NIT) tournament next year, I have to believe he's gone. If not, we need to send an apology letter to the Capel family. That said, IF Curry, Trice and Ezikpe return, I do think we have a chance to be very good next year. Hopefully at least NIT good. Though I thought that this season too.
03-22-2021 12:47 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Are we the worst best team in CUSA?
(03-22-2021 12:44 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 12:36 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(03-22-2021 12:21 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  And some people are talking about different things.

The best team in CUSA was probably North Texas but they finished 5 or 6th in season. But, the difference between them and the other top 5 teams in conference were close enought that you can make a valid argument for any of them.

And teams play unbalanced schedules all the time. Some posters on here will try to make our team look much worse than they actually were for some reason (hatred of coach?) I remember a poster trying to claim this was the worst ODU team in history.

Let's stop playing the game of what the silly crazy unbalanced pandemic two division standings say, and just talk about how good the team was.

You claimed that people pretend like the team was worse than it was, but you seem to think the team was far better than the 7th best team in CUSA, which is exactly what your basketball ranking bible from Kenny P says. So you can't be consistent in how you evaluate teams and tell me that this was not another disappointing season

I have never said they were far better than the 7th best CUSA team this year. All that I said was that they competed very well with every team they played this year, including UNT, Marshall, WKY, UAB. I would have liked to see a full schedule.

Let's give 'em participation trophy and extend JJ then. #LoweredExpectations
03-22-2021 12:50 PM
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