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Pac-12 Network Payouts
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Sicembear11 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-20-2021 12:01 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 11:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 09:51 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  ...or why they'll be calling Texas and Oklahoma sooner rather than later.

https://awfulannouncing.com/local-networ...ibers.html

Why would they be calling Texas and Oklahoma? Interest in West Coast football would likely be even lower in those states than they are in the existing PAC 12 footprint.

Your kidding right? The Pac-12 NEEDS large population states with viewers that actually care about football--thats why. The real question is why in the hell would Texas and Oklahoma actually agree to any Pac-12 offer? Hey, come add a bunch of excessive travel to play schools your fans dont care about---oh---and you'll do it for a smaller share of a smaller smaller pie. I suspect thats not likely to be the most enticing offer Texas and Oklahoma will see over the next few years.

People really don’t get that with their realignment talk. “Texas and OU to the B1G!!!” Yes because Texas’ nearest conference road-game is going to be in Nebraska... “Texas and OU to the PAC-12!!” Yes, same problems but also because people are going to want to watch Texas-Stanford over Texas A&M-Arkansas...

The only way the PAC movement works is with four teams from the Big 12, and even then it is only maybe.

Better idea would be for the PAC to stand pat and build from their. The real problem is there is a cultural issue on the West Coast that doesn’t foster football as the preeminent sport like it does in the south and Midwest. PAC schools should just invest in soccer and be ahead of the curve.
03-20-2021 01:12 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #22
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-19-2021 12:15 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 12:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 09:51 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  ...or why they'll be calling Texas and Oklahoma sooner rather than later.

https://awfulannouncing.com/local-networ...ibers.html

Maybe, but why on earth would Texas and Oklahoma leave the Big 12 for the PAC?

07-coffee3

If they get more money from the networks to do so, they have to consider it. Otherwise, of course they won't.

Why would the networks want to give Texas and Oklahoma more money to have them leave the Big 12 for the Pac 12? Combine Texas/Oklahoma with the California schools, Oregon, and Washington and not have to pay the Little Eight.

Texas and OU are making lots of money now playing teams they care about. And they are going to give that up to travel to Oregon and San Francisco?

Better chance that the Arizona schools join the B12. Which is not happening either.
03-20-2021 01:23 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
It seems like the best option for the Pac-12 would be to sell their live sports inventory, production facilities, everything to one of the FANG companies.
03-20-2021 01:27 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-20-2021 01:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 12:15 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 12:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 09:51 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  ...or why they'll be calling Texas and Oklahoma sooner rather than later.

https://awfulannouncing.com/local-networ...ibers.html

Maybe, but why on earth would Texas and Oklahoma leave the Big 12 for the PAC?

07-coffee3

If they get more money from the networks to do so, they have to consider it. Otherwise, of course they won't.

Why would the networks want to give Texas and Oklahoma more money to have them leave the Big 12 for the Pac 12? Combine Texas/Oklahoma with the California schools, Oregon, and Washington and not have to pay the Little Eight.

Texas and OU are making lots of money now playing teams they care about. And they are going to give that up to travel to Oregon and San Francisco?

Better chance that the Arizona schools join the B12. Which is not happening either.

Do they really care about Iowa State, West Virginia, and the Kansas twins? It's debatable Texas and Oklahoma really care about Texas Tech, TCU, and Baylor as well, the advantage is they and their fans can drive there. We know Texas doesn't care about A&M at all. I'm guessing Texas cares about one school, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma two schools, Texas and Oklahoma State. The advantage of the other Big 12 schools are they're teams to fill out a schedule. West Virginia's in the Big 12 because they were desperate. If the networks paid Texas and Oklahoma as much to be in the AAC as they did the Big 12, UT and OU would replace Texas Tech, TCU, and Baylor with Houston, SMU, and Tulsa.
03-20-2021 01:31 PM
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Stugray2 Online
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Post: #25
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
And anyone wonders why Larry Scott was terminated?

I am curious what the revamped P12N looks like with then next media contract they'll negotiate next year. I am sure everything will be different. Regional networks will be gone, most of the network executives released, overhead greatly reduced. Equity given to the new media partner who will produce for the conference. Many other moves, including a shift to Football first, Men's Basketball second in priority. This should easily double the annual payout, while the 1st and 2nd tiers renegotiated should up the package considerably. They will not compete with the Big Ten or SEC on money and there is no way they can (nor can the ACC or Big 12).

Realignment is not in the picture. The Big 12 is not going West, and nobody is going to the unstable Big 12. The only two schools of value for realignment are Oklahoma and Texas. If either of them move it will be to the Big Ten or SEC, because that is where the money is. And the Big 12 will remain unstable, nobody willing to join, until Texas and Oklahoma sign a new GOR. That they haven't and that the money difference of the Big 12 and that of the Big Ten/SEC is looking to be north of $30m a year come 2025, has all eyes on Oklahoma's decision coming in three years. But none of this has anything to do with the Pac-12.
03-20-2021 01:47 PM
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texoma Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
After reading this entire thread, I have concluded again, that most of the posters have an opinion on Oklahoma and Texas, but really do not understand the situation at Oklahoma and Texas.

Oklahoma and Texas will not choose to be on an island, because of their non-football sports teams. Any move by either one to the PAC will include at least four and possibly more Big12 teams.

You can forget that stuff about Oklahoma and Oklahoma State wanting to go to the PAC. The Big12 was falling apart and IMO that was apparently a bluff by David Boren, the then OU President and Larry Scott. The bluff was to try and force Texas to join the PAC. Texas called the bluff and said they would rather look East possibly the ACC. The PAC was not interested without Texas.

I have no idea if either Oklahoma or Texas or both will want to move to the PAC, but FWEIW I am convinced that neither one or both will go without some of their neighbors.
03-20-2021 02:41 PM
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Sicembear11 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-20-2021 01:31 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-20-2021 01:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 12:15 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 12:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 09:51 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  ...or why they'll be calling Texas and Oklahoma sooner rather than later.

https://awfulannouncing.com/local-networ...ibers.html

Maybe, but why on earth would Texas and Oklahoma leave the Big 12 for the PAC?

07-coffee3

If they get more money from the networks to do so, they have to consider it. Otherwise, of course they won't.

Why would the networks want to give Texas and Oklahoma more money to have them leave the Big 12 for the Pac 12? Combine Texas/Oklahoma with the California schools, Oregon, and Washington and not have to pay the Little Eight.

Texas and OU are making lots of money now playing teams they care about. And they are going to give that up to travel to Oregon and San Francisco?

Better chance that the Arizona schools join the B12. Which is not happening either.

Do they really care about Iowa State, West Virginia, and the Kansas twins? It's debatable Texas and Oklahoma really care about Texas Tech, TCU, and Baylor as well, the advantage is they and their fans can drive there. We know Texas doesn't care about A&M at all. I'm guessing Texas cares about one school, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma two schools, Texas and Oklahoma State. The advantage of the other Big 12 schools are they're teams to fill out a schedule. West Virginia's in the Big 12 because they were desperate. If the networks paid Texas and Oklahoma as much to be in the AAC as they did the Big 12, UT and OU would replace Texas Tech, TCU, and Baylor with Houston, SMU, and Tulsa.


There is no debate that Texas fans care about playing Tech and Baylor and TCU, because it is obvious they do care. Same with Oklahoma with Oklahoma State and their Big 8 brethren. You can pretend that 100+ years of history with your conference teammates don’t matter, you can pretend that geographic proximity to your rivals doesn’t matter, you can pretend that bragging rights to your office co-workers doesn’t matter, but you would be wrong every time. Your NFL-lite pipe dreams will never work with college football because it is an entirely different sport and an entirely different beast.
03-20-2021 03:31 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-20-2021 03:31 PM)Sicembear11 Wrote:  
(03-20-2021 01:31 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-20-2021 01:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 12:15 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 12:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Maybe, but why on earth would Texas and Oklahoma leave the Big 12 for the PAC?

07-coffee3

If they get more money from the networks to do so, they have to consider it. Otherwise, of course they won't.

Why would the networks want to give Texas and Oklahoma more money to have them leave the Big 12 for the Pac 12? Combine Texas/Oklahoma with the California schools, Oregon, and Washington and not have to pay the Little Eight.

Texas and OU are making lots of money now playing teams they care about. And they are going to give that up to travel to Oregon and San Francisco?

Better chance that the Arizona schools join the B12. Which is not happening either.

Do they really care about Iowa State, West Virginia, and the Kansas twins? It's debatable Texas and Oklahoma really care about Texas Tech, TCU, and Baylor as well, the advantage is they and their fans can drive there. We know Texas doesn't care about A&M at all. I'm guessing Texas cares about one school, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma two schools, Texas and Oklahoma State. The advantage of the other Big 12 schools are they're teams to fill out a schedule. West Virginia's in the Big 12 because they were desperate. If the networks paid Texas and Oklahoma as much to be in the AAC as they did the Big 12, UT and OU would replace Texas Tech, TCU, and Baylor with Houston, SMU, and Tulsa.


There is no debate that Texas fans care about playing Tech and Baylor and TCU, because it is obvious they do care. Same with Oklahoma with Oklahoma State and their Big 8 brethren. You can pretend that 100+ years of history with your conference teammates don’t matter, you can pretend that geographic proximity to your rivals doesn’t matter, you can pretend that bragging rights to your office co-workers doesn’t matter, but you would be wrong every time. Your NFL-lite pipe dreams will never work with college football because it is an entirely different sport and an entirely different beast.

Texas had a 100+ year history with A&M as well. Same with Houston and SMU.
03-20-2021 03:45 PM
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Sicembear11 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-20-2021 03:45 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-20-2021 03:31 PM)Sicembear11 Wrote:  
(03-20-2021 01:31 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-20-2021 01:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 12:15 PM)schmolik Wrote:  If they get more money from the networks to do so, they have to consider it. Otherwise, of course they won't.

Why would the networks want to give Texas and Oklahoma more money to have them leave the Big 12 for the Pac 12? Combine Texas/Oklahoma with the California schools, Oregon, and Washington and not have to pay the Little Eight.

Texas and OU are making lots of money now playing teams they care about. And they are going to give that up to travel to Oregon and San Francisco?

Better chance that the Arizona schools join the B12. Which is not happening either.

Do they really care about Iowa State, West Virginia, and the Kansas twins? It's debatable Texas and Oklahoma really care about Texas Tech, TCU, and Baylor as well, the advantage is they and their fans can drive there. We know Texas doesn't care about A&M at all. I'm guessing Texas cares about one school, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma two schools, Texas and Oklahoma State. The advantage of the other Big 12 schools are they're teams to fill out a schedule. West Virginia's in the Big 12 because they were desperate. If the networks paid Texas and Oklahoma as much to be in the AAC as they did the Big 12, UT and OU would replace Texas Tech, TCU, and Baylor with Houston, SMU, and Tulsa.


There is no debate that Texas fans care about playing Tech and Baylor and TCU, because it is obvious they do care. Same with Oklahoma with Oklahoma State and their Big 8 brethren. You can pretend that 100+ years of history with your conference teammates don’t matter, you can pretend that geographic proximity to your rivals doesn’t matter, you can pretend that bragging rights to your office co-workers doesn’t matter, but you would be wrong every time. Your NFL-lite pipe dreams will never work with college football because it is an entirely different sport and an entirely different beast.

Texas had a 100+ year history with A&M as well. Same with Houston and SMU.

1. The Aggies left and even said at the time it was a “100 year decision”.

2. Houston joined in the ‘70s and will soon have been in a conference with Memphis longer than they ever were with UT.

3. SMU and TCU and Rice were all hard to leave when the Big 12/SWC split happened. You still see those teams getting favorite scheduling with their former SWC conference mates. The ties are still there.
03-20-2021 03:51 PM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #30
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
If the TV money is right, would a PAC 20 work?

This would solve the potential travel problem as non revenue sports would be completely divisional.

Original Pac 10 in one division

Other division:
Texas, Texas Tech, Houston, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Utah, Colorado
03-20-2021 05:45 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-20-2021 01:27 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  It seems like the best option for the Pac-12 would be to sell their live sports inventory, production facilities, everything to one of the FANG companies.

Mark, the issue for the PAC is that their rate for a subscription is the lowest in the industry. It's .11 cents per subscription. The Big 10 gets .57 per sub and the SEC and ACC gets .75 per sub and the issue is that's the average between in state and out of state subs. So the PAC averages .11 cents per subscription and that's with most subscriptions coming in state. They simply had a hard time getting national carriage and the few services that picked them up dropped them due to lack of interest. I had the PACN on UVerse the first year I subscribed. They were gone from the lineup by the 2nd year, but the BTN remained with the SECN. UVerse didn't pick up the ACCN in Alabama so I didn't pay the extra money to get it. Now that I stream and get ESPN+ I can watch most ACC games I'd care to watch.

The PACN has consistently paid the schools less than 3 million a year and sometimes a lot less.

The average contract for 7 of the Big 12 schools pays them 3 million for Tier 3 inventory on a per school basis and Texas averages over 15 million for Tier 3 and Oklahoma and Kansas get roughly about 7 million a year with different stipulations on overhead costs.

So my point is there is absolutely no incentive to move to the PAC where they make less on T3, and less on the overall contract than they get with the Big 12 for T1 and T2 rights. If there is movement, and that's a big if it would be from the PAC to the Big 12. People don't move for less.
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2021 05:57 PM by JRsec.)
03-20-2021 05:53 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-20-2021 05:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  UVerse didn't pick up the ACCN in Alabama so I didn't pay the extra money to get it.

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03-20-2021 06:24 PM
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shizzle787 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
This is one of several reasons why I think we will see a merger of the better schools in the Pac-12 and Big 12 into a Pacific Southwest Conference.

Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, Arizona, Arizona State

Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA
03-21-2021 01:57 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #34
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-21-2021 01:57 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  This is one of several reasons why I think we will see a merger of the better schools in the Pac-12 and Big 12 into a Pacific Southwest Conference.

Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, Arizona, Arizona State

Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA

This line up would be worth more than what the Pac 12 and Big 12 are getting now. I don’t know if these schools are ready to cut out the 8 schools from the two leagues left out of the merger.
03-21-2021 03:27 PM
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ken d Online
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Post: #35
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-20-2021 05:45 PM)solohawks Wrote:  If the TV money is right, would a PAC 20 work?

This would solve the potential travel problem as non revenue sports would be completely divisional.

Original Pac 10 in one division

Other division:
Texas, Texas Tech, Houston, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Utah, Colorado

Revenue sports would pretty much be completely divisional as well. The divisions would act as two separate conferences, just with one conference commissioner and headquarters.
03-21-2021 06:04 PM
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ken d Online
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Post: #36
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-20-2021 12:01 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 11:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(03-19-2021 09:51 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  ...or why they'll be calling Texas and Oklahoma sooner rather than later.

https://awfulannouncing.com/local-networ...ibers.html

Why would they be calling Texas and Oklahoma? Interest in West Coast football would likely be even lower in those states than they are in the existing PAC 12 footprint.

Your kidding right? The Pac-12 NEEDS large population states with viewers that actually care about football--thats why. The real question is why in the hell would Texas and Oklahoma actually agree to any Pac-12 offer? Hey, come add a bunch of excessive travel to play schools your fans dont care about---oh---and you'll do it for a smaller share of a smaller smaller pie. I suspect thats not likely to be the most enticing offer Texas and Oklahoma will see over the next few years.

I don't think you understood my post at all. What I am saying is that the fans in Texas and Oklahoma don't care about west coast football. They care about football in their own region. They would rather watch Texas play Baylor than play UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Washington, Oregon, etc. Maybe USC would be interesting, but that game alone isn't going to get a lot of Texans to subscribe to the PACN, because they could watch that game on national TV anyway.
03-21-2021 06:09 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-21-2021 06:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(03-20-2021 05:45 PM)solohawks Wrote:  If the TV money is right, would a PAC 20 work?

This would solve the potential travel problem as non revenue sports would be completely divisional.

Original Pac 10 in one division

Other division:
Texas, Texas Tech, Houston, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Utah, Colorado

Revenue sports would pretty much be completely divisional as well. The divisions would act as two separate conferences, just with one conference commissioner and headquarters.

That's too many to be profitable. Eliminating 1 conference overhead adds about 2 million per school in a 16 member conference.

Arizona, Arizona State, California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington

Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Utah

That's 16 schools grouped into two distinct regions with better academics and a larger total market.
03-21-2021 06:18 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #38
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
The 16 team JR model is pretty nice—12 are AAU.

If it was up to the networks, that would be the realignment that happens in 2024. it also likely shifts the playoff closer to a P4 champions tournament.

WVU and ND slide into the ACC as the 15th and 16th members and we have a top tier of 60 schools. (I imagine ND negotiates something where they only play 7 conference games).
03-22-2021 06:49 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-22-2021 06:49 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The 16 team JR model is pretty nice—12 are AAU.

If it was up to the networks, that would be the realignment that happens in 2024. it also likely shifts the playoff closer to a P4 champions tournament.

WVU and ND slide into the ACC as the 15th and 16th members and we have a top tier of 60 schools. (I imagine ND negotiates something where they only play 7 conference games).

If that were to happen what would be the likely outcome for the left behinds?

Would WV have to go indy? Would Oregon St and Washington St join the MWC?

Would the group of Kansas St, Iowa St, TCU and Baylor be strong enough to reorganize as a P5 conference?
03-22-2021 08:42 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Pac-12 Network Payouts
(03-20-2021 01:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  And anyone wonders why Larry Scott was terminated?

I am curious what the revamped P12N looks like with then next media contract they'll negotiate next year. I am sure everything will be different. Regional networks will be gone, most of the network executives released, overhead greatly reduced. Equity given to the new media partner who will produce for the conference. Many other moves, including a shift to Football first, Men's Basketball second in priority. This should easily double the annual payout, while the 1st and 2nd tiers renegotiated should up the package considerably. They will not compete with the Big Ten or SEC on money and there is no way they can (nor can the ACC or Big 12).

Realignment is not in the picture. The Big 12 is not going West, and nobody is going to the unstable Big 12. The only two schools of value for realignment are Oklahoma and Texas. If either of them move it will be to the Big Ten or SEC, because that is where the money is. And the Big 12 will remain unstable, nobody willing to join, until Texas and Oklahoma sign a new GOR. That they haven't and that the money difference of the Big 12 and that of the Big Ten/SEC is looking to be north of $30m a year come 2025, has all eyes on Oklahoma's decision coming in three years. But none of this has anything to do with the Pac-12.
Big12 being unstable still a thing in 2021? There have been more complaints coming from Pac 12 presidents/ADs than in the Big12 for sometime now. They had internal squabbling over playing a 2020 season in a pandemic.

If anyone looks unstable it's the conference out west who's schools are making less than schools out in flyover country.
03-22-2021 09:18 AM
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