The only things similar about Christmas and Cooke is that there last names both start with C. I saw Cooke play in HS and he was a highly skilled player who I was surprised dropped to JMU. He played well in all facets of the game even as a freshman and never tried to do too much.

I think Christmas has some talent, but it was inconsistent talent. As someone noted he had great energy on both ends when his shot was falling, but became a ghost on D when his offense was not on. Pretty obviously Byington saw this as the season went on and when he saw Christmas struggle early in rotation offensively, he would not see a whole lot of time.

I think with Mike conditioning has a lot to do with it. Cooke was in real good shape. Whether it’s weight or Covid issues Mike never really looked like he was conditioned to go max effort for 30 minutes. That’s what you need out of starters. He could have continued to be an effective piece off the bench for JMU but I guess he wants to start. Will be interesting to see where he lands. I think a red shirt year to get into really good shape could be valuable for him but with college hoops now he’ll probably just play immediately somewhere. I think he’ll find the same challenges to getting major minutes for a winning team until he addresses the conditioning part.

Had Byington been Cooke’s coach, I don’t think he would have transferred. Cooke would have loved Byington’s system and would have flourished in it.

Certain players drinking problems along with Brady’s handling of them were a big reason why Cooke left. Cooke had a great work ethic and was driven to play beyond college. When teammates are drinking before practice and coaches turn a blind eye to it, serious players will move on.

(03-17-2021 10:52 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  Had Byington been Cooke’s coach, I don’t think he would have transferred. Cooke would have loved Byington’s system and would have flourished in it.

Certain players drinking problems along with Brady’s handling of them were a big reason why Cooke left. Cooke had a great work ethic and was driven to play beyond college. When teammates are drinking before practice and coaches turn a blind eye to it, serious players will move on.

Well, its public now!

In all seriousness, thats a challenge at multiple levels. First, Brady was sold/marketed as a hardass who commanded the most of his players. Was curt and honest. Unfortunately when a guy like that allows behavior like that the perception is EVEN WORSE amongst the guys he leads. Now the rest of the guys see a paper tiger and rifts can easily build, and self-starters like Cooke opt out.

It is public knowledge about said player. Alcoholism is a disease and nothing to be ashamed of. Lots of good people are impacted by it. Getting help is the only way to get healthy again.

I often wonder how our fortunes would have been if Cooke and Curry stayed together and said player was the one who transferred out. I think they would have been a really good 1-2 combination.

(03-17-2021 06:37 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 01:49 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:47 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  I don’t see Christmas as immensely talented and a Cooke like player. Given his size, he should be a dominant force in the paint but I saw a guy who played soft many times. He got pushed around and to the floor quite a bit. With Lewis out, he had the opportunity to fill the void and get more minutes yet he disappeared for the most park.

For me, Christmas lacks toughness and a high basketball IQ. He looked stoned at times. His weight was a real problem his Freshman year.

You put Christmas’s body with Edwards motor and you have an immensely talented player. As he is, you have a rotation player with a lot of potential.

You’re a fan of Edwards, and yet you denigrate Christmas’ basketball IQ? Pardon me while I chuckle.

All Cooke had was “potential” too...but JMU never benefited from it.

Christmas is a talented player with a big upside. He’s a Sophomore, and if I understand things correctly, doesn’t he retain this COVID year of eligibility? That gives Christmas 3 more years at JMU (if he chooses to use them). A lot of maturing and development can happen in 3 years. I think his upside is quite high, and would benefit the JMU MBB program.

Only time will tell how Christmas’ college career will turn out. I’m very sorry to see him leave (should he follow through on his decision).

You don’t comprehend the written word very well. I mentioned Edwards motor. Their are holes in Edwards game too but he makes up for those with his defensive intensity and the fact that he never stops moving.

I am not dismissing Christmas’s potential. I just don’t see him as irreplaceable. What holds him back is his lack of consistent energy. He gets lost on the court at times too. I would see other players directing him where to go when they were setting up the press.

Byington must agree with my assessment because Christmas averaged under 20 minutes a game this year. Christmas has talent but not enough to earn a starting position. Based on Byington’s first recruiting class, I expect he will bring in a player or two that will be better than Christmas and therefore Christmas’s role wouldn’t change much.

Cooke was a good defender at JMU and played with a lot of energy. His shooting percentage seemed to go up at Dayton. I know his average points per game did. I really don’t see the similarities between he and Christmas.

Christmas will transfer down to a low major and likely average more points per game. I don’t see his defense picking up because I don’t see his energy picking up but as you say, time will tell.

I comprehend fine my friend. Your willingness to overlook Edwards lack of what you have defined as “basketball IQ” and your rather harsh condemnation of Christmas for lacking same is what I find funny. I guess you like that Edwards makes his mistakes with more energy.

But it’s ok to disagree...which we do about Christmas and his potential future contributions to JMU MBB. He will be missed.

I also fine it rather presumptuous that you have already forecast his future as limited to transferring “down” to a “low major.” What is that exactly? Iowa State? Or did you mean to express Christmas would transfer “down” to a low “mid-major”?

Should Christmas transfer into any major conference, or simply a better MBB conference than the CAA, and he then scores more points and plays more minutes I don’t think that scenario supports your judgment about his ability to contribute to JMU’s program. Nor does it support your judgment if he finds a starting role at another mid-major, similar to Dwight Wilson, who also had his critics.

Let’s just agree to disagree about Christmas, and wish him the best. I’m sure we’ll both watch what happens next with heightened interest.

Funny, I used to frequently disagree with both of you. Now I tend to agree with both of you more times than not, but somehow you two seem to always disagree.

I’m not sure I’d classify Edwards as having bad basketball iq- he sees the court well and is a good passer he was just a freshman who at times was too aggressive and needs to work on his 3 point shot. I like his feel for the game and his vision.

(03-17-2021 04:48 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  I’m not sure I’d classify Edwards as having bad basketball iq- he sees the court well and is a good passer he was just a freshman who at times was too aggressive and needs to work on his 3 point shot. I like his feel for the game and his vision.

Isn’t part of “basketball IQ” knowing how to play within yourself? Just an observation.

(03-17-2021 04:27 PM)Dukester Wrote:  Funny, I used to frequently disagree with both of you. Now I tend to agree with both of you more times than not, but somehow you two seem to always disagree.

Different opinions make the world go ‘round. It would be a pretty bland board if we were all in lockstep.

(03-17-2021 03:58 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 06:37 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 01:49 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:47 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  I don’t see Christmas as immensely talented and a Cooke like player. Given his size, he should be a dominant force in the paint but I saw a guy who played soft many times. He got pushed around and to the floor quite a bit. With Lewis out, he had the opportunity to fill the void and get more minutes yet he disappeared for the most park.

For me, Christmas lacks toughness and a high basketball IQ. He looked stoned at times. His weight was a real problem his Freshman year.

You put Christmas’s body with Edwards motor and you have an immensely talented player. As he is, you have a rotation player with a lot of potential.

You’re a fan of Edwards, and yet you denigrate Christmas’ basketball IQ? Pardon me while I chuckle.

All Cooke had was “potential” too...but JMU never benefited from it.

Christmas is a talented player with a big upside. He’s a Sophomore, and if I understand things correctly, doesn’t he retain this COVID year of eligibility? That gives Christmas 3 more years at JMU (if he chooses to use them). A lot of maturing and development can happen in 3 years. I think his upside is quite high, and would benefit the JMU MBB program.

Only time will tell how Christmas’ college career will turn out. I’m very sorry to see him leave (should he follow through on his decision).

You don’t comprehend the written word very well. I mentioned Edwards motor. Their are holes in Edwards game too but he makes up for those with his defensive intensity and the fact that he never stops moving.

I am not dismissing Christmas’s potential. I just don’t see him as irreplaceable. What holds him back is his lack of consistent energy. He gets lost on the court at times too. I would see other players directing him where to go when they were setting up the press.

Byington must agree with my assessment because Christmas averaged under 20 minutes a game this year. Christmas has talent but not enough to earn a starting position. Based on Byington’s first recruiting class, I expect he will bring in a player or two that will be better than Christmas and therefore Christmas’s role wouldn’t change much.

Cooke was a good defender at JMU and played with a lot of energy. His shooting percentage seemed to go up at Dayton. I know his average points per game did. I really don’t see the similarities between he and Christmas.

Christmas will transfer down to a low major and likely average more points per game. I don’t see his defense picking up because I don’t see his energy picking up but as you say, time will tell.

I comprehend fine my friend. Your willingness to overlook Edwards lack of what you have defined as “basketball IQ” and your rather harsh condemnation of Christmas for lacking same is what I find funny. I guess you like that Edwards makes his mistakes with more energy.

But it’s ok to disagree...which we do about Christmas and his potential future contributions to JMU MBB. He will be missed.

I also fine it rather presumptuous that you have already forecast his future as limited to transferring “down” to a “low major.” What is that exactly? Iowa State? Or did you mean to express Christmas would transfer “down” to a low “mid-major”?

Should Christmas transfer into any major conference, or simply a better MBB conference than the CAA, and he then scores more points and plays more minutes I don’t think that scenario supports your judgment about his ability to contribute to JMU’s program. Nor does it support your judgment if he finds a starting role at another mid-major, similar to Dwight Wilson, who also had his critics.

Let’s just agree to disagree about Christmas, and wish him the best. I’m sure we’ll both watch what happens next with heightened interest.

We can disagree and it is okay. It is boring if we all agree on everything. How we disagree is important though. Sometimes your posts are dismissive like when you say “pardon me while I chuckle”. Leave that one sentence out, and the rest is just you sharing your opinion.

I did not address Edwards basketball IQ in my post. I only spoke to Christmas’s. What I said was give me Christmas’s body and Edwards motor and you have an immensely talented player. In short, I took the best attributes of both.

Edwards grew on me this year. I was critical of him early in the season because he played out of control and took a lot of bad shots. He turned it over too. As I said, his game has holes in it. What I did notice late in the season was that when he was in the game, the energy level of every teammate elevated. The Dukes became a lockdown defense.

I have heard where Christmas is going. I made a mistake when I typed low major. It is low mid-major. I too wish him well.

Byington is elevating the JMU program. Good players are transferring out and better players are coming in. We won’t miss Christmas. Not a slam on him, just recognizing that Byington is raising the bar. I am excited to see who he adds for next season.

Yeah, I think it is all good now. The curse of the lefthander is history and By has taken the Dukes from the ash heap to conference champs in a single season, which is resulting in HUGE recruiting cred.

Dukes hoops is on the road to glory once again!

(03-17-2021 06:30 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 04:27 PM)Dukester Wrote:  Funny, I used to frequently disagree with both of you. Now I tend to agree with both of you more times than not, but somehow you two seem to always disagree.

Different opinions make the world go ‘round. It would be a pretty bland board if we were all in lockstep.

It's certainly not a bland board.

I was the one that was high on Edwards early...and it felt kinda lonely!
The basketball IQ that I liked was his court awareness. His defensive positioning, and anticipation of what was coming, along with his energy and confidence, are traits that grow well. Court vison helped him with his assist game as well. I think he will be a standout for us before his Duke career is over.

He started to dial back some of the ill advised shot selection from early in the season while still being aggressive. I view that as Freshman issues that experience fixes (while I've seen seniors with plenty of experience that have problems with anticipation of plays or getting "lost" on the court). He had a terrible shooting night against Elon, but I didn't have a problem with any of the shots. I thought they were good looks. I'd just like to see more arc on his three, and with his affinity for attacking into the paint, a little work on his handle.

(03-17-2021 09:56 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 03:58 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 06:37 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 01:49 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:47 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  I don’t see Christmas as immensely talented and a Cooke like player. Given his size, he should be a dominant force in the paint but I saw a guy who played soft many times. He got pushed around and to the floor quite a bit. With Lewis out, he had the opportunity to fill the void and get more minutes yet he disappeared for the most park.

For me, Christmas lacks toughness and a high basketball IQ. He looked stoned at times. His weight was a real problem his Freshman year.

You put Christmas’s body with Edwards motor and you have an immensely talented player. As he is, you have a rotation player with a lot of potential.

You’re a fan of Edwards, and yet you denigrate Christmas’ basketball IQ? Pardon me while I chuckle.

All Cooke had was “potential” too...but JMU never benefited from it.

Christmas is a talented player with a big upside. He’s a Sophomore, and if I understand things correctly, doesn’t he retain this COVID year of eligibility? That gives Christmas 3 more years at JMU (if he chooses to use them). A lot of maturing and development can happen in 3 years. I think his upside is quite high, and would benefit the JMU MBB program.

Only time will tell how Christmas’ college career will turn out. I’m very sorry to see him leave (should he follow through on his decision).

You don’t comprehend the written word very well. I mentioned Edwards motor. Their are holes in Edwards game too but he makes up for those with his defensive intensity and the fact that he never stops moving.

I am not dismissing Christmas’s potential. I just don’t see him as irreplaceable. What holds him back is his lack of consistent energy. He gets lost on the court at times too. I would see other players directing him where to go when they were setting up the press.

Byington must agree with my assessment because Christmas averaged under 20 minutes a game this year. Christmas has talent but not enough to earn a starting position. Based on Byington’s first recruiting class, I expect he will bring in a player or two that will be better than Christmas and therefore Christmas’s role wouldn’t change much.

Cooke was a good defender at JMU and played with a lot of energy. His shooting percentage seemed to go up at Dayton. I know his average points per game did. I really don’t see the similarities between he and Christmas.

Christmas will transfer down to a low major and likely average more points per game. I don’t see his defense picking up because I don’t see his energy picking up but as you say, time will tell.

I comprehend fine my friend. Your willingness to overlook Edwards lack of what you have defined as “basketball IQ” and your rather harsh condemnation of Christmas for lacking same is what I find funny. I guess you like that Edwards makes his mistakes with more energy.

But it’s ok to disagree...which we do about Christmas and his potential future contributions to JMU MBB. He will be missed.

I also fine it rather presumptuous that you have already forecast his future as limited to transferring “down” to a “low major.” What is that exactly? Iowa State? Or did you mean to express Christmas would transfer “down” to a low “mid-major”?

Should Christmas transfer into any major conference, or simply a better MBB conference than the CAA, and he then scores more points and plays more minutes I don’t think that scenario supports your judgment about his ability to contribute to JMU’s program. Nor does it support your judgment if he finds a starting role at another mid-major, similar to Dwight Wilson, who also had his critics.

Let’s just agree to disagree about Christmas, and wish him the best. I’m sure we’ll both watch what happens next with heightened interest.

We can disagree and it is okay. It is boring if we all agree on everything. How we disagree is important though. Sometimes your posts are dismissive like when you say “pardon me while I chuckle”. Leave that one sentence out, and the rest is just you sharing your opinion.

I did not address Edwards basketball IQ in my post. I only spoke to Christmas’s. What I said was give me Christmas’s body and Edwards motor and you have an immensely talented player. In short, I took the best attributes of both.

Edwards grew on me this year. I was critical of him early in the season because he played out of control and took a lot of bad shots. He turned it over too. As I said, his game has holes in it. What I did notice late in the season was that when he was in the game, the energy level of every teammate elevated. The Dukes became a lockdown defense.

I have heard where Christmas is going. I made a mistake when I typed low major. It is low mid-major. I too wish him well.

Byington is elevating the JMU program. Good players are transferring out and better players are coming in. We won’t miss Christmas. Not a slam on him, just recognizing that Byington is raising the bar. I am excited to see who he adds for next season.

Sorry if you took my chuckle personally, but your post was amusing to me, and sharing so was my honest opinion, as is the intent of all my posts. Otherwise, why post at all?

I’m not “attacking” you, I was disagreeing with you. I read your post, considered your point(s), and responded. By the very nature of my taking time to respond is proof in point I was not “dismissive” of whatever you thought. You obviously must think your word is gospel and is above reproach. It’s not, anymore than my shared opinions on this board are.

So please chill. I’m glad Edwards is staying. I think Christmas had a higher top end than you do, higher than Edwards, and your “opinion” not withstanding, I’m sorry to see him transfer. I believe a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush, and if HCMB can recruit a better player than Christmas to take his spot on the roster I’m all for it. But the proof of that is yet to be proven.

Edwards definitely came into his own this season. Very interested to watch him continue to develop for us. He is a blast to watch play.

Obvious point here but motor is so important - that’s the brand of basketball Coach Byington is looking to play- we’ll have a bigger rotation of guys than I think most programs (even post Covid) and that’s a good thing. Some guys will be bench guys who give a quality 10-15 a night and the starters will go close to 30. You will see constant activity on both sides of the ball for the full shot clock.

When JMU was at its best this year that’s how we played and another obvious point but it is a very difficult style to play against hence the forcing of turnovers the lower opponents shooting percentage etc. With Christmas he showed some flashes but I don’t think he showed that he fits that style. He’s a smooth player who floats in space at times. A guy like Edwards is constantly moving- same with Strickland. That’s the new JMU identity so I’d expect more guys that play like that (regardless of their size) come into the program this off season.

I would have preferred Christmas to stay but don't think that will be a major loss for a JMU team that he could not start for this year as he played behind multiple freshmen and transfers/newcomers. I don't think Christmas would have likely cracked the starting lineup but would have remained a rotation guy getting @15 minutes per game.

Seems as though Coach B has picked up the talent level with incoming freshmen and transfers given a small sample size.

Best of luck to all transfers but I don't think any will be missed and hey if you don't want to be here, leave......see ya.

(03-18-2021 08:53 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Edwards definitely came into his own this season. Very interested to watch him continue to develop for us. He is a blast to watch play.

Certainly saw the improvement from Edwards, and he was a key in some of our games this year. That said, I don't see the upside for him I see in Amati and Strickland. I think Edwards is a "tough", heady player. Don't see him as overly talented.

(03-18-2021 09:55 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 08:53 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Edwards definitely came into his own this season. Very interested to watch him continue to develop for us. He is a blast to watch play.

Certainly saw the improvement from Edwards, and he was a key in some of our games this year. That said, I don't see the upside for him I see in Amati and Strickland. I think Edwards is a "tough", heady player. Don't see him as overly talented.

I am going to disagree here. I think Strickland was the most polished of all of the freshman and I think Amadi was the most physically ready, but I think Edwards may in the end have the most upside based on room for improvement.

Edwards current plusses are his motor, his defense, and his court awareness. He also does not let mistakes bother him and generally plays harder on D after an offensive mistake which is the exact opposite of someone like Christmas who would disappear on D if his O was not going. Edwards weaknesses which are his overall ball handling and shooting can get better over time with some tutelage.

While I love Amadi and think he has huge upside if he can improve his ball handling and mid-range game (and FT's), I compare him to Telfor of Northeastern and say he is not even best Freshman of his size, etc. Telfor already has the skills that I noted now.