This stat just makes me shake my head: for the season, Richmond averaged 75 points per game. Against Toledo, minus their 2 leading scorers, they scored 76.

No excuse. None. Until Toledo teams start to show up for big games & learn how to take advantage of opportunities, we will continue to lose the games that really matter.

Congrats on a nice season and something to build on. Take care.

Really too bad for the players to have to end like that. The beginning of the end was when Marion got third foul with 15 min left and had to sit for 4 minutes. At that point the Rockets were outrebounding the Spiders by 7 and were up by 8 pts. Rebounds ended 34-32 Richmond. MJ is one of our best rebounders and leaders.
Richmond seemed to figure out answers as the game progressed and our players got in foul trouble. They stated pounding inside against Shumate and he had foul trouble as did Marion and Rollins.
But the match-ups are what caused the loss IMO. Richmond out quicked our quickest and outsized our bigs in crunch time. That meant easy buckets for them and contested shots for us whether inside or outside.
Need a big like Boothe who can play inside and out and not get dominated with height/muscle. Even if we had Komugum, Edu, and/or Marenka in rotation they are skinny dudes easily moved in the paint. Eight or nine man rotation would spread the fouls out. Need to keep improving on foot speed recruiting as we have the last couple years.
I hope both Marion and Littleson are back next year to erase this bad memory!

(03-18-2021 12:50 AM)UTfanBGalum Wrote:  Really too bad for the players to have to end like that. The beginning of the end was when Marion got third foul with 15 min left and had to sit for 4 minutes. At that point the Rockets were outrebounding the Spiders by 7 and were up by 8 pts. Rebounds ended 34-32 Richmond. MJ is one of our best rebounders and leaders.
Richmond seemed to figure out answers as the game progressed and our players got in foul trouble. They stated pounding inside against Shumate and he had foul trouble as did Marion and Rollins.
But the match-ups are what caused the loss IMO. Richmond out quicked our quickest and outsized our bigs in crunch time. That meant easy buckets for them and contested shots for us whether inside or outside.
Need a big like Boothe who can play inside and out and not get dominated with height/muscle. Even if we had Komugum, Edu, and/or Marenka in rotation they are skinny dudes easily moved in the paint. Eight or nine man rotation would spread the fouls out. Need to keep improving on foot speed recruiting as we have the last couple years.
I hope both Marion and Littleson are back next year to erase this bad memory!

This post is spot on. Marreon needing to sit due to fouls happened at the wrong time. Toledo got exposed again inside. As I am thinking back I wonder why Komagum and Maranka were not used. I think it is because Shumate offers so much more on the offensive end. Edu would have made a big difference in this game. When Toledo played Xavier a couple years ago in the NIT, Edu and Knapke were great together inside. Xavier couldn’t handle Toledo’s defensive pressure, but Toledo got gassed in the 2nd half with a 6 man line-up due to injuries. Edu would have dominated those guys and would have been a big help in the boards. Toledo needs to consider what can be done to get some quality bigs, or this will keep happening.

(03-18-2021 05:43 AM)PTLROCK Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 12:50 AM)UTfanBGalum Wrote:  Really too bad for the players to have to end like that. The beginning of the end was when Marion got third foul with 15 min left and had to sit for 4 minutes. At that point the Rockets were outrebounding the Spiders by 7 and were up by 8 pts. Rebounds ended 34-32 Richmond. MJ is one of our best rebounders and leaders.
Richmond seemed to figure out answers as the game progressed and our players got in foul trouble. They stated pounding inside against Shumate and he had foul trouble as did Marion and Rollins.
But the match-ups are what caused the loss IMO. Richmond out quicked our quickest and outsized our bigs in crunch time. That meant easy buckets for them and contested shots for us whether inside or outside.
Need a big like Boothe who can play inside and out and not get dominated with height/muscle. Even if we had Komugum, Edu, and/or Marenka in rotation they are skinny dudes easily moved in the paint. Eight or nine man rotation would spread the fouls out. Need to keep improving on foot speed recruiting as we have the last couple years.
I hope both Marion and Littleson are back next year to erase this bad memory!

This post is spot on. Marreon needing to sit due to fouls happened at the wrong time. Toledo got exposed again inside. As I am thinking back I wonder why Komagum and Maranka were not used. I think it is because Shumate offers so much more on the offensive end. Edu would have made a big difference in this game. When Toledo played Xavier a couple years ago in the NIT, Edu and Knapke were great together inside. Xavier couldn’t handle Toledo’s defensive pressure, but Toledo got gassed in the 2nd half with a 6 man line-up due to injuries. Edu would have dominated those guys and would have been a big help in the boards. Toledo needs to consider what can be done to get some quality bigs, or this will keep happening.

That's really the heart of it. Their bench players were more athletic and quicker than Toledo's starters. The MAC as a whole is shell of what it once was. The league has very few pro prospects. Toledo and the MAC have have skilled players, tall players, athletic players, and shooters. However, Toledo and the MAC rarely have players who are all or a combination of at least three of those traits. Littleson can shoot, but can't get away from faster defenders. Jackson is talented, but his effectiveness drops when having to drive against bigger players. Milner is probably the most versatile player on the roster. Shumate has some size, but is not an inside player. The only NBA prospect I saw in MAC tournament was Preston of Ohio, and he was guy who had 2 scholarship offers coming out of high school.

(03-18-2021 06:59 AM)falconplucker Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 05:43 AM)PTLROCK Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 12:50 AM)UTfanBGalum Wrote:  Really too bad for the players to have to end like that. The beginning of the end was when Marion got third foul with 15 min left and had to sit for 4 minutes. At that point the Rockets were outrebounding the Spiders by 7 and were up by 8 pts. Rebounds ended 34-32 Richmond. MJ is one of our best rebounders and leaders.
Richmond seemed to figure out answers as the game progressed and our players got in foul trouble. They stated pounding inside against Shumate and he had foul trouble as did Marion and Rollins.
But the match-ups are what caused the loss IMO. Richmond out quicked our quickest and outsized our bigs in crunch time. That meant easy buckets for them and contested shots for us whether inside or outside.
Need a big like Boothe who can play inside and out and not get dominated with height/muscle. Even if we had Komugum, Edu, and/or Marenka in rotation they are skinny dudes easily moved in the paint. Eight or nine man rotation would spread the fouls out. Need to keep improving on foot speed recruiting as we have the last couple years.
I hope both Marion and Littleson are back next year to erase this bad memory!

This post is spot on. Marreon needing to sit due to fouls happened at the wrong time. Toledo got exposed again inside. As I am thinking back I wonder why Komagum and Maranka were not used. I think it is because Shumate offers so much more on the offensive end. Edu would have made a big difference in this game. When Toledo played Xavier a couple years ago in the NIT, Edu and Knapke were great together inside. Xavier couldn’t handle Toledo’s defensive pressure, but Toledo got gassed in the 2nd half with a 6 man line-up due to injuries. Edu would have dominated those guys and would have been a big help in the boards. Toledo needs to consider what can be done to get some quality bigs, or this will keep happening.

That's really the heart of it. Their bench players were more athletic and quicker than Toledo's starters. The MAC as a whole is shell of what it once was. The league has very few pro prospects. Toledo and the MAC have have skilled players, tall players, athletic players, and shooters. However, Toledo and the MAC rarely have players who are all or a combination of at least three of those traits. Littleson can shoot, but can't get away from faster defenders. Jackson is talented, but his effectiveness drops when having to drive against bigger players. Milner is probably the most versatile player on the roster. Shumate has some size, but is not an inside player. The only NBA prospect I saw in MAC tournament was Preston of Ohio, and he was guy who had 2 scholarship offers coming out of high school.

Agreed. The MAC is just not very strong top to bottom. We finished with 21 wins, 16 of which came against MAC schools, and half of those came against teams that finished with losing records. And what we learned is that the MAC regular season champ can still lose by double-digits to a middle-of-the pack A-10 team that spots us their top 2 scorers and an 11 point lead early. Here’s hoping Ohio or Buffalo can pull off an upset in their games.

(03-18-2021 12:46 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Congrats on a nice season and something to build on. Take care.

Good luck to UMASS as well, and looking forward to a return trip in the fall... Did it last time...

(03-18-2021 08:01 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 12:46 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Congrats on a nice season and something to build on. Take care.

Good luck to UMASS as well, and looking forward to a return trip in the fall... Did it last time...

Same here but transfers and head scratching hires is feeding turmoil at UMass. The star, Tre is transferring and rumored at least 3 others. The whole Tres situation is really bad. UMass hired Tres Woodstock head coach, who is engaged to his mother. Almost half the players are from that single prep school. The feeling is McCall can not coach his way out of a paper bag. But we don't have a Million to buy him out.

Shoot me a PM or post if you are traveling to UMass. Have plans on visiting the Glass Bowl in 2022. Save the post about North Lot 10.

Cheers!

I am as disappointed as all of you in our poor performances in the postseason.

However, just to offer some perspective, here is a tweet that I saw:

"Before Tod K. Toledo had 1 season with at least 21 wins between 1981 and his first season (2010). He has done it 4 times including 3 of the last 4 years. Toledo only had 22 wins combined the 3 seasons before he became the coach."

Like all of you, I suffered through the Gene Cross years. As a result, I am so grateful for seasons of 20+ wins. Of course, we should expect to perform better during the postseason, and hopefully, TK can figure out a solution.

(03-18-2021 09:40 AM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  I am as disappointed as all of you in our poor performances in the postseason.

However, just to offer some perspective, here is a tweet that I saw:

"Before Tod K. Toledo had 1 season with at least 21 wins between 1981 and his first season (2010). He has done it 5 times including 3 of the last 4 years. Toledo only had 22 wins combined the 3 seasons before he became the coach."

Like all of you, I suffered through the Gene Cross years. As a result, I am so grateful for seasons of 20+ wins. Of course, we should expect to perform better during the postseason, and hopefully, TK can figure out a solution.

20 win MBB seasons are like 7 or 8 win CFB seasons-without a post season championship they get more meaningless every year, if you can't turn more of those into championship seasons they really are not much to celebrate year after year

[quote='RocketBBallFan' pid='17334556' dateline='1616078456']
I am as disappointed as all of you in our poor performances in the postseason.

However, just to offer some perspective, here is a tweet that I saw:

"Before Tod K. Toledo had 1 season with at least 21 wins between 1981 and his first season (2010). He has done it 4 times including 3 of the last 4 years. Toledo only had 22 wins combined the 3 seasons before he became the coach."

Like all of you, I suffered through the Gene Cross years. As a result, I am so grateful for seasons of 20+ wins. Of course, we should expect to perform better during the postseason, and hopefully, TK can figure out a solution.

Kind of cherry-picking your stats. You picked 1981 because it was the first year after Nichols’ excellent years. And before that we would win 20+ out of 23, 26, or 27. Nowadays, 20 wins is a watered down stat. Finally, I’m tired of hearing about Gene Cross. Yes, TK inherited a mess and yes he turned it around. But it isn’t unreasonable to expect that in 18 or so years of coaching, you might stumble into the dance once or twice just by luck. TK’s teams just wilt at the time of year when the good teams turn up the intensity a notch or two.

(03-18-2021 10:48 AM)rkt Wrote:  [quote='RocketBBallFan' pid='17334556' dateline='1616078456']
I am as disappointed as all of you in our poor performances in the postseason.

However, just to offer some perspective, here is a tweet that I saw:

"Before Tod K. Toledo had 1 season with at least 21 wins between 1981 and his first season (2010). He has done it 4 times including 3 of the last 4 years. Toledo only had 22 wins combined the 3 seasons before he became the coach."

Like all of you, I suffered through the Gene Cross years. As a result, I am so grateful for seasons of 20+ wins. Of course, we should expect to perform better during the postseason, and hopefully, TK can figure out a solution.

Kind of cherry-picking your stats. You picked 1981 because it was the first year after Nichols’ excellent years. And before that we would win 20+ out of 23, 26, or 27. Nowadays, 20 wins is a watered down stat. Finally, I’m tired of hearing about Gene Cross. Yes, TK inherited a mess and yes he turned it around. But it isn’t unreasonable to expect that in 18 or so years of coaching, you might stumble into the dance once or twice just by luck. TK’s teams just wilt at the time of year when the good teams turn up the intensity a notch or two.

The person who tweeted these stats chose 1981, I assume, because that was the first year after our last NCAA appearance. The purpose of the stat is to show that TK has been the most successful UT men's basketball coach during the past 41 years. I know the postseason performance isn't good enough, but I just wanted to provide some perspective.

Just curious. What is Joplin’s winning percentage vs TK’s? Jop coached against better competition but he also inherited a much better situation from Gipson than TK did from Cross.

(03-18-2021 11:16 AM)rkt Wrote:  Just curious. What is Joplin’s winning percentage vs TK’s? Jop coached against better competition but he also inherited a much better situation from Gipson than TK did from Cross.

Joplin was 203-155 (0.567) in 12 seasons

TK is 205-152 (0.574) in 11 seasons

(03-18-2021 11:23 AM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 11:16 AM)rkt Wrote:  Just curious. What is Joplin’s winning percentage vs TK’s? Jop coached against better competition but he also inherited a much better situation from Gipson than TK did from Cross.

Joplin was 203-155 (0.567) in 12 seasons

TK is 205-152 (0.574) in 11 seasons

Joplin wasn't released because he couldn't coach.

"A year ago, Joplin was named MAC Coach of the Year, but his Rockets just finished their season 11-19 and athletic director Mike O'Brien calls the last recruiting class a disappointment.

O'Brien says the program needs new direction and energy. He says the coach was surprised when he got the news Sunday.

O'Brien says the university is looking for a replacement who can excite the community and bring back season ticket holders".

But, he wasn't anymore effective than TK in MAC or Post season tourneys.

(03-18-2021 11:16 AM)rkt Wrote:  Just curious. What is Joplin’s winning percentage vs TK’s? Jop coached against better competition but he also inherited a much better situation from Gipson than TK did from Cross.

Don't forget TK's teams have played against:
#2 Duke
#2 Kansas
#4 Michigan
#13 Illinois
#15 VCU
#16 Kansas
#22 Temple
Cincinnati
Minnesota
Oregon
Boston College
Syracuse
Notre Dame

I watched the game last night but had to turn it off in the end...couldn’t watch it anymore. I’ve been a total Rocket fan for years.....and I’m running out of years too quickly. In reality the MAC is not a very good BB conference....certainly not an equal to the A10. I hate to admit it but I’ve always tended to over estimate our team based on how we do within the conference. The minute they noted last night that the Richmond coach had ties as a player and coach to Pete Carrill l knew were in trouble. Coach K can get multiple awards but he consistently gets out coached every time we play any decent teams and then we have to listen to his crap about why we lost. We were out rebounded, we couldn’t make any shots.....and he often mentions players by name for not playing well. I used to get really upset when we lost games like this but I’m beginning to face the reality that “you get what you get and don’t get upset!

(03-17-2021 08:34 PM)Macfan123 Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 08:29 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  This is why we can’t have nice things... But hey we got a brand new banner to hang in Savage... Big deal !!!
It would not surprise me to see Rollins transfer out, he deserves better...

Don’t feed into the negative energy!! Rockets had a great year just got tired out at the end, I really think rollins is the kid that gets us over the hump

I am going to retract the initial statement about Rollins leaving. If K can keep this incoming class intact with a legitimate PF transfer, next year could be better, but definitely not using a seven man rotation ...

Coaching isn't the problem - recruiting is. Toledo just doesn't get the athletes. It's that simple.

(03-18-2021 12:44 PM)Screwball Wrote:  Coaching isn't the problem - recruiting is. Toledo just doesn't get the athletes. It's that simple.

Can other MAC schools consistently get athletes or is it a conference issue?