The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(03-17-2021 11:07 AM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 06:56 AM)brovol Wrote:  If the last eight years have been what you all have wanted, and this has been "the program direction" you sought, then more power to you. This is exactly what I thought it would be, and I do not see it improving while in the NCHC. Third place has been our high water mark, and most years have been disappointing at best. North Dakota, Duluth, St Cloud and Denver are all about hockey, and will always be able to maintain a high level even in downish years. WMU has not shown the type of all out commitment to match what most of what the NCHC schools provide their programs; and frankly, either has the Bronco fan base. Sad but true. Having said that, you dont have to be in the "best" conference to win even national championships in college hockey. You do need to get to the NCAA tourney in order to win them though. Contrary to the collective wisdom here, the NCHC hasn't been the great route to the tourney that many expected.

One last thing. This is a message board. It is here to offer discussion to people who may have different views or points. I have been posting here for about 15 years I think. I obviously disagree with the large majority on this issue, but I have never understood why I get so much hate-mail for my comments. I am every bit the passionate Bronco alum that the rest of you are, and root for exactly the same thing. You would think that thoughtful minds would appreciate some dissent, and accept it as offering further dialog, rather than unsolicited nastiness. But i digress....

Some dissent? You make the same argument year after year while mischaracterizing those who disagree with you. That's your game.

If you're every bit as passionate as the rest of us about Bronco hockey, I look forward to your thoughts about the team on anything that doesn't involve moving to the failed WCHA/CCHA. We all are 100% clear where you stand on this issue.

What are your thoughts on the freshmen class this year? You think any seniors are going to come back next year on the COVID exemption? Are Kingtson & Kucharek going to be the same players they were before injuries? What did you think of Andy's coaching job after all of the graduations & the injuries to Kingston, Kucharek, & Bussi?

I have never mischaracterized anything. This thread included posts regarding our performance since entering the NCHC. I used to be the only one who questioned the wisdom of being in this conference, but apparently others wonder now too. I make the same points because they continue to be valid. If they were not valid then folks wouldnt be name calling in response, but would have a thoughtful discussion, weighing pro's and cons. It may be 100% clear what my position is; but it is just as clear what yours is too; yet you too restate it. Perhaps we are all beating a dead horse (Bronco), but stop being the pot calling the kettle black.

I used to post on the hockey board during games, but then whenever the Broncos were losing I became the target for folks to vent frustration. So I stopped posting. I still read the posts though. A few years ago, after a hot start to the season, even though I hadnt posted a thing, a few here began to taunt me for being so wrong about Western struggling in the NCHC (apparently believing that the first third of that season was more compelling evidence than the prior four or five seasons). Eventually I replied, but then took myself out of the in-season discussions. It became counterproductive, and frankly, I guess I shouldnt have posted on this thread either. I swear that people here are pissed that WMU has struggled the last eight years, and resent me for predicting it.

(03-17-2021 12:23 PM)MidwayIcer Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 11:07 AM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 06:56 AM)brovol Wrote:  If the last eight years have been what you all have wanted, and this has been "the program direction" you sought, then more power to you. This is exactly what I thought it would be, and I do not see it improving while in the NCHC. Third place has been our high water mark, and most years have been disappointing at best. North Dakota, Duluth, St Cloud and Denver are all about hockey, and will always be able to maintain a high level even in downish years. WMU has not shown the type of all out commitment to match what most of what the NCHC schools provide their programs; and frankly, either has the Bronco fan base. Sad but true. Having said that, you dont have to be in the "best" conference to win even national championships in college hockey. You do need to get to the NCAA tourney in order to win them though. Contrary to the collective wisdom here, the NCHC hasn't been the great route to the tourney that many expected.

One last thing. This is a message board. It is here to offer discussion to people who may have different views or points. I have been posting here for about 15 years I think. I obviously disagree with the large majority on this issue, but I have never understood why I get so much hate-mail for my comments. I am every bit the passionate Bronco alum that the rest of you are, and root for exactly the same thing. You would think that thoughtful minds would appreciate some dissent, and accept it as offering further dialog, rather than unsolicited nastiness. But i digress....

Some dissent? You make the same argument year after year while mischaracterizing those who disagree with you. That's your game.

If you're every bit as passionate as the rest of us about Bronco hockey, I look forward to your thoughts about the team on anything that doesn't involve moving to the failed WCHA/CCHA. We all are 100% clear where you stand on this issue.

What are your thoughts on the freshmen class this year? You think any seniors are going to come back next year on the COVID exemption? Are Kingtson & Kucharek going to be the same players they were before injuries? What did you think of Andy's coaching job after all of the graduations & the injuries to Kingston, Kucharek, & Bussi?

Well said, it is his game.

You, of all people, talking about "games". DB DB DB......

(03-17-2021 12:25 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 11:07 AM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 06:56 AM)brovol Wrote:  If the last eight years have been what you all have wanted, and this has been "the program direction" you sought, then more power to you. This is exactly what I thought it would be, and I do not see it improving while in the NCHC. Third place has been our high water mark, and most years have been disappointing at best. North Dakota, Duluth, St Cloud and Denver are all about hockey, and will always be able to maintain a high level even in downish years. WMU has not shown the type of all out commitment to match what most of what the NCHC schools provide their programs; and frankly, either has the Bronco fan base. Sad but true. Having said that, you dont have to be in the "best" conference to win even national championships in college hockey. You do need to get to the NCAA tourney in order to win them though. Contrary to the collective wisdom here, the NCHC hasn't been the great route to the tourney that many expected.

One last thing. This is a message board. It is here to offer discussion to people who may have different views or points. I have been posting here for about 15 years I think. I obviously disagree with the large majority on this issue, but I have never understood why I get so much hate-mail for my comments. I am every bit the passionate Bronco alum that the rest of you are, and root for exactly the same thing. You would think that thoughtful minds would appreciate some dissent, and accept it as offering further dialog, rather than unsolicited nastiness. But i digress....

Some dissent? You make the same argument year after year while mischaracterizing those who disagree with you. That's your game.

If you're every bit as passionate as the rest of us about Bronco hockey, I look forward to your thoughts about the team on anything that doesn't involve moving to the failed WCHA/CCHA. We all are 100% clear where you stand on this issue.

What are your thoughts on the freshmen class this year? You think any seniors are going to come back next year on the COVID exemption? Are Kingtson & Kucharek going to be the same players they were before injuries? What did you think of Andy's coaching job after all of the graduations & the injuries to Kingston, Kucharek, & Bussi?

I have never mischaracterized anything. This thread included posts regarding our performance since entering the NCHC. I used to be the only one who questioned the wisdom of being in this conference, but apparently others wonder now too. I make the same points because they continue to be valid. If they were not valid then folks wouldnt be name calling in response, but would have a thoughtful discussion, weighing pro's and cons. It may be 100% clear what my position is; but it is just as clear what yours is too; yet you too restate it. Perhaps we are all beating a dead horse (Bronco), but stop being the pot calling the kettle black.

I used to post on the hockey board during games, but then whenever the Broncos were losing I became the target for folks to vent frustration. So I stopped posting. I still read the posts though. A few years ago, after a hot start to the season, even though I hadnt posted a thing, a few here began to taunt me for being so wrong about Western struggling in the NCHC (apparently believing that the first third of that season was more compelling evidence than the prior four or five seasons). Eventually I replied, but then took myself out of the in-season discussions. It became counterproductive, and frankly, I guess I shouldnt have posted on this thread either. I swear that people here are pissed that WMU has struggled the last eight years, and resent me for predicting it.

It's funny how you lump in any response to your opinion on this as an attack. Add that to the list of mischaracterizations.

I would agree taking personal shots at you is lame & someone just got banned for doing that. I don't support that. I don't take personal shots at you & none of the regular hockey posters do that either. But, see...when we start to have this debate, you bring up ALL the personal attacks that have been launched at you by ALL of us mean Bronco hockey fans who think we should stay in the NCHC. Another mischaracterization.

We need to stay in the NCHC, just need a new coach. AM is 70 and it's clear after 8 years his style is not going to get it done in this conference.

Had some free time this afternoon and did some history, since the inaugural first season of the NCHC in the 13-14 season, here are the overall conference NCHC records of: WMU, Omaha, CC, and Miami. I didn't bother with Duluth, SCSU, Nodak or Denver as I know their overall records would be higher, but check this out:

Keep in mind, prior to the NCHC existence, CC AND Miami were both very successful programs in the CCHA / WCHA with some NCAA tourney trips between the two (Miami 09 National Championship runner up) as well as Omaha making a frozen four trip in 2015 and also had some success late in the CCHA conference.

13-14

WMU: 11-11-2
Miami: 6-17-1
Colorado College: 6-13-5
Omaha: 13-9-2

14-15

WMU: 6-12-5
Miami: 14-9-1
Colorado College: 2-19-3
Omaha: 12-8-4


15-16

WMU: 6-17-1
Miami: 9-13-2
Colorado College: 4-19-1
Omaha: 8-15-1


16-17

WMU: 13-11-2
Miami: 5-14-5
Colorado College: 4-16-4
Omaha: 9-13-2


17-18

WMU: 10-13-1
Miami:6-14-4
Colorado College: 8-12-4
Omaha: 10-13-1


18-19

WMU: 13-10-1
Miami: 5-17-2
Colorado College: 9-12-3
Omaha: 5-17-2


19-20

WMU: 12-9-3
Miami: 5-16-3
Colorado College: 4-17-3
Omaha: 8-13-3

20-21

WMU: 10-12-3
Miami: 5-18-2
Colorado College: 4-17-2
Omaha: 14-10-1

WMU OVERALL NCHC OVERALL RECORD: 81-95-18
OMAHA NCHC OVERALL RECORD: 79-98-16
MIAMI OVERALL NCHC OVERALL RECORD: 55-118-20
COLORADO COLLEGE NCHC OVERALL RECORD: 41-125-25



To say we dont belong in the NCHC or havent been successful is an understatement with that record above. We are competing with THE BEST and I would take almost a .500 overall record in the NCHC any day and with some out of conference wins, that can usually get you into the NCAA's any year due to our strength of schedule (pairwise).

AM is building something special in WMU and it was evident this year with this young group. I truly believe that if it wasnt for that stupid ass Covid shut down, last year's group would have been in the frozen four, they were playing the best hockey at the right time.

Like I said before, before AM retires, we will win a NCHC championship and make a frozen four appearance and hopefully win a national championship.

(03-17-2021 12:36 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 12:25 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 11:07 AM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 06:56 AM)brovol Wrote:  If the last eight years have been what you all have wanted, and this has been "the program direction" you sought, then more power to you. This is exactly what I thought it would be, and I do not see it improving while in the NCHC. Third place has been our high water mark, and most years have been disappointing at best. North Dakota, Duluth, St Cloud and Denver are all about hockey, and will always be able to maintain a high level even in downish years. WMU has not shown the type of all out commitment to match what most of what the NCHC schools provide their programs; and frankly, either has the Bronco fan base. Sad but true. Having said that, you dont have to be in the "best" conference to win even national championships in college hockey. You do need to get to the NCAA tourney in order to win them though. Contrary to the collective wisdom here, the NCHC hasn't been the great route to the tourney that many expected.

One last thing. This is a message board. It is here to offer discussion to people who may have different views or points. I have been posting here for about 15 years I think. I obviously disagree with the large majority on this issue, but I have never understood why I get so much hate-mail for my comments. I am every bit the passionate Bronco alum that the rest of you are, and root for exactly the same thing. You would think that thoughtful minds would appreciate some dissent, and accept it as offering further dialog, rather than unsolicited nastiness. But i digress....

Some dissent? You make the same argument year after year while mischaracterizing those who disagree with you. That's your game.

If you're every bit as passionate as the rest of us about Bronco hockey, I look forward to your thoughts about the team on anything that doesn't involve moving to the failed WCHA/CCHA. We all are 100% clear where you stand on this issue.

What are your thoughts on the freshmen class this year? You think any seniors are going to come back next year on the COVID exemption? Are Kingtson & Kucharek going to be the same players they were before injuries? What did you think of Andy's coaching job after all of the graduations & the injuries to Kingston, Kucharek, & Bussi?

I have never mischaracterized anything. This thread included posts regarding our performance since entering the NCHC. I used to be the only one who questioned the wisdom of being in this conference, but apparently others wonder now too. I make the same points because they continue to be valid. If they were not valid then folks wouldnt be name calling in response, but would have a thoughtful discussion, weighing pro's and cons. It may be 100% clear what my position is; but it is just as clear what yours is too; yet you too restate it. Perhaps we are all beating a dead horse (Bronco), but stop being the pot calling the kettle black.

I used to post on the hockey board during games, but then whenever the Broncos were losing I became the target for folks to vent frustration. So I stopped posting. I still read the posts though. A few years ago, after a hot start to the season, even though I hadnt posted a thing, a few here began to taunt me for being so wrong about Western struggling in the NCHC (apparently believing that the first third of that season was more compelling evidence than the prior four or five seasons). Eventually I replied, but then took myself out of the in-season discussions. It became counterproductive, and frankly, I guess I shouldnt have posted on this thread either. I swear that people here are pissed that WMU has struggled the last eight years, and resent me for predicting it.

It's funny how you lump in any response to your opinion on this as an attack. Add that to the list of mischaracterizations.

I would agree taking personal shots at you is lame & someone just got banned for doing that. I don't support that. I don't take personal shots at you & none of the regular hockey posters do that either. But, see...when we start to have this debate, you bring up ALL the personal attacks that have been launched at you by ALL of us mean Bronco hockey fans who think we should stay in the NCHC. Another mischaracterization.

I dont lump ANY response to my opinion as an attack. Please highlight where I said or suggested that. I did in fact get called out, without even having posted a single thing for months a couple years ago. I called that taunting. And that is what it was. I dont mind the posts which disagree with the substance of my comments. That is all good and fair. but you know as well as I do, when I post anything about the NCHC I get ridiculed just for commenting at all; as if this is a "safe space" for only pro-NCHC people.

It is funny that you so conspicuously mischaracterize my comments while claiming I mischaracterize, and need to mischaracterize my comments in order to do so. Rich stuff. Read the posts on this and other threads.

I already conceded that perhaps I should have just avoided posting; not because I shouldn't comment, but because there is so much bitterness when I do.

(03-17-2021 12:01 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 09:47 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 06:56 AM)brovol Wrote:  Having said that, you dont have to be in the "best" conference to win even national championships in college hockey. You do need to get to the NCAA tourney in order to win them though. Contrary to the collective wisdom here, the NCHC hasn't been the great route to the tourney that many expected.

It's true, you don't have to be in the best conference to win a championship but let's look at the data. The NCHC has won 4 out of the 6 national championships since the leagues split up.

The WCHA combined has Two NCAA wins total since the realignment.

How many NCHC teams have been winning those championships? ND and Duluth will win championships in whatever league they are in. The question is how likely it is that 1) WMU will get in the NCAA tournament, and 2) how we will do if we get in. The NCHC has some really elite hockey schools, and those schools are bidding for a championship every year. We can play with them on any given week, but has this been an situation where those schools have benefited by WMU being in the NCHC, or has WMU benefited from those schools? Respectfully, I think it is the former.

3 of the 8 teams in the NCHC have won championships since the realignment, and Every team other than CC has made the tournament at least once.

Only 4 of the 10 (now 8) teams in the WCHA have made the tournament since the realignment.

Not only are more teams from the NCHC making the tournament, they're winning more games.

(03-17-2021 01:08 PM)Broncodan Wrote:  Had some free time this afternoon and did some history, since the inaugural first season of the NCHC in the 13-14 season, here are the overall conference NCHC records of: WMU, Omaha, CC, and Miami. I didn't bother with Duluth, SCSU, Nodak or Denver as I know their overall records would be higher, but check this out:

Keep in mind, prior to the NCHC existence, CC AND Miami were both very successful programs in the CCHA / WCHA with some NCAA tourney trips between the two (Miami 09 National Championship runner up) as well as Omaha making a frozen four trip in 2015 and also had some success late in the CCHA conference.

13-14

WMU: 11-11-2
Miami: 6-17-1
Colorado College: 6-13-5
Omaha: 13-9-2

14-15

WMU: 6-12-5
Miami: 14-9-1
Colorado College: 2-19-3
Omaha: 12-8-4


15-16

WMU: 6-17-1
Miami: 9-13-2
Colorado College: 4-19-1
Omaha: 8-15-1


16-17

WMU: 13-11-2
Miami: 5-14-5
Colorado College: 4-16-4
Omaha: 9-13-2


17-18

WMU: 10-13-1
Miami:6-14-4
Colorado College: 8-12-4
Omaha: 10-13-1


18-19

WMU: 13-10-1
Miami: 5-17-2
Colorado College: 9-12-3
Omaha: 5-17-2


19-20

WMU: 12-9-3
Miami: 5-16-3
Colorado College: 4-17-3
Omaha: 8-13-3

20-21

WMU: 10-12-3
Miami: 5-18-2
Colorado College: 4-17-2
Omaha: 14-10-1

WMU OVERALL NCHC OVERALL RECORD: 81-95-18
OMAHA NCHC OVERALL RECORD: 79-98-16
MIAMI OVERALL NCHC OVERALL RECORD: 55-118-20
COLORADO COLLEGE NCHC OVERALL RECORD: 41-125-25



To say we dont belong in the NCHC or havent been successful is an understatement with that record above. We are competing with THE BEST and I would take almost a .500 overall record in the NCHC any day and with some out of conference wins, that can usually get you into the NCAA's any year due to our strength of schedule (pairwise).

AM is building something special in WMU and it was evident this year with this young group. I truly believe that if it wasnt for that stupid ass Covid shut down, last year's group would have been in the frozen four, they were playing the best hockey at the right time.

Like I said before, before AM retires, we will win a NCHC championship and make a frozen four appearance and hopefully win a national championship.

But we were apparently 14 games below 500 during that period, and had one NCAA bid in 8 years, losing that game to AF of the Atlantic. Its hard not to consider North Dakota, Duluth, St Cloud, and Denver in the equation, because they are the teams who consistently finish above us in the standings, and who keep our record modest enough that we miss out on the NCAA.

Your point is well taken, and I agree that WMU has had teams which would have finished higher, and perhaps made more NCAA tournaments, if they were in most other conferences. But, for eight years our record of success is what it is. I think that it would make sense to be in this league if we were to become one of those top three or four programs. But that takes a huge commitment from the school. I just haven't seen much to conclude that such an investment is forthcoming.

I agree with you that AM is a good and capable coach. I have never advocate letting him go. I think he would be a tough guy to beat if he were coaching at ND, Duluth, Denver, or a number of other schools who really invest in their hockey programs.

(03-17-2021 01:21 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 12:01 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 09:47 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 06:56 AM)brovol Wrote:  Having said that, you dont have to be in the "best" conference to win even national championships in college hockey. You do need to get to the NCAA tourney in order to win them though. Contrary to the collective wisdom here, the NCHC hasn't been the great route to the tourney that many expected.

It's true, you don't have to be in the best conference to win a championship but let's look at the data. The NCHC has won 4 out of the 6 national championships since the leagues split up.

The WCHA combined has Two NCAA wins total since the realignment.

How many NCHC teams have been winning those championships? ND and Duluth will win championships in whatever league they are in. The question is how likely it is that 1) WMU will get in the NCAA tournament, and 2) how we will do if we get in. The NCHC has some really elite hockey schools, and those schools are bidding for a championship every year. We can play with them on any given week, but has this been an situation where those schools have benefited by WMU being in the NCHC, or has WMU benefited from those schools? Respectfully, I think it is the former.

3 of the 8 teams in the NCHC have won championships since the realignment, and Every team other than CC has made the tournament at least once.

Only 4 of the 10 (now 8) teams in the WCHA have made the tournament since the realignment.

Not only are more teams from the NCHC making the tournament, they're winning more games.

All completely legitimate and good points! And I agree that the NCHC is a much better conference than the WCHA/CCHA. I have always conceded that. I think though that if you put ND and Duluth in the WCHA/CCHA, that league would have the championships. It has less to do with the conference than it does with the top two or three programs. But your points are well made and taken.

(03-17-2021 01:08 PM)Broncodan Wrote:  Had some free time this afternoon and did some history, since the inaugural first season of the NCHC in the 13-14 season, here are the overall conference NCHC records of: WMU, Omaha, CC, and Miami. I didn't bother with Duluth, SCSU, Nodak or Denver as I know their overall records would be higher, but check this out:

Keep in mind, prior to the NCHC existence, CC AND Miami were both very successful programs in the CCHA / WCHA with some NCAA tourney trips between the two (Miami 09 National Championship runner up) as well as Omaha making a frozen four trip in 2015 and also had some success late in the CCHA conference.

13-14

WMU: 11-11-2
Miami: 6-17-1
Colorado College: 6-13-5
Omaha: 13-9-2

14-15

WMU: 6-12-5
Miami: 14-9-1
Colorado College: 2-19-3
Omaha: 12-8-4


15-16

WMU: 6-17-1
Miami: 9-13-2
Colorado College: 4-19-1
Omaha: 8-15-1


16-17

WMU: 13-11-2
Miami: 5-14-5
Colorado College: 4-16-4
Omaha: 9-13-2


17-18

WMU: 10-13-1
Miami:6-14-4
Colorado College: 8-12-4
Omaha: 10-13-1


18-19

WMU: 13-10-1
Miami: 5-17-2
Colorado College: 9-12-3
Omaha: 5-17-2


19-20

WMU: 12-9-3
Miami: 5-16-3
Colorado College: 4-17-3
Omaha: 8-13-3

20-21

WMU: 10-12-3
Miami: 5-18-2
Colorado College: 4-17-2
Omaha: 14-10-1

WMU OVERALL NCHC OVERALL RECORD: 81-95-18
OMAHA NCHC OVERALL RECORD: 79-98-16
MIAMI OVERALL NCHC OVERALL RECORD: 55-118-20
COLORADO COLLEGE NCHC OVERALL RECORD: 41-125-25



To say we dont belong in the NCHC or havent been successful is an understatement with that record above. We are competing with THE BEST and I would take almost a .500 overall record in the NCHC any day and with some out of conference wins, that can usually get you into the NCAA's any year due to our strength of schedule (pairwise).

AM is building something special in WMU and it was evident this year with this young group. I truly believe that if it wasnt for that stupid ass Covid shut down, last year's group would have been in the frozen four, they were playing the best hockey at the right time.

Like I said before, before AM retires, we will win a NCHC championship and make a frozen four appearance and hopefully win a national championship.

I like this post, & I flip back & forth between NCHC & WCHA/CCHA. We've been 'fine' in the NCHC & have by no means been cellar-dwellers. Seems like we typically finish anywhere between 3rd & 5th.

But when does that become not good enough, & the desire go away from 'fine' to 'great'?

Also, kind of on a related/unreleated note, how much longer do we think AM will coach until he retires? I don't mean this as an attack on him or to be part of the debate. Just curious. Another 5 years tops? Or could he go another 10?

(03-17-2021 01:20 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 12:36 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 12:25 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 11:07 AM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 06:56 AM)brovol Wrote:  If the last eight years have been what you all have wanted, and this has been "the program direction" you sought, then more power to you. This is exactly what I thought it would be, and I do not see it improving while in the NCHC. Third place has been our high water mark, and most years have been disappointing at best. North Dakota, Duluth, St Cloud and Denver are all about hockey, and will always be able to maintain a high level even in downish years. WMU has not shown the type of all out commitment to match what most of what the NCHC schools provide their programs; and frankly, either has the Bronco fan base. Sad but true. Having said that, you dont have to be in the "best" conference to win even national championships in college hockey. You do need to get to the NCAA tourney in order to win them though. Contrary to the collective wisdom here, the NCHC hasn't been the great route to the tourney that many expected.

One last thing. This is a message board. It is here to offer discussion to people who may have different views or points. I have been posting here for about 15 years I think. I obviously disagree with the large majority on this issue, but I have never understood why I get so much hate-mail for my comments. I am every bit the passionate Bronco alum that the rest of you are, and root for exactly the same thing. You would think that thoughtful minds would appreciate some dissent, and accept it as offering further dialog, rather than unsolicited nastiness. But i digress....

Some dissent? You make the same argument year after year while mischaracterizing those who disagree with you. That's your game.

If you're every bit as passionate as the rest of us about Bronco hockey, I look forward to your thoughts about the team on anything that doesn't involve moving to the failed WCHA/CCHA. We all are 100% clear where you stand on this issue.

What are your thoughts on the freshmen class this year? You think any seniors are going to come back next year on the COVID exemption? Are Kingtson & Kucharek going to be the same players they were before injuries? What did you think of Andy's coaching job after all of the graduations & the injuries to Kingston, Kucharek, & Bussi?

I have never mischaracterized anything. This thread included posts regarding our performance since entering the NCHC. I used to be the only one who questioned the wisdom of being in this conference, but apparently others wonder now too. I make the same points because they continue to be valid. If they were not valid then folks wouldnt be name calling in response, but would have a thoughtful discussion, weighing pro's and cons. It may be 100% clear what my position is; but it is just as clear what yours is too; yet you too restate it. Perhaps we are all beating a dead horse (Bronco), but stop being the pot calling the kettle black.

I used to post on the hockey board during games, but then whenever the Broncos were losing I became the target for folks to vent frustration. So I stopped posting. I still read the posts though. A few years ago, after a hot start to the season, even though I hadnt posted a thing, a few here began to taunt me for being so wrong about Western struggling in the NCHC (apparently believing that the first third of that season was more compelling evidence than the prior four or five seasons). Eventually I replied, but then took myself out of the in-season discussions. It became counterproductive, and frankly, I guess I shouldnt have posted on this thread either. I swear that people here are pissed that WMU has struggled the last eight years, and resent me for predicting it.

It's funny how you lump in any response to your opinion on this as an attack. Add that to the list of mischaracterizations.

I would agree taking personal shots at you is lame & someone just got banned for doing that. I don't support that. I don't take personal shots at you & none of the regular hockey posters do that either. But, see...when we start to have this debate, you bring up ALL the personal attacks that have been launched at you by ALL of us mean Bronco hockey fans who think we should stay in the NCHC. Another mischaracterization.

I dont lump ANY response to my opinion as an attack. Please highlight where I said or suggested that. I did in fact get called out, without even having posted a single thing for months a couple years ago. I called that taunting. And that is what it was. I dont mind the posts which disagree with the substance of my comments. That is all good and fair. but you know as well as I do, when I post anything about the NCHC I get ridiculed just for commenting at all; as if this is a "safe space" for only pro-NCHC people.

It is funny that you so conspicuously mischaracterize my comments while claiming I mischaracterize, and need to mischaracterize my comments in order to do so. Rich stuff. Read the posts on this and other threads.

I already conceded that perhaps I should have just avoided posting; not because I shouldn't comment, but because there is so much bitterness when I do.

Yes, you call it "taunting". I got it.

What do you call jumping in a thread titled "Western Michigan vs Minnesota Duluth @ NoDak" hours after our boys lost 5-4 in OT to the two time defending national champs to get your NCHC vs failed WCHA/CCHA take in AGAIN?

(03-17-2021 03:26 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 01:20 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 12:36 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 12:25 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 11:07 AM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  Some dissent? You make the same argument year after year while mischaracterizing those who disagree with you. That's your game.

If you're every bit as passionate as the rest of us about Bronco hockey, I look forward to your thoughts about the team on anything that doesn't involve moving to the failed WCHA/CCHA. We all are 100% clear where you stand on this issue.

What are your thoughts on the freshmen class this year? You think any seniors are going to come back next year on the COVID exemption? Are Kingtson & Kucharek going to be the same players they were before injuries? What did you think of Andy's coaching job after all of the graduations & the injuries to Kingston, Kucharek, & Bussi?

I have never mischaracterized anything. This thread included posts regarding our performance since entering the NCHC. I used to be the only one who questioned the wisdom of being in this conference, but apparently others wonder now too. I make the same points because they continue to be valid. If they were not valid then folks wouldnt be name calling in response, but would have a thoughtful discussion, weighing pro's and cons. It may be 100% clear what my position is; but it is just as clear what yours is too; yet you too restate it. Perhaps we are all beating a dead horse (Bronco), but stop being the pot calling the kettle black.

I used to post on the hockey board during games, but then whenever the Broncos were losing I became the target for folks to vent frustration. So I stopped posting. I still read the posts though. A few years ago, after a hot start to the season, even though I hadnt posted a thing, a few here began to taunt me for being so wrong about Western struggling in the NCHC (apparently believing that the first third of that season was more compelling evidence than the prior four or five seasons). Eventually I replied, but then took myself out of the in-season discussions. It became counterproductive, and frankly, I guess I shouldnt have posted on this thread either. I swear that people here are pissed that WMU has struggled the last eight years, and resent me for predicting it.

It's funny how you lump in any response to your opinion on this as an attack. Add that to the list of mischaracterizations.

I would agree taking personal shots at you is lame & someone just got banned for doing that. I don't support that. I don't take personal shots at you & none of the regular hockey posters do that either. But, see...when we start to have this debate, you bring up ALL the personal attacks that have been launched at you by ALL of us mean Bronco hockey fans who think we should stay in the NCHC. Another mischaracterization.

I dont lump ANY response to my opinion as an attack. Please highlight where I said or suggested that. I did in fact get called out, without even having posted a single thing for months a couple years ago. I called that taunting. And that is what it was. I dont mind the posts which disagree with the substance of my comments. That is all good and fair. but you know as well as I do, when I post anything about the NCHC I get ridiculed just for commenting at all; as if this is a "safe space" for only pro-NCHC people.

It is funny that you so conspicuously mischaracterize my comments while claiming I mischaracterize, and need to mischaracterize my comments in order to do so. Rich stuff. Read the posts on this and other threads.

I already conceded that perhaps I should have just avoided posting; not because I shouldn't comment, but because there is so much bitterness when I do.

Yes, you call it "taunting". I got it.

What do you call jumping in a thread titled "Western Michigan vs Minnesota Duluth @ NoDak" hours after our boys lost 5-4 in OT to the two time defending national champs to get your NCHC vs failed WCHA/CCHA take in AGAIN?

Did you read the posts prior to my comments? I think not. You are speaking out of school; again.

(03-16-2021 10:53 PM)MidwayIcer Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:36 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  Wow. Brovol and I agree on something. That pumps me up!

But yeah. The responses aren't shocking in here. We view the NCHC like some shiny new toy that we don't want to get taken away from us because the cool kids won't view us as good as them anymore. It's not a good fit for us, at all. It's obvious the Kalamazoo community doesn't care about the teams we bring into Lawson when we have top 5 teams come in on weekends and the place is half-full. We can stay in the NCHC and get to the NCAA tournament once a decade or we can go to a new CCHA with BGSU, Miami, LSSU, NMU, Tech, Ferris, Bemijidi/St. Thomas/Minnesota St. and be the cream of the crop. I know what I'm choosing. It's not that hard of a decision.

That's simply not true about the crowds. We were averaging 86.3% capacity in 2019/20.

https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/d...2019-2020/

Miami isn't leaving the NCHC. Where do you get your info?

Lol. Those figures are tickets sold. C'mon dude. I've been to more than 75% of home games in the last 5-6 years. We ain't selling out Lawson. We can barely get the student section full and leave a full section on each end empty most of the time. I get my info from multiple people I trust from multiple levels of the WMU athletic department and have been spot on with all of the things I post in here (athletic rebrand, basketball staff changes, the PJ Fleck/KB/Dunn nonsense). I played back in the day and have kept in contact with lots of people in the department. I'd post more if I thought they wouldn't get in trouble for me sharing what is confidential information. Sorry you don't have the same access I do. Miami would leave the NCHC tomorrow if the buy-out wasn't so expensive.

(03-17-2021 07:54 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:53 PM)MidwayIcer Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:36 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  Wow. Brovol and I agree on something. That pumps me up!

But yeah. The responses aren't shocking in here. We view the NCHC like some shiny new toy that we don't want to get taken away from us because the cool kids won't view us as good as them anymore. It's not a good fit for us, at all. It's obvious the Kalamazoo community doesn't care about the teams we bring into Lawson when we have top 5 teams come in on weekends and the place is half-full. We can stay in the NCHC and get to the NCAA tournament once a decade or we can go to a new CCHA with BGSU, Miami, LSSU, NMU, Tech, Ferris, Bemijidi/St. Thomas/Minnesota St. and be the cream of the crop. I know what I'm choosing. It's not that hard of a decision.

That's simply not true about the crowds. We were averaging 86.3% capacity in 2019/20.

https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/d...2019-2020/

Miami isn't leaving the NCHC. Where do you get your info?

Lol. Those figures are tickets sold. C'mon dude. I've been to more than 75% of home games in the last 5-6 years. We ain't selling out Lawson. We can barely get the student section full and leave a full section on each end empty most of the time. I get my info from multiple people I trust from multiple levels of the WMU athletic department and have been spot on with all of the things I post in here (athletic rebrand, basketball staff changes, the PJ Fleck/KB/Dunn nonsense). I played back in the day and have kept in contact with lots of people in the department. I'd post more if I thought they wouldn't get in trouble for me sharing what is confidential information. Sorry you don't have the same access I do. Miami would leave the NCHC tomorrow if the buy-out wasn't so expensive.

So WMU is lying about it's attendance numbers? That's interesting. Edit: You're saying the tickets sold but people aren't coming? Not sure changing conferences to have LSSU coming in is going to change that aspect.

So you obviously know, I'll ask right out. Is the hockey program going to the CCHA?

(03-17-2021 07:13 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 03:26 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 01:20 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 12:36 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 12:25 PM)brovol Wrote:  I have never mischaracterized anything. This thread included posts regarding our performance since entering the NCHC. I used to be the only one who questioned the wisdom of being in this conference, but apparently others wonder now too. I make the same points because they continue to be valid. If they were not valid then folks wouldnt be name calling in response, but would have a thoughtful discussion, weighing pro's and cons. It may be 100% clear what my position is; but it is just as clear what yours is too; yet you too restate it. Perhaps we are all beating a dead horse (Bronco), but stop being the pot calling the kettle black.

I used to post on the hockey board during games, but then whenever the Broncos were losing I became the target for folks to vent frustration. So I stopped posting. I still read the posts though. A few years ago, after a hot start to the season, even though I hadnt posted a thing, a few here began to taunt me for being so wrong about Western struggling in the NCHC (apparently believing that the first third of that season was more compelling evidence than the prior four or five seasons). Eventually I replied, but then took myself out of the in-season discussions. It became counterproductive, and frankly, I guess I shouldnt have posted on this thread either. I swear that people here are pissed that WMU has struggled the last eight years, and resent me for predicting it.

It's funny how you lump in any response to your opinion on this as an attack. Add that to the list of mischaracterizations.

I would agree taking personal shots at you is lame & someone just got banned for doing that. I don't support that. I don't take personal shots at you & none of the regular hockey posters do that either. But, see...when we start to have this debate, you bring up ALL the personal attacks that have been launched at you by ALL of us mean Bronco hockey fans who think we should stay in the NCHC. Another mischaracterization.

I dont lump ANY response to my opinion as an attack. Please highlight where I said or suggested that. I did in fact get called out, without even having posted a single thing for months a couple years ago. I called that taunting. And that is what it was. I dont mind the posts which disagree with the substance of my comments. That is all good and fair. but you know as well as I do, when I post anything about the NCHC I get ridiculed just for commenting at all; as if this is a "safe space" for only pro-NCHC people.

It is funny that you so conspicuously mischaracterize my comments while claiming I mischaracterize, and need to mischaracterize my comments in order to do so. Rich stuff. Read the posts on this and other threads.

I already conceded that perhaps I should have just avoided posting; not because I shouldn't comment, but because there is so much bitterness when I do.

Yes, you call it "taunting". I got it.

What do you call jumping in a thread titled "Western Michigan vs Minnesota Duluth @ NoDak" hours after our boys lost 5-4 in OT to the two time defending national champs to get your NCHC vs failed WCHA/CCHA take in AGAIN?

Did you read the posts prior to my comments? I think not. You are speaking out of school; again.

"speaking out of school; again". Another mischaracterization. That's what you do. All I did was ask you a question.

Any thoughts on the team this year? Or do you just study the failed WCHA conference and all its majesty?

(03-17-2021 09:05 PM)MidwayIcer Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 07:54 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:53 PM)MidwayIcer Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:36 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  Wow. Brovol and I agree on something. That pumps me up!

But yeah. The responses aren't shocking in here. We view the NCHC like some shiny new toy that we don't want to get taken away from us because the cool kids won't view us as good as them anymore. It's not a good fit for us, at all. It's obvious the Kalamazoo community doesn't care about the teams we bring into Lawson when we have top 5 teams come in on weekends and the place is half-full. We can stay in the NCHC and get to the NCAA tournament once a decade or we can go to a new CCHA with BGSU, Miami, LSSU, NMU, Tech, Ferris, Bemijidi/St. Thomas/Minnesota St. and be the cream of the crop. I know what I'm choosing. It's not that hard of a decision.

That's simply not true about the crowds. We were averaging 86.3% capacity in 2019/20.

https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/d...2019-2020/

Miami isn't leaving the NCHC. Where do you get your info?

Lol. Those figures are tickets sold. C'mon dude. I've been to more than 75% of home games in the last 5-6 years. We ain't selling out Lawson. We can barely get the student section full and leave a full section on each end empty most of the time. I get my info from multiple people I trust from multiple levels of the WMU athletic department and have been spot on with all of the things I post in here (athletic rebrand, basketball staff changes, the PJ Fleck/KB/Dunn nonsense). I played back in the day and have kept in contact with lots of people in the department. I'd post more if I thought they wouldn't get in trouble for me sharing what is confidential information. Sorry you don't have the same access I do. Miami would leave the NCHC tomorrow if the buy-out wasn't so expensive.

So WMU is lying about it's attendance numbers? That's interesting. Edit: You're saying the tickets sold but people aren't coming? Not sure changing conferences to have LSSU coming in is going to change that aspect.

So you obviously know, I'll ask right out. Is the hockey program going to the CCHA?

Nobody is lying about attendance numbers. That's literally tickets sold. So season ticket holders or tickets that are given out to corporations are included in that. Even if people don't show up or Coca-Cola doesn't use their allotment of the seats - they still include those tickets in attendance. I think people in Kalamazoo know who Ferris State or Michigan Tech or LSSU are and have brand identity for them over Omaha or Minnesota-Duluth.

The hockey program isn't moving for the time being. College hockey is going to have a realignment in the next 2-3 years to reset a system that isn't working. I wouldn't be shocked to see the NCHC and CCHA trade some teams back and forth.

(03-18-2021 07:23 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 09:05 PM)MidwayIcer Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 07:54 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:53 PM)MidwayIcer Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:36 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  Wow. Brovol and I agree on something. That pumps me up!

But yeah. The responses aren't shocking in here. We view the NCHC like some shiny new toy that we don't want to get taken away from us because the cool kids won't view us as good as them anymore. It's not a good fit for us, at all. It's obvious the Kalamazoo community doesn't care about the teams we bring into Lawson when we have top 5 teams come in on weekends and the place is half-full. We can stay in the NCHC and get to the NCAA tournament once a decade or we can go to a new CCHA with BGSU, Miami, LSSU, NMU, Tech, Ferris, Bemijidi/St. Thomas/Minnesota St. and be the cream of the crop. I know what I'm choosing. It's not that hard of a decision.

That's simply not true about the crowds. We were averaging 86.3% capacity in 2019/20.

https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/d...2019-2020/

Miami isn't leaving the NCHC. Where do you get your info?

Lol. Those figures are tickets sold. C'mon dude. I've been to more than 75% of home games in the last 5-6 years. We ain't selling out Lawson. We can barely get the student section full and leave a full section on each end empty most of the time. I get my info from multiple people I trust from multiple levels of the WMU athletic department and have been spot on with all of the things I post in here (athletic rebrand, basketball staff changes, the PJ Fleck/KB/Dunn nonsense). I played back in the day and have kept in contact with lots of people in the department. I'd post more if I thought they wouldn't get in trouble for me sharing what is confidential information. Sorry you don't have the same access I do. Miami would leave the NCHC tomorrow if the buy-out wasn't so expensive.

So WMU is lying about it's attendance numbers? That's interesting. Edit: You're saying the tickets sold but people aren't coming? Not sure changing conferences to have LSSU coming in is going to change that aspect.

So you obviously know, I'll ask right out. Is the hockey program going to the CCHA?

Nobody is lying about attendance numbers. That's literally tickets sold. So season ticket holders or tickets that are given out to corporations are included in that. Even if people don't show up or Coca-Cola doesn't use their allotment of the seats - they still include those tickets in attendance. I think people in Kalamazoo know who Ferris State or Michigan Tech or LSSU are and have brand identity for them over Omaha or Minnesota-Duluth.

The hockey program isn't moving for the time being. College hockey is going to have a realignment in the next 2-3 years to reset a system that isn't working. I wouldn't be shocked to see the NCHC and CCHA trade some teams back and forth.

Trolled. That's what I thought.

Most experts have 5 NCHC teams possibly in: Nodak, Duluth, SCSU, Omaha and Denver.

Just goes to show you how close we were

(03-18-2021 08:14 PM)MidwayIcer Wrote:  

(03-18-2021 07:23 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 09:05 PM)MidwayIcer Wrote:  

(03-17-2021 07:54 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  

(03-16-2021 10:53 PM)MidwayIcer Wrote:  That's simply not true about the crowds. We were averaging 86.3% capacity in 2019/20.

https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/d...2019-2020/

Miami isn't leaving the NCHC. Where do you get your info?

Lol. Those figures are tickets sold. C'mon dude. I've been to more than 75% of home games in the last 5-6 years. We ain't selling out Lawson. We can barely get the student section full and leave a full section on each end empty most of the time. I get my info from multiple people I trust from multiple levels of the WMU athletic department and have been spot on with all of the things I post in here (athletic rebrand, basketball staff changes, the PJ Fleck/KB/Dunn nonsense). I played back in the day and have kept in contact with lots of people in the department. I'd post more if I thought they wouldn't get in trouble for me sharing what is confidential information. Sorry you don't have the same access I do. Miami would leave the NCHC tomorrow if the buy-out wasn't so expensive.

So WMU is lying about it's attendance numbers? That's interesting. Edit: You're saying the tickets sold but people aren't coming? Not sure changing conferences to have LSSU coming in is going to change that aspect.

So you obviously know, I'll ask right out. Is the hockey program going to the CCHA?

Nobody is lying about attendance numbers. That's literally tickets sold. So season ticket holders or tickets that are given out to corporations are included in that. Even if people don't show up or Coca-Cola doesn't use their allotment of the seats - they still include those tickets in attendance. I think people in Kalamazoo know who Ferris State or Michigan Tech or LSSU are and have brand identity for them over Omaha or Minnesota-Duluth.

The hockey program isn't moving for the time being. College hockey is going to have a realignment in the next 2-3 years to reset a system that isn't working. I wouldn't be shocked to see the NCHC and CCHA trade some teams back and forth.

Trolled. That's what I thought.

Dude. What are you even talking about? Nobody said "WMU is joining the CCHA". I said "Let's go join the CCHA" because that's my own personal opinion. Go take a lap.

(03-19-2021 07:56 AM)Broncodan Wrote:  Most experts have 5 NCHC teams possibly in: Nodak, Duluth, SCSU, Omaha and Denver.

Just goes to show you how close we were

That would surprise me. It's hard to justify taking Denver this year. I don't know how the committee can say one league is THAT dominant in a year when OOC games weren't played.