Both Jabari Rice and Will McNair redshirted upon their arrival to NMSU, I'm not sure if either was a prop 48 kid or just held back for further skills development? However, Jans really doesn't really use the prop 48 process too often. He did tried to bring in Carl Lewis as a prop 48 signee but Lewis chose to to go pro instead of staying with the Aggie program. And, I think is Jaquan Scott was another HS player NMSU was looking at as a prop 48 signee, but Scot chose to go to prep school in Florida instead. Both parties have since moved on. The DABCC campus in close proximity to the NMSU main campus simply gives the Aggie basketball program the option to recruit and redshirt kids who would otherwise need to go the more expensive prep school route or Junior College route. Marvin Menzies used this method of recruiting quite often. This does allow NMSU to get high caliber players that just need more time to get on a solid academic footing.
I don't think NMSU fans thinks its a dark secret. We are quite up front about it. These prop 48 kids are still required to meet APR requirements. It just gives NMSU a recruiting edge over the typical mid-major. Our school needs to take advantage of every opportunity to stay on top. Which other school has its own line of alcoholic beverages and is expanding into other products?
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2021 01:31 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
(03-15-2021 01:25 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: Both Jabari Rice and Will McNair redshirted upon their arrival to NMSU, I'm not sure if either was a prop 48 kid or just held back for further skills development? However, Jans really doesn't really use the prop 48 process too often. He did tried to bring in Carl Lewis as a prop 48 signee but Lewis chose to to go pro instead of staying with the Aggie program. And, I think is Jaquan Scott was another HS player NMSU was looking at as a prop 48 signee, but Scot chose to go to prep school in Florida instead. Both parties have since moved on. The DABCC campus in close proximity to the NMSU main campus simply gives the Aggie basketball program the option to recruit and redshirt kids who would otherwise need to go the more expensive prep school route or Junior College route. Marvin Menzies used this method of recruiting quite often. This does allow NMSU to get high caliber players that just need more time to get on a solid academic footing.
I don't think NMSU fans thinks its a dark secret. We are quite up front about it. These prop 48 kids are still required to meet APR requirements. It just gives NMSU a recruiting edge over the typical mid-major. Our school needs to take advantage of every opportunity to stay on top. Which other school has its own line of alcoholic beverages and is expanding into other products?
Guessing it's the same one who writes intoxication into the school's fight song? Wobble on, amirite?
(03-15-2021 01:25 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: Both Jabari Rice and Will McNair redshirted upon their arrival to NMSU, I'm not sure if either was a prop 48 kid or just held back for further skills development? However, Jans really doesn't really use the prop 48 process too often. He did tried to bring in Carl Lewis as a prop 48 signee but Lewis chose to to go pro instead of staying with the Aggie program. And, I think is Jaquan Scott was another HS player NMSU was looking at as a prop 48 signee, but Scot chose to go to prep school in Florida instead. Both parties have since moved on. The DABCC campus in close proximity to the NMSU main campus simply gives the Aggie basketball program the option to recruit and redshirt kids who would otherwise need to go the more expensive prep school route or Junior College route. Marvin Menzies used this method of recruiting quite often. This does allow NMSU to get high caliber players that just need more time to get on a solid academic footing.
I don't think NMSU fans thinks its a dark secret. We are quite up front about it. These prop 48 kids are still required to meet APR requirements. It just gives NMSU a recruiting edge over the typical mid-major. Our school needs to take advantage of every opportunity to stay on top. Which other school has its own line of alcoholic beverages and is expanding into other products?
Guessing it's the same one who writes intoxication into the school's fight song? Wobble on, amirite?
Yes, and a mascot who sports two six-shooters and also puts them on our team uniforms. No one can accuse NMSU of being politically correct. We march to our own beat. And, some basketball prospects like that.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2021 01:46 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
(03-15-2021 11:14 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: Now, do I think NMSU will dominate the WAC too the level that it has the last 8-9 years, probably not. But I think NMSU will win the WAC Tournament championship just enough to be the program most feared to meet in the conference tournament. This season's WAC tournament (again) when through NMSU. However, GCU was up to the task this season due the addition of Midtgaard. He changed the way NMSU had to defend this GCU team; the only player NMSU had to double team leaving GCU shooters open while he cleaned up (rebounding) the misses.
Now that Jans has an understanding of WAC personnel, he will recruit with that in mind in the next recruiting class; by either finding more prolific scorers or the size to negate some WAC teams size. NMSU was able to sink down on Aimaq because they did not have the perimeter shooter to make NMSU pay. You can bet Madsen will be looking to sign better perimeter shooters for next season. Or, work on three point shooting with the players he currently has on the roster. And on it goes with each coach in the off-season. but I digest.
Back to my point, NMSU will adjust to the increase in talent shift next season. NMSU has a winning reputation, a great coach, nice facilities, and a strong fans support. Of course GCU has a lot of the same things and more money, but they are at the dawn of their winning tradition. NMSU is at high noon. and NMSU has an recruiting/enrollment processing conducive for signing good players which is better than most in the WAC. We will see if this was a blimp or trend in the coming years.
Propping kids* NMSU is one of a few schools that can/will do this.
For profit university* GCU is one of a few schools that can/will do this.
I never said is was bad but NMSU and their fans treat it as a dirty secret that they don't want to really ever talk about. I have never understood this, use it if it works. NMSU and a few others are the only ones that do it. It's not illegal but I know for a fact NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids.
You pissed me off so much with the Prop 48 comments I missed your second dig. Provide your sources for the facts that "NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids". Since we have so many Prop 48's, I'm sure that this is the reason for our success in BB.
Looks like GCU gets a little success and some GCU fans start talking smack; starting sound very similar to the Utah State fans... who use to call our team thugs.
Enter Frank, have at him. Lope87 is right your alley. Smack away.
Why do Aggie fans escalate so quickly? Some of you come hard at everyone on this board. Then when another fan mentions anything that Aggie fans deem negative to their school they attack. I don't think anything 87 said was out of line. Pistol opened the door mentioning NMSU has an recruiting/enrollment processing conducive for signing good players which is better than most in the WAC. There are a lot of new fans on this board and many of them may not have known about Prop 48 rules and how NMSU can use that to their advantage. 87 was pointing out what that advantage was.
(03-15-2021 06:08 PM)LopesUp Wrote: Why do Aggie fans escalate so quickly? Some of you come hard at everyone on this board. Then when another fan mentions anything that Aggie fans deem negative to their school they attack. I don't think anything 87 said was out of line. Pistol opened the door mentioning NMSU has an recruiting/enrollment processing conducive for signing good players which is better than most in the WAC. There are a lot of new fans on this board and many of them may not have known about Prop 48 rules and how NMSU can use that to their advantage. 87 was pointing out what that advantage was.
I would agree with you, but 87 didn’t explain the rules. He asserted immorality without backing it up. Tbh I still don’t know the rules except for what Pistol said.
I hear ya, I just don't think 87's response warranted the backlash. I guess it just might be a sore subject for Aggie fans if other school's fans have used this against them before. Kind of like how some fans throw around "for profit" and "athletic budgets" regarding GCU. Most don't really know what they are talking about.
As far as Prop 48. I have no issue with it personally. I'm in favor of any and all opportunities a kid can get.
Definition of Prop 48
"Proposition 48 is LIT regulation that stipulates minimum high school grades and standardized test scores that student-athletes must meet in order to participate in college athletic competition. The NCAA enacted Proposition 48 in 1986."
I don't really see how it's different than having a kid go JUCO. I guess the biggest difference and advantage that maybe some may deem unfair is that those kids are not really playing JUCO, they are in the Aggie system taking advantage of a lower admission standard. At least that's how I understand it. I could be wrong.
I guess there is a stigma with those fans whose schools who don't accept prop 48 kids and the thought that someone is doing something immoral or unethical by the schools that do accept these kids. And, that is what Aggie fans take issue with when it's proclaimed without facts to back it up. Just throwing it out there that NMSU is somehow immoral or unethical does our programs and our fans a disservice. Questioning how GCU makes its globs of money and saying our coaching staff is not above board are two different things. So yes, that is a touchy subject; especially since we have high APR numbers excellent graduation rates, and our University is one of the finer academic institutions in the region.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2021 07:11 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
(03-15-2021 11:14 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: Now, do I think NMSU will dominate the WAC too the level that it has the last 8-9 years, probably not. But I think NMSU will win the WAC Tournament championship just enough to be the program most feared to meet in the conference tournament. This season's WAC tournament (again) when through NMSU. However, GCU was up to the task this season due the addition of Midtgaard. He changed the way NMSU had to defend this GCU team; the only player NMSU had to double team leaving GCU shooters open while he cleaned up (rebounding) the misses.
Now that Jans has an understanding of WAC personnel, he will recruit with that in mind in the next recruiting class; by either finding more prolific scorers or the size to negate some WAC teams size. NMSU was able to sink down on Aimaq because they did not have the perimeter shooter to make NMSU pay. You can bet Madsen will be looking to sign better perimeter shooters for next season. Or, work on three point shooting with the players he currently has on the roster. And on it goes with each coach in the off-season. but I digest.
Back to my point, NMSU will adjust to the increase in talent shift next season. NMSU has a winning reputation, a great coach, nice facilities, and a strong fans support. Of course GCU has a lot of the same things and more money, but they are at the dawn of their winning tradition. NMSU is at high noon. and NMSU has an recruiting/enrollment processing conducive for signing good players which is better than most in the WAC. We will see if this was a blimp or trend in the coming years.
Propping kids* NMSU is one of a few schools that can/will do this.
For profit university* GCU is one of a few schools that can/will do this.
I never said is was bad but NMSU and their fans treat it as a dirty secret that they don't want to really ever talk about. I have never understood this, use it if it works. NMSU and a few others are the only ones that do it. It's not illegal but I know for a fact NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids.
You pissed me off so much with the Prop 48 comments I missed your second dig. Provide your sources for the facts that "NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids". Since we have so many Prop 48's, I'm sure that this is the reason for our success in BB.
Well lets just say I have 1st hand knowledge that some coaches that have been at NMSU flirt with the line with moral/ethical behavior in recruiting. I'm not going to spill the beans on how I know this. So take my word or not, it won't bother me and PP it's not common knowledge about NMSU propping kids outside of NMSU and a few other WAC fans that know what that actually is. Again not a dig at you or any other aggie fans just repeating what I have been told by those with 1st hand knowledge of it what I speak of.
(03-15-2021 07:09 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: I guess there is a stigma with those fans whose schools who don't accept prop 48 kids and the thought that someone is doing something immoral or unethical by the schools that do accept these kids. And, that is what Aggie fans take issue with when it's proclaimed without facts to back it up. Just throwing it out there that NMSU is somehow immoral or unethical does our programs and our fans a disservice. Questioning how GCU makes its globs of money and saying our coaching staff is not above board are two different things. So yes, that is a touchy subject; especially since we have high APR numbers excellent graduation rates, and our University is one of the finer academic institutions in the region.
(03-15-2021 11:41 AM)Lopes87 Wrote: Propping kids* NMSU is one of a few schools that can/will do this.
For profit university* GCU is one of a few schools that can/will do this.
I never said is was bad but NMSU and their fans treat it as a dirty secret that they don't want to really ever talk about. I have never understood this, use it if it works. NMSU and a few others are the only ones that do it. It's not illegal but I know for a fact NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids.
You pissed me off so much with the Prop 48 comments I missed your second dig. Provide your sources for the facts that "NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids". Since we have so many Prop 48's, I'm sure that this is the reason for our success in BB.
Well lets just say I have 1st hand knowledge that some coaches that have been at NMSU flirt with the line with moral/ethical behavior in recruiting. I'm not going to spill the beans on how I know this. So take my word or not, it won't bother me and PP it's not common knowledge about NMSU propping kids outside of NMSU and a few other WAC fans that know what that actually is. Again not a dig at you or any other aggie fans just repeating what I have been told by those with 1st hand knowledge of it what I speak of.
Again, unless you state facts, it's BS. Are these coaches at NMSU now? You do realizes NMSU students can take courses at NMSU and at the DABCC in the same academic year. DABCC is a branch of NMSU but they are separate entity; But DABCC has the college prep courses needed to receive a scholarship at NMSU. Until then, the prop 48 kid is at NMSU on his own dime. Players can take courses at DABCC while being enrolled at NMSU. Proximity of the two schools and being part of the same NMSU system is what makes this possible. I happen to have degrees from both institutions.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2021 07:37 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
(03-15-2021 11:47 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote: For profit university* GCU is one of a few schools that can/will do this.
I never said is was bad but NMSU and their fans treat it as a dirty secret that they don't want to really ever talk about. I have never understood this, use it if it works. NMSU and a few others are the only ones that do it. It's not illegal but I know for a fact NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids.
You pissed me off so much with the Prop 48 comments I missed your second dig. Provide your sources for the facts that "NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids". Since we have so many Prop 48's, I'm sure that this is the reason for our success in BB.
Well lets just say I have 1st hand knowledge that some coaches that have been at NMSU flirt with the line with moral/ethical behavior in recruiting. I'm not going to spill the beans on how I know this. So take my word or not, it won't bother me and PP it's not common knowledge about NMSU propping kids outside of NMSU and a few other WAC fans that know what that actually is. Again not a dig at you or any other aggie fans just repeating what I have been told by those with 1st hand knowledge of it what I speak of.
Again, unless you state facts, it's BS. Are these coaches at NMSU now? You do realizes NMSU students can take courses at NMSU and at the DABCC in the same academic year. DABCC is a branch of NMSU but they are separate entity; But DABCC has the college prep courses needed to receive a scholarship at NMSU. Until then, the prop 48 kid is at NMSU on his own dime. Players can take courses at DABCC while being enrolled at NMSU. Proximity of the two schools and being part of the same NMSU system is what makes this possible. I happen to have degrees from both institutions.
Once again I have zero issues propping kids at NMSU, but I won't drop names here and they aren't coaches currently. But from their words propping kids is an advantage even if it's slight at best.
(03-15-2021 11:41 AM)Lopes87 Wrote: Propping kids* NMSU is one of a few schools that can/will do this.
For profit university* GCU is one of a few schools that can/will do this.
I never said is was bad but NMSU and their fans treat it as a dirty secret that they don't want to really ever talk about. I have never understood this, use it if it works. NMSU and a few others are the only ones that do it. It's not illegal but I know for a fact NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids.
You pissed me off so much with the Prop 48 comments I missed your second dig. Provide your sources for the facts that "NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids". Since we have so many Prop 48's, I'm sure that this is the reason for our success in BB.
Well lets just say I have 1st hand knowledge that some coaches that have been at NMSU flirt with the line with moral/ethical behavior in recruiting. I'm not going to spill the beans on how I know this. So take my word or not, it won't bother me and PP it's not common knowledge about NMSU propping kids outside of NMSU and a few other WAC fans that know what that actually is. Again not a dig at you or any other aggie fans just repeating what I have been told by those with 1st hand knowledge of it what I speak of.
Calling BS there. Almost certainly a total lie. No way it happened. First-hand knowledge means you saw or heard something personally. You were actually present when something happened? If not, than it means you, in fact , have NO first hand knowledge. Those are opposites.
(03-15-2021 11:41 AM)Lopes87 Wrote: Propping kids* NMSU is one of a few schools that can/will do this.
For profit university* GCU is one of a few schools that can/will do this.
I never said is was bad but NMSU and their fans treat it as a dirty secret that they don't want to really ever talk about. I have never understood this, use it if it works. NMSU and a few others are the only ones that do it. It's not illegal but I know for a fact NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids.
You pissed me off so much with the Prop 48 comments I missed your second dig. Provide your sources for the facts that "NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids". Since we have so many Prop 48's, I'm sure that this is the reason for our success in BB.
Well lets just say I have 1st hand knowledge that some coaches that have been at NMSU flirt with the line with moral/ethical behavior in recruiting. I'm not going to spill the beans on how I know this. So take my word or not, it won't bother me and PP it's not common knowledge about NMSU propping kids outside of NMSU and a few other WAC fans that know what that actually is. Again not a dig at you or any other aggie fans just repeating what I have been told by those with 1st hand knowledge of it what I speak of.
"NMSU and their fans treat it as a dirty secret that they don't want to really ever talk about.
It's not illegal but I know for a fact NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids."
Those aren't digs? If you want to say NMSU has a recruiting advantage or has a way to do something most other schools don't, that's fine and I would have no issue. You called out the fans and accused us of trying to hide something. I'm proud of the process we have in place and I think it is a great service we can provide to non-qualifiers. Every kid deserves a chance. And being able to prop kids is absolutely an advantage. No doubt about it.
And I agree with Todor. First hand knowledge means you were present when something happened. If not, it's hearsay. I'm going with hearsay and calling BS.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2021 08:16 AM by PojoaquePosse.)
(03-15-2021 11:47 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote: For profit university* GCU is one of a few schools that can/will do this.
I never said is was bad but NMSU and their fans treat it as a dirty secret that they don't want to really ever talk about. I have never understood this, use it if it works. NMSU and a few others are the only ones that do it. It's not illegal but I know for a fact NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids.
You pissed me off so much with the Prop 48 comments I missed your second dig. Provide your sources for the facts that "NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids". Since we have so many Prop 48's, I'm sure that this is the reason for our success in BB.
Well lets just say I have 1st hand knowledge that some coaches that have been at NMSU flirt with the line with moral/ethical behavior in recruiting. I'm not going to spill the beans on how I know this. So take my word or not, it won't bother me and PP it's not common knowledge about NMSU propping kids outside of NMSU and a few other WAC fans that know what that actually is. Again not a dig at you or any other aggie fans just repeating what I have been told by those with 1st hand knowledge of it what I speak of.
"NMSU and their fans treat it as a dirty secret that they don't want to really ever talk about.
It's not illegal but I know for a fact NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids."
Those aren't digs? If you want to say NMSU has a recruiting advantage or has a way to do something most other schools don't, that's fine and I would have no issue. You called out the fans and accused us of trying to hide something. I'm proud of the process we have in place and I think it is a great service we can provide to non-qualifiers. Every kid deserves a chance. And being able to prop kids is absolutely an advantage. No doubt about it.
And I agree with Todor. First hand knowledge means you were present when something happened. If not, it's hearsay. I'm going with hearsay and calling BS.
(03-15-2021 12:14 PM)Lopes87 Wrote: I never said is was bad but NMSU and their fans treat it as a dirty secret that they don't want to really ever talk about. I have never understood this, use it if it works. NMSU and a few others are the only ones that do it. It's not illegal but I know for a fact NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids.
You pissed me off so much with the Prop 48 comments I missed your second dig. Provide your sources for the facts that "NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids". Since we have so many Prop 48's, I'm sure that this is the reason for our success in BB.
Well lets just say I have 1st hand knowledge that some coaches that have been at NMSU flirt with the line with moral/ethical behavior in recruiting. I'm not going to spill the beans on how I know this. So take my word or not, it won't bother me and PP it's not common knowledge about NMSU propping kids outside of NMSU and a few other WAC fans that know what that actually is. Again not a dig at you or any other aggie fans just repeating what I have been told by those with 1st hand knowledge of it what I speak of.
"NMSU and their fans treat it as a dirty secret that they don't want to really ever talk about.
It's not illegal but I know for a fact NMSU HC's and their staffs aren't always morally/ethical in how they prop kids."
Those aren't digs? If you want to say NMSU has a recruiting advantage or has a way to do something most other schools don't, that's fine and I would have no issue. You called out the fans and accused us of trying to hide something. I'm proud of the process we have in place and I think it is a great service we can provide to non-qualifiers. Every kid deserves a chance. And being able to prop kids is absolutely an advantage. No doubt about it.
And I agree with Todor. First hand knowledge means you were present when something happened. If not, it's hearsay. I'm going with hearsay and calling BS.
BS alert
.
.
.
To be honest, I would go with the quote from "Gone with the Wind" in which Rhett Butler said
.
"Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn."
Aggie fans are touchy when someone insinuates the only reason has a good basketball program is because they are doing something shady and underhanded. We get this BS from UNM fans all the time (a school whose winningest coach is Dave Bliss). And, we use to get it from Utah State fans when they were in the WAC and hated losing us. It appear now at least one Lope fan wants to step up to that plate and take a swing. If your are going to throw out an accusation, you better put up or simply keep it to yourself.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2021 02:38 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
(03-16-2021 01:28 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote: This has escalated quickly...
Someone get the popcorn
GCU and NMSU fans on this board are basically an old married couple at this point. In addition to some of us wandering around mumbling the same stories we've been telling for years, we also know those nuclear topic buttons that can be pushed to trigger WWIII in our dysfunctional WAC family. It's all very exhausting when it happens, but I guess we were overdue for a good ole fashioned meltdown. Like Frank said, maybe it's just been too boring around here.
