(05-13-2021 03:58 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 03:42 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 03:02 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  David Dejuilius - Sr (PG) (29.5 mpg; 9.1 ppg; 4.5 rpg; 4.2 apg)

Mike Adams-Woods - Junior (G) (29.7 mpg; 8.6 ppg; 2.5 rpg)

Jeremiah Davenport - Junior (6'7" F/G/Wing?) (28.6 mpg; 11.7 ppg; 5 rpg)

Hayden Koval - Senior (Center) (19.6 mpg; 7 ppg; 3.8 rpg)

Oguma - Junior 6'9" (PF) 21.9 mpg, 7.6 pts, 5.4 rb, 0.4 ast, 0.4 stl, 0.4 blk per game.
.

koval and oguma likely not starting together, one will be the starter the other the backup...even if you could find a way to play both, it would mean no quality backup

davenport at the 4 for now...what they do with their last ship will decide his position... if they pick up KD, davenport likely a 4, and stays almost exclusively a 4.. if they pick up quinn or hunter (who are both bigger than davenprt).. i could see davenport being moved to the 3

and saunders and newman will have their chance to start aswell...

Thank you for the update.

It looks to me like the Bearcats have enough size to be a strong rebounding team. I'm just judging them on paper, but it appears to me that to make it onto the NCAA bubble - - which is not beyond the realm of possibility - - these players are either going to need to boost their scoring by another 10 to 15% or to play tenacious defense, or perhaps both.

One thing that could help is that the Bearcats have a lot of sophomores, and sophomores are the most likely to make a big jump in productivity during the off-season.

.

without some magically last edition... they arent making the tourney next year

(05-13-2021 04:00 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 03:31 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  Tulsa whiffed on Thompson who chose OSU. Screw him. Screw Haith. Screw everyone who has made Tulsa basketball unwatchable for me during the past several seasons.

i was thinking about this yesterday.. isnt it a win that you didn't get him if you are thinking bigger picture

honest opinion is your roster doesnt look like a contender at all.. you weren't making the tourney with or without thompson... you have 1 potential game changer player in horne and his eligibility isnt even guaranteed

the only reason haith still has a job is because of conference title built off uneven scheduling in 2020-- in his words "why would i be fired i won the conference championship last year", despite Tulsa not even being a lock for the NIT that year, #80 in kenpom (The uneven scheduling is coming back next season)

thompson isnt getting you into the tournament but he might have what it takes to do enough to replicate the 2020 season.. do well enough in the conference to get haith more years, while tulsa doesnt actually accomplish any big picture things.. prolong tulsa's return to making the ncaas

How would you guys rate Haith as compared with Jankovich?

.

(05-13-2021 04:01 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 03:58 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 03:42 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 03:02 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  David Dejuilius - Sr (PG) (29.5 mpg; 9.1 ppg; 4.5 rpg; 4.2 apg)

Mike Adams-Woods - Junior (G) (29.7 mpg; 8.6 ppg; 2.5 rpg)

Jeremiah Davenport - Junior (6'7" F/G/Wing?) (28.6 mpg; 11.7 ppg; 5 rpg)

Hayden Koval - Senior (Center) (19.6 mpg; 7 ppg; 3.8 rpg)

Oguma - Junior 6'9" (PF) 21.9 mpg, 7.6 pts, 5.4 rb, 0.4 ast, 0.4 stl, 0.4 blk per game.
.

koval and oguma likely not starting together, one will be the starter the other the backup...even if you could find a way to play both, it would mean no quality backup

davenport at the 4 for now...what they do with their last ship will decide his position... if they pick up KD, davenport likely a 4, and stays almost exclusively a 4.. if they pick up quinn or hunter (who are both bigger than davenprt).. i could see davenport being moved to the 3

and saunders and newman will have their chance to start aswell...

Thank you for the update.

It looks to me like the Bearcats have enough size to be a strong rebounding team. I'm just judging them on paper, but it appears to me that to make it onto the NCAA bubble - - which is not beyond the realm of possibility - - these players are either going to need to boost their scoring by another 10 to 15% or to play tenacious defense, or perhaps both.

One thing that could help is that the Bearcats have a lot of sophomores, and sophomores are the most likely to make a big jump in productivity during the off-season.

.

without some magically last edition... they arent making the tourney next year

It would surprise a lot of people if they did, but they might be able to make it onto the NCAA bubble and into the NIT.

If Miller is as good as some people think he is, they could also be a very difficult team for any conference team to beat on their home court

.

(05-13-2021 04:05 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  How would you guys rate Haith as compared with Jankovich?

.

bigger picture/resume: haith > jank
next season and future: Jank > Haith
(im not high on either)

i dont see any fire from haith at all, i almost sense him being content with where he's at.. which is not what you want from a coach.. jank is underperforming but he recognizes he is underperforming

haith will schedule horribly but try sell it as a tough schedule...jank will schedule horribly but will say its weak schedule but will then say its not his fault, "teams dont want to schedule us"
haith thinks he has done a great job so far - from interviews (he hasnt, 1 tourney in 7 season-- inherited a good team)... Janks acknowledges that he has struggled but just gives excuses why .. (sanctions , covid etc..)

jank still has high standards, he just isnt reaching it..... haith i think the bar is low and he is clearing it every time and then upsells what he did....says he counts his year 1 team as a tourney team (wasnt even a 1 seed in the NIT)..says tulsa had a great chance to make the ncaa last season if not for covid (their rankings were good enough to secure even an NIT bid)

even now, both jank and haith are in the hot seat (atleast should be)-- janks scrambled for the best roster he could find to combat it...haith didnt

(05-13-2021 04:40 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 04:05 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  How would you guys rate Haith as compared with Jankovich?

.

bigger picture/resume: haith > jank
next season and future: Jank > Haith
(im not high on either)

i dont see any fire from haith at all, i almost sense him being content with where he's at.. which is not what you want from a coach.. jank is underperforming but he recognizes he is underperforming

haith will schedule horribly but try sell it as a tough schedule...jank will schedule horribly but will say its weak schedule but will then say its not his fault, "teams dont want to schedule us"
haith thinks he has done a great job so far - from interviews (he hasnt, 1 tourney in 7 season-- inherited a good team)... Janks acknowledges that he has struggled but just gives excuses why .. (sanctions , covid etc..)

jank still has high standards, he just isnt reaching it..... haith i think the bar is low and he is clearing it every time and then upsells what he did....says he counts his year 1 team as a tourney team (wasnt even a 1 seed in the NIT)..says tulsa had a great chance to make the ncaa last season if not for covid (their rankings were good enough to secure even an NIT bid)

even now, both jank and haith are in the hot seat (atleast should be)-- janks scrambled for the best roster he could find to combat it...haith didnt

.

Well, fortunately for you and your fellow Houston fans, you're sitting in the catbird seat in the trans-Mississippi region of the conference, and it appears that you're going to be getting pretty comfortable up there for years to come. That's a nice place to be. Some of us were up there for years and year back in the day...it's a h@ll of a lot of fun while it lasts!

.

(05-13-2021 04:01 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 03:58 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 03:42 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 03:02 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  David Dejuilius - Sr (PG) (29.5 mpg; 9.1 ppg; 4.5 rpg; 4.2 apg)

Mike Adams-Woods - Junior (G) (29.7 mpg; 8.6 ppg; 2.5 rpg)

Jeremiah Davenport - Junior (6'7" F/G/Wing?) (28.6 mpg; 11.7 ppg; 5 rpg)

Hayden Koval - Senior (Center) (19.6 mpg; 7 ppg; 3.8 rpg)

Oguma - Junior 6'9" (PF) 21.9 mpg, 7.6 pts, 5.4 rb, 0.4 ast, 0.4 stl, 0.4 blk per game.
.

koval and oguma likely not starting together, one will be the starter the other the backup...even if you could find a way to play both, it would mean no quality backup

davenport at the 4 for now...what they do with their last ship will decide his position... if they pick up KD, davenport likely a 4, and stays almost exclusively a 4.. if they pick up quinn or hunter (who are both bigger than davenprt).. i could see davenport being moved to the 3

and saunders and newman will have their chance to start aswell...

Thank you for the update.

It looks to me like the Bearcats have enough size to be a strong rebounding team. I'm just judging them on paper, but it appears to me that to make it onto the NCAA bubble - - which is not beyond the realm of possibility - - these players are either going to need to boost their scoring by another 10 to 15% or to play tenacious defense, or perhaps both.

One thing that could help is that the Bearcats have a lot of sophomores, and sophomores are the most likely to make a big jump in productivity during the off-season.

.

without some magically last edition... they arent making the tourney next year

I have no idea what to expect next year but I think some may be underestimating how poor of a coach Brannen was (took him over a month to realize he couldn't play Rap and Vogt together!) and how much the players hated his guts. There *should* be a far different vibe around the team next year.

The biggest positive for Jankovich is that he does enough to get your hopes up at the beginning of every season even after advocating he should have been fired at the end of the previous season every season. As Wichita State fans know, he does enough to not get fired every year. Every year we have a talented roster and either can't put it all together or start great and then have an epic meltdown at the end of the season.

This offseason:
Added a top 150 freshman to go along with another top 150 fall signee and a top 250 player as well as a stud walk-on.
Added a POY, 3 all-conference, and another 4-star transfer.
Likely have our best player coming back along with our third leading scorer and best defensive presence.

The talent is there to make the Sweet 16. Will we even make the NCAA tournament? If we don't we probably do well enough in the NIT to convince Hart that he is building a solid program.

(05-14-2021 10:23 AM)mustangxc Wrote:  The biggest positive for Jankovich is that he does enough to get your hopes up at the beginning of every season even after advocating he should have been fired at the end of the previous season every season. As Wichita State fans know, he does enough to not get fired every year. Every year we have a talented roster and either can't put it all together or start great and then have an epic meltdown at the end of the season.

This offseason:
Added a top 150 freshman to go along with another top 150 fall signee and a top 250 player as well as a stud walk-on.
Added a POY, 3 all-conference, and another 4-star transfer.
Likely have our best player coming back along with our third leading scorer and best defensive presence.

The talent is there to make the Sweet 16. Will we even make the NCAA tournament? If we don't we probably do well enough in the NIT to convince Hart that he is building a solid program.

Interesting perspective. I really like this SMU team on paper. Certainly my favorite SMU team since 2017. I thought Jank did a good job with that team, but you're right he's been underwhelming (but just good enough to stick around) since.

smu doesnt catch breaks.. its a law written in the college sports heavens

(05-14-2021 08:44 PM)pesik Wrote:  smu doesnt catch breaks.. its a law written in the college sports heavens

Good kid but damaged

Alas poor Yor, we hardly knew ye.

(05-14-2021 10:23 AM)mustangxc Wrote:  The biggest positive for Jankovich is that he does enough to get your hopes up at the beginning of every season even after advocating he should have been fired at the end of the previous season every season. As Wichita State fans know, he does enough to not get fired every year. Every year we have a talented roster and either can't put it all together or start great and then have an epic meltdown at the end of the season.

This offseason:
Added a top 150 freshman to go along with another top 150 fall signee and a top 250 player as well as a stud walk-on.
Added a POY, 3 all-conference, and another 4-star transfer.
Likely have our best player coming back along with our third leading scorer and best defensive presence.

The talent is there to make the Sweet 16. Will we even make the NCAA tournament? If we don't we probably do well enough in the NIT to convince Hart that he is building a solid program.

I guess we lost our best defensive presence. Is anyone available to replace him?

(05-13-2021 04:40 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 04:05 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  How would you guys rate Haith as compared with Jankovich?

.

bigger picture/resume: haith > jank
next season and future: Jank > Haith
(im not high on either)

i dont see any fire from haith at all, i almost sense him being content with where he's at.. which is not what you want from a coach.. jank is underperforming but he recognizes he is underperforming

haith will schedule horribly but try sell it as a tough schedule...jank will schedule horribly but will say its weak schedule but will then say its not his fault, "teams dont want to schedule us"
haith thinks he has done a great job so far - from interviews (he hasnt, 1 tourney in 7 season-- inherited a good team)... Janks acknowledges that he has struggled but just gives excuses why .. (sanctions , covid etc..)

jank still has high standards, he just isnt reaching it..... haith i think the bar is low and he is clearing it every time and then upsells what he did....says he counts his year 1 team as a tourney team (wasnt even a 1 seed in the NIT)..says tulsa had a great chance to make the ncaa last season if not for covid (their rankings were good enough to secure even an NIT bid)

even now, both jank and haith are in the hot seat (atleast should be)-- janks scrambled for the best roster he could find to combat it...haith didnt

I want to give you credit, cause I give you a lot of ****. This is pretty accurate though as was your assessment of the Thompson signing.

Both takes are solid and aren't detail oriented but relevant, maybe the best assessment you have had of Tulsa stuff.

The word is Haith had zero chance of ever signing Thompson because everyone knows Haith should have been fired three years ago and last year. There is zero expectation of him surviving the upcoming season. Had we fired him at the end of the season it's not just likely but probable we would have got our legacy and had something to build on to success his junior and senior year. Our AD being interim, our interim president actively throwing wrenches in everything since she didn't get to carry out her little vision, and are former AD just allowing standards to slip led to this.

I don't blame Thompson for choosing a staff he has a good chance of finishing his career under instead of a lame duck who has survived by circumstances not ability. Haith fired the assistant coach responsible for our co-championship and hired a guy he never intends to listen to. We saw how this worked this year and the year before the championship, it doesn't, there will be no changes to the staff this season. Haith wants to do it his way. I am sure our AD will be happy to do so and fire him mid season with the backing of our new president. A year too late to help us bring back fans, get a star recruit, or capture attention when everyone will be looking for something to support.

Expect Monty to face the same fate with out a once in a lifetime linebacker talent. Also too late (we did get our football legacy though) to be of any help as good teams reap the benefits of the long lay off from the pandemic.

Going to be a rough three maybe four years for revenue sports and probably complete rebuilds from the bottom up.

.

It seems that Jankovich is the Head Coach who has received (some of, if not) the most discussion on this board over the past 2-3 years.

So I pulled up his record at SMU:

2020-21 11-6 (NIT)
2019-20 19-11 (REBUILDING YEAR #3)
2018-19 15-17 (REBUILDING YEAR #2)
2017-18 17-16 (REBUILDING YEAR #1)
2016-17 30-5 (NCAA) (#11 in AP Top 25)
2015-16 9-0 (took over team mid-season from Larry Brown)

His total W-L record at SMU, counting the half-season that he coached in 2015-16 is 156-101 (.647).

In his prior HC gig at Illinois State, he compiled a 168-104 record (.619).

He took four of his five 2008 Illinois St. teams to the NIT; none to the NCAA tournament, due in part to playing in a very competitive Missouri Valley Conference, vs. teams such as Wichita State and Creighton.

.

He some good coaching credentials. In his 10 years as HC at Illinois State and SMU:

1 NCAA team (with personnel recruited by Larry Brown)
1 team AP Top 25 team (with personnel recruited by Larry Brown)
5 NIT teams

In addition, according to this website, Jankovich has the second-highest winning percentage in the entire history of SMU's basketball program, behind only that of Larry Brown (.685), although it should be noted that this is mostly attributable to 39 wins by SMU teams recruited and co-coached by Larry Brown.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sch...methodist/

.

However, there have been some gaps in his record:

-Most importantly, it took him three seasons at SMU to rebuild a team that was able to make its way into the post-season, and the team ended up losing its first round game in the NIT.

-While he did extremely well to take 4 of 5 Illinois St. teams to the NIT when the MVC still had Creighton and Wichita State, his four teams didn't have much success in the NIT, ending up with a 2-4 record.

-His overall record coaching teams in the NIT and NCAA is a modest 2-6.

.

One can see why the natives have been getting restless at SMU.

In his defense, he was at a disadvantage trying to resuscitate the program after the way Larry Brown's career ended there, and despite that fact, he's only had one sub-.500 season at SMU (.469).

If the 2017-18 and 2018-19 are set aside as rebuilding years, his record the last two years is 30-17 (.638). In a 31-game season, this would be equivalent to a record of ~20-11, which would be sufficient to get most teams into the NIT as a #6, #7, or #8 seed.

Q: How does this measure up with the records of previous SMU teams?

A: It depends on the period under consideration.

-SMU's overall record with Jankovich as HC has been considerably better than their record was during their 8 seasons in C-USA, when they had only one .500+ season.

-SMU's overall record with Jankovich as HC has been similar to their record during their 9 seasons in the WAC, when they had seven .500+ seasons.

---One of those teams played in the 2000 NIT tournament (0-1).

---One of those teams played in the 2011 CIT tournament (3-1).

-However, SMU had some outstanding seasons when they were a member of the SWC.

---SMU won 13 SWC conference championships between 1937 and 1993.

---SMU played in 10 NCAA tournaments and 1 NIT between 1954 & 1993.

---SMU advanced to the Sweet 16 six times between 1954 and 1993.

---Comparing Jankovich's record at SMU with the records of SMU's Head Coaches between 1938 and 1993, when they were in the SWC, Jankovich's record would rank him third on the list of eight SMU coaches during that era. He would rank behind the SMU HCs who took multiple teams to the NCAA tournament (between 1947 and 1967 and between 1984 and 1988, with a NIT in 1986). Only one other SMU HC took a team to one NCAA tournament when they played in the SWC.

-Overall, leaving aside the Larry Brown years for the moment as somewhat of an anomaly, Jankovich would have to rank as at least a slightly above-average SMU basketball Head Coach, compared to their prior HCs since 1938, because the program struggled for several years after the SWC disbanded and only had two great basketball Head Coaches during their years in the SWC.

SMU has had better MBB Head Coaches, and it's had worse. The Mustangs total W-L record conference record (.500+) with TJ as HC has would rank them as a ~ middle-of-the-pack AAC team, overall. Thus, it's understandable why he still has a job there, but it seems likely that he'll have to string some 20+ win seasons together and at least one return trip to the NCAA in the next few years to remain there longer-term. It looks like he'lll need to put another feather in his cap (NCAA trip and/or a trip to Madison Square Garden in the NIT) fairly soon.

.

The issue is that SMU did not invest in basketball prior to Larry Brown. Matt Doherty helped convince the administration to do some more and there was a re-branding effort thanks to him and a marketing guru from Southwest Airlines that helped. No one before Larry Brown had the benefit of a basketball specific practice facility and weight room. Mike Dement was Tim Jankovich's equal and managed to get the team to the NIT in 1999-00 under Jeryl Sasser, Willie Davis, Quinton Ross, Damon Hancock but that team lacked a truly effective inside presence. We had an athletic big I really liked in DeWayne Floyd but were missing an inside presence which would have pushed us into the NCAA tournament. The 2000-01 season we had our best team but finished the season in a tailspin much like many of the Jankovich years. The biggest issue was our lack of discipline much like it is now under Jankovich. As opposed to Dement, Jankovich has a tremendous practice facility, a renovated Moody Coliseum, a much better basketball conference, and no academic recruiting restrictions which enables him to sign whoever he wants. While Jankovich had to deal with recruiting sanctions imposed as a result of Larry Brown's recklessness, he never used the full allotment even when we were shorted a couple scholarships. So yes, Jankovich has done more in his time at SMU than most of our previous coaches, but was handed a loaded roster, a top 10-25 home court advantage in all of college basketball, and more of everything than everyone else. We saw what SMU is capable of with these provisions and Jankovich has to date been unable to reach those goals. Seeing Baylor win the national championship only makes his failures more stark.

(05-15-2021 10:14 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 04:40 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-13-2021 04:05 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  How would you guys rate Haith as compared with Jankovich?

.

bigger picture/resume: haith > jank
next season and future: Jank > Haith
(im not high on either)

i dont see any fire from haith at all, i almost sense him being content with where he's at.. which is not what you want from a coach.. jank is underperforming but he recognizes he is underperforming

haith will schedule horribly but try sell it as a tough schedule...jank will schedule horribly but will say its weak schedule but will then say its not his fault, "teams dont want to schedule us"
haith thinks he has done a great job so far - from interviews (he hasnt, 1 tourney in 7 season-- inherited a good team)... Janks acknowledges that he has struggled but just gives excuses why .. (sanctions , covid etc..)

jank still has high standards, he just isnt reaching it..... haith i think the bar is low and he is clearing it every time and then upsells what he did....says he counts his year 1 team as a tourney team (wasnt even a 1 seed in the NIT)..says tulsa had a great chance to make the ncaa last season if not for covid (their rankings were good enough to secure even an NIT bid)

even now, both jank and haith are in the hot seat (atleast should be)-- janks scrambled for the best roster he could find to combat it...haith didnt

I want to give you credit, cause I give you a lot of ****. This is pretty accurate though as was your assessment of the Thompson signing.

Both takes are solid and aren't detail oriented but relevant, maybe the best assessment you have had of Tulsa stuff.

The word is Haith had zero chance of ever signing Thompson because everyone knows Haith should have been fired three years ago and last year. There is zero expectation of him surviving the upcoming season. Had we fired him at the end of the season it's not just likely but probable we would have got our legacy and had something to build on to success his junior and senior year. Our AD being interim, our interim president actively throwing wrenches in everything since she didn't get to carry out her little vision, and are former AD just allowing standards to slip led to this.

I don't blame Thompson for choosing a staff he has a good chance of finishing his career under instead of a lame duck who has survived by circumstances not ability. Haith fired the assistant coach responsible for our co-championship and hired a guy he never intends to listen to. We saw how this worked this year and the year before the championship, it doesn't, there will be no changes to the staff this season. Haith wants to do it his way. I am sure our AD will be happy to do so and fire him mid season with the backing of our new president. A year too late to help us bring back fans, get a star recruit, or capture attention when everyone will be looking for something to support.

Expect Monty to face the same fate with out a once in a lifetime linebacker talent. Also too late (we did get our football legacy though) to be of any help as good teams reap the benefits of the long lay off from the pandemic.

Going to be a rough three maybe four years for revenue sports and probably complete rebuilds from the bottom up.

Monty has a much greater chance at having a good season than Haith does due to the talent he has returning. Just a comment on Pesiks’s evaluation, Horne will be eligible. He already sat out a season when he transferred from Nebraska. They’re not going to make him sit out another.

The only reason Tulsa didn’t move away from Haith this season was his buyout and the rough nature of the school’s finances after Covid.

If you had told me a year ago that a) there would be a mass exodus of players from USF, and that b) Michael Durr would end up transferring into the highest profile/best team, I'd have told you to



USFFan

(05-17-2021 10:59 AM)usffan Wrote:  Michael Durr would end up transferring into the highest profile/best team, I'd have told you to



USFFan

to be fair collins and yetna made PT decisions, and had higher profile offers

(05-17-2021 11:01 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-17-2021 10:59 AM)usffan Wrote:  Michael Durr would end up transferring into the highest profile/best team, I'd have told you to



USFFan

to be fair collins and yetna made PT decisions, and had higher profile offers

I'll have to take your word for that - I didn't follow who they claim to have had offers from.

USFFan