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What's with Pippen and Hamilton
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #41
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
GFlash68, I doubt we will ever officially know what caused the suspension, privacy laws being what they are. All we have is that one season-ticket holder saying that there was some sort of physical altercation between Pippen and Hamilton.
03-12-2021 05:20 PM
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burden Offline
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Post: #42
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
(03-12-2021 04:08 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 02:15 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  No doubt the issues Kent State has had with some players over the years is not restricted to Kent State. It is endemic in college basketball. Suspending Pippen was the right thing to do. And anyway, I doubt they would have beaten OU yesterday even with him. Losing Nuga was huge, I think Senderoff did about as well as could be expected of any coach in adjusting to that loss. With major changes in personnel every year in college basketball in recent years, college basketball is a different animal than it once was. Senderoff has done a great job of re-tooling every year to keep the program from having any sub-.500 seasons. I used to be a critic of Senderoff because the program isn't what it once was, but then I realized he is coaching in a different era.

This is a bit off topic but ..... since it's established RS is an above average coach in this era of college basketball ... and the MAC as a league is not going to emphasize basketball ... and Kent (or any other MAC program) is going to emphasize basketball ... maybe a way to get ahead of the game is to invest in the coach. ... I'm not talking money (although that's part of it), I'm talking about incentives for playing X number of teams every year from Top 7 conferences ... incentives for beating any number of said teams ... then incentives for advancing to post season play ...

It's a back door way to improvement, IMO, but at least it's something. As you say, this is a different era. Being a consistent winner in a 1-bid league is not what it used to be.

Look at the Toledo head coach ... he's been around over 20 years at 2 different schools - a consistent winner - but has never sniffed the NCAA, has maybe 2 NITs and I'm guessing no more than 2-3 "quality P5" wins outside of the MAC. At UT has substationaly more resources than Kent.

That job ain't easy in the MAC.

I don’t know if that’s the right idea but at least it’s trying something different. Changing coaches is always dangerous (see women’s team a few years ago). At one time mid majors were suppose to have an advantage because players stayed 4 years (what a stupid prediction). Maybe a tougher schedule will attract and keep some players. I could care less about 10-8 or 11-7 seasons where we get lucky, win the tournament and then lose in the NCAA 1st round. I know that brings in some money but it happens so rarely it’s not a great way to run a railroad.
03-12-2021 06:41 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #43
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
Yeah, Burden, that one advantage that mid-majors had no longer exists. Perhaps the only way to attract players a cut above most of the MAC would be to play a marquee schedule. I sure can't think of any other way. And changing coaches is too much of a gamble.
03-12-2021 07:50 PM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #44
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
It gets worse. With the end of the one and done era imminent, the power schools are going to have to dip deeper into the talent pool and take some of the good talent that usually goes to mid-major schools. Think of the MAC without a half dozen or so of its better players who wind up getting recruited by the power conferences. The quality of our best teams just takes a tick downward, as if getting at-large bids in mid major conferences isn’t hard enough.
03-12-2021 10:34 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #45
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
Axeme, I agree. In fact, I was thinking that very thing.
03-13-2021 05:43 AM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #46
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
It will be very interesting to see what it does to the MAC. While what you say makes sense, the talent level in the MAC was probably higher before the one and done era. It will likely mean less turnover at the higher levels which could have positive trickle down effects as well. Bigger schools having fewer holes to fill each year so mid major stars being less likely to transfer to them.

It will also be interesting to see what the one and done era ending really looks like. There will always be players that exceed expectations as freshman, elevate their draft stock, and leave after one year. So how many guys will actually be looking to go an alternate route each year is the major question. If it's only around 10 or so then it might not change much at all. With the G League Ignite coming into existence and a couple elite players each year heading overseas, there's already several NBA prospects skipping one year of college. Right now for example, the G League has 4 guys playing that are expected to be drafted this year.
03-13-2021 10:06 AM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #47
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
The big boys will continue to use the mid majors as their feeder system. Guys that they didn’t care for in recruiting that develop at schools like ours will still be poached if they are late bloomers and show high end talent. With the transfer rules bending and now gone for a free 1 time transfer, they’ll still come calling to plug holes in a free agency kind of way. Good luck holding on to any player for three seasons yet alone four.
03-13-2021 07:04 PM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
Players will stay if the situation is right. Look at a guy like Justin Turner. Went out and looked and could have gone almost anywhere. Coach 'em up and you can get kids to stay.
03-13-2021 10:07 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #49
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
(03-13-2021 10:07 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  Players will stay if the situation is right. Look at a guy like Justin Turner. Went out and looked and could have gone almost anywhere. Coach 'em up and you can get kids to stay.

Ditto ... it happened at Buffalo and at KSU in recent years.
03-14-2021 12:15 AM
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Older and Older Offline
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Post: #50
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
(03-11-2021 07:41 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-11-2021 05:52 PM)ksu315 Wrote:  
(03-11-2021 05:15 PM)JimJoyce Wrote:  
(03-11-2021 04:13 PM)cleveland Wrote:  THIS WAS A REALLY GOOD SEASON.

I know college basketball has changed over the last decade or so, but how on Gods green earth was this a “really good season”?

Swept by your rival, lost your last two games by a combined 36 points and had more humiliating off the court issues.

One NCAA tournament appearance since 2008. I’m ready for major changes.

AMEN!!!!!

This was in relation to expectations at the beginning of the season.

Swept by Akron ... yes. But second game was w/out your top scorer (at that time) who was injured a game earlier and No. 3 scorer sitting out w/a back injury.

First game at their place came with practically no prep (they moved the game up from the end of the year, remember) and was a toss-up to the end.

Half empty is one NCAA since 2008 ... half full is one NCAA since 2017.

Yes, lost last 2 because alledged senior shows his selfishness and immaturity.

I follow this league avidly, not just one team, and know much more than I care to share about multiple programs. And none of this is unusual.

I'll end with this ... yes, KSU has had end-of-season issues recently. But I will also say - particularly with the consistent winning programs at the top of the league - they ALL have AT LEAST one such issue during the season as well, and quite often more.

There are multiple programs around the league that would love to have the issues Kent State (and Buffalo, and Akron, and Toledo, and Ohio etc) have. (anybody remember the Zips recent lockerroom incident)?

As a final note ... knowing what has been written about DP/Hamilton - as a KSU fan would you rather have had DP play the last two games or not?

If KSU had won the last two games w/DP - knowing what happened w/Hamilton - would you still be happy?

The right decision was made, everybody has to deal with it.


Totally agree. Correct decision made. No question. ESPECIALLY, this
Season. “ Easy to be the coach when You’re not the coach “
03-14-2021 06:33 AM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #51
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
(03-14-2021 06:33 AM)Older and Older Wrote:  
(03-11-2021 07:41 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-11-2021 05:52 PM)ksu315 Wrote:  
(03-11-2021 05:15 PM)JimJoyce Wrote:  
(03-11-2021 04:13 PM)cleveland Wrote:  THIS WAS A REALLY GOOD SEASON.

I know college basketball has changed over the last decade or so, but how on Gods green earth was this a “really good season”?

Swept by your rival, lost your last two games by a combined 36 points and had more humiliating off the court issues.

One NCAA tournament appearance since 2008. I’m ready for major changes.

AMEN!!!!!

This was in relation to expectations at the beginning of the season.

Swept by Akron ... yes. But second game was w/out your top scorer (at that time) who was injured a game earlier and No. 3 scorer sitting out w/a back injury.

First game at their place came with practically no prep (they moved the game up from the end of the year, remember) and was a toss-up to the end.

Half empty is one NCAA since 2008 ... half full is one NCAA since 2017.

Yes, lost last 2 because alledged senior shows his selfishness and immaturity.

I follow this league avidly, not just one team, and know much more than I care to share about multiple programs. And none of this is unusual.

I'll end with this ... yes, KSU has had end-of-season issues recently. But I will also say - particularly with the consistent winning programs at the top of the league - they ALL have AT LEAST one such issue during the season as well, and quite often more.

There are multiple programs around the league that would love to have the issues Kent State (and Buffalo, and Akron, and Toledo, and Ohio etc) have. (anybody remember the Zips recent lockerroom incident)?

As a final note ... knowing what has been written about DP/Hamilton - as a KSU fan would you rather have had DP play the last two games or not?

If KSU had won the last two games w/DP - knowing what happened w/Hamilton - would you still be happy?

The right decision was made, everybody has to deal with it.


Totally agree. Correct decision made. No question. ESPECIALLY, this
Season. “ Easy to be the coach when You’re not the coach “

Not to rag on any program ... glass houses and all ... but did you know Buffalo

1. Had a player miss the season (suspended) due to an off-season fight that led to him stabbing another player. Court case next week.

2. Another player off the team at Christmas for rape.

3. Assistant coach fired supposedly for grade/transcript tampering.

AND THIS WAS ALL THIS SEASON ... yet this program has played in every MAC Tournament title game since 2015 and won most of them. EVERYBODY HAS THEIR ISSUES ...
03-14-2021 09:43 AM
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fallsdog Offline
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Post: #52
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
Sure. But this is a Kent State forum, correct?
03-14-2021 10:06 AM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #53
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
That seems to be a trend we've seen over the last 15 years or so. If a MAC team starts to become the class of the MAC on the court disturbing incidents seem to be on the rise off the court. Seemed to happen with us to some extent and honestly I've felt like Sendy has significantly cleaned that up. Although our problems (at least the ones I knew of) were kind of tame comparatively. Things like DUIs, possession of weed, a fight in a parking lot, etc. When KDs teams started becoming the perennial MAC favourites some pretty bad things started happening off the court (Abreu, Diggs, and Treadwell). Now kinda seems like UB is going the same way.

Probably a correlation between being willing to prioritize on court ability over off court risks.
03-14-2021 10:22 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #54
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
Anti-zip, I'm sure there is some degree of correlation. If a coach is going to sign the best absolute talent he can, there will be occasional issues, some serious, at most programs. On the other hand, if a coach takes pains to avoid players that aren't likely to be squeaky clean, at most programs there just won't be enough wins. Today's college coaches have to make lots of judgement calls as to what potential players appear to be a good risk, and what current players who may screw up deserve a second or even a third chance. It's not an easy task.
03-14-2021 11:15 AM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #55
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
(03-14-2021 11:15 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Anti-zip, I'm sure there is some degree of correlation. If a coach is going to sign the best absolute talent he can, there will be occasional issues, some serious, at most programs. On the other hand, if a coach takes pains to avoid players that aren't likely to be squeaky clean, at most programs there just won't be enough wins. Today's college coaches have to make lots of judgement calls as to what potential players appear to be a good risk, and what current players who may screw up deserve a second or even a third chance. It's not an easy task.

Muskrat nails it ... the long game to all of this is 'program' support. When Kent basketball turned the corner Cartwright-Kennedy-Waters had a plan to try and help the 'new' kind of players Kent was bringing in and that included not only classroom support, but teaching players how to talk-act-dress and so forth. Basically, how to assimilate on a college campus. Many of those support systems are still in place, but not as aggressively enforced, believing these things are inherited from class to class. It is not.

Pippen, as an example, arrived at Kent as valedictorian of his HS class and seemed to generally present himself well in public. His issues in hindsight seemed to be more internal, team, issues. Frankly, he's the kind of recruit you want, as a player and outside rep, but programs have to help him with the rest of becoming a well-rounded person.
... AND THE PLAYER HAS TO BE PREPARED TO FIRST ACCEPT THAT HELP AND DIRECTION, THEN APPLY IT.
I'll stop right there.
03-14-2021 11:36 AM
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ksu315 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
(03-12-2021 04:56 PM)GFlash68 Wrote:  Do we still not know what caused the suspension?


See the rumors above. Pretty accurate
03-14-2021 08:31 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #57
RE: What's with Pippen and Hamilton
(03-14-2021 09:43 AM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-14-2021 06:33 AM)Older and Older Wrote:  
(03-11-2021 07:41 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-11-2021 05:52 PM)ksu315 Wrote:  
(03-11-2021 05:15 PM)JimJoyce Wrote:  I know college basketball has changed over the last decade or so, but how on Gods green earth was this a “really good season”?

Swept by your rival, lost your last two games by a combined 36 points and had more humiliating off the court issues.

One NCAA tournament appearance since 2008. I’m ready for major changes.

AMEN!!!!!

This was in relation to expectations at the beginning of the season.

Swept by Akron ... yes. But second game was w/out your top scorer (at that time) who was injured a game earlier and No. 3 scorer sitting out w/a back injury.

First game at their place came with practically no prep (they moved the game up from the end of the year, remember) and was a toss-up to the end.

Half empty is one NCAA since 2008 ... half full is one NCAA since 2017.

Yes, lost last 2 because alledged senior shows his selfishness and immaturity.

I follow this league avidly, not just one team, and know much more than I care to share about multiple programs. And none of this is unusual.

I'll end with this ... yes, KSU has had end-of-season issues recently. But I will also say - particularly with the consistent winning programs at the top of the league - they ALL have AT LEAST one such issue during the season as well, and quite often more.

There are multiple programs around the league that would love to have the issues Kent State (and Buffalo, and Akron, and Toledo, and Ohio etc) have. (anybody remember the Zips recent lockerroom incident)?

As a final note ... knowing what has been written about DP/Hamilton - as a KSU fan would you rather have had DP play the last two games or not?

If KSU had won the last two games w/DP - knowing what happened w/Hamilton - would you still be happy?

The right decision was made, everybody has to deal with it.


Totally agree. Correct decision made. No question. ESPECIALLY, this
Season. “ Easy to be the coach when You’re not the coach “

Not to rag on any program ... glass houses and all ... but did you know Buffalo

1. Had a player miss the season (suspended) due to an off-season fight that led to him stabbing another player. Court case next week.

2. Another player off the team at Christmas for rape.

3. Assistant coach fired supposedly for grade/transcript tampering.

AND THIS WAS ALL THIS SEASON ... yet this program has played in every MAC Tournament title game since 2015 and won most of them. EVERYBODY HAS THEIR ISSUES ...


I'll just leave this here ...

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-bas...71kxoi71m9
03-20-2021 10:14 AM
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