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WKUYG Away
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Post: #201
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
(04-05-2021 08:05 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-05-2021 06:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-05-2021 05:01 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Because of the comments that he violated policy, his conviction of 'something' is all but assured.

His defense is essentially that he would have died anyway... and while that is a mitigating factor and likely goes to damages or charges of 'racism' (which may be solely what he's trying to get at)... it doesn't go to the charge, imo.

Testimony can be contradicted and the question again is whether it is relevant to the death.

It's going to be hard to contradict the testimony of the chief of police about what the policy is. It is likely in writing.

More on the death in a moment.

(04-05-2021 07:46 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(04-05-2021 05:01 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Because of the comments that he violated policy, his conviction of 'something' is all but assured.

His defense is essentially that he would have died anyway... and while that is a mitigating factor and likely goes to damages or charges of 'racism' (which may be solely what he's trying to get at)... it doesn't go to the charge, imo.

You are jumping from A to Z without connecting any dots...

violated policy, or not, you still have to prove that act CAUSED the death. Now go ahead and prove the knee caused the death? First off they will need to show the amount of pressure from the knee and that relationship to the heart attack. Was there bruising from the knee? Surely they was deep tissue if the amount of force to cause a heart attack, was used?

violating policy doesnt have to mean its criminal

If that jury goes by the law they can not convict on any charges before them unless it can be proven the knee and the force of it caused the death.

Has anyone read where there was deep tissue bruising from the knee? Honestly you would probably need at least (and more) that before saying that was the cause of the heart attack....

cause of death is listed as HEART ATTACK and its up to the DA to prove something the assshole did caused that heart attack. Simple violated policy, doesnt do that.

I'm fairly confident that what you're both saying here isn't the case for people in a position of power like police.

The facts are that the guy was in custody and held in a 'submission' hold when it was unnecessary. He died during that time and there is no way anyone would not admit that a submission hold is specifically designed to put someone under pressure... which is precisely what would cause someone on drugs to die.

Let me say it differently.

The use of a tazer is considered non-lethal and is authorized by the police.. UNDER certain conditions established as policy by the police. If the police arrest someone and while he's in custody in the back seat of the car, a cop decides to tazer him in violation of policy, and he had a heart condition and dies as a result of his heart condition... you did not MURDER him, but you participated in an intentional act that scientifically would have contributed to his death, and he died.

He has SOME responsibility in this mans death. The way he avoids responsibility is not by arguing that the 'illegal' act by the cop wasn't the cause (something he can't prove) but by following policy.

If someone breaks into my house and I have a heart attack and die, my death is their fault... even if they had no reason to think it would have/should have killed me... or if I would have likely died even if he hadn't broken in. I just don't think you can argue and certainly not prove that the hold played no part in the death at all. And yes, in the case of 'engaging in an illegal act', the burden of proof shifts.

Your death was the affect of a person committing a felony which is a worlds of difference than breaking a "work" rule. The person being charged with your death would also need to be charged with a felony charge along with the murder charge...

show me where's that the case with Derek Chauvin? The DA will have to prove the action/pressure caused the heart attack. It really is that simple. Or at least it should be if we are going by the law.

No getting around that the cause of death is Heart Attack. Are you saying that if 1000 other people were put on the ground (asked to be there) and treated the same way...

1000 going to die? 900 deaths? 500deaths? 100 deaths? 10 deaths? Or is it only those with enough drugs in their system to kill them and with a enlarged heart from past drug use and with Covid.....

that die?
04-05-2021 08:40 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #202
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial

04-06-2021 04:09 PM
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maximus Offline
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Post: #203
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
(04-06-2021 04:09 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
Well if thats not cause for reasonable doubt i dont know what is

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(This post was last modified: 04-06-2021 04:19 PM by maximus.)
04-06-2021 04:19 PM
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JMUDunk Online
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Post: #204
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
Yea, that's not going to help the Pros case.

I can't breathe, I can't breathe is a very common trait of a heart attack. Like someone is standing on your chest is a common description. Did the cops actions help? Well, clearly no. Did the cops actions cause a fatal heart attack? How on earth do you prove that with all the other circumstances?
04-06-2021 04:28 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #205
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
(04-06-2021 04:19 PM)maximus Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 04:09 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
Well if thats not cause for reasonable doubt i dont know what is

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yepper.....it's beyond stupid this has any traction in nat'l subpar 'news'....
04-06-2021 04:41 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #206
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial

04-06-2021 05:37 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #207
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
(04-06-2021 05:37 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

LAST DYING WISH "MAMA"
04-06-2021 05:41 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #208
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
(04-05-2021 08:40 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Your death was the affect of a person committing a felony which is a worlds of difference than breaking a "work" rule. The person being charged with your death would also need to be charged with a felony charge along with the murder charge...

show me where's that the case with Derek Chauvin? The DA will have to prove the action/pressure caused the heart attack. It really is that simple. Or at least it should be if we are going by the law.

No getting around that the cause of death is Heart Attack. Are you saying that if 1000 other people were put on the ground (asked to be there) and treated the same way...

1000 going to die? 900 deaths? 500deaths? 100 deaths? 10 deaths? Or is it only those with enough drugs in their system to kill them and with a enlarged heart from past drug use and with Covid.....

that die?

Neither of us are attorneys in that state... so perhaps its just a question of perceptions. I'm pretty sure I've seen lawsuits where the concept of 'taking the plaintiff as they are' or something like that has been the driver of these decisions. What you describe therefore goes to INTENT or REASONABLE EXPECTATION which to my understanding changes the charge, but does not change the responsibility.

What I mean is that just because he didn't expect that his decision to maintain a 'submission' hold as opposed to making sure that he could breathe would kill him, doesn't mean that he is not guilty of some form of negligence or disregard... which are criminal elements.

The violation of policy only comes in to play when assigning the blame. Had he followed protocol and it happened, whatever charge is levied applies more to the entity that wrote the rules. If he breaks protocol, the charge belongs more to him. It doesn't have to be a felony charge.... and I don't mean more and less as in 50/50... I mean more or less as in... if it WOULD have been 80/20 in one case, it could be anything from 79/21 to 0/100. 'More'.

And while you may not like my example, the position of police and healthcare workers is somewhat unique... because you are very much at their mercy... which isn't the case in 'regular' world.

How about this... a hospital kitchen employee decides that he doesn't like a patient who happens to be on his death bed, or maybe he just thinks the following would be funny, so he puts cayenne pepper on something that doesn't normally contain cayenne pepper. The employee doesn't know that the patron is allergic... and he dies.... and was going to die anyway

Is the employee off the hook?? The guy perhaps had hours to live anyway. The Hospital is also liable, but they will note that the employee violated policy to reduce their culpability.

I guess we will find out.
04-06-2021 05:47 PM
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UofMstateU Online
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Post: #209
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
(04-06-2021 05:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 05:37 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

LAST DYING WISH "MAMA"

Prosecutors said he was as mama's boy because he was yelling out mama. dumb*** prosecutions own witness (Georges girlfriend) told everybody he called her "mama", and listed her as mama on his phone. That was just the first of a series of missteps by the prosecution.
04-06-2021 06:22 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #210
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial

04-07-2021 12:39 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #211
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
(04-07-2021 12:39 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

honestly, I'm surprised they did not....

'course that would've jacked his heart rate to a quicker death sentence....

there's a small singlet of nuts zongo that would love to be on this jury...
04-07-2021 12:54 PM
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MemTigers1998 Online
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Post: #212
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
Have they not thrown this case out of court yet or found him not guilty? This should have been an easy open/ shut, cop is cleared of any wrongdoing, that was quick so lets grab lunch deal.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2021 01:07 PM by MemTigers1998.)
04-07-2021 01:07 PM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #213
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
(04-07-2021 01:07 PM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  Have they not thrown this case out of court yet or found him not guilty? This should have been an easy open/ shut, cop is cleared of any wrongdoing, that was quick so lets grab lunch deal.


The theatre must be allowed to breathe sir..... this has at least 2 more weeks to go!
04-07-2021 01:14 PM
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EigenEagle Offline
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Post: #214
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
Here's a professional opinion.

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/04/ch...osecution/

One lesson people should have taken by now from a lot of these race outrages is that they have a tendency to fall apart once scrutinized professionally with facts (see Michael Brown, Duke Lacrosse, the theory OJ Simpson was prosecuted for being a successful black man, etc.)

It's fine to change the rules of engagement for police with civilians the racial angle that's been played up from this whole incident is just divisive, unnecessary garbage.
04-07-2021 02:12 PM
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Post: #215
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
I keep telling anyone that will listen that he's going to walk.
04-07-2021 02:42 PM
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MemTigers1998 Online
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Post: #216
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
(04-07-2021 01:14 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(04-07-2021 01:07 PM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  Have they not thrown this case out of court yet or found him not guilty? This should have been an easy open/ shut, cop is cleared of any wrongdoing, that was quick so lets grab lunch deal.


The theatre must be allowed to breathe sir..... this has at least 2 more weeks to go!

Guess they are waiting on the weather to warm up so the BLM losers wont have to riot in the cold up in Minneapolis
04-07-2021 04:22 PM
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Redbanksdog Offline
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Post: #217
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
Dude OD' ed.
04-07-2021 05:16 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #218
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial

04-07-2021 06:17 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #219
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
(04-07-2021 06:17 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

I couldn't make it out either....what I do know is vid noise vs. actual is not close to the same....

it's a simple filter that can be applied to isolate....
04-07-2021 06:29 PM
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green Offline
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Post: #220
RE: Derek Chauvin Trial
(04-07-2021 05:16 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  Dude OD' ed.



https://twitter.com/FischerKing64/status...7528638464

YODI YODI YODI YO
04-07-2021 07:08 PM
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