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MAC TOURNEY TIME
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Rocket75 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
Although I was rooting hard for Toledo, the best team won. OU won because they played better and smarter. Preston is am amazing talent. Congrats to THE Ohio University.
03-14-2021 11:05 AM
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thanksjim Offline
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Post: #62
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
Congratulations Bobcats!
03-14-2021 11:19 AM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #63
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
(03-14-2021 08:59 AM)axeme Wrote:  Just looked around a little to see what the various bracket predictions are.

Lunardi on ESPN has Ohio as a 13 playing Purdue.
Palm on CBS has 13 playing Fla. St.
A NET bracket has 14 playing UVA.

It’s all guesses, especially the opponents which just give you a rough idea of the approximate quality of opponent you would face on that seed line.

Edit: And DeCourcey on FoxSports has 14 playing Texas.

Hope for the 14 vs. UVA ... stay away from Texas!!!
03-14-2021 03:20 PM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
(03-12-2021 10:17 PM)axeme Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 10:39 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 04:59 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(03-11-2021 02:01 PM)Eagle66 Wrote:  Per the record courier Danny Pippen is not dressed for the quarter final against Ohio.
Oh, ouch. I am going to struggle and hopefully not blame the Reckless Courier for being the messenger with the bad news.
________________
(03-11-2021 02:48 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  You're probably right that 9-10 MAC teams will never care enough to try to compete in basketball and that's exactly why the MAC will perpetually be a 1 bid league outside of maybe an odd year here or there. What I outlined was the only way the MAC could achieve something more IMO.
Oh, I also think a step up of the top four to six programs is a lot more likely to yield benefits for the MAC, even if both were equally likely. The bottom four striving to be between 150 and 200, as in the A10, rather stranded down below 280 would not generate a lot of benefits for the MAC.

Quote: Yes, I would like a challenge with the MVC or A10. If either of those conferences wanted one with the MAC, I' sure it would have happened already.
I didn't say A10, the A10 is a regular multi-bid conference.

If you reckon the MVC is out of the MAC's reach, with the top three schools between NET #93-10, the next three schools between NET #192-120, and the bottom four schools between NET #242-212, that reinforces the idea that it's more quality at the top of the ladder that drives perception of conference rather than quality at the bottom of the ladder.

It's much easier to build a deep conference because it wouldn't really cost the MAC 7-12 teams to spend that much more money a piece. No MAC team will ever be able to afford to pay their head coach $3 million, which is how much Nate Oats left for. That's why I feel the top heavy approach won't work for the MAC. Anytime a program gets built it will get torn down by the coach getting poached.

I don't think the MVC is better than the MAC since Wichita State left. What I feel is that the MVC thinks they're better than the MAC. I'm not sure if you noticed but MVC excludes itself from the mid-major polls because they're still living in the past.

The MVC had two teams in the top 20 for a good part of the year. Last time I looked, Loyola was NET #10. They have starters who were freshmen on their Final Four team who are seniors now and a team that is probably better this year. They have multiple bids more often than they don’t, certainly more often than the MAC who essentially never does. Two teams in the NET top 50, MAC has none.

Seems like there are lots of ways the MVC is a better basketball conference. I’m having a hard time coming up with any ways the MAC is better.

This was also the worst the MAC has been in a number of seasons and the best season the MVC has had in a number of seasons. The two previous seasons the MAC actually finished better than the MVC in overall NET rankings.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2021 04:18 PM by kreed5120.)
03-14-2021 04:10 PM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #65
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
Does anyone really care about conference NET ratings? It’s all about national rankings, NCAA success, and at-large bids. The MVC is not better EVERY year, but most years, the top of that conference has been superior and you can take that back 20 years. That’s a real basketball conference with bigger arenas that are often packed.
03-14-2021 05:49 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #66
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
(03-14-2021 07:23 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  
(03-14-2021 04:19 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  So, are either Toledo or Buffalo in the frame for an NIT invite?

Doubt it. No auto bid, no sex ($) appeal.

Before the NIT bracket came out, I saw one NIT Bracketology (aka NITology) that picked Toledo, another that picked neither.

Instead it's both.
03-14-2021 07:55 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #67
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
(03-14-2021 03:20 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-14-2021 08:59 AM)axeme Wrote:  Just looked around a little to see what the various bracket predictions are.

Lunardi on ESPN has Ohio as a 13 playing Purdue.
Palm on CBS has 13 playing Fla. St.
A NET bracket has 14 playing UVA.

It’s all guesses, especially the opponents which just give you a rough idea of the approximate quality of opponent you would face on that seed line.

Edit: And DeCourcey on FoxSports has 14 playing Texas.

Hope for the 14 vs. UVA ... stay away from Texas!!!

GOT IT!!!!!
03-14-2021 08:30 PM
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zrb2 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
Both Toledo and Buffalo are in the NIT. Looks like they have a decent chance to make some noise in that field of teams. And both get another nationally televised game on ESPN2.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2021 09:08 PM by zrb2.)
03-14-2021 09:07 PM
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DICK Offline
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Post: #69
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
Ohio has a nice advantage vs Virginia. The whole team is quarantined and cannot practice. They may not know until Thursday or Friday if they can play ( you have to have a minimum of 5 players), so a forfeit is also a real possibility.
03-14-2021 10:10 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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Post: #70
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
(03-07-2021 09:41 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(03-07-2021 07:18 PM)Eagle66 Wrote:  
(03-07-2021 07:01 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Theres been lots of chalk in the early tourneys keeping NIT spots open for Toledo or even UB. Belmont IMO is the first lock at the moment. Drake may be if they dont get in on selection Sunday. Michigan State took down Mich to move off the bubble and keep them alive.

I think the MAC is more competitive than every league besides the A10 who started their tourney. The Horizon has had good games as well.

There’s no NIT auto bids this year, just 16 at larges. Doesn’t bode well for most mid majors I would think.

Still would be about the 7th team right now left out if Toledo lost by NET. UB closer to 20th but could play themselves in with the right breaks. Especially with their national recognition as of the past few years. Im aware the Dukes and Ole Misses of the world have guaranteed spots.

Swish. A couple teams bowing out helped UB. Toledo probably fell a line losing in the semis. If you saw Preston and Ohio this week though... you understand. Big Chance. Id be happy with a single win between the two of em. A final 4 run would be extremely impressive.
03-14-2021 11:41 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #71
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
(03-14-2021 05:49 PM)axeme Wrote:  Does anyone really care about conference NET ratings? It’s all about national rankings, NCAA success, and at-large bids. The MVC is not better EVERY year, but most years, the top of that conference has been superior and you can take that back 20 years. That’s a real basketball conference with bigger arenas that are often packed.

This year Loyola was #10 in the NET rankings and received a 8 seed. Back in 2018-18 Buffalo from the MAC was #15 NET but picked up a higher seed (6). MVC did get a a second in but just barely with Drake in as the play-in game.

MVC of today without Wichita and Creighton is just a hair better than the MAC. Arch Madness tournament isn't as strong as it used to be.

https://www.pjstar.com/sports/20200309/a...ts-bradley

The gap between the two conferences is now negligible enough whereby it doesn't make enough difference to run a program in either the MAC or MVC.
03-15-2021 08:13 AM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
(03-14-2021 05:49 PM)axeme Wrote:  Does anyone really care about conference NET ratings? It’s all about national rankings, NCAA success, and at-large bids. The MVC is not better EVERY year, but most years, the top of that conference has been superior and you can take that back 20 years. That’s a real basketball conference with bigger arenas that are often packed.

If you're going back 20 years then that would include Creighton and Wichita State being in the conference so yes I'd say it has been significantly better during that time. If you want to say the conference is still a little better, I won't argue.

Personally, I view the conferences closer to peers now. Since being raided I'd say the MVC is closer to the MAC than it is the A10. It's not this vast disparity that you're trying to make it out to be.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2021 09:32 AM by kreed5120.)
03-15-2021 09:10 AM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #73
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
I’m in the middle of a blizzard and have nothing productive to do so I started looking crap up:
From 2001-2021, the MVC has had 22 NCAA appearances and 17 wins, not counting any of Creighton’s or Wichita St.’s, which are considerable. The MVC was well ahead of the MAC before CU and WSU left and since, there’s not a lot data yet. You’ve got UB’s performance in ‘18 and ‘19 and Loyola’s Final 4 run in ‘18. I wouldn’t say the MVC is far ahead of the MAC now, although historically they are. If you throw fan bases into the mix, the comparison is really stark. Much bigger crowds, more rabid fan bases in the MVC, even during teams’ down seasons. They have a couple of schools when they’re down that draw MAC-like crowds, but for these schools, basketball is #1, even those that play FCS football.

I’m as big a supporter of the MAC as anyone and I love it for what it is, but I live in MVC country and basketball dominates in a way that it never does in the MAC, sadly.
03-15-2021 01:11 PM
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Post: #74
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
Historically the WAC is a better basketball conference than the MAC but nobody is suggesting that is still the case.

Conference themselves don't hold much in the way of intrinsic value aside from their membership. Take the membership away and they'll fade.
03-15-2021 07:47 PM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #75
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
Sure. The WAC. Seems completely irrelevant to the topic. What’s that have to do with a comparison of the MVC and MAC, two active Midwest conferences that haven’t had to completely turn over members despite the occasional changes? Answer: nothing.
03-15-2021 08:58 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #76
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
Don't forget the Horizon League. They once had Notre Dame, Xavier and Butler.

Losses so deep at this point Horizon is definitely considered a lower conference than the MAC.

MVC is a more regional Indiana-Illinois conference than before.
03-15-2021 09:50 PM
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DICK Offline
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Post: #77
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
Have any of the current Horizon teams EVER won an NCAA tournament game? I do remember Cleveland State winning a game one year with Mouse McFadden. Any others?
03-15-2021 10:44 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #78
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
(03-15-2021 09:10 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(03-14-2021 05:49 PM)axeme Wrote:  Does anyone really care about conference NET ratings? It’s all about national rankings, NCAA success, and at-large bids. The MVC is not better EVERY year, but most years, the top of that conference has been superior and you can take that back 20 years. That’s a real basketball conference with bigger arenas that are often packed.

If you're going back 20 years then that would include Creighton and Wichita State being in the conference so yes I'd say it has been significantly better during that time. If you want to say the conference is still a little better, I won't argue.

Personally, I view the conferences closer to peers now. Since being raided I'd say the MVC is closer to the MAC than it is the A10. It's not this vast disparity that you're trying to make it out to be.

To be fair, "The MVC is not better EVERY year, but most years, the top of that conference has been superior" is not making something out to be a vast disparity.

It's still not the MVC of a decade ago, and while CUSA may be a more likely target to get something going, it bears checking out whether some kind of early season crossover matchup could be organized.
03-15-2021 11:50 PM
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Eagle66 Offline
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Post: #79
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
(03-15-2021 10:44 PM)DICK Wrote:  Have any of the current Horizon teams EVER won an NCAA tournament game? I do remember Cleveland State winning a game one year with Mouse McFadden. Any others?

Cleveland State actually has a winning record all time in the NCAA tournament (3-2). They went to the sweet 16 in 1986 and upset Wake Forest in a 3/14 matchup in 2009.

Milwaukee won a few games in 2005 and 2006 with Bruce Pearl as well.

Thats all I can think of though.
03-16-2021 08:28 AM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #80
RE: MAC TOURNEY TIME
(03-15-2021 01:11 PM)axeme Wrote:  I’m in the middle of a blizzard and have nothing productive to do so I started looking crap up:
From 2001-2021, the MVC has had 22 NCAA appearances and 17 wins, not counting any of Creighton’s or Wichita St.’s, which are considerable. The MVC was well ahead of the MAC before CU and WSU left and since, there’s not a lot data yet. You’ve got UB’s performance in ‘18 and ‘19 and Loyola’s Final 4 run in ‘18. I wouldn’t say the MVC is far ahead of the MAC now, although historically they are. If you throw fan bases into the mix, the comparison is really stark. Much bigger crowds, more rabid fan bases in the MVC, even during teams’ down seasons. They have a couple of schools when they’re down that draw MAC-like crowds, but for these schools, basketball is #1, even those that play FCS football.

I’m as big a supporter of the MAC as anyone and I love it for what it is, but I live in MVC country and basketball dominates in a way that it never does in the MAC, sadly.

Yes, the MVC is predominately a Indiana/Illinois conference. Basketball is just bigger there compared to Michigan and Ohio. There are high school basketball games in Indiana that outdraw the larger MAC crowds. It's kind of why it's disappointing that Ball State and NIU haven't been able to achieve more.
(This post was last modified: 03-17-2021 07:00 AM by kreed5120.)
03-17-2021 06:57 AM
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