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Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
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Danforth Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
Most of the people on this forum are products of public education. Most of us on this forum are successful citizens. We have teachers and public education to thank for that.

Public school is the bare minimum of what each child should learn in order to be prepared for adulthood.

It's not meant to be on par with expensive private schools.

It's strictly an investment into our children's future. One only have to look at the other countries that surpass us in education to see that you get out of public education what you put into it.

If you want good public schools then you need to pay teachers more, invest more into the system.

If you simply want glorified babysitting then you simple continue to do what we have been doing.
03-03-2021 10:14 AM
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BartlettTigerFan Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
Has anyone figured out who this sock puppet belongs to?
03-03-2021 10:19 AM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
If I were to ever have children, I'd send them to a private school or have them homeschooled.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2021 10:41 AM by Bronco'14.)
03-03-2021 10:41 AM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-03-2021 10:19 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Has anyone figured out who this sock puppet belongs to?

When you have 4 positive reps - #1 is the Mod welcoming you and the other three are from RWT and UofElvis - you need to look no further.
03-03-2021 10:52 AM
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bearcat65 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-03-2021 10:14 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Most of the people on this forum are products of public education. Most of us on this forum are successful citizens. We have teachers and public education to thank for that.

Public school is the bare minimum of what each child should learn in order to be prepared for adulthood.

It's not meant to be on par with expensive private schools.

It's strictly an investment into our children's future. One only have to look at the other countries that surpass us in education to see that you get out of public education what you put into it.

If you want good public schools then you need to pay teachers more, invest more into the system.

If you simply want glorified babysitting then you simple continue to do what we have been doing.

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/issu...achers-pay
"1. Thanks to decades of increases, America spends more per student than any other major developed nation.

U.S. per-pupil expenditures have nearly tripled over the past half-century, from $4,720 in 1966 to $13,847 in 2016 (2018 dollars).
America spends more per pupil than any other major developed nation—10% more than the United Kingdom and 28% more than France; in the OECD, only Norway, Switzerland, and Luxembourg spend more."

You also seem to ignore the fact that private schools typically spend less per student than public schools and get better results.
03-03-2021 10:58 AM
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No2rdame Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-02-2021 09:12 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(03-02-2021 08:49 AM)VA49er Wrote:  
(03-02-2021 08:47 AM)BlazinBham Wrote:  So... discriminate against whites because they fit the criteria to get into the advanced programs? This is like colleges not admitting Asian students with much better GPAs.

Policies like this is forcing modern segregation. White kids will continue to be switched to private schools by their parents due to discrimination and public schools being littered with liberal college indoctrinated idiots.

That is exactly what I would do if faced with the same situation.

Regardless of race, any parent that demands excellence from their kids will do the same.

This. 100% this. I expect the best education I can provide for my daughter to give her the best opportunities she can have to succeed. My decision is not based on race, though with all the "hate whitey" movements going on in this country it is even more imperative for her to have the advantage a quality education will provide to compete on an uneven playing field.

She will definitely not be attending public schools.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2021 11:00 AM by No2rdame.)
03-03-2021 10:59 AM
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Crebman Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-03-2021 10:14 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Most of the people on this forum are products of public education. Most of us on this forum are successful citizens. We have teachers and public education to thank for that.

Public school is the bare minimum of what each child should learn in order to be prepared for adulthood.

It's not meant to be on par with expensive private schools.

It's strictly an investment into our children's future. One only have to look at the other countries that surpass us in education to see that you get out of public education what you put into it.

If you want good public schools then you need to pay teachers more, invest more into the system.

If you simply want glorified babysitting then you simple continue to do what we have been doing.

The answer is not more money being spent.

Like it or not, most all public schools are a reflection of the communities they serve. Is it surprising to anyone that a school in the middle of a low income area performs (by the measurement metrics) far worse than a higher income area all while spending more dollars per pupil??

Face it, schools in poor areas face far more obstacles educating kids than schools in more affluent places......things far beyond the classroom. And not just differences in IQ.

IMO, a big reason schools don’t do well educating kids is the metric system used to determine success or failure. By making success or failure almost wholly dependent on passing a grade level test, those in power are telling the education system - spend almost all your time and resources on the dumbest kids to try and drag them across the passing finish line.

What should be measured, and really isn’t, is how does each kid progress based on their IQ. That type of focus would almost dictate that all kids were pushed to succeed to the levels they should progress, not just passing some dumbed down test measuring the least common denominator.
03-03-2021 11:25 AM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-03-2021 11:25 AM)Crebman Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 10:14 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Most of the people on this forum are products of public education. Most of us on this forum are successful citizens. We have teachers and public education to thank for that.

Public school is the bare minimum of what each child should learn in order to be prepared for adulthood.

It's not meant to be on par with expensive private schools.

It's strictly an investment into our children's future. One only have to look at the other countries that surpass us in education to see that you get out of public education what you put into it.

If you want good public schools then you need to pay teachers more, invest more into the system.

If you simply want glorified babysitting then you simple continue to do what we have been doing.

The answer is not more money being spent.

Like it or not, most all public schools are a reflection of the communities they serve. Is it surprising to anyone that a school in the middle of a low income area performs (by the measurement metrics) far worse than a higher income area all while spending more dollars per pupil??

Face it, schools in poor areas face far more obstacles educating kids than schools in more affluent places......things far beyond the classroom. And not just differences in IQ.

IMO, a big reason schools don’t do well educating kids is the metric system used to determine success or failure. By making success or failure almost wholly dependent on passing a grade level test, those in power are telling the education system - spend almost all your time and resources on the dumbest kids to try and drag them across the passing finish line.

What should be measured, and really isn’t, is how does each kid progress based on their IQ. That type of focus would almost dictate that all kids were pushed to succeed to the levels they should progress, not just passing some dumbed down test measuring the least common denominator.
Never mind. I see that's not what you meant by 'metric system.'
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2021 11:51 AM by Bronco'14.)
03-03-2021 11:50 AM
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Danforth Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-03-2021 11:25 AM)Crebman Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 10:14 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Most of the people on this forum are products of public education. Most of us on this forum are successful citizens. We have teachers and public education to thank for that.

Public school is the bare minimum of what each child should learn in order to be prepared for adulthood.

It's not meant to be on par with expensive private schools.

It's strictly an investment into our children's future. One only have to look at the other countries that surpass us in education to see that you get out of public education what you put into it.

If you want good public schools then you need to pay teachers more, invest more into the system.

If you simply want glorified babysitting then you simple continue to do what we have been doing.

The answer is not more money being spent.

Like it or not, most all public schools are a reflection of the communities they serve. Is it surprising to anyone that a school in the middle of a low income area performs (by the measurement metrics) far worse than a higher income area all while spending more dollars per pupil??

Face it, schools in poor areas face far more obstacles educating kids than schools in more affluent places......things far beyond the classroom. And not just differences in IQ.

IMO, a big reason schools don’t do well educating kids is the metric system used to determine success or failure. By making success or failure almost wholly dependent on passing a grade level test, those in power are telling the education system - spend almost all your time and resources on the dumbest kids to try and drag them across the passing finish line.

What should be measured, and really isn’t, is how does each kid progress based on their IQ. That type of focus would almost dictate that all kids were pushed to succeed to the levels they should progress, not just passing some dumbed down test measuring the least common denominator.

I agree with much of what you say here. The standardized tests are a major part of the problem. In some states, funding is directly tied to the test so schools have no choice but to focus on, as you say, pushing the dumbest kids across the finish line.
03-03-2021 12:24 PM
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BartlettTigerFan Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-03-2021 10:52 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 10:19 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Has anyone figured out who this sock puppet belongs to?

When you have 4 positive reps - #1 is the Mod welcoming you and the other three are from RWT and UofElvis - you need to look no further.

Based on the way he "talks", I'm starting to think he's swaggy.
03-03-2021 12:39 PM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-03-2021 12:39 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 10:52 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 10:19 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Has anyone figured out who this sock puppet belongs to?

When you have 4 positive reps - #1 is the Mod welcoming you and the other three are from RWT and UofElvis - you need to look no further.

Based on the way he "talks", I'm starting to think he's swaggy.

It is possible that CB-Toolbox reinvented himself, but it is hard to mask that cadence.
03-03-2021 01:39 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-03-2021 10:14 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Most of the people on this forum are products of public education. Most of us on this forum are successful citizens. We have teachers and public education to thank for that.

Public school is the bare minimum of what each child should learn in order to be prepared for adulthood.

It's not meant to be on par with expensive private schools.

It's strictly an investment into our children's future. One only have to look at the other countries that surpass us in education to see that you get out of public education what you put into it.

If you want good public schools then you need to pay teachers more, invest more into the system.

If you simply want glorified babysitting then you simple continue to do what we have been doing.

As others have mentioned, this isn't strictly a funding issue. We spend a lot and aren't seeing an ROI that would dictate more funds would solve the issue. In many instances, public schools are playing the role of parent to kids because the ones they go home to won't and/or can't do the job.
03-03-2021 03:37 PM
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BartlettTigerFan Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
You guys are trying to explain color to someone blind from birth.
03-03-2021 03:53 PM
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Crebman Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-03-2021 03:37 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 10:14 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Most of the people on this forum are products of public education. Most of us on this forum are successful citizens. We have teachers and public education to thank for that.

Public school is the bare minimum of what each child should learn in order to be prepared for adulthood.

It's not meant to be on par with expensive private schools.

It's strictly an investment into our children's future. One only have to look at the other countries that surpass us in education to see that you get out of public education what you put into it.

If you want good public schools then you need to pay teachers more, invest more into the system.

If you simply want glorified babysitting then you simple continue to do what we have been doing.

As others have mentioned, this isn't strictly a funding issue. We spend a lot and aren't seeing an ROI that would dictate more funds would solve the issue. In many instances, public schools are playing the role of parent to kids because the ones they go home to won't and/or can't do the job.

I don’t care how much money one throws at education, a majority of kids that come out of a sh!thole household aren’t going to excel academically., they just aren’t.

Now, is it a shi!thole household because the head of the house is dumb or they just can’t even take care of themselves, let alone kids.......well, what came first - the chicken or the egg.

Whatever the reason, throwing more money at it will not show big gains, it won’t.
03-03-2021 04:03 PM
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Danforth Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-03-2021 03:37 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 10:14 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Most of the people on this forum are products of public education. Most of us on this forum are successful citizens. We have teachers and public education to thank for that.

Public school is the bare minimum of what each child should learn in order to be prepared for adulthood.

It's not meant to be on par with expensive private schools.

It's strictly an investment into our children's future. One only have to look at the other countries that surpass us in education to see that you get out of public education what you put into it.

If you want good public schools then you need to pay teachers more, invest more into the system.

If you simply want glorified babysitting then you simple continue to do what we have been doing.

As others have mentioned, this isn't strictly a funding issue. We spend a lot and aren't seeing an ROI that would dictate more funds would solve the issue. In many instances, public schools are playing the role of parent to kids because the ones they go home to won't and/or can't do the job.

It depends on what you consider a return on investment that is acceptable to you.

As it stands now, the vast majority of children that go to school come out knowing how to read and write and have the ability to further their education.

What more do you expect?
03-03-2021 04:43 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-03-2021 03:37 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 10:14 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Most of the people on this forum are products of public education. Most of us on this forum are successful citizens. We have teachers and public education to thank for that.

Public school is the bare minimum of what each child should learn in order to be prepared for adulthood.

It's not meant to be on par with expensive private schools.

It's strictly an investment into our children's future. One only have to look at the other countries that surpass us in education to see that you get out of public education what you put into it.

If you want good public schools then you need to pay teachers more, invest more into the system.

If you simply want glorified babysitting then you simple continue to do what we have been doing.

As others have mentioned, this isn't strictly a funding issue. We spend a lot and aren't seeing an ROI that would dictate more funds would solve the issue. In many instances, public schools are playing the role of parent to kids because the ones they go home to won't and/or can't do the job.

This.
03-03-2021 04:51 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-03-2021 04:43 PM)Danforth Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 03:37 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 10:14 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Most of the people on this forum are products of public education. Most of us on this forum are successful citizens. We have teachers and public education to thank for that.

Public school is the bare minimum of what each child should learn in order to be prepared for adulthood.

It's not meant to be on par with expensive private schools.

It's strictly an investment into our children's future. One only have to look at the other countries that surpass us in education to see that you get out of public education what you put into it.

If you want good public schools then you need to pay teachers more, invest more into the system.

If you simply want glorified babysitting then you simple continue to do what we have been doing.

As others have mentioned, this isn't strictly a funding issue. We spend a lot and aren't seeing an ROI that would dictate more funds would solve the issue. In many instances, public schools are playing the role of parent to kids because the ones they go home to won't and/or can't do the job.

It depends on what you consider a return on investment that is acceptable to you.

As it stands now, the vast majority of children that go to school come out knowing how to read and write and have the ability to further their education.

What more do you expect?

You can't have it both ways Danforth. Your above bolded statement argues the reason the US sucks educationally is that we aren't dedicating enough resources to achieve the desired goals. Then you come back with the italicized and essentially say the current results are 'good enough for gov't work'.

What I deem acceptable is that educational options are afforded to all students across the spectrum. The elimination of this Challenge program reeks of the same bass ackward logic that was used to eliminate the Vo-tech option in the inner city.
03-04-2021 08:00 AM
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Danforth Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-04-2021 08:00 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 04:43 PM)Danforth Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 03:37 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 10:14 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Most of the people on this forum are products of public education. Most of us on this forum are successful citizens. We have teachers and public education to thank for that.

Public school is the bare minimum of what each child should learn in order to be prepared for adulthood.

It's not meant to be on par with expensive private schools.

It's strictly an investment into our children's future. One only have to look at the other countries that surpass us in education to see that you get out of public education what you put into it.

If you want good public schools then you need to pay teachers more, invest more into the system.

If you simply want glorified babysitting then you simple continue to do what we have been doing.

As others have mentioned, this isn't strictly a funding issue. We spend a lot and aren't seeing an ROI that would dictate more funds would solve the issue. In many instances, public schools are playing the role of parent to kids because the ones they go home to won't and/or can't do the job.

It depends on what you consider a return on investment that is acceptable to you.

As it stands now, the vast majority of children that go to school come out knowing how to read and write and have the ability to further their education.

What more do you expect?

You can't have it both ways Danforth. Your above bolded statement argues the reason the US sucks educationally is that we aren't dedicating enough resources to achieve the desired goals. Then you come back with the italicized and essentially say the current results are 'good enough for gov't work'.

What I deem acceptable is that educational options are afforded to all students across the spectrum. The elimination of this Challenge program reeks of the same bass ackward logic that was used to eliminate the Vo-tech option in the inner city.

What I am saying is that public education currently does exactly what it was designed to do.

If we want it to do more than that then we have to make bigger investments than we currently are making.

Programs that challenge smarter students aren't necessary because those students are going to succeed anyway. That's not the focus of public education.

The best thing public schools can do given the current commitment by our government is to focus on giving children enough education to get a job and pay taxes.

Anything more will have to come from the parents.
03-04-2021 09:47 AM
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Crebman Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-04-2021 09:47 AM)Danforth Wrote:  
(03-04-2021 08:00 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 04:43 PM)Danforth Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 03:37 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 10:14 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Most of the people on this forum are products of public education. Most of us on this forum are successful citizens. We have teachers and public education to thank for that.

Public school is the bare minimum of what each child should learn in order to be prepared for adulthood.

It's not meant to be on par with expensive private schools.

It's strictly an investment into our children's future. One only have to look at the other countries that surpass us in education to see that you get out of public education what you put into it.

If you want good public schools then you need to pay teachers more, invest more into the system.

If you simply want glorified babysitting then you simple continue to do what we have been doing.

As others have mentioned, this isn't strictly a funding issue. We spend a lot and aren't seeing an ROI that would dictate more funds would solve the issue. In many instances, public schools are playing the role of parent to kids because the ones they go home to won't and/or can't do the job.

It depends on what you consider a return on investment that is acceptable to you.

As it stands now, the vast majority of children that go to school come out knowing how to read and write and have the ability to further their education.

What more do you expect?

You can't have it both ways Danforth. Your above bolded statement argues the reason the US sucks educationally is that we aren't dedicating enough resources to achieve the desired goals. Then you come back with the italicized and essentially say the current results are 'good enough for gov't work'.

What I deem acceptable is that educational options are afforded to all students across the spectrum. The elimination of this Challenge program reeks of the same bass ackward logic that was used to eliminate the Vo-tech option in the inner city.

What I am saying is that public education currently does exactly what it was designed to do.

If we want it to do more than that then we have to make bigger investments than we currently are making.

Programs that challenge smarter students aren't necessary because those students are going to succeed anyway. That's not the focus of public education.

The best thing public schools can do given the current commitment by our government is to focus on giving children enough education to get a job and pay taxes.

Anything more will have to come from the parents.

They should be prepared to go to college or go into some trade that will allow them to become a productive member of society.

Unfortunately, far too many (particularly those coming from sh!tty backgrounds) leave public school not prepared for anything.

With that said, if a kid refuses to do anything necessary to get through school, there isn’t a whole lot a teacher/school can do. You really can’t force them to learn if they refuse, and many do.
03-04-2021 09:55 AM
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Danforth Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Excellence no longer acceptable in Boston
(03-04-2021 09:55 AM)Crebman Wrote:  
(03-04-2021 09:47 AM)Danforth Wrote:  
(03-04-2021 08:00 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 04:43 PM)Danforth Wrote:  
(03-03-2021 03:37 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  As others have mentioned, this isn't strictly a funding issue. We spend a lot and aren't seeing an ROI that would dictate more funds would solve the issue. In many instances, public schools are playing the role of parent to kids because the ones they go home to won't and/or can't do the job.

It depends on what you consider a return on investment that is acceptable to you.

As it stands now, the vast majority of children that go to school come out knowing how to read and write and have the ability to further their education.

What more do you expect?

You can't have it both ways Danforth. Your above bolded statement argues the reason the US sucks educationally is that we aren't dedicating enough resources to achieve the desired goals. Then you come back with the italicized and essentially say the current results are 'good enough for gov't work'.

What I deem acceptable is that educational options are afforded to all students across the spectrum. The elimination of this Challenge program reeks of the same bass ackward logic that was used to eliminate the Vo-tech option in the inner city.

What I am saying is that public education currently does exactly what it was designed to do.

If we want it to do more than that then we have to make bigger investments than we currently are making.

Programs that challenge smarter students aren't necessary because those students are going to succeed anyway. That's not the focus of public education.

The best thing public schools can do given the current commitment by our government is to focus on giving children enough education to get a job and pay taxes.

Anything more will have to come from the parents.

They should be prepared to go to college or go into some trade that will allow them to become a productive member of society.

Unfortunately, far too many (particularly those coming from sh!tty backgrounds) leave public school not prepared for anything.

With that said, if a kid refuses to do anything necessary to get through school, there isn’t a whole lot a teacher/school can do. You really can’t force them to learn if they refuse, and many do.

I think we actually agree somewhat.

1. Regardless of how good our schools are, not everyone is prepared for college. That's not on public schools. Some people just aren't cut out for college. Trade school or Military Service is probably a better route for them.

2. People from terrible backgrounds are NOT prepared for a lot of things. Unfortunately, public schools will not help most of these kids overcome those obstacles.

3. Teachers cannot force children to learn. We agree on that. Some kids you just can't save.
03-04-2021 10:06 AM
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