(03-12-2021 12:53 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 12:49 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 11:54 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 08:26 AM)Osprey#1 Wrote:  As Mullet points out, the current NCAA transfer rules really invite school shopping. This allows the Power 5 school to treat mid-majors as farm teams which is how they want it to be. Hope the NCAA realizes that they may be killing the golden goose (the death of Cinderella?).

The death of Cinderella is fine for the NCAA. First round upsets are fun and attract ratings. But beyond that, the argument is it kills them. No one in the NCAA wants to see a mid-major make the Final 4 ever again. They want all the mid-majors gone by the Sweet 16, every single year.

I don't agree. I know a ton of people that are casual fans at best that were interested when Mason made a run. Was at a wedding and everyone rushed to the bar when that game was on final 4 weekend. I think it's more than you give it credit for.

The data doesn't lie. That Final 4 saw a dip in ratings that wasn't present in the Final 4's before or after it. Meanwhile, the Loyola-Chicago vs Michigan matchup in 2018 had the 5th-worst TV rating in the span from 1997-2018.

Blue bloods bring ratings and ratings bring cash. Period.

Nope, it sure didn't. Wasn't the best, but certainly not the worst.

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/ncaa-fi...s-tbs-nbc/

(03-12-2021 12:56 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 12:53 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 12:49 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 11:54 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 08:26 AM)Osprey#1 Wrote:  As Mullet points out, the current NCAA transfer rules really invite school shopping. This allows the Power 5 school to treat mid-majors as farm teams which is how they want it to be. Hope the NCAA realizes that they may be killing the golden goose (the death of Cinderella?).

The death of Cinderella is fine for the NCAA. First round upsets are fun and attract ratings. But beyond that, the argument is it kills them. No one in the NCAA wants to see a mid-major make the Final 4 ever again. They want all the mid-majors gone by the Sweet 16, every single year.

I don't agree. I know a ton of people that are casual fans at best that were interested when Mason made a run. Was at a wedding and everyone rushed to the bar when that game was on final 4 weekend. I think it's more than you give it credit for.

The data doesn't lie. That Final 4 saw a dip in ratings that wasn't present in the Final 4's before or after it. Meanwhile, the Loyola-Chicago vs Michigan matchup in 2018 had the 5th-worst TV rating in the span from 1997-2018.

Blue bloods bring ratings and ratings bring cash. Period.

Nope, it sure didn't. Wasn't the best, but certainly not the worst.

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/ncaa-fi...s-tbs-nbc/

The VCU one (8.3) did not do well either, after the Mason game drew a 9.1. The UCONN-Kentucky game the same year as VCU did better (9.5) as did the Final 4 games played the following season (9.6, 8.4) and the year after (10.2, 8.7).

And the very next season after the Loyola-Chicago game the Final 4 ratings were 9.1 and 7.6, respectively.

VCU and Mason did both draw more viewership than Loyola-Chicago did, which really just demonstrates that the bloom was off the rose once VCU and Mason did it. No longer is there any novelty to a mid-major making it that far, so viewership has been sluggish for cinderellas deep into the tournament.

(03-12-2021 12:56 PM)Osprey#1 Wrote:  Cinderellas do add excitement to the early rounds though. They keep me interested anyway!

Right but we aren't the NCAA Tournament's target audience. Much like the Super Bowl brings in halftime acts to attract young, non-football fans (you haven't seen groups like The Rolling Stones or The Who perform lately), the NCAA Tournament wants to draw in bracket fillers who wouldn't care about college basketball ordinarily.

Tournaments without cinderella opportunities are definitely hollow for mid-major fans or college basketball junkies, but that's only a small % of the pie that watches the NCAA Tournament.

The cinderella in the NCAA tournament is more of a romantic notion that our team has chance or the little guy can win it than reality when it comes down to money and ratings. People want UNC Vs Kentucky in the final or something like that and the big match ups will pay the bills.
With the current transfer rules it will allow the bigs to pick the mids clean . UNCA had the entire freshman class picked a few years back and that was the year before Macio Teague left for Baylor,his situation was different in that the HC left for a better job.

People still like an upset.

(03-12-2021 12:49 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 11:54 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 08:26 AM)Osprey#1 Wrote:  As Mullet points out, the current NCAA transfer rules really invite school shopping. This allows the Power 5 school to treat mid-majors as farm teams which is how they want it to be. Hope the NCAA realizes that they may be killing the golden goose (the death of Cinderella?).

The death of Cinderella is fine for the NCAA. First round upsets are fun and attract ratings. But beyond that, the argument is it kills them. No one in the NCAA wants to see a mid-major make the Final 4 ever again. They want all the mid-majors gone by the Sweet 16, every single year.

I don't agree. I know a ton of people that are casual fans at best that were interested when Mason made a run. Was at a wedding and everyone rushed to the bar when that game was on final 4 weekend. I think it's more than you give it credit for.
But tourney aside, they certainly know what they are doing "stacking the deck" with portal etc.... P6's drive their revenue, especially in the reg season

I agree with Nation here, because of the part I put in bold there. Yes, fans enjoy it and enjoy upsets and a fresh face with the potential for a championship (for all the same reasons most fans are becoming dull to the NCAAF FCS with mainly the same teams every year). However, the NCAA and the MONEY folks are the ones that don't want to see it. They may get some tv ratings here and there, but those contracts are pre-paid. The P6 conferences that drive the NCAA hate it. They're the ones with the deep pockets.

Two All-CAA players Tyson Walker(NE) and Zep Jasper (CofC) entered the portal over the past two day. CofC had 2 other players Deangelo Epps (high school teammate of Boggs) and Dontavius King enter. JMU had two players Jayvis Harvey and TJ Taylor enter as well.

(03-12-2021 03:02 PM)billthebighawksfan Wrote:  People still like an upset.

An upset, yes. 4 in a row....that just doesn't bring out the viewers. Not since Mason, anyways.

The 1979 Michigan State vs Indiana State had a 24.1 rating.

(03-12-2021 07:40 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  The 1979 Michigan State vs Indiana State had a 24.1 rating.

Sure. But there were about 10 channels then and Larry Bird transcended mid-major hoops. It isn't exactly a great comparison to the Final 4's in the mid-90s to present era.

Like I showed, relative to other Final 4's, only Mason drew any interest of significance. VCU and then Loyola-Chicago saw a plummet in ratings, which runs counter to the idea that cinderellas draw more interest late in the tournament. It just isn't the case.

(03-12-2021 07:43 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 07:40 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  The 1979 Michigan State vs Indiana State had a 24.1 rating.

Sure. But there were about 10 channels then and Larry Bird transcended mid-major hoops. It isn't exactly a great comparison to the Final 4's in the mid-90s to present era.

Like I showed, relative to other Final 4's, only Mason drew any interest of significance. VCU and then Loyola-Chicago saw a plummet in ratings, which runs counter to the idea that cinderellas draw more interest late in the tournament. It just isn't the case.

2011 championship game between Butler and UCONN had a 13.3 rating.
The 2010 Butler vs Duke game drew more viewers that the 2009 UNC vs Michigan State game did. 17% to 12%

(03-12-2021 07:48 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 07:43 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 07:40 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  The 1979 Michigan State vs Indiana State had a 24.1 rating.

Sure. But there were about 10 channels then and Larry Bird transcended mid-major hoops. It isn't exactly a great comparison to the Final 4's in the mid-90s to present era.

Like I showed, relative to other Final 4's, only Mason drew any interest of significance. VCU and then Loyola-Chicago saw a plummet in ratings, which runs counter to the idea that cinderellas draw more interest late in the tournament. It just isn't the case.

2011 championship game between Butler and UCONN had a 13.3 rating.
The 2010 Butler vs Duke game drew more viewers that the 2009 UNC vs Michigan State game did. 17% to 12%

I agree 33. He cherry picked to make his argument. Ratings are not nearly as bad for mid involvement as he made it sound.

(03-12-2021 07:48 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 07:43 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 07:40 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  The 1979 Michigan State vs Indiana State had a 24.1 rating.

Sure. But there were about 10 channels then and Larry Bird transcended mid-major hoops. It isn't exactly a great comparison to the Final 4's in the mid-90s to present era.

Like I showed, relative to other Final 4's, only Mason drew any interest of significance. VCU and then Loyola-Chicago saw a plummet in ratings, which runs counter to the idea that cinderellas draw more interest late in the tournament. It just isn't the case.

2011 championship game between Butler and UCONN had a 13.3 rating.
The 2010 Butler vs Duke game drew more viewers that the 2009 UNC vs Michigan State game did. 17% to 12%

Fair enough. That's a good example.

If Gonzaga makes it to the championship, they will as big a draw as any other team in the tournament.

(03-12-2021 07:49 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 07:48 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 07:43 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 07:40 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  The 1979 Michigan State vs Indiana State had a 24.1 rating.

Sure. But there were about 10 channels then and Larry Bird transcended mid-major hoops. It isn't exactly a great comparison to the Final 4's in the mid-90s to present era.

Like I showed, relative to other Final 4's, only Mason drew any interest of significance. VCU and then Loyola-Chicago saw a plummet in ratings, which runs counter to the idea that cinderellas draw more interest late in the tournament. It just isn't the case.

2011 championship game between Butler and UCONN had a 13.3 rating.
The 2010 Butler vs Duke game drew more viewers that the 2009 UNC vs Michigan State game did. 17% to 12%

I agree 33. He cherry picked to make his argument. Ratings are not nearly as bad for mid involvement as he made it sound.

OK. But 9.1 (Mason) down to VCU (8.3) down to Loyola-Chicago (7.2) is still a significant trend demonstrating to the NCAA that they should screw over the mids at every turn.

(03-12-2021 07:51 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  If Gonzaga makes it to the championship, they will as big a draw as any other team in the tournament.

Just as Butler is no longer really a mid-major (they were when they made the title game, I'd say), Gonzaga is definitely not a mid any longer. Their budget reflects that of the powerhouses in college basketball.

(03-12-2021 07:56 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 07:51 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  If Gonzaga makes it to the championship, they will as big a draw as any other team in the tournament.

Just as Butler is no longer really a mid-major (they were when they made the title game, I'd say), Gonzaga is definitely not a mid any longer. Their budget reflects that of the powerhouses in college basketball.

As long as they play in a mid major conference, they are mid major team. Just because they have become good enough to beat major teams doesn't mean they are automatically a major team. There are teams in the P5 that UNCW can beat. But it doesn't make those teams mid major.

(03-12-2021 08:02 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 07:56 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-12-2021 07:51 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  If Gonzaga makes it to the championship, they will as big a draw as any other team in the tournament.

Just as Butler is no longer really a mid-major (they were when they made the title game, I'd say), Gonzaga is definitely not a mid any longer. Their budget reflects that of the powerhouses in college basketball.

As long as they play in a mid major conference, they are mid major team. Just because they have become good enough to beat major teams doesn't mean they are automatically a major team. There are teams in the P5 that UNCW can beat. But it doesn't make those teams mid major.

Depends on your definition of a mid-major. I think budget is the biggest factor. If Gonzaga could get out of the WCC, they would. But without football, none of the powerhouse western conferences are interested. A basketball-only powerhouse like them has limited options.

But everything about them other than conference affiliation is major. They have a massive basketball budget, high end facilities and can pay their coaches almost anything they want.

Y'all can argue about market share and all but who care's here? It's about a CAA team advancing and doing their thing, isn't it? Has that changed? It is stilll possible for the little guy to make a run if you have the right pieces IMHO.

Getting to next year, we need bigs period. End of story. You can talk system all day but you need bigs period. That is where it begins and ends for this program going forward. Get bigs that can play and defend otherwise you are at a disadvantage from the tip no matter what you have at 1,2 and 3 and even the 4 if you don't have a guy that will mix it up that is at least 6'6" and has some girth/nastiness. This is hoops 101 period. Forget style, that's what it is.

Just to reinforce the point on Gonzaga, check out this excerpt from a 3-man weave article about budgets:

“Perhaps our critical reviewer was correct: the term we should be using is Power 6-PG (Power 6 – plus Gonzaga), considering how deep the Zags’ pockets have become. The Zags ranked 27th in the entire country in basketball expenditures, outpacing every Pac 12 team except UCLA, along with other “powers” like Illinois, Arkansas, Florida, and Maryland. They’re in a completely different stratosphere than their WCC foes.”


When we talk about mid-majors getting screwed, we’re not talking about programs like Gonzaga. They’re part of the fabric of major college basketball, a level we can only dream of reaching. We only have 2 things in common with Gonzaga: We’re a basketball first school, and we’re in a bad conference we’d escape if/when we can.