(02-25-2021 08:18 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 06:32 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 06:08 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Teaching history while leaving out the topics listed in the OP is a perfect example of “facts not truth.”
Glossing over the horrible things that happened in our history so everyone has a false sense of America being practically blameless produces people like SK who can’t fathom that the other side of the story needs to be told.

But leaving out the equally true accounts of truly exceptional American accomplishments, particularly if done in order to make room for these accounts in the curriculum, is at least equally disingenuous and dishonest. What would you remove to make room for these?

Without knowing what the district is currently teaching I can’t answer that. You might not have to remove anything, you know...in elementary you might not spend 2 weeks on a topic, but 1, for example. Just spitballing.
There’s no shame in including some “truly exceptional” American errors to illustrate that we should learn from history lest we repeat it. If things are truly so chock-full to the brim that you can’t add to and have to trade out some things, I’m sure that can be figured out...but I doubt it would be as much as you think.
Never mind the fact that people are getting their panties in a wad about a parent & alumni led survey. It wasn’t even sent out by the district.

Well, I'm not as confident as you are. I think there is a concerted effort in many corners of the USA education establishment to paint the country and our history in the worst possible light. You can certainly identify events here and there where we did put our best foot forward. But I don't think those should receive front row center attention. The bottom line is that not everybody has fared perfectly at every stage of our history. But the vast, vast majority have fared much, much better than in pretty much any other country in the world. And those incidents that go against the run of play aside, that true exceptionalism should be the enduring message,

(02-25-2021 08:18 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 06:32 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 06:08 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Teaching history while leaving out the topics listed in the OP is a perfect example of “facts not truth.”
Glossing over the horrible things that happened in our history so everyone has a false sense of America being practically blameless produces people like SK who can’t fathom that the other side of the story needs to be told.

But leaving out the equally true accounts of truly exceptional American accomplishments, particularly if done in order to make room for these accounts in the curriculum, is at least equally disingenuous and dishonest. What would you remove to make room for these?

Without knowing what the district is currently teaching I can’t answer that. You might not have to remove anything, you know...in elementary you might not spend 2 weeks on a topic, but 1, for example. Just spitballing.

There’s no shame in including some “truly exceptional” American errors to illustrate that we should learn from history lest we repeat it. If things are truly so chock-full to the brim that you can’t add to and have to trade out some things, I’m sure that can be figured out...but I doubt it would be as much as you think.

Never mind the fact that people are getting their panties in a wad about a parent & alumni led survey. It wasn’t even sent out by the district.

Teachers are absolute fricking morons. All they can do is read what they are provided and babysit. If they werre told that monkeys were purple and procreate with yellow penguins they would do it
They are the dumb chicks that got MRS degrees.

Dont let your kids go to public school period. Right now they are being told white America is evil and like low iq parrots they are they repeat it.

For God's sake dont let these retards corrupt your kids.

(02-25-2021 09:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 08:18 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 06:32 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 06:08 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Teaching history while leaving out the topics listed in the OP is a perfect example of “facts not truth.”
Glossing over the horrible things that happened in our history so everyone has a false sense of America being practically blameless produces people like SK who can’t fathom that the other side of the story needs to be told.

But leaving out the equally true accounts of truly exceptional American accomplishments, particularly if done in order to make room for these accounts in the curriculum, is at least equally disingenuous and dishonest. What would you remove to make room for these?

Without knowing what the district is currently teaching I can’t answer that. You might not have to remove anything, you know...in elementary you might not spend 2 weeks on a topic, but 1, for example. Just spitballing.
There’s no shame in including some “truly exceptional” American errors to illustrate that we should learn from history lest we repeat it. If things are truly so chock-full to the brim that you can’t add to and have to trade out some things, I’m sure that can be figured out...but I doubt it would be as much as you think.
Never mind the fact that people are getting their panties in a wad about a parent & alumni led survey. It wasn’t even sent out by the district.

Well, I'm not as confident as you are. I think there is a concerted effort in many corners of the USA education establishment to paint the country and our history in the worst possible light. You can certainly identify events here and there where we did put our best foot forward. But I don't think those should receive front row center attention. The bottom line is that not everybody has fared perfectly at every stage of our history. But the vast, vast majority have fared much, much better than in pretty much any other country in the world. And those incidents that go against the run of play aside, that true exceptionalism should be the enduring message,

Spoken like someone who has not been on the receiving end of many of those missteps in our country. The others on the receiving end of those
missteps deserve to have their stories told as much as those who have success stories to give true historical context & not a glossing over.

(02-25-2021 10:12 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Teachers are absolute fricking morons. All they can do is read what they are provided and babysit.

Now I know you’re nothing more than a troll since nothing could be further from the truth.

Please try just one month of the work they do in order to plan out lessons and engage kids. I know you’ve always been full of it, but this is some nonsensical BS right here.

(02-25-2021 10:13 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 09:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 08:18 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 06:32 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 06:08 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Teaching history while leaving out the topics listed in the OP is a perfect example of “facts not truth.”
Glossing over the horrible things that happened in our history so everyone has a false sense of America being practically blameless produces people like SK who can’t fathom that the other side of the story needs to be told.

But leaving out the equally true accounts of truly exceptional American accomplishments, particularly if done in order to make room for these accounts in the curriculum, is at least equally disingenuous and dishonest. What would you remove to make room for these?

Without knowing what the district is currently teaching I can’t answer that. You might not have to remove anything, you know...in elementary you might not spend 2 weeks on a topic, but 1, for example. Just spitballing.
There’s no shame in including some “truly exceptional” American errors to illustrate that we should learn from history lest we repeat it. If things are truly so chock-full to the brim that you can’t add to and have to trade out some things, I’m sure that can be figured out...but I doubt it would be as much as you think.
Never mind the fact that people are getting their panties in a wad about a parent & alumni led survey. It wasn’t even sent out by the district.

Well, I'm not as confident as you are. I think there is a concerted effort in many corners of the USA education establishment to paint the country and our history in the worst possible light. You can certainly identify events here and there where we did put our best foot forward. But I don't think those should receive front row center attention. The bottom line is that not everybody has fared perfectly at every stage of our history. But the vast, vast majority have fared much, much better than in pretty much any other country in the world. And those incidents that go against the run of play aside, that true exceptionalism should be the enduring message,

Spoken like someone who has not been on the receiving end of many of those missteps in our country. The others on the receiving end of those
missteps deserve to have their stories told to give true historical context & not a glossing over as well.

You mean like the 100's or more of mostly white troops used to test the effects of fallout on humans after some of the first nuclear tests? I'm afraid when it comes to government abuse of citizens the radioactivity falls fairly equally on all. Just ask the women who painted the radium dials on the Bulova watches that the U.S. Army Air Corps gave pilots so they could see rendezvous times at night and estimate distances to bomb runs. Those women were the white middle class daughters of Americans. Most died from oral cancer. So we can match racial atrocities tit for tat, but I bet you were never taught any of that!

The issue is not racial. The issue is elite vs everyone else.

(02-25-2021 10:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:13 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 09:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 08:18 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 06:32 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  But leaving out the equally true accounts of truly exceptional American accomplishments, particularly if done in order to make room for these accounts in the curriculum, is at least equally disingenuous and dishonest. What would you remove to make room for these?

Without knowing what the district is currently teaching I can’t answer that. You might not have to remove anything, you know...in elementary you might not spend 2 weeks on a topic, but 1, for example. Just spitballing.
There’s no shame in including some “truly exceptional” American errors to illustrate that we should learn from history lest we repeat it. If things are truly so chock-full to the brim that you can’t add to and have to trade out some things, I’m sure that can be figured out...but I doubt it would be as much as you think.
Never mind the fact that people are getting their panties in a wad about a parent & alumni led survey. It wasn’t even sent out by the district.

Well, I'm not as confident as you are. I think there is a concerted effort in many corners of the USA education establishment to paint the country and our history in the worst possible light. You can certainly identify events here and there where we did put our best foot forward. But I don't think those should receive front row center attention. The bottom line is that not everybody has fared perfectly at every stage of our history. But the vast, vast majority have fared much, much better than in pretty much any other country in the world. And those incidents that go against the run of play aside, that true exceptionalism should be the enduring message,

Spoken like someone who has not been on the receiving end of many of those missteps in our country. The others on the receiving end of those
missteps deserve to have their stories told to give true historical context & not a glossing over as well.

You mean like the 100's or more of mostly white troops used to test the effects of fallout on humans after some of the first nuclear tests? I'm afraid when it comes to government abuse of citizens the radioactivity falls fairly equally on all. Just ask the women who painted the radium dials on the Bulova watches that the U.S. Army Air Corps gave pilots so they could see rendezvous times at night and estimate distances to bomb runs. Those women were the white middle class daughters of Americans. Most died from oral cancer. So we can match racial atrocities tit for tat, but I bet you were never taught any of that!

The issue is not racial. The issue is elite vs everyone else.

I didn’t mention race.

Since the parents & alumni made this survey on the OP, might I suggest you do the same for your district with these?

Of course, that’s just gonna infuriate the conservatives who think that the only history that should be shared is how ingenious & successful the US is, when the truth is plenty of other countries are just as successful, if not moreso in some areas.

The American “exceptionalism” history taught in schools is just another form of propaganda. You have to cover the good and the bad, and also the ugly.

(02-25-2021 10:29 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:13 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 09:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 08:18 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Without knowing what the district is currently teaching I can’t answer that. You might not have to remove anything, you know...in elementary you might not spend 2 weeks on a topic, but 1, for example. Just spitballing.
There’s no shame in including some “truly exceptional” American errors to illustrate that we should learn from history lest we repeat it. If things are truly so chock-full to the brim that you can’t add to and have to trade out some things, I’m sure that can be figured out...but I doubt it would be as much as you think.
Never mind the fact that people are getting their panties in a wad about a parent & alumni led survey. It wasn’t even sent out by the district.

Well, I'm not as confident as you are. I think there is a concerted effort in many corners of the USA education establishment to paint the country and our history in the worst possible light. You can certainly identify events here and there where we did put our best foot forward. But I don't think those should receive front row center attention. The bottom line is that not everybody has fared perfectly at every stage of our history. But the vast, vast majority have fared much, much better than in pretty much any other country in the world. And those incidents that go against the run of play aside, that true exceptionalism should be the enduring message,

Spoken like someone who has not been on the receiving end of many of those missteps in our country. The others on the receiving end of those
missteps deserve to have their stories told to give true historical context & not a glossing over as well.

You mean like the 100's or more of mostly white troops used to test the effects of fallout on humans after some of the first nuclear tests? I'm afraid when it comes to government abuse of citizens the radioactivity falls fairly equally on all. Just ask the women who painted the radium dials on the Bulova watches that the U.S. Army Air Corps gave pilots so they could see rendezvous times at night and estimate distances to bomb runs. Those women were the white middle class daughters of Americans. Most died from oral cancer. So we can match racial atrocities tit for tat, but I bet you were never taught any of that!

The issue is not racial. The issue is elite vs everyone else.

I didn’t mention race, bud.

Since the parents & alumni made this survey on the OP, might I suggest you do the same for your district with these?

You were questioning Owl's whiteness or privilege as such, if I'm not mistaken, "spoken like one who has not been on the receiving end of those missteps" is the lackey race baiting crap I'm calling out. If you didn't mention it you sure as hell implied it, now own it. Tit for tat. It's lack of concern for those deemed unessential and race has little to do with it. You need some depth to your perspective if you think minorities are the only ones who have been victimized and their stories not told.

(02-25-2021 10:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:29 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:13 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 09:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Well, I'm not as confident as you are. I think there is a concerted effort in many corners of the USA education establishment to paint the country and our history in the worst possible light. You can certainly identify events here and there where we did put our best foot forward. But I don't think those should receive front row center attention. The bottom line is that not everybody has fared perfectly at every stage of our history. But the vast, vast majority have fared much, much better than in pretty much any other country in the world. And those incidents that go against the run of play aside, that true exceptionalism should be the enduring message,

Spoken like someone who has not been on the receiving end of many of those missteps in our country. The others on the receiving end of those
missteps deserve to have their stories told to give true historical context & not a glossing over as well.

You mean like the 100's or more of mostly white troops used to test the effects of fallout on humans after some of the first nuclear tests? I'm afraid when it comes to government abuse of citizens the radioactivity falls fairly equally on all. Just ask the women who painted the radium dials on the Bulova watches that the U.S. Army Air Corps gave pilots so they could see rendezvous times at night and estimate distances to bomb runs. Those women were the white middle class daughters of Americans. Most died from oral cancer. So we can match racial atrocities tit for tat, but I bet you were never taught any of that!

The issue is not racial. The issue is elite vs everyone else.

I didn’t mention race, bud.

Since the parents & alumni made this survey on the OP, might I suggest you do the same for your district with these?

You were questioning Owl's whiteness or privilege as such, if I'm not mistaken, "spoken like one who has not been on the receiving end of those missteps" is the lackey race baiting crap I'm calling out. Tit for tat. It's lack of concern for those deemed unessential and race has little to do with it. You need some depth to your perspective if you think minorities are the only ones who have been victimized and their stories not told.

Again, I didn’t mention race. These historical issues as you illustrate run the gamut across economics, race, gender, religion, and on and on. Those issues should be discussed in schools as much as the “good” history. Quit sugar-coating history in the name of American “success.”

IMO the only people who would be against that are the people who have historically benefitted from that glossing over.

(02-25-2021 10:36 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:29 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:13 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Spoken like someone who has not been on the receiving end of many of those missteps in our country. The others on the receiving end of those
missteps deserve to have their stories told to give true historical context & not a glossing over as well.

You mean like the 100's or more of mostly white troops used to test the effects of fallout on humans after some of the first nuclear tests? I'm afraid when it comes to government abuse of citizens the radioactivity falls fairly equally on all. Just ask the women who painted the radium dials on the Bulova watches that the U.S. Army Air Corps gave pilots so they could see rendezvous times at night and estimate distances to bomb runs. Those women were the white middle class daughters of Americans. Most died from oral cancer. So we can match racial atrocities tit for tat, but I bet you were never taught any of that!

The issue is not racial. The issue is elite vs everyone else.

I didn’t mention race, bud.

Since the parents & alumni made this survey on the OP, might I suggest you do the same for your district with these?

You were questioning Owl's whiteness or privilege as such, if I'm not mistaken, "spoken like one who has not been on the receiving end of those missteps" is the lackey race baiting crap I'm calling out. Tit for tat. It's lack of concern for those deemed unessential and race has little to do with it. You need some depth to your perspective if you think minorities are the only ones who have been victimized and their stories not told.

Again, I didn’t mention race. These historical issues as you illustrate run the gamut across economics, race, gender, religion, and on and on. Those issues should be discussed in schools as much as the “good” history.

I'm for all such incidents being on public record, and all of the good. Today it might be more productive if corporate atrocities received a lot more coverage.

That said our aim should be to find a way to focus on the positive and mutually beneficial way forward in the face of daunting adversaries. To break apart society over the sins of our grandparents or older doesn't bring the strength of unity and purpose we need to survive and I see this diversion as playing to the strengths of those who would destroy us.

The truth of the past should be told, all of it. But the focus needs to be on the future of our nation. We should be discussing contemporary ills and issues with the aim of resolution. Practically nobody alive today is responsible for the sins of the 1700's through the 1930's. Those who had a hand in the sins of the 50's and 60's are fading fast. Let's solve today's issues and let historians document the sins of the past for us. If it is a pound of flesh you want for ancient transgressions then the only result will be universal misery and injustice.

11

(02-25-2021 10:36 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:29 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:13 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Spoken like someone who has not been on the receiving end of many of those missteps in our country. The others on the receiving end of those
missteps deserve to have their stories told to give true historical context & not a glossing over as well.

You mean like the 100's or more of mostly white troops used to test the effects of fallout on humans after some of the first nuclear tests? I'm afraid when it comes to government abuse of citizens the radioactivity falls fairly equally on all. Just ask the women who painted the radium dials on the Bulova watches that the U.S. Army Air Corps gave pilots so they could see rendezvous times at night and estimate distances to bomb runs. Those women were the white middle class daughters of Americans. Most died from oral cancer. So we can match racial atrocities tit for tat, but I bet you were never taught any of that!

The issue is not racial. The issue is elite vs everyone else.

I didn’t mention race, bud.

Since the parents & alumni made this survey on the OP, might I suggest you do the same for your district with these?

You were questioning Owl's whiteness or privilege as such, if I'm not mistaken, "spoken like one who has not been on the receiving end of those missteps" is the lackey race baiting crap I'm calling out. Tit for tat. It's lack of concern for those deemed unessential and race has little to do with it. You need some depth to your perspective if you think minorities are the only ones who have been victimized and their stories not told.

Again, I didn’t mention race. These historical issues as you illustrate run the gamut across economics, race, gender, religion, and on and on. Those issues should be discussed in schools as much as the “good” history. Quit sugar-coating history in the name of American “success.”

IMO the only people who would be against that are the people who have historically benefitted from that glossing over.

Here is the unsugarcoated part. Dont be a dumb*** and you dont get conquered. It wont change. My ancestors have conquered dumbasses for millennia. It won't change.

Sorry. Know your role. Serve us.

Vote Democrat

Because no matter how you vote. No matter how you feel. You will be sheep and we will shear you. We will work the system. No matter what. You cant fix it.

Accept it. It's not white privilege. Its smart privilege

(02-25-2021 10:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:36 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:29 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  You mean like the 100's or more of mostly white troops used to test the effects of fallout on humans after some of the first nuclear tests? I'm afraid when it comes to government abuse of citizens the radioactivity falls fairly equally on all. Just ask the women who painted the radium dials on the Bulova watches that the U.S. Army Air Corps gave pilots so they could see rendezvous times at night and estimate distances to bomb runs. Those women were the white middle class daughters of Americans. Most died from oral cancer. So we can match racial atrocities tit for tat, but I bet you were never taught any of that!

The issue is not racial. The issue is elite vs everyone else.

I didn’t mention race, bud.

Since the parents & alumni made this survey on the OP, might I suggest you do the same for your district with these?

You were questioning Owl's whiteness or privilege as such, if I'm not mistaken, "spoken like one who has not been on the receiving end of those missteps" is the lackey race baiting crap I'm calling out. Tit for tat. It's lack of concern for those deemed unessential and race has little to do with it. You need some depth to your perspective if you think minorities are the only ones who have been victimized and their stories not told.

Again, I didn’t mention race. These historical issues as you illustrate run the gamut across economics, race, gender, religion, and on and on. Those issues should be discussed in schools as much as the “good” history.

I'm for all such incidents being on public record, and all of the good. Today it might be more productive if corporate atrocities received a lot more coverage.

That said our aim should be to find a way to focus on the positive and mutually beneficial way forward in the face of daunting adversaries. To break apart society over the sins of our grandparents or older doesn't bring the strength of unity and purpose we need to survive and I see this diversion as playing to the strengths of those who would destroy us.

The truth of the past should be told, all of it. But the focus needs to be on the future of our nation. We should be discussing contemporary ills and issues with the aim of resolution. Practically nobody alive today is responsible for the sins of the 1700's through the 1930's. Those who had a hand in the sins of the 50's and 60's are fading fast. Let's solve today's issues and let historians document the sins of the past for us. If it is a pound of flesh you want for ancient transgressions then the only result will be universal misery and injustice.

Spare me the pound of flesh talk...covering history (some of which we have been alive for) that has been largely ignored in schools is not that. Educating students about these situations is one way to truly focus on the future of the nation. Learn from these horrible things that have happened.

(02-25-2021 10:55 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:36 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:29 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  I didn’t mention race, bud.

Since the parents & alumni made this survey on the OP, might I suggest you do the same for your district with these?

You were questioning Owl's whiteness or privilege as such, if I'm not mistaken, "spoken like one who has not been on the receiving end of those missteps" is the lackey race baiting crap I'm calling out. Tit for tat. It's lack of concern for those deemed unessential and race has little to do with it. You need some depth to your perspective if you think minorities are the only ones who have been victimized and their stories not told.

Again, I didn’t mention race. These historical issues as you illustrate run the gamut across economics, race, gender, religion, and on and on. Those issues should be discussed in schools as much as the “good” history.

I'm for all such incidents being on public record, and all of the good. Today it might be more productive if corporate atrocities received a lot more coverage.

That said our aim should be to find a way to focus on the positive and mutually beneficial way forward in the face of daunting adversaries. To break apart society over the sins of our grandparents or older doesn't bring the strength of unity and purpose we need to survive and I see this diversion as playing to the strengths of those who would destroy us.

The truth of the past should be told, all of it. But the focus needs to be on the future of our nation. We should be discussing contemporary ills and issues with the aim of resolution. Practically nobody alive today is responsible for the sins of the 1700's through the 1930's. Those who had a hand in the sins of the 50's and 60's are fading fast. Let's solve today's issues and let historians document the sins of the past for us. If it is a pound of flesh you want for ancient transgressions then the only result will be universal misery and injustice.

Spare me the pound of flesh talk...covering history (some of which we have been alive for) that has been largely ignored in schools is not that.

History is an ass kicking. It won't change. Stupid loses.

(02-25-2021 10:55 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:36 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:29 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  I didn’t mention race, bud.

Since the parents & alumni made this survey on the OP, might I suggest you do the same for your district with these?

You were questioning Owl's whiteness or privilege as such, if I'm not mistaken, "spoken like one who has not been on the receiving end of those missteps" is the lackey race baiting crap I'm calling out. Tit for tat. It's lack of concern for those deemed unessential and race has little to do with it. You need some depth to your perspective if you think minorities are the only ones who have been victimized and their stories not told.

Again, I didn’t mention race. These historical issues as you illustrate run the gamut across economics, race, gender, religion, and on and on. Those issues should be discussed in schools as much as the “good” history.

I'm for all such incidents being on public record, and all of the good. Today it might be more productive if corporate atrocities received a lot more coverage.

That said our aim should be to find a way to focus on the positive and mutually beneficial way forward in the face of daunting adversaries. To break apart society over the sins of our grandparents or older doesn't bring the strength of unity and purpose we need to survive and I see this diversion as playing to the strengths of those who would destroy us.

The truth of the past should be told, all of it. But the focus needs to be on the future of our nation. We should be discussing contemporary ills and issues with the aim of resolution. Practically nobody alive today is responsible for the sins of the 1700's through the 1930's. Those who had a hand in the sins of the 50's and 60's are fading fast. Let's solve today's issues and let historians document the sins of the past for us. If it is a pound of flesh you want for ancient transgressions then the only result will be universal misery and injustice.

Spare me the pound of flesh talk...covering history (some of which we have been alive for) that has been largely ignored in schools is not that.

I don't spare anyone anything who wants to sabotage the well being of the nation. It's not perfect but it's better than anything anywhere else, at least anywhere the people are as diverse. There are some nations which don't have race problems because they only have one race, like China where the minorities are in work camps and the only diversity is in visitors. Bud!

I've lived this before, it's the same old Maoist Marxism as the 60's. It's been rewashed, rehashed, and used to stir unrest. It's ignorant, counterproductive, accomplishes nothing other than needless suffering, and those who espouse it do no service to the nation. Reflection is good. Acknowledgement of wrongs productive. But all is for naught if there isn't a consensus on the way forward. This doesn't end well any other way.

And as far as what is ignored in schools age appropriateness is necessary for absorption and processing. The young tend not to know how to contextualize or ask appropriate questions. They tend to be absolute in their formed opinions. You discuss complex social issues with adults, not children. Unless of course you are seeking to propagandize instead of educate and contextualize.

(02-25-2021 11:06 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:55 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:36 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  You were questioning Owl's whiteness or privilege as such, if I'm not mistaken, "spoken like one who has not been on the receiving end of those missteps" is the lackey race baiting crap I'm calling out. Tit for tat. It's lack of concern for those deemed unessential and race has little to do with it. You need some depth to your perspective if you think minorities are the only ones who have been victimized and their stories not told.

Again, I didn’t mention race. These historical issues as you illustrate run the gamut across economics, race, gender, religion, and on and on. Those issues should be discussed in schools as much as the “good” history.

I'm for all such incidents being on public record, and all of the good. Today it might be more productive if corporate atrocities received a lot more coverage.

That said our aim should be to find a way to focus on the positive and mutually beneficial way forward in the face of daunting adversaries. To break apart society over the sins of our grandparents or older doesn't bring the strength of unity and purpose we need to survive and I see this diversion as playing to the strengths of those who would destroy us.

The truth of the past should be told, all of it. But the focus needs to be on the future of our nation. We should be discussing contemporary ills and issues with the aim of resolution. Practically nobody alive today is responsible for the sins of the 1700's through the 1930's. Those who had a hand in the sins of the 50's and 60's are fading fast. Let's solve today's issues and let historians document the sins of the past for us. If it is a pound of flesh you want for ancient transgressions then the only result will be universal misery and injustice.

Spare me the pound of flesh talk...covering history (some of which we have been alive for) that has been largely ignored in schools is not that.

I don't spare anyone anything who wants to sabotage the well being of the nation. It's not perfect but it's better than anything anywhere else, at least anywhere the people are as diverse. There are some nations which don't have race problems because they only have one race, like China where the minorities are in work camps and the only diversity is in visitors. Bud!

I've lived this before, it's the same old Maoist Marxism as the 60's. It's been rewashed, rehashed, and used to stir unrest. It's ignorant, counterproductive, accomplishes nothing other than needless suffering, and those who espouse it do no service to the nation. Reflection is good. Acknowledgement of wrongs productive. But all is for naught if there isn't a consensus on the way forward. This doesn't end well any other way.

And as far as what is ignored in schools age appropriateness is necessary for absorption and processing. The young tend not to know how to contextualize or ask appropriate questions. They tend to be absolute in their formed opinions. You discuss complex social issues with adults, not children. Unless of course you are seeking to propagandize instead of educate and contextualize.

I've gone full dark side JR. Let the morons become subservient. It's time to rule them. They crave it. Let's oblige them.

(02-25-2021 11:06 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:55 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:36 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  You were questioning Owl's whiteness or privilege as such, if I'm not mistaken, "spoken like one who has not been on the receiving end of those missteps" is the lackey race baiting crap I'm calling out. Tit for tat. It's lack of concern for those deemed unessential and race has little to do with it. You need some depth to your perspective if you think minorities are the only ones who have been victimized and their stories not told.

Again, I didn’t mention race. These historical issues as you illustrate run the gamut across economics, race, gender, religion, and on and on. Those issues should be discussed in schools as much as the “good” history.

I'm for all such incidents being on public record, and all of the good. Today it might be more productive if corporate atrocities received a lot more coverage.

That said our aim should be to find a way to focus on the positive and mutually beneficial way forward in the face of daunting adversaries. To break apart society over the sins of our grandparents or older doesn't bring the strength of unity and purpose we need to survive and I see this diversion as playing to the strengths of those who would destroy us.

The truth of the past should be told, all of it. But the focus needs to be on the future of our nation. We should be discussing contemporary ills and issues with the aim of resolution. Practically nobody alive today is responsible for the sins of the 1700's through the 1930's. Those who had a hand in the sins of the 50's and 60's are fading fast. Let's solve today's issues and let historians document the sins of the past for us. If it is a pound of flesh you want for ancient transgressions then the only result will be universal misery and injustice.

Spare me the pound of flesh talk...covering history (some of which we have been alive for) that has been largely ignored in schools is not that.

I don't spare anyone anything who wants to sabotage the well being of the nation. It's not perfect but it's better than anything anywhere else, at least anywhere the people are as diverse. There are some nations which don't have race problems because they only have one race, like China where the minorities are in work camps and the only diversity is in visitors. Bud!

I've lived this before, it's the same old Maoist Marxism as the 60's. It's been rewashed, rehashed, and used to stir unrest. It's ignorant, counterproductive, accomplishes nothing other than needless suffering, and those who espouse it do no service to the nation. Reflection is good. Acknowledgement of wrongs productive. But all is for naught if there isn't a consensus on the way forward. This doesn't end well any other way.

And as far as what is ignored in schools age appropriateness is necessary for absorption and processing. The young tend not to know how to contextualize or ask appropriate questions. They tend to be absolute in their formed opinions. You discuss complex social issues with adults, not children. Unless of course you are seeking to propagandize instead of educate and contextualize.

Age appropriate teaching isn’t the issue. Elementary kids are taught about wars and are literally living through a historical pandemic now, for goodness’ sake.

(02-25-2021 11:10 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 11:06 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:55 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:36 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  Again, I didn’t mention race. These historical issues as you illustrate run the gamut across economics, race, gender, religion, and on and on. Those issues should be discussed in schools as much as the “good” history.

I'm for all such incidents being on public record, and all of the good. Today it might be more productive if corporate atrocities received a lot more coverage.

That said our aim should be to find a way to focus on the positive and mutually beneficial way forward in the face of daunting adversaries. To break apart society over the sins of our grandparents or older doesn't bring the strength of unity and purpose we need to survive and I see this diversion as playing to the strengths of those who would destroy us.

The truth of the past should be told, all of it. But the focus needs to be on the future of our nation. We should be discussing contemporary ills and issues with the aim of resolution. Practically nobody alive today is responsible for the sins of the 1700's through the 1930's. Those who had a hand in the sins of the 50's and 60's are fading fast. Let's solve today's issues and let historians document the sins of the past for us. If it is a pound of flesh you want for ancient transgressions then the only result will be universal misery and injustice.

Spare me the pound of flesh talk...covering history (some of which we have been alive for) that has been largely ignored in schools is not that.

I don't spare anyone anything who wants to sabotage the well being of the nation. It's not perfect but it's better than anything anywhere else, at least anywhere the people are as diverse. There are some nations which don't have race problems because they only have one race, like China where the minorities are in work camps and the only diversity is in visitors. Bud!

I've lived this before, it's the same old Maoist Marxism as the 60's. It's been rewashed, rehashed, and used to stir unrest. It's ignorant, counterproductive, accomplishes nothing other than needless suffering, and those who espouse it do no service to the nation. Reflection is good. Acknowledgement of wrongs productive. But all is for naught if there isn't a consensus on the way forward. This doesn't end well any other way.

And as far as what is ignored in schools age appropriateness is necessary for absorption and processing. The young tend not to know how to contextualize or ask appropriate questions. They tend to be absolute in their formed opinions. You discuss complex social issues with adults, not children. Unless of course you are seeking to propagandize instead of educate and contextualize.

Age appropriate teaching isn’t the issue. Elementary kids are taught about wars and are literally living through a historical pandemic now, for goodness’ sake.

There is a huge difference between teaching a child that there was a war and who won and why, and showing them the pictures of the shattered bodies, or even showing them the opening of Saving Private Ryan, which horrific as it was is still nothing like the real deal. Age appropriateness is not in what happened so much as it is in to what degree it happened.

When I first saw the clips of the Holocaust victims I was too young to even be horrified by it. It did however, taken out of age appropriateness desensitize me to it when I viewed it again as an adult and when the only saving grace I had in the viewing was the empathy I had for what had happened to those people because I could identify with them rather than seeing a bulldozed pile of corpses that looked like rag dolls and mannequins which is what I saw as a child.

Here is the real truth


Walk into an elementary school class and say 90 % of you are drones. 10% will completely dominate you. They will placate you with ridiculous missives and platitudes. The truth is, most of you are dumbasses and will be fed a shittone of PC propaganda to make you feel good. None of it will matter you are fricked .

So cherish and celebrate whatever bologna you are fed. Then go make widgets and stfu.

(02-25-2021 11:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 11:10 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 11:06 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:55 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 10:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I'm for all such incidents being on public record, and all of the good. Today it might be more productive if corporate atrocities received a lot more coverage.

That said our aim should be to find a way to focus on the positive and mutually beneficial way forward in the face of daunting adversaries. To break apart society over the sins of our grandparents or older doesn't bring the strength of unity and purpose we need to survive and I see this diversion as playing to the strengths of those who would destroy us.

The truth of the past should be told, all of it. But the focus needs to be on the future of our nation. We should be discussing contemporary ills and issues with the aim of resolution. Practically nobody alive today is responsible for the sins of the 1700's through the 1930's. Those who had a hand in the sins of the 50's and 60's are fading fast. Let's solve today's issues and let historians document the sins of the past for us. If it is a pound of flesh you want for ancient transgressions then the only result will be universal misery and injustice.

Spare me the pound of flesh talk...covering history (some of which we have been alive for) that has been largely ignored in schools is not that.

I don't spare anyone anything who wants to sabotage the well being of the nation. It's not perfect but it's better than anything anywhere else, at least anywhere the people are as diverse. There are some nations which don't have race problems because they only have one race, like China where the minorities are in work camps and the only diversity is in visitors. Bud!

I've lived this before, it's the same old Maoist Marxism as the 60's. It's been rewashed, rehashed, and used to stir unrest. It's ignorant, counterproductive, accomplishes nothing other than needless suffering, and those who espouse it do no service to the nation. Reflection is good. Acknowledgement of wrongs productive. But all is for naught if there isn't a consensus on the way forward. This doesn't end well any other way.

And as far as what is ignored in schools age appropriateness is necessary for absorption and processing. The young tend not to know how to contextualize or ask appropriate questions. They tend to be absolute in their formed opinions. You discuss complex social issues with adults, not children. Unless of course you are seeking to propagandize instead of educate and contextualize.

Age appropriate teaching isn’t the issue. Elementary kids are taught about wars and are literally living through a historical pandemic now, for goodness’ sake.

There is a huge difference between teaching a child that there was a war and who won and why, and showing them the pictures of the shattered bodies, or even showing them the opening of Saving Private Ryan, which horrific as it was is still nothing like the real deal. Age appropriateness is not in what happened so much as it is in to what degree it happened.

When I first saw the clips of the Holocaust victims I was too young to even be horrified by it. It did however, taken out of age appropriateness desensitize me to it when I viewed it again as an adult and when the only saving grace I had in the viewing was the empathy I had for what had happened to those people because I could identify with them rather than seeing a bulldozed pile of corpses that looked like rag dolls and mannequins which is what I saw as a child.

I’d be curious as to what grade levels the survey (again, not a survey sent by the district) in the OP is even referring to.

If we can discuss war in elementary school without showing them Saving Private Ryan I have zero doubt the issues listed in the survey could be discussed at an age appropriate level as well.

(02-25-2021 04:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 03:52 PM)king king Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 03:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 03:44 PM)king king Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 03:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  That's not an option. It is far easier to resist communism/socialism/fascism than it is to recover from it. Without a colossal military defeat give me an instance where any of those systems were overturned? You can't because those who would do so aren't in power and have no weapons.

East Germany tore down the wall because the Soviet Union recognized 2 things to be true, neither of which threatened them.

1. It was too expensive to prop up the East Germans.

2. The West Germans were moving back into a corporatist fascism which embraced socialistic tendencies and were their most willing Western trading partners.

Remember free people defeated Germany, Italy and Japan so those failed due to colossal military defeat. North Vietnam expanded at our expense. North Korea held fast at our expense. China is expanding at our expense. Venezuela has not substantively changed. Cuba is still Marxist.

If the US is permitted to fall into any semblance of Marxism Socialism the Dark Age that follows will be global and we will have no allies with which to arm ourselves and resist.

We aren't talking a passing phase. We are talking abject ruin for our children and grandchildren.

When the USSR fell in 91, there was almost zero bloodshed. Certainly no colossal military defeat.

And did the socialist state fail? Did the leadership radically change? Or did they find a less offensive way to market their agenda and transform socialism into fascism? I'll give you a hint. Putin's most admired world leader was Adolf Hitler. Putin was KGB. Putin is still the leader of a totalitarian regime and those who oppose him still find a way of dying by extraordinary means.

I give Putin this credit, his facelift of the USSR was absolutely the best bit of propaganda ever. Goebbels looks like an amateur by comparison.

You just moved the goalpost.

I answered your original question with a fact.

We can argue the weeds of what is and what isn't a democratic Russia, however, when the USSR failed, Putin was a KGB guy in East Germany.

Putin and Russia today - and since he came into power - do not equal USSR--->Russia in July 1991.

No sir your so called fact was a lie. The system of government in the USSR vs the so called fall of the Soviet Union and rebirth of Russia did not end the totalitarianism of the first, it merely repackaged it in a way that was more economical for the state. To imply totalitarianism ended with the fall of the first because of semantics is propaganda.

You sir attempted to move the goalposts, not I, by claiming something that looks like a fact (the USSR failed) but which objective scrutiny reveals to be a canard, it is still totalitarian, is somehow an exception to my assertion. It is not. They did teach you that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is most likely a duck? Well the same thing applies to the goosestep.

What you did is to give a great of example of how the left lies by how they word, or as Alinsky would put it, frame the presentation of a debate.

My point was that a totalitarian government (socialist, communist, fascist) doesn't change unless it is forced to change by military defeat. Russia is still totalitarian. They cut loose their support of the non productive parts of the old Soviet Union, focused their economic power on what was the most efficient to control and moved from a socialist society that claimed Marxism - Leninism as its core set of values to one that is a socialist society that claims corporate ideals as its core set of values which is more fascist in nature but then so is Putin. Darwin would applaud. They mutated to survive.

The system of government they used pre-July 1991 was communism.

Communism did NOT exist there after that time.

I can verify that first hand having witnessed it there in June 1992.

You listed three types of government - communism, socialism, fascism - and asked about an instance where one failed without a military battle. I gave you one.

Totalitarianism is NOT what is going on in Russia now. It is more authoritarianism as the people there do enjoy certain freedoms that were unthinkable pre-1991 and the political power centers around the main guy (Putin). Putin isn't worried about controlling the populace to the extreme that totalitarianism would engender. He just wants to stay in power and the education, arts, social aspects, etc of the rest of their society is pretty open. All of those things were controlled very carefully when they were communist.

(02-25-2021 05:08 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 04:17 PM)king king Wrote:  

(02-25-2021 04:14 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Isolated facts contrived by marxist prog filth does not constitute truth.

I cant dumb this down further.

Sigh.

Nobody is arguing that they be contrived.

Facts cant be contrived. Contrived facts are lies.

Like you trying to argue that anyone is arguing for that.

Dammit king. That was the whole topic of the thread. Read the op. I know concentration and comprehension are tough. Please try to pay attention. Did you suffer some kind of head trauma.

Why do I bother

a false narrative can be contrived with selected facts. The truth is elusive.

Hitler was a vegan that loved dogs and cared for his family

All facts. Does not represent truth.

Dammit to hell. I need a sedative.

Sorry Shere.

I realize now I should have been so much more specific in light of the limited brain capacity of the person I'm talking to.

The subject and verb part of my sentence (nobody is arguing) was referring to the people in this thread arguing that facts be taught. This is exclusive of the OP. I already stated in my first post in the very first line that I'm not for indoctrinating kids.

Teach the facts. All of them. Leave out the slant and let kids make up their own minds about who was at fault or who subjugated whom.

This isn't hard but for some reason you dont seem to be able to understand. That's ok.