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(02-21-2021 05:34 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:58 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:48 PM)Banter Wrote:  A lot of really bad takes and hyperbole in here. It's like some of you never looked at the roster and realized just how decimated it was after the past two years.

Many of you are still riding high on the glory of 30 years ago and haven't realized we have been a mediocre program for two decades. Recruits don't care that we have a lot of wins. Kids we are recruiting now were not alive in 1999 when we had our last good team.

Xavier past us about 15 years ago even while playing in a smaller conference. They were more exciting, they won games when it counted and they continue to ride that momentum and we can't catch up.

Cronin won us a lot of games, but very few that mattered. We have to rebuild the program and build an identity. Many of you are missing the fact we have not been "cool" in 20 years. We have generations of graduates(like myself) who view UC as a football school.

This rebuild won't happen overnight and this is basically year one. I am still holding some faith in CJB. He has yet to have a normal year to try and get his program going, and that is a shame. In his limited time he had recruited fairly well. There have been a lot of snap judgements made about the ability of some of these players, but people fail to grasp that many of these guys would not be seeing much time if we had a full roster. Gary Clark likely would not have been Gary Clark had he not had a very experienced roster around him. Saunders is likely a redshirt guy, but many people are already writing him off.

In all likelihood (as it stands now) his inability to shift the way he recruits this season likely gets him fired after next year baring some sort of big win on the transfer market.

As an older fan, I concur with some of the points you are making. Nobody outside our fan base cares that we went to 9 NCAATs in a row from 2011-2019. If you don’t make it to the SS or knock off a Blue Blood OOC it simply does not matter. That’s the thing about CBB vs. CFB- in FB every game matters. Most of America does not start paying attention to CBB until March.

People watch the first and second rounds of the tournament to see who makes it to the second weekend. Teams that lose are mentally compartmentalized as also-rans, if not outright failures.

No, most people can’t name who went how far in the tournament.

(02-21-2021 05:34 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:58 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:48 PM)Banter Wrote:  A lot of really bad takes and hyperbole in here. It's like some of you never looked at the roster and realized just how decimated it was after the past two years.

Many of you are still riding high on the glory of 30 years ago and haven't realized we have been a mediocre program for two decades. Recruits don't care that we have a lot of wins. Kids we are recruiting now were not alive in 1999 when we had our last good team.

Xavier past us about 15 years ago even while playing in a smaller conference. They were more exciting, they won games when it counted and they continue to ride that momentum and we can't catch up.

Cronin won us a lot of games, but very few that mattered. We have to rebuild the program and build an identity. Many of you are missing the fact we have not been "cool" in 20 years. We have generations of graduates(like myself) who view UC as a football school.

This rebuild won't happen overnight and this is basically year one. I am still holding some faith in CJB. He has yet to have a normal year to try and get his program going, and that is a shame. In his limited time he had recruited fairly well. There have been a lot of snap judgements made about the ability of some of these players, but people fail to grasp that many of these guys would not be seeing much time if we had a full roster. Gary Clark likely would not have been Gary Clark had he not had a very experienced roster around him. Saunders is likely a redshirt guy, but many people are already writing him off.

In all likelihood (as it stands now) his inability to shift the way he recruits this season likely gets him fired after next year baring some sort of big win on the transfer market.

As an older fan, I concur with some of the points you are making. Nobody outside our fan base cares that we went to 9 NCAATs in a row from 2011-2019. If you don’t make it to the SS or knock off a Blue Blood OOC it simply does not matter. That’s the thing about CBB vs. CFB- in FB every game matters. Most of America does not start paying attention to CBB until March.

People watch the first and second rounds of the tournament to see who makes it to the second weekend. Teams that lose are mentally compartmentalized as also-rans, if not outright failures.

Correct. Go out onto the CR forum on this board: people will universally tell you we were a middle of the road program that hasn’t been relevant since the 1990s/early 2000s. Meanwhile they will sing the praises of a UConn who was our biatch from 2016-2019 and finished in the second half of the AAC more often than not of late. Why? Because they won a NC in 2014.

(02-21-2021 05:37 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 05:34 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:58 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:48 PM)Banter Wrote:  A lot of really bad takes and hyperbole in here. It's like some of you never looked at the roster and realized just how decimated it was after the past two years.

Many of you are still riding high on the glory of 30 years ago and haven't realized we have been a mediocre program for two decades. Recruits don't care that we have a lot of wins. Kids we are recruiting now were not alive in 1999 when we had our last good team.

Xavier past us about 15 years ago even while playing in a smaller conference. They were more exciting, they won games when it counted and they continue to ride that momentum and we can't catch up.

Cronin won us a lot of games, but very few that mattered. We have to rebuild the program and build an identity. Many of you are missing the fact we have not been "cool" in 20 years. We have generations of graduates(like myself) who view UC as a football school.

This rebuild won't happen overnight and this is basically year one. I am still holding some faith in CJB. He has yet to have a normal year to try and get his program going, and that is a shame. In his limited time he had recruited fairly well. There have been a lot of snap judgements made about the ability of some of these players, but people fail to grasp that many of these guys would not be seeing much time if we had a full roster. Gary Clark likely would not have been Gary Clark had he not had a very experienced roster around him. Saunders is likely a redshirt guy, but many people are already writing him off.

In all likelihood (as it stands now) his inability to shift the way he recruits this season likely gets him fired after next year baring some sort of big win on the transfer market.

As an older fan, I concur with some of the points you are making. Nobody outside our fan base cares that we went to 9 NCAATs in a row from 2011-2019. If you don’t make it to the SS or knock off a Blue Blood OOC it simply does not matter. That’s the thing about CBB vs. CFB- in FB every game matters. Most of America does not start paying attention to CBB until March.

People watch the first and second rounds of the tournament to see who makes it to the second weekend. Teams that lose are mentally compartmentalized as also-rans, if not outright failures.

No, most people can’t name who went how far in the tournament.

Yes, this.

No one else cares about our tournament streak. I think UC fans might have a bit more appreciation for it in a month or so though.

Most people have no idea who does what in college basketball. They know about Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Kentucky are usually elite. They know about “basketball” schools like Gonzaga and Villanova. Honestly Cincinnati, UCLA, Indiana, and handful of other programs get lumped into used to be elite now just good category. Overall the more you make the tournament and get high seeds the better chance you have building your brand.

College basketball isn’t close to being as popular as it was 20 to 30 years ago so generally people aren’t paying attention to any results. Transfers have changed recruiting, you can fire a coach and have brand new ready to go in year 1. Another huge difference is that Juco used to the pipeline to instant success. Huggins used it at UC, today it is the transfer portal is the way to get good quickly.

I think Brannen should try some new plays.

(02-21-2021 04:40 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:27 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:23 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:09 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 03:58 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  Vogt has been in Brannen's system for 3 or 4 years. Today he scored two points and was completely out of his element on the floor. After a decent season a year ago, he has regressed. Williams was 1-10 today and continuously dribbled the ball into traffic for either a missed layup or a turnover. The 78% free throw shooter has morphed into a 50% free throw shooter. Adams-Woods has been a starter for two full seasons. Today he was scoreless, has 0 rebounds and 0 assists. Saunders tries hard, but there is no evidence that he is a high-level player. Same with Madsen. Today, as is common, our interior defense and rebounding was below sub-par. We foul too much and turn it over too much. Recruiting is not where it needs to be. In short, UC basketball, after 9 consecutive NCAA tourney appearances, is going nowhere. There is no evidence to suggest that Brannen has the ability to turn it around and put this program back to where it needs to be. Houston is a good team, but for UC to lose to Houston by 40 points should NEVER, EVER happen. There is a reason the all-time series is 34-6 in favor of Cincy.

All this. College basketball is all about the HC and his ability to place his stamp on the program by sheer force of will. Remember when Huggs rolled into town? The fanbase knew he was the guy within a few games even though the tournament was still two years away. Brannen talks a good game, but doesn't produce.

Ok yes. BUT ALSO, he won the league last year. And we knew this year was gonna suck. At least those of us who were being honest with ourselves did.

Split the title three ways* with an unbalanced schedule that heavily favored UC over Houston.

I’m of the opinion that you should throw out last year when evaluating CJB

Wait, so you think last year shouldn't count but this year somehow should? This year which has had significantly more changes?

(02-21-2021 07:24 PM)Sweetness Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:40 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  I’m of the opinion that you should throw out last year when evaluating CJB

Wait, so you think last year shouldn't count but this year somehow should? This year which has had significantly more changes?

Exactly. Don't count the conference championship. But make all your judgments based on year 2 where he turned over basically his entire roster since he was hired and has had to try to get a bunch of freshman and sophomores desperately needed to compete up to speed and playing together in a covid year without a normal offseason with weird isolation protocols while missing 25 games mid season. You can know everything from that.

(02-21-2021 05:43 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 05:34 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:58 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:48 PM)Banter Wrote:  A lot of really bad takes and hyperbole in here. It's like some of you never looked at the roster and realized just how decimated it was after the past two years.

Many of you are still riding high on the glory of 30 years ago and haven't realized we have been a mediocre program for two decades. Recruits don't care that we have a lot of wins. Kids we are recruiting now were not alive in 1999 when we had our last good team.

Xavier past us about 15 years ago even while playing in a smaller conference. They were more exciting, they won games when it counted and they continue to ride that momentum and we can't catch up.

Cronin won us a lot of games, but very few that mattered. We have to rebuild the program and build an identity. Many of you are missing the fact we have not been "cool" in 20 years. We have generations of graduates(like myself) who view UC as a football school.

This rebuild won't happen overnight and this is basically year one. I am still holding some faith in CJB. He has yet to have a normal year to try and get his program going, and that is a shame. In his limited time he had recruited fairly well. There have been a lot of snap judgements made about the ability of some of these players, but people fail to grasp that many of these guys would not be seeing much time if we had a full roster. Gary Clark likely would not have been Gary Clark had he not had a very experienced roster around him. Saunders is likely a redshirt guy, but many people are already writing him off.

In all likelihood (as it stands now) his inability to shift the way he recruits this season likely gets him fired after next year baring some sort of big win on the transfer market.

As an older fan, I concur with some of the points you are making. Nobody outside our fan base cares that we went to 9 NCAATs in a row from 2011-2019. If you don’t make it to the SS or knock off a Blue Blood OOC it simply does not matter. That’s the thing about CBB vs. CFB- in FB every game matters. Most of America does not start paying attention to CBB until March.

People watch the first and second rounds of the tournament to see who makes it to the second weekend. Teams that lose are mentally compartmentalized as also-rans, if not outright failures.

Correct. Go out onto the CR forum on this board: people will universally tell you we were a middle of the road program that hasn’t been relevant since the 1990s/early 2000s. Meanwhile they will sing the praises of a UConn who was our biatch from 2016-2019 and finished in the second half of the AAC more often than not of late. Why? Because they won a NC in 2014.

And 2011, and 2004, and 1999. Tough comparison

Last year was happy we tied for conference champion, but that team underachieved with the talent on the roster. I was giving him a pass this year because we were seeing what I thought was promise. Now we lose Madsen and Harvey, get wrecked by Houston, and have 0 recruits coming in for next year. I'm willing to let this play out for one more year but it's extremely likely it's a bust.

(02-21-2021 07:35 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 07:24 PM)Sweetness Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 04:40 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  I’m of the opinion that you should throw out last year when evaluating CJB

Wait, so you think last year shouldn't count but this year somehow should? This year which has had significantly more changes?

Exactly. Don't count the conference championship. But make all your judgments based on year 2 where he turned over basically his entire roster since he was hired and has had to try to get a bunch of freshman and sophomores desperately needed to compete up to speed and playing together in a covid year without a normal offseason with weird isolation protocols while missing 25 games mid season. You can know everything from that.

I’m not making all my judgements based on year 2. I’m just saying there are reasons Brannen should get a break for this season. And for those who want to use last season as a defense for Brannen, there are reasons why he shouldn’t get a ton of credit for last season.

Yes this season is more Brannen’s team than last year’s, but I think he has to get a pass in all of this mess.

(02-21-2021 06:02 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Most people have no idea who does what in college basketball. They know about Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Kentucky are usually elite. They know about “basketball” schools like Gonzaga and Villanova. Honestly Cincinnati, UCLA, Indiana, and handful of other programs get lumped into used to be elite now just good category. Overall the more you make the tournament and get high seeds the better chance you have building your brand.

College basketball isn’t close to being as popular as it was 20 to 30 years ago so generally people aren’t paying attention to any results. Transfers have changed recruiting, you can fire a coach and have brand new ready to go in year 1. Another huge difference is that Juco used to the pipeline to instant success. Huggins used it at UC, today it is the transfer portal is the way to get good quickly.

I hope the ' TRANSFER PORTAL' rule is abolished soon. Too easy for players to skip to other schools if they think they aren't playing enough or think the new school will provide a path to the NBA.

(02-21-2021 08:44 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 06:02 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Most people have no idea who does what in college basketball. They know about Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Kentucky are usually elite. They know about “basketball” schools like Gonzaga and Villanova. Honestly Cincinnati, UCLA, Indiana, and handful of other programs get lumped into used to be elite now just good category. Overall the more you make the tournament and get high seeds the better chance you have building your brand.

College basketball isn’t close to being as popular as it was 20 to 30 years ago so generally people aren’t paying attention to any results. Transfers have changed recruiting, you can fire a coach and have brand new ready to go in year 1. Another huge difference is that Juco used to the pipeline to instant success. Huggins used it at UC, today it is the transfer portal is the way to get good quickly.

I hope the ' TRANSFER PORTAL' rule is abolished soon. Too easy for players to skip to other schools if they think they aren't playing enough or think the new school will provide a path to the NBA.

I would be satisfied if all transfers had to sit a year, not lose a year of eligibility, but just sit a year with no exceptions other than change of HC, in which case the transfer wouldn't have to sit. I think that would support the NCAA's interest in maintaining stability of rosters in the revenue sports while providing an exit strategy for kids whose first choice of college just isn't working out.

(02-21-2021 08:50 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 08:44 PM)bearcat54 Wrote:  

(02-21-2021 06:02 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Most people have no idea who does what in college basketball. They know about Duke, UNC, Kansas, and Kentucky are usually elite. They know about “basketball” schools like Gonzaga and Villanova. Honestly Cincinnati, UCLA, Indiana, and handful of other programs get lumped into used to be elite now just good category. Overall the more you make the tournament and get high seeds the better chance you have building your brand.

College basketball isn’t close to being as popular as it was 20 to 30 years ago so generally people aren’t paying attention to any results. Transfers have changed recruiting, you can fire a coach and have brand new ready to go in year 1. Another huge difference is that Juco used to the pipeline to instant success. Huggins used it at UC, today it is the transfer portal is the way to get good quickly.

I hope the ' TRANSFER PORTAL' rule is abolished soon. Too easy for players to skip to other schools if they think they aren't playing enough or think the new school will provide a path to the NBA.

I would be satisfied if all transfers had to sit a year, not lose a year of eligibility, but just sit a year with no exceptions other than change of HC, in which case the transfer wouldn't have to sit. I think that would support the NCAA's interest in maintaining stability of rosters in the revenue sports while providing an exit strategy for kids whose first choice of college just isn't working out.

yeah, if they cared about the student athlete, they'd let them use that redshirt year for the academic incentives but they caved to the players need to get paid crowd

how's erik martin doing over at wvu?

I'll say it again now that everyone has cooled off a bit -- Brannen will not be fired this season, nor should he be.

The guy built a nice program at NKU, and while that's obviously not the same level of talent as the AAC, there are a lot of guys he recruited at NKU that have had nice careers. Two of his recruits are starters on likely tournament teams (Jalen Tate at Arkansas and Carson Williams at Western Kentucky). Mason Faulkner transferred out and was a first team all-conference player at Western Carolina last year. Trevon Faulkner is the leading scorer on this year's NKU team, which is currently 4th in the Horizon after finishing 2nd last year. Dantez Walton averaged 16 points and 7 rebounds for NKU as a senior in 2020-21.

There is precedent for Brannen recruiting and developing players, and there is also precedent for him turning things around after a difficult season. His first year at NKU, the team finished 9-21 as it completed its transition from Division II. Year two, they win the Horizon League Tournament and go to the NCAA tournament. Year 3, regular season championship and an NIT appearance. Year 4, regular season and conference tournament champions, NCAA tournament appearance.

Let's see how the core of young guys we have now develops this offseason, and also how Brannen is able to take advantage of the massive transfer market. If we don't see progress next season, I'll be on board with moving on. I know if I was a head coaching candidate and Cincinnati canned their coach in year 2 after winning a conference championship in year 1 and dealing with heavy roster turnover/pandemic in year 2... I would probably not feel very good about taking that job.

(02-22-2021 11:45 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  I'll say it again now that everyone has cooled off a bit -- Brannen will not be fired this season, nor should he be.

The guy built a nice program at NKU, and while that's obviously not the same level of talent as the AAC, there are a lot of guys he recruited at NKU that have had nice careers. Two of his recruits are starters on likely tournament teams (Jalen Tate at Arkansas and Carson Williams at Western Kentucky). Mason Faulkner transferred out and was a first team all-conference player at Western Carolina last year. Trevon Faulkner is the leading scorer on this year's NKU team, which is currently 4th in the Horizon after finishing 2nd last year. Dantez Walton averaged 16 points and 7 rebounds for NKU as a senior in 2020-21.

There is precedent for Brannen recruiting and developing players, and there is also precedent for him turning things around after a difficult season. His first year at NKU, the team finished 9-21 as it completed its transition from Division II. Year two, they win the Horizon League Tournament and go to the NCAA tournament. Year 3, regular season championship and an NIT appearance. Year 4, regular season and conference tournament champions, NCAA tournament appearance.

Let's see how the core of young guys we have now develops this offseason, and also how Brannen is able to take advantage of the massive transfer market. If we don't see progress next season, I'll be on board with moving on. I know if I was a head coaching candidate and Cincinnati canned their coach in year 2 after winning a conference championship in year 1 and dealing with heavy roster turnover/pandemic in year 2... I would probably not feel very good about taking that job.

Great post. Bolded two great points you made. The young guys he brought in on that 9 win nku team were huge for the future of that program. Results from one year with a young, inexperienced team don't have to be the results going forward.

(02-21-2021 08:00 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  Last year was happy we tied for conference champion, but that team underachieved with the talent on the roster. I was giving him a pass this year because we were seeing what I thought was promise. Now we lose Madsen and Harvey, get wrecked by Houston, and have 0 recruits coming in for next year. I'm willing to let this play out for one more year but it's extremely likely it's a bust.

I'm not sure how you think we underachieved with the talent on our roster with JC hurt most of the year. If he was healthy there might be that argument, but in our losses for the most part he was a shell of his previous year's self. He was a/the major reason going into the year for any big time expectations. If he played the way he did in the previous year i would tend to agree, but he just wasn't healthy from the get go.

I don’t buy the rebuilding process in the new age of college basketball when players are free agents. You don’t have the luxury of finding a core group and waiting three to four years to reap the rewards. Players will leave and destroy the core you were trying to build. Today you need to win now by bringing in instant impact guys.

This isn’t the 1990s where you can rely on Jucos or 2000s where the NCAA basically but players in transfer jail which made it hard to leave a program.

Kenyon was right. We should have hired Nick Van Exel.

As much as it would have bugged all of us initially, in retrospect we probably should have hired Savino.

I'm glad our administration isn't as prone to hyperbole, emotion, and impatience as most of our board posters are. We probably would have fired Fickell after year 1 if that were the case.