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Lower g5 revolurion
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(03-02-2021 08:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-02-2021 02:23 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(03-01-2021 05:17 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The more-consistent MAC schools do fine in attendance.

My observation its been more situational.

Best all time crowd for a MAC conference game came in 2016 during the MACC between WMU and Ohio which drew 45,616. WMU was having a great season and had the alums in metro Detroit to pull off that support.

MAC teams draw well for important campus dates like homecoming and parent's weekend. Nice weather will bring out more fans. They'll draw well for P5 games or cross town rivals.

Whenever a MAC team is undefeated they'll sell out when a big season is on the line. Even at a place like Ball State which is normally a weak draw they sold out in 2008 when in the Top 25 with an undefeated season.

G5 which are consistent 25,000+ tend to be in remote mid sized cities where its too far to travel and support another school or NFL team. AAC has bucked that trend by throwing a lot of money behind its programs resulting in high profile coaches, consistent Top 25 presence, appearance of a bigger football conference ect.

Most G5 simply do not have the fan base to support their football programs at FBS level. They are running on fumes, or $20 million annual transfers from students while drawing fewer than 20k fans in the stands and resorting to accounting gymnastics to meet NCAA requirements. MAC seems particularly prone to this.

MAC fans as I said tend to key in on particular games. They are more selective with their support than attending each and every game.

When something is on the line they put up fan numbers which are more in line with other G5 conferences. A lot of the season ticket base at MAC schools comes from alumni that are 50 miles or more away so they aren't always right there for the games.

One thing this board does not talk about is the impact on program development by making the move from FCS to FBS. The MAC has participated in FBS for 40 seasons now and had the time to fundraise for facilities. Due to this its now on a different level than MVC or CAA football. Huge gap from those conferences across the board.

It shows on the MAC's record against FCS too which is above 90%. Ohio is 15-0 against FCS under Frank Solich, including Top 25 FCS programs on the slate. Its not like MAC programs are only winning 60% against FCS.

Attendance is not the only metric and the MAC as I've said with the right situations will put up good numbers.
03-02-2021 10:27 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(03-02-2021 10:27 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(03-02-2021 08:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-02-2021 02:23 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(03-01-2021 05:17 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The more-consistent MAC schools do fine in attendance.

My observation its been more situational.

Best all time crowd for a MAC conference game came in 2016 during the MACC between WMU and Ohio which drew 45,616. WMU was having a great season and had the alums in metro Detroit to pull off that support.

MAC teams draw well for important campus dates like homecoming and parent's weekend. Nice weather will bring out more fans. They'll draw well for P5 games or cross town rivals.

Whenever a MAC team is undefeated they'll sell out when a big season is on the line. Even at a place like Ball State which is normally a weak draw they sold out in 2008 when in the Top 25 with an undefeated season.

G5 which are consistent 25,000+ tend to be in remote mid sized cities where its too far to travel and support another school or NFL team. AAC has bucked that trend by throwing a lot of money behind its programs resulting in high profile coaches, consistent Top 25 presence, appearance of a bigger football conference ect.

Most G5 simply do not have the fan base to support their football programs at FBS level. They are running on fumes, or $20 million annual transfers from students while drawing fewer than 20k fans in the stands and resorting to accounting gymnastics to meet NCAA requirements. MAC seems particularly prone to this.

MAC fans as I said tend to key in on particular games. They are more selective with their support than attending each and every game.

When something is on the line they put up fan numbers which are more in line with other G5 conferences. A lot of the season ticket base at MAC schools comes from alumni that are 50 miles or more away so they aren't always right there for the games.

One thing this board does not talk about is the impact on program development by making the move from FCS to FBS. The MAC has participated in FBS for 40 seasons now and had the time to fundraise for facilities. Due to this its now on a different level than MVC or CAA football. Huge gap from those conferences across the board.

It shows on the MAC's record against FCS too which is above 90%. Ohio is 15-0 against FCS under Frank Solich, including Top 25 FCS programs on the slate. Its not like MAC programs are only winning 60% against FCS.

Attendance is not the only metric and the MAC as I've said with the right situations will put up good numbers.

I no longer think attendance should be a metric at all. There are too many things within the NCAA that induce members to be less than honest in their reporting. That's not a good position that universities should be put in.
03-02-2021 10:34 AM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(03-02-2021 02:23 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(03-01-2021 05:17 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The more-consistent MAC schools do fine in attendance.

My observation its been more situational.

Best all time crowd for a MAC conference game came in 2016 during the MACC between WMU and Ohio which drew 45,616. WMU was having a great season and had the alums in metro Detroit to pull off that support.

MAC teams draw well for important campus dates like homecoming and parent's weekend. Nice weather will bring out more fans. They'll draw well for P5 games or cross town rivals.


Whenever a MAC team is undefeated they'll sell out when a big season is on the line. Even at a place like Ball State which is normally a weak draw they sold out in 2008 when in the Top 25 with an undefeated season.

G5 which are consistent 25,000+ tend to be in remote mid sized cities where its too far to travel and support another school or NFL team. AAC has bucked that trend by throwing a lot of money behind its programs resulting in high profile coaches, consistent Top 25 presence, appearance of a bigger football conference ect.
Definitely true.

Is it a warm weather game? Is the team having a decent-to-good season? Then you can count on a great crowd at CMU/WMU/Toledo/Miami/Ohio.

Attendance usually doesn't start declining until the later weeks of the season as the 'decent' season becomes 'bad' as the teams drop out of the division race, and the weather gets colder (and more recently the shift to weeknight games, although November games on Saturdays never were that great w/ attendance).

If you're watching a MAC game on a Tuesday night in November & see a sparse crowd, that's not what it's like in September to mid October, at least at the above programs.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's not fair to pick on our attendance because I think our good crowds make up for our bad crowds.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2021 10:39 AM by Bronco'14.)
03-02-2021 10:34 AM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(03-02-2021 10:27 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(03-02-2021 08:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-02-2021 02:23 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(03-01-2021 05:17 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The more-consistent MAC schools do fine in attendance.

My observation its been more situational.

Best all time crowd for a MAC conference game came in 2016 during the MACC between WMU and Ohio which drew 45,616. WMU was having a great season and had the alums in metro Detroit to pull off that support.

MAC teams draw well for important campus dates like homecoming and parent's weekend. Nice weather will bring out more fans. They'll draw well for P5 games or cross town rivals.

Whenever a MAC team is undefeated they'll sell out when a big season is on the line. Even at a place like Ball State which is normally a weak draw they sold out in 2008 when in the Top 25 with an undefeated season.

G5 which are consistent 25,000+ tend to be in remote mid sized cities where its too far to travel and support another school or NFL team. AAC has bucked that trend by throwing a lot of money behind its programs resulting in high profile coaches, consistent Top 25 presence, appearance of a bigger football conference ect.

Most G5 simply do not have the fan base to support their football programs at FBS level. They are running on fumes, or $20 million annual transfers from students while drawing fewer than 20k fans in the stands and resorting to accounting gymnastics to meet NCAA requirements. MAC seems particularly prone to this.

MAC fans as I said tend to key in on particular games. They are more selective with their support than attending each and every game.

When something is on the line they put up fan numbers which are more in line with other G5 conferences. A lot of the season ticket base at MAC schools comes from alumni that are 50 miles or more away so they aren't always right there for the games.

One thing this board does not talk about is the impact on program development by making the move from FCS to FBS. The MAC has participated in FBS for 40 seasons now and had the time to fundraise for facilities. Due to this its now on a different level than MVC or CAA football. Huge gap from those conferences across the board.

It shows on the MAC's record against FCS too which is above 90%. Ohio is 15-0 against FCS under Frank Solich, including Top 25 FCS programs on the slate. Its not like MAC programs are only winning 60% against FCS.

Attendance is not the only metric and the MAC as I've said with the right situations will put up good numbers.

good post
03-02-2021 10:38 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(03-02-2021 10:27 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(03-02-2021 08:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-02-2021 02:23 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(03-01-2021 05:17 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The more-consistent MAC schools do fine in attendance.

My observation its been more situational.

Best all time crowd for a MAC conference game came in 2016 during the MACC between WMU and Ohio which drew 45,616. WMU was having a great season and had the alums in metro Detroit to pull off that support.

MAC teams draw well for important campus dates like homecoming and parent's weekend. Nice weather will bring out more fans. They'll draw well for P5 games or cross town rivals.

Whenever a MAC team is undefeated they'll sell out when a big season is on the line. Even at a place like Ball State which is normally a weak draw they sold out in 2008 when in the Top 25 with an undefeated season.

G5 which are consistent 25,000+ tend to be in remote mid sized cities where its too far to travel and support another school or NFL team. AAC has bucked that trend by throwing a lot of money behind its programs resulting in high profile coaches, consistent Top 25 presence, appearance of a bigger football conference ect.

Most G5 simply do not have the fan base to support their football programs at FBS level. They are running on fumes, or $20 million annual transfers from students while drawing fewer than 20k fans in the stands and resorting to accounting gymnastics to meet NCAA requirements. MAC seems particularly prone to this.

MAC fans as I said tend to key in on particular games. They are more selective with their support than attending each and every game.

When something is on the line they put up fan numbers which are more in line with other G5 conferences. A lot of the season ticket base at MAC schools comes from alumni that are 50 miles or more away so they aren't always right there for the games.

One thing this board does not talk about is the impact on program development by making the move from FCS to FBS. The MAC has participated in FBS for 40 seasons now and had the time to fundraise for facilities. Due to this its now on a different level than MVC or CAA football. Huge gap from those conferences across the board.

It shows on the MAC's record against FCS too which is above 90%. Ohio is 15-0 against FCS under Frank Solich, including Top 25 FCS programs on the slate. Its not like MAC programs are only winning 60% against FCS.

Attendance is not the only metric and the MAC as I've said with the right situations will put up good numbers.

I think the reason MAC attendance is focused on is because MAC attendance tends to be lowest in FBS. IIRC, in 2019 MAC attendance was 15,500. That's barely above the NCAA school level requirement for D1, and with all the fudging going on, it's a sure thing that average MAC actual attendance was well below the NCAA requirement.

It's just not FBS-level attendance, IMO. MAC schools (as a conference) are in an area of the country with a very football-rich heritage, but most of the fan bases just do not care. It is just not an FBS-level conference, IMO, though certain schools within the MAC that are above the conference average might have FBS-level profiles.
03-02-2021 11:13 AM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
The conference overall is hurt by cold weather that rolls around as early as October. Much as I get on our fanbases, I can't blame Average Joe who's not a diehard for not wanting to watch a .500 or so team in the cold or rain. The cold generally isn't something CUSA & the SunBelt have to deal w/.

It's not uncommon for people to still be following the program or watching the game on TV, they're just not in attendance. I noticed that quite a bit as a student.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2021 11:29 AM by Bronco'14.)
03-02-2021 11:24 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(03-02-2021 11:24 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The conference overall is hurt by cold weather that rolls around as early as October. Much as I get on our fanbases, I can't blame Average Joe who's not a diehard for not wanting to watch a .500 or so team in the cold or rain. The cold generally isn't something CUSA & the SunBelt have to deal w/.

It's not uncommon for people to still be following the program or watching the game on TV, they're just not in attendance. I noticed that quite a bit as a student.

That makes sense. But IMO it adds up to a non-FBS football conference. The fan support just is not there.
03-02-2021 11:34 AM
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Post: #88
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(03-02-2021 10:34 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  
(03-02-2021 02:23 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(03-01-2021 05:17 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The more-consistent MAC schools do fine in attendance.

My observation its been more situational.

Best all time crowd for a MAC conference game came in 2016 during the MACC between WMU and Ohio which drew 45,616. WMU was having a great season and had the alums in metro Detroit to pull off that support.

MAC teams draw well for important campus dates like homecoming and parent's weekend. Nice weather will bring out more fans. They'll draw well for P5 games or cross town rivals.


Whenever a MAC team is undefeated they'll sell out when a big season is on the line. Even at a place like Ball State which is normally a weak draw they sold out in 2008 when in the Top 25 with an undefeated season.

G5 which are consistent 25,000+ tend to be in remote mid sized cities where its too far to travel and support another school or NFL team. AAC has bucked that trend by throwing a lot of money behind its programs resulting in high profile coaches, consistent Top 25 presence, appearance of a bigger football conference ect.
Definitely true.

Is it a warm weather game? Is the team having a decent-to-good season? Then you can count on a great crowd at CMU/WMU/Toledo/Miami/Ohio.

Attendance usually doesn't start declining until the later weeks of the season as the 'decent' season becomes 'bad' as the teams drop out of the division race, and the weather gets colder (and more recently the shift to weeknight games, although November games on Saturdays never were that great w/ attendance).

If you're watching a MAC game on a Tuesday night in November & see a sparse crowd, that's not what it's like in September to mid October, at least at the above programs.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's not fair to pick on our attendance because I think our good crowds make up for our bad crowds.

I was very surprised when we played Ohio in 2016 and they were sold out. I'm sad we didn't get to host them this past year as we were scheduled to.
03-02-2021 01:54 PM
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