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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-22-2021 07:32 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  The problem with the G5 is they are too obsessed with the Jones's (P5) and how green their grass is. News flash!! You live on the other side of the tracks, and except for a handful of programs (AAC,MWC, and a couple others) nothing is going to change that.

Focus on building fan support rather than the TV contract that isn't ever going to come. Networks don't care about your media market, because your media market mostly doesn't watch you!

You are not getting a shot at the P5 championship, so stop playing meaningless bowl games that nobody really cares about. These bowl games kill the excitement of the regular season because the end result is a given - pretty much however the team performs, even below 500 in some cases, they will typically be playing in some afterthought bowl.

MAC - fans in the stadium are more important than like 500k from your media deal. Fill the stadium and you will make that money back from ticket sales and donations, and alumns will be better connected to the University. Stop playing weekday games. Seriously...

The solution is to stop looking outward and instead look inward. Build excitement around a true post season playoff format, similar tot he FCS. With buy-in, a G5 playoff would be more exciting and draw more eyeballs and money to the G5 schools than what they are currently getting. Conference races would be more exciting with playoff spots on the line for 3rd/4th place teams, and 1st/2nd place bids would be looking for better seeds, since playoff games are ON CAMPUS. The regular season means something again for more teams for a longer period of time. And a deep playoff run would give teams multiple spotlight games, rather than just the one bowl game (more exposure).

Bring the top 10% of FCS teams on board as well.

They system works for schools in the FCS that actually have a fan base, and this is why teams in the MVFC average more ricket revenue and donations than the MAC, and they are about equal with the Sun Belt and CUSA here as well, despite being fcs.

The National landscape for lower end G5 schools would be a hell of a lot more interesting with a full post season playoff and FCS Flagship schools, and some of the other top 10% of the CAA/Big Sky/CAA/ASUN schools added to the mix.

Doing this would also hurt the P5, IMO - consider why they want to keep March Madness as-is. Because the story lines with single elimination playoffs, a larger playoff field, and cinderella story's.

You guys can rip this if you want, but this is what the bottom 60%+ of the G5 needs to do. Focus on yourselves and create a G5 brand and synergy (make the whole better the the sum of its parts). P5 non conf games would still be perfectly fine.
No. That is not how any of this works. This is typical fcs thinking.
02-22-2021 08:04 PM
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Post: #42
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-22-2021 03:00 PM)jaybird44 Wrote:  Very interesting responses. I believe if low g5 would ever have hope of making aac or mountain west level(remember you must get there first),they must do several things, I believe, to achieve this dream. I believe first and foremost you must be exciting and relevant. Everyone loves a winner,but be worth watching. Your conferences needs to have rivalries and traditions. I find it hard to have rivals thousands of miles away. You must have top notch facilities and to get that you have to hit up alumni,donors,and corporations. It is essential to have a structure of people who are not afraid to sell their university. Get your name out there. Do not be afraid to put your merchandise out there. Use local media,use them hard. My dad said you can't make money without spending money. Schedule better. There are ways to get p5s to your place. Before the pandemic, ODU had wake forest and uva coming in and has had va. Tech here and scheduled for several more times. If you get your facilities straight and have this all happen, you will see better and better players and coaches and more pub. The conferences MUST have like minded universities for this to work. You must put yourself into the position that you own this side of the street and have mortgages on the other side. It can be done. If you have half empty or less stadiums, then don't fool yourself into thinking you are going higher up.

The way to do it is to corner the market so the new conference XYZ is decidedly bigger/better than the leftovers.

If you cherry picked 6 programs from the MAC/CUSA/SBC and formed an 18 team conference out of it they would be decidedly better than leftover, reloaded MAC/CUSA/SBC leagues of 8-10. The conference would have 8-9 bowl games and multiple ones against the MWC/AAC.

This is what CUSA 3.0 was trying to do by expanding to 14 but the TV partners soured on it since it lacked the 2.0 names like Memphis, Houston and UCF they were paying for. They also made an early decision to go it alone without ESPN which turned out to be a mistake.

At the moment some of the individual conferences are quite happy. SBC has a lean 10 FB members, 5 bowls in its footprint. MAC has tight footprint and has the MWC over the barrel because the MWC needs them for bowl tie-ins.

As to the AAC right now they're the clear 6th best football conference but the question there is are they going to last? Will the newer schools in CUSA and SBC catch up to them in facilities and recruiting eventually?

At least yet there is no such thing as true "lower tier G5". IF the WAC and Atlantic Sun moved to FBS you would start to see more of that, which is what the smaller divisions in the original post point to.
02-22-2021 09:16 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
One of the better ideas I've heard is if ODU and Charlotte went independent, joined the A10.

-Strengthened the G5 indy ranks w/6 on the East Coast (UConn, Army, UMass, ODU, Liberty, Charlotte). That would be good for that group for scheduling.

-Indy schools available to fill bowl games. Provides more options than just placing two schools from G5 conferences.

-CUSA down to 12, with UAB moving to the east division. Better geography for the conference.

-Independence making a case for more CFP access. At the moment Independents need to be rated in the Top 4 to have a guaranteed berth. With more indy schools it would support a second access bowl or at least a guarantee rule for anyone ranked in the Top 12 in an expanded CFP.
02-22-2021 09:46 PM
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nodak651 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-22-2021 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:32 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  The solution is to stop looking outward and instead look inward. Build excitement around a true post season playoff format, similar to the FCS. With buy-in, a G5 playoff would be more exciting and draw more eyeballs and money to the G5 schools than what they are currently getting.

Somehow, that sounds exactly like what most of the schools in CUSA and the Sun Belt recently decided they didn't want. If a tournament like that was so lucrative, why did they all give it up to move to the FBS where they could play in a bowl game?

Because they are chasing the status and prestige of being called an FBS school, and they like to pretend they are competing with the P5 for the same championship even though any participation is really a pipe dream. It's so easy for any decent school in the south to move to FBS that there isn't really a reason not to (other than added expenses and debt that exceed any gain in revenue) If I was in charge I would move my school up too.. But what I'm saying is that the G5 can be done better.

You imply that I am saying the FCS tournament is lucrative? I know it isn't. The FCS has its own challenges that have nothing to do with the merit of my proposal, since the issue at the FCS level is just that there are too many small schools with small budgets and small fan bases. That said, there is a reason that FCS fans are so excited to bring up the playoffs - it's just way more fun and they know it's a better format.

With larger fanbases and better exposure at the G5 level, the tournament would have 10x the potential. As a fan of a MAC/CUSA/SunBelt school, wouldn't you want to watch teams in your conference want to knock others out of the playoffs? BS this school vs that school arguments can actually get settled on the field. Compare that with a bowl game, where you may end up playing a school barely above 500 because you don't have the right bowl tie in or because schools refuse to play you. Wtf is that..
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 10:39 PM by nodak651.)
02-22-2021 10:37 PM
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nodak651 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-22-2021 07:58 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:32 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  The problem with the G5 is they are too obsessed with the Jones's (P5) and how green their grass is. News flash!! You live on the other side of the tracks, and except for a handful of programs (AAC,MWC, and a couple others) nothing is going to change that.

Focus on building fan support rather than the TV contract that isn't ever going to come. Networks don't care about your media market, because your media market mostly doesn't watch you!

You are not getting a shot at the P5 championship, so stop playing meaningless bowl games that nobody really cares about. These bowl games kill the excitement of the regular season because the end result is a given - pretty much however the team performs, even below 500 in some cases, they will typically be playing in some afterthought bowl.

MAC - fans in the stadium are more important than like 500k from your media deal. Fill the stadium and you will make that money back from ticket sales and donations, and alumns will be better connected to the University. Stop playing weekday games. Seriously...

The solution is to stop looking outward and instead look inward. Build excitement around a true post season playoff format, similar tot he FCS. With buy-in, a G5 playoff would be more exciting and draw more eyeballs and money to the G5 schools than what they are currently getting. Conference races would be more exciting with playoff spots on the line for 3rd/4th place teams, and 1st/2nd place bids would be looking for better seeds, since playoff games are ON CAMPUS. The regular season means something again for more teams for a longer period of time. And a deep playoff run would give teams multiple spotlight games, rather than just the one bowl game (more exposure).

Bring the top 10% of FCS teams on board as well.

They system works for schools in the FCS that actually have a fan base, and this is why teams in the MVFC average more ricket revenue and donations than the MAC, and they are about equal with the Sun Belt and CUSA here as well, despite being fcs.

The National landscape for lower end G5 schools would be a hell of a lot more interesting with a full post season playoff and FCS Flagship schools, and some of the other top 10% of the CAA/Big Sky/CAA/ASUN schools added to the mix.

Doing this would also hurt the P5, IMO - consider why they want to keep March Madness as-is. Because the story lines with single elimination playoffs, a larger playoff field, and cinderella story's.

You guys can rip this if you want, but this is what the bottom 60%+ of the G5 needs to do. Focus on yourselves and create a G5 brand and synergy (make the whole better the the sum of its parts). P5 non conf games would still be perfectly fine.

How's that working for the FCS? Whats the attendance look like in the MVFC? Obviously NDSU has a great fanbase and attendance but I've never really heard anything about the others.

If G5 schools wanted part of a playoff the none of the move ups would have moved up. FCS fans always tout the playoffs as this huge thing. Im sure its very entertaining, and I know there's some quality football, but most people dont even know it takes place. Honestly I wish it were a bigger deal.

How's it working for FCS? My post was about G5 and a small fraction of FCS schools playing with them. That plan cant exactly be applied to the FCS as a whole... I will say the FCS has an entertaining post season for what it has to work with, which isn't much.

Your question about attendance in the MVFC - do you want the actual butts in seats or the fudged numbers reported to the NCAA?

Avg Ticket Revenue by Conf 2018
MAC 1.206 million
CUSA 2.082 M
Sunbelt 1.339 M
MVFC 2.093 M

The schools that move up don't move up because they like the bowl system... there are plenty of other reasons that obviously make it worth while, but the current G5 post season just sucks.
02-22-2021 11:15 PM
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Post: #46
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-22-2021 10:37 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:32 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  The solution is to stop looking outward and instead look inward. Build excitement around a true post season playoff format, similar to the FCS. With buy-in, a G5 playoff would be more exciting and draw more eyeballs and money to the G5 schools than what they are currently getting.

Somehow, that sounds exactly like what most of the schools in CUSA and the Sun Belt recently decided they didn't want. If a tournament like that was so lucrative, why did they all give it up to move to the FBS where they could play in a bowl game?

Because they are chasing the status and prestige of being called an FBS school, and they like to pretend they are competing with the P5 for the same championship even though any participation is really a pipe dream. It's so easy for any decent school in the south to move to FBS that there isn't really a reason not to (other than added expenses and debt that exceed any gain in revenue) If I was in charge I would move my school up too.. But what I'm saying is that the G5 can be done better.

You imply that I am saying the FCS tournament is lucrative? I know it isn't. The FCS has its own challenges that have nothing to do with the merit of my proposal, since the issue at the FCS level is just that there are too many small schools with small budgets and small fan bases. That said, there is a reason that FCS fans are so excited to bring up the playoffs - it's just way more fun and they know it's a better format.

With larger fanbases and better exposure at the G5 level, the tournament would have 10x the potential. As a fan of a MAC/CUSA/SunBelt school, wouldn't you want to watch teams in your conference want to knock others out of the playoffs? BS this school vs that school arguments can actually get settled on the field. Compare that with a bowl game, where you may end up playing a school barely above 500 because you don't have the right bowl tie in or because schools refuse to play you. Wtf is that..

The assumption you're making is that it won't get better for the G5.

As a MAC fan I can remember the days of 1 bowl for the champion only. No hope ever of making a NYD game.

G5 TV deals are off the charts from 10 years ago. MAC got an 8 fold increase in TV money from its individual deal and 20 fold increase from the CFP. MAC made $32 million in money from ESPN the year WMU made the Cotton Bowl.
02-22-2021 11:18 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-22-2021 11:18 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:37 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:32 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  The solution is to stop looking outward and instead look inward. Build excitement around a true post season playoff format, similar to the FCS. With buy-in, a G5 playoff would be more exciting and draw more eyeballs and money to the G5 schools than what they are currently getting.

Somehow, that sounds exactly like what most of the schools in CUSA and the Sun Belt recently decided they didn't want. If a tournament like that was so lucrative, why did they all give it up to move to the FBS where they could play in a bowl game?

Because they are chasing the status and prestige of being called an FBS school, and they like to pretend they are competing with the P5 for the same championship even though any participation is really a pipe dream. It's so easy for any decent school in the south to move to FBS that there isn't really a reason not to (other than added expenses and debt that exceed any gain in revenue) If I was in charge I would move my school up too.. But what I'm saying is that the G5 can be done better.

You imply that I am saying the FCS tournament is lucrative? I know it isn't. The FCS has its own challenges that have nothing to do with the merit of my proposal, since the issue at the FCS level is just that there are too many small schools with small budgets and small fan bases. That said, there is a reason that FCS fans are so excited to bring up the playoffs - it's just way more fun and they know it's a better format.

With larger fanbases and better exposure at the G5 level, the tournament would have 10x the potential. As a fan of a MAC/CUSA/SunBelt school, wouldn't you want to watch teams in your conference want to knock others out of the playoffs? BS this school vs that school arguments can actually get settled on the field. Compare that with a bowl game, where you may end up playing a school barely above 500 because you don't have the right bowl tie in or because schools refuse to play you. Wtf is that..

The assumption you're making is that it won't get better for the G5.

As a MAC fan I can remember the days of 1 bowl for the champion only. No hope ever of making a NYD game.

G5 TV deals are off the charts from 10 years ago. MAC got an 8 fold increase in TV money from its individual deal and 20 fold increase from the CFP. MAC made $32 million in money from ESPN the year WMU made the Cotton Bowl.

I hear you. I guess my question then is, what's the goal? This is a serious question that I have for lower G5 schools, because there is clearly a disconnect between what seems to be the consensus opinion and my thinking here.. Obviously more money is nice, but I wouldn't think the purpose of operating the athletic department is just to maximize revenue, is it? To what end?
02-23-2021 12:10 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-23-2021 12:10 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 11:18 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:37 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:32 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  The solution is to stop looking outward and instead look inward. Build excitement around a true post season playoff format, similar to the FCS. With buy-in, a G5 playoff would be more exciting and draw more eyeballs and money to the G5 schools than what they are currently getting.

Somehow, that sounds exactly like what most of the schools in CUSA and the Sun Belt recently decided they didn't want. If a tournament like that was so lucrative, why did they all give it up to move to the FBS where they could play in a bowl game?

Because they are chasing the status and prestige of being called an FBS school, and they like to pretend they are competing with the P5 for the same championship even though any participation is really a pipe dream. It's so easy for any decent school in the south to move to FBS that there isn't really a reason not to (other than added expenses and debt that exceed any gain in revenue) If I was in charge I would move my school up too.. But what I'm saying is that the G5 can be done better.

You imply that I am saying the FCS tournament is lucrative? I know it isn't. The FCS has its own challenges that have nothing to do with the merit of my proposal, since the issue at the FCS level is just that there are too many small schools with small budgets and small fan bases. That said, there is a reason that FCS fans are so excited to bring up the playoffs - it's just way more fun and they know it's a better format.

With larger fanbases and better exposure at the G5 level, the tournament would have 10x the potential. As a fan of a MAC/CUSA/SunBelt school, wouldn't you want to watch teams in your conference want to knock others out of the playoffs? BS this school vs that school arguments can actually get settled on the field. Compare that with a bowl game, where you may end up playing a school barely above 500 because you don't have the right bowl tie in or because schools refuse to play you. Wtf is that..

The assumption you're making is that it won't get better for the G5.

As a MAC fan I can remember the days of 1 bowl for the champion only. No hope ever of making a NYD game.

G5 TV deals are off the charts from 10 years ago. MAC got an 8 fold increase in TV money from its individual deal and 20 fold increase from the CFP. MAC made $32 million in money from ESPN the year WMU made the Cotton Bowl.

I hear you. I guess my question then is, what's the goal? This is a serious question that I have for lower G5 schools, because there is clearly a disconnect between what seems to be the consensus opinion and my thinking here.. Obviously more money is nice, but I wouldn't think the purpose of operating the athletic department is just to maximize revenue, is it? To what end?

First there is no such thing as a lower G5 school. Coastal Carolina as an example a recent move up for all we know could end up growing its program into the next Boise State. G5 is a wide range from a P5 level program to something that belongs in FCS. AAC is about 50/50 P5 level/G5 level.

Legally there is nothing preventing Coastal Carolina from appearing in the playoff. The question is how far can they go with recruiting in a second tier conference. There was a while competing a non-AQ conference made for a lower recruiting ceiling, creating a chicken or the egg factor.

Today G5's have a ladder to a NYD bowl and plenty of bowl games. G5 bowl games help build a program by providing additional practices and also a 1 million viewer appearance on ESPN. There is nothing of course limiting how much a school can spend on football either.

G5 programs then can go as far as their recruiting base and resources will take them. Recruiting base is why all those southern schools felt confident about moving up to FBS. Resources start to win and donors get on board. No doubt that some schools don't have fat cat donors out there to be had.

MAC I can tell you concentrates its money on facilities over backing up brinks trucks for a coaching staff. Some have P5 level weight rooms and locker rooms. The idea is that it might not be the current staff but the one they bring in after that to take the program to a NYD game.

AAC spends big to impress with the idea of P5 invite within the next 5 years. Spend like there is no tomorrow because there may not be one. If not they become part of the left behind AAC which will eventually be no better than the MWC, a lackluster G5 conference.

Its the short game vs. the long game. Long game says some AAC schools will go P5 and then it will be a more even playing field for access bowls for the MAC.
02-23-2021 08:19 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-22-2021 11:18 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:37 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:32 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  The solution is to stop looking outward and instead look inward. Build excitement around a true post season playoff format, similar to the FCS. With buy-in, a G5 playoff would be more exciting and draw more eyeballs and money to the G5 schools than what they are currently getting.

Somehow, that sounds exactly like what most of the schools in CUSA and the Sun Belt recently decided they didn't want. If a tournament like that was so lucrative, why did they all give it up to move to the FBS where they could play in a bowl game?

Because they are chasing the status and prestige of being called an FBS school, and they like to pretend they are competing with the P5 for the same championship even though any participation is really a pipe dream. It's so easy for any decent school in the south to move to FBS that there isn't really a reason not to (other than added expenses and debt that exceed any gain in revenue) If I was in charge I would move my school up too.. But what I'm saying is that the G5 can be done better.

You imply that I am saying the FCS tournament is lucrative? I know it isn't. The FCS has its own challenges that have nothing to do with the merit of my proposal, since the issue at the FCS level is just that there are too many small schools with small budgets and small fan bases. That said, there is a reason that FCS fans are so excited to bring up the playoffs - it's just way more fun and they know it's a better format.

With larger fanbases and better exposure at the G5 level, the tournament would have 10x the potential. As a fan of a MAC/CUSA/SunBelt school, wouldn't you want to watch teams in your conference want to knock others out of the playoffs? BS this school vs that school arguments can actually get settled on the field. Compare that with a bowl game, where you may end up playing a school barely above 500 because you don't have the right bowl tie in or because schools refuse to play you. Wtf is that..

The assumption you're making is that it won't get better for the G5.

As a MAC fan I can remember the days of 1 bowl for the champion only. No hope ever of making a NYD game.

G5 TV deals are off the charts from 10 years ago. MAC got an 8 fold increase in TV money from its individual deal and 20 fold increase from the CFP. MAC made $32 million in money from ESPN the year WMU made the Cotton Bowl.

I would say that an assumption that it won't get significantly better for the G5 is a pretty rational one. The MAC got a raise in TV money by sacrificing ticket revenue. Hard to say whether their total revenue increased much. And, financially, those additional bowl games don't exactly bring in the big bucks after you deduct the expenses of the participating teams.

If more net revenue from football is the goal there's going to be a lot of disappointment among G5 schools. But I don't think that's the goal. Probably more exposure is a goal, but I doubt a playoff would achieve that as well as pre-Christmas bowl games (which isn't saying much).
02-23-2021 08:49 AM
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Post: #50
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-23-2021 08:19 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-23-2021 12:10 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 11:18 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:37 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  Somehow, that sounds exactly like what most of the schools in CUSA and the Sun Belt recently decided they didn't want. If a tournament like that was so lucrative, why did they all give it up to move to the FBS where they could play in a bowl game?

Because they are chasing the status and prestige of being called an FBS school, and they like to pretend they are competing with the P5 for the same championship even though any participation is really a pipe dream. It's so easy for any decent school in the south to move to FBS that there isn't really a reason not to (other than added expenses and debt that exceed any gain in revenue) If I was in charge I would move my school up too.. But what I'm saying is that the G5 can be done better.

You imply that I am saying the FCS tournament is lucrative? I know it isn't. The FCS has its own challenges that have nothing to do with the merit of my proposal, since the issue at the FCS level is just that there are too many small schools with small budgets and small fan bases. That said, there is a reason that FCS fans are so excited to bring up the playoffs - it's just way more fun and they know it's a better format.

With larger fanbases and better exposure at the G5 level, the tournament would have 10x the potential. As a fan of a MAC/CUSA/SunBelt school, wouldn't you want to watch teams in your conference want to knock others out of the playoffs? BS this school vs that school arguments can actually get settled on the field. Compare that with a bowl game, where you may end up playing a school barely above 500 because you don't have the right bowl tie in or because schools refuse to play you. Wtf is that..

The assumption you're making is that it won't get better for the G5.

As a MAC fan I can remember the days of 1 bowl for the champion only. No hope ever of making a NYD game.

G5 TV deals are off the charts from 10 years ago. MAC got an 8 fold increase in TV money from its individual deal and 20 fold increase from the CFP. MAC made $32 million in money from ESPN the year WMU made the Cotton Bowl.

I hear you. I guess my question then is, what's the goal? This is a serious question that I have for lower G5 schools, because there is clearly a disconnect between what seems to be the consensus opinion and my thinking here.. Obviously more money is nice, but I wouldn't think the purpose of operating the athletic department is just to maximize revenue, is it? To what end?

First there is no such thing as a lower G5 school. Coastal Carolina as an example a recent move up for all we know could end up growing its program into the next Boise State. G5 is a wide range from a P5 level program to something that belongs in FCS. AAC is about 50/50 P5 level/G5 level.

Legally there is nothing preventing Coastal Carolina from appearing in the playoff. The question is how far can they go with recruiting in a second tier conference. There was a while competing a non-AQ conference made for a lower recruiting ceiling, creating a chicken or the egg factor.

Today G5's have a ladder to a NYD bowl and plenty of bowl games. G5 bowl games help build a program by providing additional practices and also a 1 million viewer appearance on ESPN. There is nothing of course limiting how much a school can spend on football either.

G5 programs then can go as far as their recruiting base and resources will take them. Recruiting base is why all those southern schools felt confident about moving up to FBS. Resources start to win and donors get on board. No doubt that some schools don't have fat cat donors out there to be had.

MAC I can tell you concentrates its money on facilities over backing up brinks trucks for a coaching staff. Some have P5 level weight rooms and locker rooms. The idea is that it might not be the current staff but the one they bring in after that to take the program to a NYD game.

AAC spends big to impress with the idea of P5 invite within the next 5 years. Spend like there is no tomorrow because there may not be one. If not they become part of the left behind AAC which will eventually be no better than the MWC, a lackluster G5 conference.

Its the short game vs. the long game. Long game says some AAC schools will go P5 and then it will be a more even playing field for access bowls for the MAC.

I agree with the presumption that some AAC schools will eventually leave. The Houston’s, Cincy/Memphis and the UCF’s of the world want to eventually be seated at the big boy table... Temple back to the MAC with Navy/Army, and probably SMU and Tulsa to the MW, then have Tulane/USF to the Sunbelt, with ECU back in CUSA...
It could possibly shake down that way...
02-23-2021 09:23 AM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-23-2021 12:10 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 11:18 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:37 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:32 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  The solution is to stop looking outward and instead look inward. Build excitement around a true post season playoff format, similar to the FCS. With buy-in, a G5 playoff would be more exciting and draw more eyeballs and money to the G5 schools than what they are currently getting.

Somehow, that sounds exactly like what most of the schools in CUSA and the Sun Belt recently decided they didn't want. If a tournament like that was so lucrative, why did they all give it up to move to the FBS where they could play in a bowl game?

Because they are chasing the status and prestige of being called an FBS school, and they like to pretend they are competing with the P5 for the same championship even though any participation is really a pipe dream. It's so easy for any decent school in the south to move to FBS that there isn't really a reason not to (other than added expenses and debt that exceed any gain in revenue) If I was in charge I would move my school up too.. But what I'm saying is that the G5 can be done better.

You imply that I am saying the FCS tournament is lucrative? I know it isn't. The FCS has its own challenges that have nothing to do with the merit of my proposal, since the issue at the FCS level is just that there are too many small schools with small budgets and small fan bases. That said, there is a reason that FCS fans are so excited to bring up the playoffs - it's just way more fun and they know it's a better format.

With larger fanbases and better exposure at the G5 level, the tournament would have 10x the potential. As a fan of a MAC/CUSA/SunBelt school, wouldn't you want to watch teams in your conference want to knock others out of the playoffs? BS this school vs that school arguments can actually get settled on the field. Compare that with a bowl game, where you may end up playing a school barely above 500 because you don't have the right bowl tie in or because schools refuse to play you. Wtf is that..

The assumption you're making is that it won't get better for the G5.

As a MAC fan I can remember the days of 1 bowl for the champion only. No hope ever of making a NYD game.

G5 TV deals are off the charts from 10 years ago. MAC got an 8 fold increase in TV money from its individual deal and 20 fold increase from the CFP. MAC made $32 million in money from ESPN the year WMU made the Cotton Bowl.

I hear you. I guess my question then is, what's the goal? This is a serious question that I have for lower G5 schools, because there is clearly a disconnect between what seems to be the consensus opinion and my thinking here.. Obviously more money is nice, but I wouldn't think the purpose of operating the athletic department is just to maximize revenue, is it? To what end?

I think it's pretty simple. The goal is simply increased exposure and as a result an increase in peoples perception of the school. If we make more money, cool. Again, if everyone's goal was winning nattys we'd have stayed FCS. Heck even for most P5s a natty is unrealistic. If the G5 started our own playoff we would be relegating ourselves to a new official 2nd level, which would turn off any potential casual fans, and we would probably lose that exposure we seek, and in TXST's case be right back where we were a decade ago.
02-23-2021 10:18 AM
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BKTopper Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-22-2021 11:18 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:37 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:32 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  The solution is to stop looking outward and instead look inward. Build excitement around a true post season playoff format, similar to the FCS. With buy-in, a G5 playoff would be more exciting and draw more eyeballs and money to the G5 schools than what they are currently getting.

Somehow, that sounds exactly like what most of the schools in CUSA and the Sun Belt recently decided they didn't want. If a tournament like that was so lucrative, why did they all give it up to move to the FBS where they could play in a bowl game?

Because they are chasing the status and prestige of being called an FBS school, and they like to pretend they are competing with the P5 for the same championship even though any participation is really a pipe dream. It's so easy for any decent school in the south to move to FBS that there isn't really a reason not to (other than added expenses and debt that exceed any gain in revenue) If I was in charge I would move my school up too.. But what I'm saying is that the G5 can be done better.

You imply that I am saying the FCS tournament is lucrative? I know it isn't. The FCS has its own challenges that have nothing to do with the merit of my proposal, since the issue at the FCS level is just that there are too many small schools with small budgets and small fan bases. That said, there is a reason that FCS fans are so excited to bring up the playoffs - it's just way more fun and they know it's a better format.

With larger fanbases and better exposure at the G5 level, the tournament would have 10x the potential. As a fan of a MAC/CUSA/SunBelt school, wouldn't you want to watch teams in your conference want to knock others out of the playoffs? BS this school vs that school arguments can actually get settled on the field. Compare that with a bowl game, where you may end up playing a school barely above 500 because you don't have the right bowl tie in or because schools refuse to play you. Wtf is that..

The assumption you're making is that it won't get better for the G5.

As a MAC fan I can remember the days of 1 bowl for the champion only. No hope ever of making a NYD game.

G5 TV deals are off the charts from 10 years ago. MAC got an 8 fold increase in TV money from its individual deal and 20 fold increase from the CFP. MAC made $32 million in money from ESPN the year WMU made the Cotton Bowl.

Yeah but C-USA's last media deal: a $20 Olive Garden gift card and a free hat.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2021 10:42 AM by BKTopper.)
02-23-2021 10:40 AM
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utpotts Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-23-2021 10:40 AM)BKTopper Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 11:18 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:37 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:32 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  The solution is to stop looking outward and instead look inward. Build excitement around a true post season playoff format, similar to the FCS. With buy-in, a G5 playoff would be more exciting and draw more eyeballs and money to the G5 schools than what they are currently getting.

Somehow, that sounds exactly like what most of the schools in CUSA and the Sun Belt recently decided they didn't want. If a tournament like that was so lucrative, why did they all give it up to move to the FBS where they could play in a bowl game?

Because they are chasing the status and prestige of being called an FBS school, and they like to pretend they are competing with the P5 for the same championship even though any participation is really a pipe dream. It's so easy for any decent school in the south to move to FBS that there isn't really a reason not to (other than added expenses and debt that exceed any gain in revenue) If I was in charge I would move my school up too.. But what I'm saying is that the G5 can be done better.

You imply that I am saying the FCS tournament is lucrative? I know it isn't. The FCS has its own challenges that have nothing to do with the merit of my proposal, since the issue at the FCS level is just that there are too many small schools with small budgets and small fan bases. That said, there is a reason that FCS fans are so excited to bring up the playoffs - it's just way more fun and they know it's a better format.

With larger fanbases and better exposure at the G5 level, the tournament would have 10x the potential. As a fan of a MAC/CUSA/SunBelt school, wouldn't you want to watch teams in your conference want to knock others out of the playoffs? BS this school vs that school arguments can actually get settled on the field. Compare that with a bowl game, where you may end up playing a school barely above 500 because you don't have the right bowl tie in or because schools refuse to play you. Wtf is that..

The assumption you're making is that it won't get better for the G5.

As a MAC fan I can remember the days of 1 bowl for the champion only. No hope ever of making a NYD game.

G5 TV deals are off the charts from 10 years ago. MAC got an 8 fold increase in TV money from its individual deal and 20 fold increase from the CFP. MAC made $32 million in money from ESPN the year WMU made the Cotton Bowl.

Yeah but C-USA's last media deal: a $20 Olive Garden gift card a free hat.

Mmmmmm... breadsticks.
02-23-2021 10:42 AM
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BKTopper Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-23-2021 10:42 AM)utpotts Wrote:  
(02-23-2021 10:40 AM)BKTopper Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 11:18 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:37 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  Somehow, that sounds exactly like what most of the schools in CUSA and the Sun Belt recently decided they didn't want. If a tournament like that was so lucrative, why did they all give it up to move to the FBS where they could play in a bowl game?

Because they are chasing the status and prestige of being called an FBS school, and they like to pretend they are competing with the P5 for the same championship even though any participation is really a pipe dream. It's so easy for any decent school in the south to move to FBS that there isn't really a reason not to (other than added expenses and debt that exceed any gain in revenue) If I was in charge I would move my school up too.. But what I'm saying is that the G5 can be done better.

You imply that I am saying the FCS tournament is lucrative? I know it isn't. The FCS has its own challenges that have nothing to do with the merit of my proposal, since the issue at the FCS level is just that there are too many small schools with small budgets and small fan bases. That said, there is a reason that FCS fans are so excited to bring up the playoffs - it's just way more fun and they know it's a better format.

With larger fanbases and better exposure at the G5 level, the tournament would have 10x the potential. As a fan of a MAC/CUSA/SunBelt school, wouldn't you want to watch teams in your conference want to knock others out of the playoffs? BS this school vs that school arguments can actually get settled on the field. Compare that with a bowl game, where you may end up playing a school barely above 500 because you don't have the right bowl tie in or because schools refuse to play you. Wtf is that..

The assumption you're making is that it won't get better for the G5.

As a MAC fan I can remember the days of 1 bowl for the champion only. No hope ever of making a NYD game.

G5 TV deals are off the charts from 10 years ago. MAC got an 8 fold increase in TV money from its individual deal and 20 fold increase from the CFP. MAC made $32 million in money from ESPN the year WMU made the Cotton Bowl.

Yeah but C-USA's last media deal: a $20 Olive Garden gift card a free hat.

Mmmmmm... breadsticks.

Yeah the 14 schools shared 2 bowls of Italian wedding soup just for those bottomless breadsticks. UTEP got a glass of syrupy moscato.
02-23-2021 10:46 AM
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FMRocket Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-23-2021 10:42 AM)utpotts Wrote:  
(02-23-2021 10:40 AM)BKTopper Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 11:18 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:37 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  Somehow, that sounds exactly like what most of the schools in CUSA and the Sun Belt recently decided they didn't want. If a tournament like that was so lucrative, why did they all give it up to move to the FBS where they could play in a bowl game?

Because they are chasing the status and prestige of being called an FBS school, and they like to pretend they are competing with the P5 for the same championship even though any participation is really a pipe dream. It's so easy for any decent school in the south to move to FBS that there isn't really a reason not to (other than added expenses and debt that exceed any gain in revenue) If I was in charge I would move my school up too.. But what I'm saying is that the G5 can be done better.

You imply that I am saying the FCS tournament is lucrative? I know it isn't. The FCS has its own challenges that have nothing to do with the merit of my proposal, since the issue at the FCS level is just that there are too many small schools with small budgets and small fan bases. That said, there is a reason that FCS fans are so excited to bring up the playoffs - it's just way more fun and they know it's a better format.

With larger fanbases and better exposure at the G5 level, the tournament would have 10x the potential. As a fan of a MAC/CUSA/SunBelt school, wouldn't you want to watch teams in your conference want to knock others out of the playoffs? BS this school vs that school arguments can actually get settled on the field. Compare that with a bowl game, where you may end up playing a school barely above 500 because you don't have the right bowl tie in or because schools refuse to play you. Wtf is that..

The assumption you're making is that it won't get better for the G5.

As a MAC fan I can remember the days of 1 bowl for the champion only. No hope ever of making a NYD game.

G5 TV deals are off the charts from 10 years ago. MAC got an 8 fold increase in TV money from its individual deal and 20 fold increase from the CFP. MAC made $32 million in money from ESPN the year WMU made the Cotton Bowl.

Yeah but C-USA's last media deal: a $20 Olive Garden gift card a free hat.

Mmmmmm... breadsticks.

Yeah, man !!04-cheers
02-23-2021 10:48 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-22-2021 09:46 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  One of the better ideas I've heard is if ODU and Charlotte went independent, joined the A10.

Better idea for whom?

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote except why would the A10 add two flight risks that aren’t really lighting up the basketball world? I have to think Loyola (Chicago) would be higher on the list than those two.
02-23-2021 10:49 AM
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BKTopper Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-22-2021 09:46 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  One of the better ideas I've heard is if ODU and Charlotte went independent, joined the A10.

-Strengthened the G5 indy ranks w/6 on the East Coast (UConn, Army, UMass, ODU, Liberty, Charlotte). That would be good for that group for scheduling.

-Indy schools available to fill bowl games. Provides more options than just placing two schools from G5 conferences.

-CUSA down to 12, with UAB moving to the east division. Better geography for the conference.

-Independence making a case for more CFP access. At the moment Independents need to be rated in the Top 4 to have a guaranteed berth. With more indy schools it would support a second access bowl or at least a guarantee rule for anyone ranked in the Top 12 in an expanded CFP.

If that happens, could 5 more schools just join Charlotte, UMass and ODU as full members and therefore sponsor FBS? :

1.) UMASS
2.) ODU
3.) Charlotte
4.) Marshall
5.) UAB
6.) WKU

And then 2-4 from the following: Buffalo, Liberty, Georgia State, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State.
02-23-2021 11:14 AM
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Post: #58
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-23-2021 10:49 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 09:46 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  One of the better ideas I've heard is if ODU and Charlotte went independent, joined the A10.

Better idea for whom?

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote except why would the A10 add two flight risks that aren’t really lighting up the basketball world? I have to think Loyola (Chicago) would be higher on the list than those two.

I was wondering the same thing.
02-23-2021 11:18 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-23-2021 10:49 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 09:46 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  One of the better ideas I've heard is if ODU and Charlotte went independent, joined the A10.

Better idea for whom?

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote except why would the A10 add two flight risks that aren’t really lighting up the basketball world? I have to think Loyola (Chicago) would be higher on the list than those two.

Better geography for ODU/Charlotte all sports.

Better geography for remaining CUSA members.
02-23-2021 11:33 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Lower g5 revolurion
(02-23-2021 10:46 AM)BKTopper Wrote:  
(02-23-2021 10:42 AM)utpotts Wrote:  
(02-23-2021 10:40 AM)BKTopper Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 11:18 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:37 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  Because they are chasing the status and prestige of being called an FBS school, and they like to pretend they are competing with the P5 for the same championship even though any participation is really a pipe dream. It's so easy for any decent school in the south to move to FBS that there isn't really a reason not to (other than added expenses and debt that exceed any gain in revenue) If I was in charge I would move my school up too.. But what I'm saying is that the G5 can be done better.

You imply that I am saying the FCS tournament is lucrative? I know it isn't. The FCS has its own challenges that have nothing to do with the merit of my proposal, since the issue at the FCS level is just that there are too many small schools with small budgets and small fan bases. That said, there is a reason that FCS fans are so excited to bring up the playoffs - it's just way more fun and they know it's a better format.

With larger fanbases and better exposure at the G5 level, the tournament would have 10x the potential. As a fan of a MAC/CUSA/SunBelt school, wouldn't you want to watch teams in your conference want to knock others out of the playoffs? BS this school vs that school arguments can actually get settled on the field. Compare that with a bowl game, where you may end up playing a school barely above 500 because you don't have the right bowl tie in or because schools refuse to play you. Wtf is that..

The assumption you're making is that it won't get better for the G5.

As a MAC fan I can remember the days of 1 bowl for the champion only. No hope ever of making a NYD game.

G5 TV deals are off the charts from 10 years ago. MAC got an 8 fold increase in TV money from its individual deal and 20 fold increase from the CFP. MAC made $32 million in money from ESPN the year WMU made the Cotton Bowl.

Yeah but C-USA's last media deal: a $20 Olive Garden gift card a free hat.

Mmmmmm... breadsticks.

Yeah the 14 schools shared 2 bowls of Italian wedding soup just for those bottomless breadsticks. UTEP got a glass of syrupy moscato.

Several C-USA programs aren’t old enough to drink yet.
02-23-2021 11:43 AM
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