(02-23-2021 06:44 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  As a semi spiritual person who believes in the Ten Commandments I can't see how anyone who proclaims themselves Christian can support abortion in any except the most extreme cases.

But as an American, do you believe that your beliefs are somehow more important than someone else who does not think that?

I personally don't think I would ever choose to have an abortion (unless it were life or death, since I already have a child & would choose to stay here for him), but it is absolutely none of my business what the person 2 streets over chooses to do - that's between them, their family, and their beliefs.

It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

(02-23-2021 10:11 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  As if I remotley claimed education and birth control were disgusting.

Such disingenuous responses make this discussion pretty pointless.

Then see yourself out. The rest of us were having a discussion.

(02-23-2021 10:18 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:11 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  As if I remotley claimed education and birth control were disgusting.

Such disingenuous responses make this discussion pretty pointless.

Then see yourself out. The rest of us were having a discussion.

Well I was but since you decided to give me orders I think I'll stay and continue to point out your immoral nonsense on this subject.

(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 06:44 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  As a semi spiritual person who believes in the Ten Commandments I can't see how anyone who proclaims themselves Christian can support abortion in any except the most extreme cases.

But as an American, do you believe that your beliefs are somehow more important than someone else who does not think that?

I personally don't think I would ever choose to have an abortion (unless it were life or death, since I already have a child & would choose to stay here for him), but it is absolutely none of my business what the person 2 streets over chooses to do - that's between them, their family, and their beliefs.

It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

That’s where we differ. To me abortion is murder. Murder is illegal in most if not all civilized countries. Civil laws may change or be different from country to country. But Gods law never changes.

(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  But as an American, do you believe that your beliefs are somehow more important than someone else who does not think that?

I personally don't think I would ever choose to have an abortion (unless it were life or death, since I already have a child & would choose to stay here for him), but it is absolutely none of my business what the person 2 streets over chooses to do - that's between them, their family, and their beliefs.

It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

No, it is not possible to pretend to care about Christian values and the same time say you support the slaughter of millions of innocent babies.

What if murdering blacks was legal in this country, would you then pretend as a Christian its ok to support that law? Would you then argue that you personally would not murder blacks but you support other peoples freedom of choice on the matter?

That is a disgustingly immoral position for a Christian to take.

(02-23-2021 10:26 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 06:44 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  As a semi spiritual person who believes in the Ten Commandments I can't see how anyone who proclaims themselves Christian can support abortion in any except the most extreme cases.

But as an American, do you believe that your beliefs are somehow more important than someone else who does not think that?

I personally don't think I would ever choose to have an abortion (unless it were life or death, since I already have a child & would choose to stay here for him), but it is absolutely none of my business what the person 2 streets over chooses to do - that's between them, their family, and their beliefs.

It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

That’s where we differ. To me abortion is murder. Murder is illegal in most if not all civilized countries. Civil laws may change or be different from country to country. But Gods law never changes.

...and that is 100% your right to believe that. My personal "line" is drawn at viability outside the womb.
Personal opinions aside, it's not my place to force my beliefs on someone else when it comes to decisions involving their own body. The law stands behind me on that as well.

As a Christian (yes, Eric, you can be pro-choice & Christian - your ridiculous comparison isn't worth responding to as it is apples and kumquats), I might not make the same choices as someone else, but it's their decision to make about their body and their decision they have to be at peace with. As I Christian I can also support full education, birth control, and women's care programs to help lower the rates of those women who feel that they have to make that choice in the first place. That in particular is an issue that repubs fail miserably on.

As an American, I have to respect the fact that other people are going to make decisions that are still legal, but that I may not agree with. Back to Biden, no matter his personal belief, it is literally his job to defend the rights of a woman to be able to choose what happens with her body.

A pregnant woman could be traveling to the abortion clinic, get in to an accident caused by another person who is drunk and depending on where it occurs the drunk person could be charged with two counts of homicide if the woman and unborn child are killed.

That's how much sense our laws make.

(02-23-2021 10:49 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  A pregnant woman could be traveling to the abortion clinic, get in to an accident caused by another person who is drunk and depending on where it occurs the drunk person could be charged with two counts of homicide if the woman and unborn child are killed.

That's how much sense our laws make.

Agreed; that's nonsensical.

Of course she refuses to respond to it.

naturally

I agree that a woman has the right to choose. The time for that is before she has unprotected sex. And the man is just as responsible.

(02-23-2021 11:06 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  I agree that a woman has the right to choose. The time for that is before she has unprotected sex. And the man is just as responsible.

Condoms and other birth control methods are not 100% assurances against getting pregnant.

(02-23-2021 11:28 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 11:06 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  I agree that a woman has the right to choose. The time for that is before she has unprotected sex. And the man is just as responsible.

Condoms and other birth control methods are not 100% assurances against getting pregnant.

For the 1%, a life is a life. If a heartbeat is detectable, to me it is murder.

(02-23-2021 11:28 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 11:06 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  I agree that a woman has the right to choose. The time for that is before she has unprotected sex. And the man is just as responsible.

Condoms and other birth control methods are not 100% assurances against getting pregnant.

Murdering innocent babies is not birth control, its murdering innocent babies.

(02-23-2021 12:09 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 11:28 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 11:06 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  I agree that a woman has the right to choose. The time for that is before she has unprotected sex. And the man is just as responsible.

Condoms and other birth control methods are not 100% assurances against getting pregnant.

Murdering innocent babies is not birth control, its murdering innocent babies.

There are many forms of birth control. But abortion is not one of them.

(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

Green my friend, it's not possible. As a Christian you can support tolerance for choices that you might not choose for your self if it affects only that person.. perhaps alchohol, drugs, any number of things. But as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human.. that choice not only affects the woman but the child... it just doesn't fit.

thank you for your response, i appreciate discussion

(02-23-2021 02:04 PM)Oman Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

g.

Green my friend, it's not possible. As a Christian you can support tolerance for choices that you might not choose for your self if it affects only that person.. perhaps alchohol, drugs, any number of things. But as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human.. that choice not only affects the woman but the child... it just doesn't fit.

thank you for your response, i appreciate discussion

AMEN

No matter how they try to spin this, the simple fact is its the killing of an innocent human being.

They do all these mental gymnastics to try to avoid that obvious basic fact. But there is no getting around that obvious truth.

(02-23-2021 02:04 PM)Oman Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

Green my friend, it's not possible. As a Christian you can support tolerance for choices that you might not choose for your self if it affects only that person.. perhaps alchohol, drugs, any number of things. But as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human.. that choice not only affects the woman but the child... it just doesn't fit.

thank you for your response, i appreciate discussion

I disagree, and where it seems to diverge is when people consider it to be "murder."
Some like previous posters consider it to be when there's a heartbeat, some consider it to be at conception, I personally consider it to be at viability. Every single person has a different opinion on this issue.

As a Christian I can support a woman's right to choose what happens with her body, even if not a single fiber of my being would be able to do it personally. I can also understand and respect the fact that the law extends past when I personally think is "too far." It is a personal choice between a woman, her doctor, and her partner/family.

If the rule is that as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human, then a whole lot of Christians need to revamp their opinion on the death penalty as well. Doesn't matter if that person is a wicked, evil being - you're supporting ending the life of a person who is already living & breathing outside of another person's body.

(02-23-2021 02:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 02:04 PM)Oman Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

Green my friend, it's not possible. As a Christian you can support tolerance for choices that you might not choose for your self if it affects only that person.. perhaps alchohol, drugs, any number of things. But as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human.. that choice not only affects the woman but the child... it just doesn't fit.

thank you for your response, i appreciate discussion

I disagree, and where it seems to diverge is when people consider it to be "murder."
Some like previous posters consider it to be when there's a heartbeat, some consider it to be at conception, I personally consider it to be at viability. Every single person has a different opinion on this issue.

As a Christian I can support a woman's right to choose what happens with her body, even if not a single fiber of my being would be able to do it personally. I can also understand and respect the fact that the law extends past when I personally think is "too far." It is a personal choice between a woman, her doctor, and her partner/family.

If the rule is that as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human, then a whole lot of Christians need to revamp their opinion on the death penalty as well. Doesn't matter if that person is a wicked, evil being - you're supporting ending the life of a person who is already living & breathing outside of another person's body.

Unborn children do not deserve capital punishment. At least compare abortion to killing someone in self-defense which also isn't comparable. It's a better argument.

(02-23-2021 02:31 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 02:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 02:04 PM)Oman Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

Green my friend, it's not possible. As a Christian you can support tolerance for choices that you might not choose for your self if it affects only that person.. perhaps alchohol, drugs, any number of things. But as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human.. that choice not only affects the woman but the child... it just doesn't fit.

thank you for your response, i appreciate discussion

I disagree, and where it seems to diverge is when people consider it to be "murder."
Some like previous posters consider it to be when there's a heartbeat, some consider it to be at conception, I personally consider it to be at viability. Every single person has a different opinion on this issue.

As a Christian I can support a woman's right to choose what happens with her body, even if not a single fiber of my being would be able to do it personally. I can also understand and respect the fact that the law extends past when I personally think is "too far." It is a personal choice between a woman, her doctor, and her partner/family.

If the rule is that as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human, then a whole lot of Christians need to revamp their opinion on the death penalty as well. Doesn't matter if that person is a wicked, evil being - you're supporting ending the life of a person who is already living & breathing outside of another person's body.

Unborn children do not deserve capital punishment. At least compare abortion to killing someone in self-defense which also isn't comparable. It's a better argument.

No; if the argument made is that as a Christian you can't support the right to end a life, then it all comes into play - self-defense (which you could argue late term abortion in situations of the mother's life), death penalty, all of it. A life is a life is a life, and using Oman's statement, a Christian has to stand against ending anyone's life.

FTR, I don't believe in all this - there is nuance in all of it, but if the 'sanctity of life' and 'murder' is the issue being argued that you can't be a Christian & support, then at least be consistent.

If you change it to "an innocent life," then you're moving the goalposts and introducing the same nuance that you're speaking out against when you say that a woman in this country shouldn't be able to make a choice about what happens with her own body even if she doesn't share the same religious beliefs that you do.

(02-23-2021 02:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 02:04 PM)Oman Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

Green my friend, it's not possible. As a Christian you can support tolerance for choices that you might not choose for your self if it affects only that person.. perhaps alchohol, drugs, any number of things. But as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human.. that choice not only affects the woman but the child... it just doesn't fit.

thank you for your response, i appreciate discussion

I disagree, and where it seems to diverge is when people consider it to be "murder."
Some like previous posters consider it to be when there's a heartbeat, some consider it to be at conception, I personally consider it to be at viability. Every single person has a different opinion on this issue.

As a Christian I can support a woman's right to choose what happens with her body, even if not a single fiber of my being would be able to do it personally. I can also understand and respect the fact that the law extends past when I personally think is "too far." It is a personal choice between a woman, her doctor, and her partner/family.

If the rule is that as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human, then a whole lot of Christians need to revamp their opinion on the death penalty as well. Doesn't matter if that person is a wicked, evil being - you're supporting ending the life of a person who is already living & breathing outside of another person's body.

The "death penalty" probably does need to be looked at too. It's not our right to judge, only Gods. But all people who are given the "death penalty" are guilty of taking the life of another human being and that is wrong.

But a life is a life, whether inside the womb or outside. Thats my view. (And that is why killing a pregnant woman yields 2 counts of murder)