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Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
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teamvsn Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-20-2021 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas has a really wonky set up but I don’t think the CA system is an improvement.

The UC schools are top notch but there aren’t enough seats to accommodate all the qualified CA kids, plus they are competing with out-of-state and international candidates.

The Cal St schools meanwhile have an academic ceiling that they can’t rise above.

The state needs a third system where select Cal St schools can exist in a happy medium between the two

It sounds to me like you''re talking about the Cal Poly schools themselves. Many people here aren't even aware that the Cal Polies are in the CSU system, and hold them in high regard. Add PhD options to them and maybe add 2-3 more campuses from the CSU system and call it done.
02-20-2021 04:26 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-20-2021 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas has a really wonky set up but I don’t think the CA system is an improvement.

The UC schools are top notch but there aren’t enough seats to accommodate all the qualified CA kids, plus they are competing with out-of-state and international candidates.

The Cal St schools meanwhile have an academic ceiling that they can’t rise above.

The state needs a third system where select Cal St schools can exist in a happy medium between the two

LOL, we actually agree. I think there needs to be a 3rd system, and I'm not talking about the Cal poly schools. I've been calling for that for almost a decade now, largely as part of a plan to double the number of truly residential seats in California to deal with the shortage. It is more a reorganization of existing resources than anything, not a spending proposal (certainly there would be some).

1. Reduce the number of seats for PRC students in the UC system by 40,000
-- open these up for fully qualified California students
2. Set up a 4 or 5 campus "middle tier" University system by picking certain of the CSU campuses:
-- San Diego State, San Jose State, CSU Fresno and CSU Chico were four of pick, rural is preferred, but also high endowment and potential for industry partnerships. (Chico could fall off, Long Beach or another could come in once criteria are set)
-- the Cal Poly schools would move administratively under this system since they have high entrance criteria
-- expand housing to handle Freshmen and Sophomores
-- higher admission standards, emphasis on taking Freshmen over CC transfers
-- expanded research to raise all schools in system to R2
3. Refocus remaining CSUs as regional and urban campuses, which they mostly are already

The worry is that California's government would under fund the new system and completely neglect the regional system of CSUs, much like the Community College system is largely ignored and woefully underfunded.
02-20-2021 07:25 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-20-2021 07:25 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  1. Reduce the number of seats for PRC students in the UC system by 40,000
-- open these up for fully qualified California students

The total number of non-US students at UC campuses is about 41,000. (source) You want to eliminate 98% of the non-US students?

Also, whatever percentage you eliminate, if you replace those places one-for-one with California residents paying California resident tuition -- and getting financial aid -- then you're creating a significant revenue shortfall that you have to replace somehow.

(02-20-2021 07:25 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  2. Set up a 4 or 5 campus "middle tier" University system by picking certain of the CSU campuses:
-- San Diego State, San Jose State, CSU Fresno and CSU Chico were four of pick, rural is preferred, but also high endowment and potential for industry partnerships. (Chico could fall off, Long Beach or another could come in once criteria are set)
-- the Cal Poly schools would move administratively under this system since they have high entrance criteria
-- expand housing to handle Freshmen and Sophomores
-- higher admission standards, emphasis on taking Freshmen over CC transfers
-- expanded research to raise all schools in system to R2

There's no reason to spend money doing this and it would cause a giant political fight. First, you would be consigning about 20 Cal State campuses to a less-prestigious third tier. Every campus and most of the cities containing those campuses that the bureaucrats tried to relegate to the lower tier would fight like hell against it.

Second, good luck getting anyone to agree on the criteria for your second tier. You want to do it by acceptance rates? Okay, here's a list of Cal State acceptance rates, lowest to highest. I suspect this cutoff is not where you would want it.

(source)

Cal Poly San Luis Obispo 28%
San Diego State 34%
CSU Long Beach 39%
CSU Fullerton 41%
CSU Los Angeles 42%

Cal Poly Pomona 55%
CSU Northridge 56%
CSU Fresno 58%
CSU San Marcos 58%
San Jose State 64%
Cal Maritime 67%
CSU San Bernardino 69%
CSU Chico 72%
San Francisco State 72%
CSU Channel Islands 74%
CSU East Bay 74%
CSU Monterey Bay 75%
Humboldt State University 79%
CSU Sacramento 82%
CSU Dominguez Hills 83%
CSU Stanislaus 89%
Sonoma State University 91%
CSU Bakersfield 100%

(02-20-2021 07:25 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  3. Refocus remaining CSUs as regional and urban campuses, which they mostly are already

Students and parents already have a hierarchy for these campuses that isn't much different from the list above. There's no need to add another administrative layer and rebranding of schools.

Overall, the financial and political costs would be very large and any benefits would be minor.
02-20-2021 08:13 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
41,000 is a decrease from 56,000 two years ago when covid-19 hit. Chinese nationals made up 41,000 of those 56,000

My aim was to bring it back down to the pre-2008 number of 15,000 of the 175,000 or so undergrads.

The UC system discovered it was gold mine of full tuition paying students. They thus cut dramatically the number of California HS grads accepted, down from 11% to 8% threshold, although we know a very large number are shunted to UC Merced where the decline rate is almost 99%. It's a paper game they play to claim top 8% when in fact it is top 5%, despite the law saying top 11%.

As for the political fight, absoltely I'll take it on. I think the top 20% of California HS students should have a residential option. That would be in line with most other states. The UC hieracrchy is among commuters. What you are not capturing are the very large number of Californians going to non-Ivy residential schools out of State, taking over $1B in tuition, room and board with them. If you can keep half of them in State, you would pay for the reforms.

I also would reduce the R&D budgets to the UCs a bit. We don't need 6 public schools funded at AAU level. 4 would already be in line with our population size.
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2021 10:07 PM by Stugray2.)
02-20-2021 09:45 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-20-2021 09:45 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  41,000 is a decrease from 56,000 two years ago when covid-19 hit. Chinese nationals made up 41,000 of those 56,000

My aim was to bring it back down to the pre-2008 number of 15,000 of the 150,000 or so undergrads.

The UC system discovered it was gold mine of full tuition paying students. They thus cut dramatically the number of California HS grads accepted, down from 11% to 8% threshold, although we know a very large number are shunted to UC Merced where the decline rate is almost 99%. It's a paper game they play to claim top 8% when in fact it is top 5%, despite the law saying top 11%.

As for the political fight, absoltely I'll take it on. I think the top 20% of California HS students should have a residential option. That would be in line with most other states. The UC hieracrchy is among commuters. What you are not capturing are the very large number of Californians going to non-Ivy residential schools out of State, taking over $1B in tuition, room and board with them. If you can keep half of them in State, you would pay for the reforms.

I also would reduce the R&D budgets to the UCs a bit. We don't need 6 public schools funded at AAU level. 4 would already be in line with our population size.

You don't want to reduce the number of top flight research schools. They are already in high demand. UCLA, Cal and UCSD are on anybody's list of the top public schools in the country. Davis, Santa Barbara, Irvine and Santa Cruz are all very high among American universities. And UC-SF, the medical school is among the tops in the country.
02-20-2021 10:00 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
California UCs are super impacted. It has nothing to do with grad research funded by California tax payers. The money is not sufficiently directed to educating California students.

Once you meet state law requirements for accepting the right number of California resident students, then the addition state funds can go to R&D. But you have to meet charter first. California is not following state law now, and neither the current nor prior AG nor the UC regents nor the Lt. Gov are enforcing the law.
02-20-2021 10:20 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-20-2021 09:45 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  41,000 is a decrease from 56,000 two years ago when covid-19 hit. Chinese nationals made up 41,000 of those 56,000

Nope. Try again. The correct number is 41,000 total non-US students before the pandemic, as anyone who clicked on the link noticed.

Quote:The UC system enrolled 13,000 international students in the fall of 2010. That number skyrocketed to 41,000 in the fall of 2019.

You want to reduce that 41,000 to 1,000 and to replace 40,000 students paying full out of state tuition with 40,000 students paying in-state tuition, without any plan to make the UC schools whole for the loss of 40,000 x the difference between out of state and in state tuition.
02-21-2021 01:29 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-19-2021 01:14 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So does SLO have to play their name change of they do go through with the Cal Poly Humbolt thing?

What kind of relationship does SLO and Pomona currently have?
They are both CSUs, same team 1 big body, teacher schools. UCs are the other state school body of research institutions.
02-21-2021 04:32 AM
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joeben69 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-20-2021 04:26 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas has a really wonky set up but I don’t think the CA system is an improvement.

The UC schools are top notch but there aren’t enough seats to accommodate all the qualified CA kids, plus they are competing with out-of-state and international candidates.

The Cal St schools meanwhile have an academic ceiling that they can’t rise above.

The state needs a third system where select Cal St schools can exist in a happy medium between the two

It sounds to me like you''re talking about the Cal Poly schools themselves. Many people here aren't even aware that the Cal Polies are in the CSU system, and hold them in high regard. Add PhD options to them and maybe add 2-3 more campuses from the CSU system and call it done.

if there were 1-2 more campus to be nominated to add to the Cal Poly schools i would nominate either CSU Monterrey Bay and/or Sonoma State University...

geographically speaking:

if you want to break up CA into fourths then you could add just CSU Monterrey Bay...it has a similar enrollment size as Humboldt State University...and it's located on the CA coast just south of the San Francisco Bay Area...

if you want to break up CA into fifths then you could also add Sonoma State University...it has a similar enrollment size as Humboldt State University and CSU Monterrey Bay...it's located off the CA coast just north of the San Francisco Bay...
02-21-2021 05:00 AM
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joeben69 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-20-2021 04:26 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas has a really wonky set up but I don’t think the CA system is an improvement.

The UC schools are top notch but there aren’t enough seats to accommodate all the qualified CA kids, plus they are competing with out-of-state and international candidates.

The Cal St schools meanwhile have an academic ceiling that they can’t rise above.

The state needs a third system where select Cal St schools can exist in a happy medium between the two

It sounds to me like you''re talking about the Cal Poly schools themselves. Many people here aren't even aware that the Cal Polies are in the CSU system, and hold them in high regard. Add PhD options to them and maybe add 2-3 more campuses from the CSU system and call it done.

CA does have a third system...it's the CA Community College System...
California Community Colleges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...y_Colleges

the CA Community College System also has it's own athletic association that most of the community colleges participate in...The California Community College Athletic Association (CCCAA)...
California Community College Athletic Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...ssociation

if the reference is to a third 4-year system then a Cal Poly stand alone system would be more to the point...CA would have the University of CA System (UC), CA State University System (CSU), and the CA Polytechnic State University System (CPSU)...it would be similar to how TX has the University of TX System, TX State University System, and the TX Tech University System...

this would be...for the sake of conversation...a cool proposal...
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2021 05:35 AM by joeben69.)
02-21-2021 05:34 AM
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Post: #31
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-21-2021 05:34 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 04:26 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas has a really wonky set up but I don’t think the CA system is an improvement.

The UC schools are top notch but there aren’t enough seats to accommodate all the qualified CA kids, plus they are competing with out-of-state and international candidates.

The Cal St schools meanwhile have an academic ceiling that they can’t rise above.

The state needs a third system where select Cal St schools can exist in a happy medium between the two

It sounds to me like you''re talking about the Cal Poly schools themselves. Many people here aren't even aware that the Cal Polies are in the CSU system, and hold them in high regard. Add PhD options to them and maybe add 2-3 more campuses from the CSU system and call it done.

CA does have a third system...it's the CA Community College System...
California Community Colleges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...y_Colleges

the CA Community College System also has it's own athletic association that most of the community colleges participate in...The California Community College Athletic Association (CCCAA)...
California Community College Athletic Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...ssociation

if the reference is to a third 4-year system then a Cal Poly stand alone system would be more to the point...CA would have the University of CA System (UC), CA State University System (CSU), and the CA Polytechnic State University System (CPSU)...it would be similar to how TX has the University of TX System, TX State University System, and the TX Tech University System...

this would be...for the sake of conversation...a cool proposal...

Texas have 4 with the Texas A&M system as well.

Since CalTech is already a private, the CalPoly schools can't be shorten to Cal Tech system.

One of the biggest concerns for California education leadership of both the UC and CSU systems of California high school students are leaving the state in droves to attend colleges and universities out of state. So, could the California schools break down to a 4 system?

UC
CSU
CalPoly
Cal A&M?

There are some CC schools that are large enough in student enrollment that could become a 4 year school in areas that there is 4 year schools are at. You have like 115 community colleges that could help sereved if they become 4 year. Some could become CSU while others could be part of the Cal Poly.

East Los Angeles College could become a 4 year and be Cal Poly Los Angeles.
Santa Monico College could be one. Number 2 behind East LA College for students enrolled.
Santa Ana College is third.
Pasadena College is a good place to add a 4 year.
De Anza is a top notch JC to be a 4 year.
Santa Rosa JC always have history in college sports with NCAA schools. I think they are the only school that got a waiver from the NCAA D1 to compete in Archery on the west coast. I know they played football on the west coast against UCLA, Saint Mary's and them in the old days. I think they will be the number 1 school that can go to 4 year, and be one of the CSU or Cal Poly branch.
Sierra College is in the northern part of the state.
Antelope Valley and Ventura are two areas that do not have a 4 year public.
Butte College
College of the Sequoias
San Mateo
College of the Desert
Shasta in Redding California just south of the border of Oregon on Interstate 5.
Moreno Valley
Oxnard
Yuba
Redwoods
Palo Verde in Needles California
Palo Verde in Blythe California
Barstow (could served the military personal from the base in the area. There is also Park University which is in NAIA that serves the military base there, and that Park also serves Little Rock Air Force base here.)
Lake Tahoe

We need to look at how the state of California is growing in population, but the campuses at the large schools tend to be overgrown, but in most cases the male students at some campuses are less than the females.
02-21-2021 09:53 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-21-2021 09:53 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 05:34 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 04:26 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas has a really wonky set up but I don’t think the CA system is an improvement.

The UC schools are top notch but there aren’t enough seats to accommodate all the qualified CA kids, plus they are competing with out-of-state and international candidates.

The Cal St schools meanwhile have an academic ceiling that they can’t rise above.

The state needs a third system where select Cal St schools can exist in a happy medium between the two

It sounds to me like you''re talking about the Cal Poly schools themselves. Many people here aren't even aware that the Cal Polies are in the CSU system, and hold them in high regard. Add PhD options to them and maybe add 2-3 more campuses from the CSU system and call it done.

CA does have a third system...it's the CA Community College System...
California Community Colleges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...y_Colleges

the CA Community College System also has it's own athletic association that most of the community colleges participate in...The California Community College Athletic Association (CCCAA)...
California Community College Athletic Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...ssociation

if the reference is to a third 4-year system then a Cal Poly stand alone system would be more to the point...CA would have the University of CA System (UC), CA State University System (CSU), and the CA Polytechnic State University System (CPSU)...it would be similar to how TX has the University of TX System, TX State University System, and the TX Tech University System...

this would be...for the sake of conversation...a cool proposal...

Texas have 4 with the Texas A&M system as well.

Since CalTech is already a private, the CalPoly schools can't be shorten to Cal Tech system.

One of the biggest concerns for California education leadership of both the UC and CSU systems of California high school students are leaving the state in droves to attend colleges and universities out of state. So, could the California schools break down to a 4 system?

UC
CSU
CalPoly
Cal A&M?

There are some CC schools that are large enough in student enrollment that could become a 4 year school in areas that there is 4 year schools are at. You have like 115 community colleges that could help sereved if they become 4 year. Some could become CSU while others could be part of the Cal Poly.

East Los Angeles College could become a 4 year and be Cal Poly Los Angeles.
Santa Monico College could be one. Number 2 behind East LA College for students enrolled.
Santa Ana College is third.
Pasadena College is a good place to add a 4 year.
De Anza is a top notch JC to be a 4 year.
Santa Rosa JC always have history in college sports with NCAA schools. I think they are the only school that got a waiver from the NCAA D1 to compete in Archery on the west coast. I know they played football on the west coast against UCLA, Saint Mary's and them in the old days. I think they will be the number 1 school that can go to 4 year, and be one of the CSU or Cal Poly branch.
Sierra College is in the northern part of the state.
Antelope Valley and Ventura are two areas that do not have a 4 year public.
Butte College
College of the Sequoias
San Mateo
College of the Desert
Shasta in Redding California just south of the border of Oregon on Interstate 5.
Moreno Valley
Oxnard
Yuba
Redwoods
Palo Verde in Needles California
Palo Verde in Blythe California
Barstow (could served the military personal from the base in the area. There is also Park University which is in NAIA that serves the military base there, and that Park also serves Little Rock Air Force base here.)
Lake Tahoe

We need to look at how the state of California is growing in population, but the campuses at the large schools tend to be overgrown, but in most cases the male students at some campuses are less than the females.

Texas actually has 6 university systems that include two or more separately accredited degree-granting institutions:

UT system
A&M system
Texas State system
Texas Tech system
North Texas system
Houston system

Plus 4 public universities that are independent of those systems. It’s a governance mess.
02-21-2021 10:26 AM
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joeben69 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-21-2021 09:53 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 05:34 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 04:26 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas has a really wonky set up but I don’t think the CA system is an improvement.

The UC schools are top notch but there aren’t enough seats to accommodate all the qualified CA kids, plus they are competing with out-of-state and international candidates.

The Cal St schools meanwhile have an academic ceiling that they can’t rise above.

The state needs a third system where select Cal St schools can exist in a happy medium between the two

It sounds to me like you''re talking about the Cal Poly schools themselves. Many people here aren't even aware that the Cal Polies are in the CSU system, and hold them in high regard. Add PhD options to them and maybe add 2-3 more campuses from the CSU system and call it done.

CA does have a third system...it's the CA Community College System...
California Community Colleges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...y_Colleges

the CA Community College System also has it's own athletic association that most of the community colleges participate in...The California Community College Athletic Association (CCCAA)...
California Community College Athletic Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...ssociation

if the reference is to a third 4-year system then a Cal Poly stand alone system would be more to the point...CA would have the University of CA System (UC), CA State University System (CSU), and the CA Polytechnic State University System (CPSU)...it would be similar to how TX has the University of TX System, TX State University System, and the TX Tech University System...

this would be...for the sake of conversation...a cool proposal...

Texas have 4 with the Texas A&M system as well.

Since CalTech is already a private, the CalPoly schools can't be shorten to Cal Tech system.

One of the biggest concerns for California education leadership of both the UC and CSU systems of California high school students are leaving the state in droves to attend colleges and universities out of state. So, could the California schools break down to a 4 system?

UC
CSU
CalPoly
Cal A&M?

There are some CC schools that are large enough in student enrollment that could become a 4 year school in areas that there is 4 year schools are at. You have like 115 community colleges that could help sereved if they become 4 year. Some could become CSU while others could be part of the Cal Poly.

East Los Angeles College could become a 4 year and be Cal Poly Los Angeles.
Santa Monico College could be one. Number 2 behind East LA College for students enrolled.
Santa Ana College is third.
Pasadena College is a good place to add a 4 year.
De Anza is a top notch JC to be a 4 year.
Santa Rosa JC always have history in college sports with NCAA schools. I think they are the only school that got a waiver from the NCAA D1 to compete in Archery on the west coast. I know they played football on the west coast against UCLA, Saint Mary's and them in the old days. I think they will be the number 1 school that can go to 4 year, and be one of the CSU or Cal Poly branch.
Sierra College is in the northern part of the state.
Antelope Valley and Ventura are two areas that do not have a 4 year public.
Butte College
College of the Sequoias
San Mateo
College of the Desert
Shasta in Redding California just south of the border of Oregon on Interstate 5.
Moreno Valley
Oxnard
Yuba
Redwoods
Palo Verde in Needles California
Palo Verde in Blythe California
Barstow (could served the military personal from the base in the area. There is also Park University which is in NAIA that serves the military base there, and that Park also serves Little Rock Air Force base here.)
Lake Tahoe

We need to look at how the state of California is growing in population, but the campuses at the large schools tend to be overgrown, but in most cases the male students at some campuses are less than the females.

there are already CA Community Colleges that offer Bachelor's Degrees...

CA Community Colleges Offering Bachelor's Degrees
https://transfer.santarosa.edu/ca-commun...rs-degrees

there are plans to expand on CA Community Colleges that offer Bachelor's Degrees...
4-year degree program at CA community colleges extended through 2026
https://www.sdccd.edu/about/departments-...tended.asp

there seems to be positive feedback on CA Community Colleges offering Bachelor's Degrees...
Final Evaluation of Community College Bachelor's Degree Pilot
https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4140

even though there are some community colleges (2-year institutions) that offer bachelor's degrees (4-year degrees) they are not going to convert into 4-year institutions...

people are actually moving out of CA to states like OR, NV, AZ, & TX due to cost of living...current political situation...among other things...

UC Davis is the de facto CA A&M...it's part of the University of CA System...it has no interest in breaking away and starting a stand alone CA A&M System...

overall the answer would be a resounding NO to your proposal...
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2021 03:44 PM by joeben69.)
02-21-2021 02:21 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-21-2021 10:26 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 09:53 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 05:34 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 04:26 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas has a really wonky set up but I don’t think the CA system is an improvement.

The UC schools are top notch but there aren’t enough seats to accommodate all the qualified CA kids, plus they are competing with out-of-state and international candidates.

The Cal St schools meanwhile have an academic ceiling that they can’t rise above.

The state needs a third system where select Cal St schools can exist in a happy medium between the two

It sounds to me like you''re talking about the Cal Poly schools themselves. Many people here aren't even aware that the Cal Polies are in the CSU system, and hold them in high regard. Add PhD options to them and maybe add 2-3 more campuses from the CSU system and call it done.

CA does have a third system...it's the CA Community College System...
California Community Colleges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...y_Colleges

the CA Community College System also has it's own athletic association that most of the community colleges participate in...The California Community College Athletic Association (CCCAA)...
California Community College Athletic Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...ssociation

if the reference is to a third 4-year system then a Cal Poly stand alone system would be more to the point...CA would have the University of CA System (UC), CA State University System (CSU), and the CA Polytechnic State University System (CPSU)...it would be similar to how TX has the University of TX System, TX State University System, and the TX Tech University System...

this would be...for the sake of conversation...a cool proposal...

Texas have 4 with the Texas A&M system as well.

Since CalTech is already a private, the CalPoly schools can't be shorten to Cal Tech system.

One of the biggest concerns for California education leadership of both the UC and CSU systems of California high school students are leaving the state in droves to attend colleges and universities out of state. So, could the California schools break down to a 4 system?

UC
CSU
CalPoly
Cal A&M?

There are some CC schools that are large enough in student enrollment that could become a 4 year school in areas that there is 4 year schools are at. You have like 115 community colleges that could help sereved if they become 4 year. Some could become CSU while others could be part of the Cal Poly.

East Los Angeles College could become a 4 year and be Cal Poly Los Angeles.
Santa Monico College could be one. Number 2 behind East LA College for students enrolled.
Santa Ana College is third.
Pasadena College is a good place to add a 4 year.
De Anza is a top notch JC to be a 4 year.
Santa Rosa JC always have history in college sports with NCAA schools. I think they are the only school that got a waiver from the NCAA D1 to compete in Archery on the west coast. I know they played football on the west coast against UCLA, Saint Mary's and them in the old days. I think they will be the number 1 school that can go to 4 year, and be one of the CSU or Cal Poly branch.
Sierra College is in the northern part of the state.
Antelope Valley and Ventura are two areas that do not have a 4 year public.
Butte College
College of the Sequoias
San Mateo
College of the Desert
Shasta in Redding California just south of the border of Oregon on Interstate 5.
Moreno Valley
Oxnard
Yuba
Redwoods
Palo Verde in Needles California
Palo Verde in Blythe California
Barstow (could served the military personal from the base in the area. There is also Park University which is in NAIA that serves the military base there, and that Park also serves Little Rock Air Force base here.)
Lake Tahoe

We need to look at how the state of California is growing in population, but the campuses at the large schools tend to be overgrown, but in most cases the male students at some campuses are less than the females.

Texas actually has 6 university systems that include two or more separately accredited degree-granting institutions:

UT system
A&M system
Texas State system
Texas Tech system
North Texas system
Houston system

Plus 4 public universities that are independent of those systems. It’s a governance mess.

Its probably the worst setup in the US. You've got rival systems, with A&M and Houston often working against the interests of their area or the state in order to promote their own system.
02-21-2021 02:27 PM
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joeben69 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-21-2021 10:26 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 09:53 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 05:34 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 04:26 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas has a really wonky set up but I don’t think the CA system is an improvement.

The UC schools are top notch but there aren’t enough seats to accommodate all the qualified CA kids, plus they are competing with out-of-state and international candidates.

The Cal St schools meanwhile have an academic ceiling that they can’t rise above.

The state needs a third system where select Cal St schools can exist in a happy medium between the two

It sounds to me like you''re talking about the Cal Poly schools themselves. Many people here aren't even aware that the Cal Polies are in the CSU system, and hold them in high regard. Add PhD options to them and maybe add 2-3 more campuses from the CSU system and call it done.

CA does have a third system...it's the CA Community College System...
California Community Colleges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...y_Colleges

the CA Community College System also has it's own athletic association that most of the community colleges participate in...The California Community College Athletic Association (CCCAA)...
California Community College Athletic Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...ssociation

if the reference is to a third 4-year system then a Cal Poly stand alone system would be more to the point...CA would have the University of CA System (UC), CA State University System (CSU), and the CA Polytechnic State University System (CPSU)...it would be similar to how TX has the University of TX System, TX State University System, and the TX Tech University System...

this would be...for the sake of conversation...a cool proposal...

Texas have 4 with the Texas A&M system as well.

Since CalTech is already a private, the CalPoly schools can't be shorten to Cal Tech system.

One of the biggest concerns for California education leadership of both the UC and CSU systems of California high school students are leaving the state in droves to attend colleges and universities out of state. So, could the California schools break down to a 4 system?

UC
CSU
CalPoly
Cal A&M?

There are some CC schools that are large enough in student enrollment that could become a 4 year school in areas that there is 4 year schools are at. You have like 115 community colleges that could help sereved if they become 4 year. Some could become CSU while others could be part of the Cal Poly.

East Los Angeles College could become a 4 year and be Cal Poly Los Angeles.
Santa Monico College could be one. Number 2 behind East LA College for students enrolled.
Santa Ana College is third.
Pasadena College is a good place to add a 4 year.
De Anza is a top notch JC to be a 4 year.
Santa Rosa JC always have history in college sports with NCAA schools. I think they are the only school that got a waiver from the NCAA D1 to compete in Archery on the west coast. I know they played football on the west coast against UCLA, Saint Mary's and them in the old days. I think they will be the number 1 school that can go to 4 year, and be one of the CSU or Cal Poly branch.
Sierra College is in the northern part of the state.
Antelope Valley and Ventura are two areas that do not have a 4 year public.
Butte College
College of the Sequoias
San Mateo
College of the Desert
Shasta in Redding California just south of the border of Oregon on Interstate 5.
Moreno Valley
Oxnard
Yuba
Redwoods
Palo Verde in Needles California
Palo Verde in Blythe California
Barstow (could served the military personal from the base in the area. There is also Park University which is in NAIA that serves the military base there, and that Park also serves Little Rock Air Force base here.)
Lake Tahoe

We need to look at how the state of California is growing in population, but the campuses at the large schools tend to be overgrown, but in most cases the male students at some campuses are less than the females.

Texas actually has 6 university systems that include two or more separately accredited degree-granting institutions:

UT system
A&M system
Texas State system
Texas Tech system
North Texas system
Houston system

Plus 4 public universities that are independent of those systems. It’s a governance mess.

i did notice that when i was doing research...

i just got done educating DavidSt on the nuance of the CA post-secondary education system...

at most...this would be more fantasy than anything else...if CA were to start a third 4-year university system similar to the TX Tech University System it would be a Cal Poly university system...granted that there is a inclination and/or ability to do so...plus about five institutions willing to participate in the Cal Poly U system...the California State University system has 23 campuses so the CSU system may be able to spare a few CSUs here and there...the primary focus of the California Polytechnic State University System would be Science, Technology, Engineering, & Mathematics (STEM) majors...

California Polytechnic State University System (proposed)
Cal Poly San Louis Obispo
Cal Poly Pomona
Cal Poly Monterrey Bay (CSU Monterrey Bay)
Cal Poly Sonoma (Sonoma State University)
Cal Poly Humboldt (Humboldt State University)

these universities have similar student population size (under 10K enrollment)...and similar geographic location in CA...either being located in the western or coastal region of CA...

California State University
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...y#Campuses

[Image: File:BigWestLocations.png]
Big West Conference map
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_West_C...ations.png

[Image: File:CCAA_map_-_Current_members.svg]
California Collegiate Athletic Association map
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...embers.svg
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2021 03:26 PM by joeben69.)
02-21-2021 03:25 PM
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DawgNBama Online
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Post: #36
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-21-2021 09:53 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 05:34 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 04:26 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas has a really wonky set up but I don’t think the CA system is an improvement.

The UC schools are top notch but there aren’t enough seats to accommodate all the qualified CA kids, plus they are competing with out-of-state and international candidates.

The Cal St schools meanwhile have an academic ceiling that they can’t rise above.

The state needs a third system where select Cal St schools can exist in a happy medium between the two

It sounds to me like you''re talking about the Cal Poly schools themselves. Many people here aren't even aware that the Cal Polies are in the CSU system, and hold them in high regard. Add PhD options to them and maybe add 2-3 more campuses from the CSU system and call it done.

CA does have a third system...it's the CA Community College System...
California Community Colleges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...y_Colleges

the CA Community College System also has it's own athletic association that most of the community colleges participate in...The California Community College Athletic Association (CCCAA)...
California Community College Athletic Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...ssociation

if the reference is to a third 4-year system then a Cal Poly stand alone system would be more to the point...CA would have the University of CA System (UC), CA State University System (CSU), and the CA Polytechnic State University System (CPSU)...it would be similar to how TX has the University of TX System, TX State University System, and the TX Tech University System...

this would be...for the sake of conversation...a cool proposal...

Texas have 4 with the Texas A&M system as well.

Since CalTech is already a private, the CalPoly schools can't be shorten to Cal Tech system.

One of the biggest concerns for California education leadership of both the UC and CSU systems of California high school students are leaving the state in droves to attend colleges and universities out of state. So, could the California schools break down to a 4 system?

UC
CSU
CalPoly
Cal A&M?

There are some CC schools that are large enough in student enrollment that could become a 4 year school in areas that there is 4 year schools are at. You have like 115 community colleges that could help sereved if they become 4 year. Some could become CSU while others could be part of the Cal Poly.

East Los Angeles College could become a 4 year and be Cal Poly Los Angeles.
Santa Monico College could be one. Number 2 behind East LA College for students enrolled.
Santa Ana College is third.
Pasadena College is a good place to add a 4 year.
De Anza is a top notch JC to be a 4 year.
Santa Rosa JC always have history in college sports with NCAA schools. I think they are the only school that got a waiver from the NCAA D1 to compete in Archery on the west coast. I know they played football on the west coast against UCLA, Saint Mary's and them in the old days. I think they will be the number 1 school that can go to 4 year, and be one of the CSU or Cal Poly branch.
Sierra College is in the northern part of the state.
Antelope Valley and Ventura are two areas that do not have a 4 year public.
Butte College
College of the Sequoias
San Mateo
College of the Desert
Shasta in Redding California just south of the border of Oregon on Interstate 5.
Moreno Valley
Oxnard
Yuba
Redwoods
Palo Verde in Needles California
Palo Verde in Blythe California
Barstow (could served the military personal from the base in the area. There is also Park University which is in NAIA that serves the military base there, and that Park also serves Little Rock Air Force base here.)
Lake Tahoe

We need to look at how the state of California is growing in population, but the campuses at the large schools tend to be overgrown, but in most cases the male students at some campuses are less than the females.
California does have an A&M, but it is part of the UC system: UC-Davis. I think Davis likes being a part of the UC system though.

JoeBen, how about this:

Cal Poly System (STEM focused)

Cal Poly SLO
Cal Poly SD (old San Diego State)
Cal Poly Fresno (old Fresno State)
Cal Poly South Bay (merge SJSU with CSU Monterey Bay)
Cal Poly Humboldt
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 03:47 AM by DawgNBama.)
02-22-2021 03:37 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-20-2021 08:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 07:25 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  1. Reduce the number of seats for PRC students in the UC system by 40,000
-- open these up for fully qualified California students

The total number of non-US students at UC campuses is about 41,000. (source) You want to eliminate 98% of the non-US students?

Also, whatever percentage you eliminate, if you replace those places one-for-one with California residents paying California resident tuition -- and getting financial aid -- then you're creating a significant revenue shortfall that you have to replace somehow.


What they need to do is raise tuition dramatically for those non-US students. Use them as a revenue generator. Then use the revenue to build more capacity for in-state students.
02-22-2021 11:33 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-22-2021 11:33 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 08:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 07:25 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  1. Reduce the number of seats for PRC students in the UC system by 40,000
-- open these up for fully qualified California students

The total number of non-US students at UC campuses is about 41,000. (source) You want to eliminate 98% of the non-US students?

Also, whatever percentage you eliminate, if you replace those places one-for-one with California residents paying California resident tuition -- and getting financial aid -- then you're creating a significant revenue shortfall that you have to replace somehow.


What they need to do is raise tuition dramatically for those non-US students. Use them as a revenue generator. Then use the revenue to build more capacity for in-state students.

They could raise non-US tuition somewhat. Right now UC nonresident tuition is about 44,000; at some other states' top public universities it's over 50,000. If there was a non-US tuition of, say, 65,000, that could raise money. Of course if you went really high, like 100,000, those overseas students would just go elsewhere.

To increase undergraduate capacity significantly, the state would need to open another UC campus and expand the only two that have room for significant growth, Riverside and Merced.
02-22-2021 12:50 PM
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joeben69 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
(02-22-2021 03:37 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 09:53 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 05:34 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 04:26 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(02-20-2021 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Texas has a really wonky set up but I don’t think the CA system is an improvement.

The UC schools are top notch but there aren’t enough seats to accommodate all the qualified CA kids, plus they are competing with out-of-state and international candidates.

The Cal St schools meanwhile have an academic ceiling that they can’t rise above.

The state needs a third system where select Cal St schools can exist in a happy medium between the two

It sounds to me like you''re talking about the Cal Poly schools themselves. Many people here aren't even aware that the Cal Polies are in the CSU system, and hold them in high regard. Add PhD options to them and maybe add 2-3 more campuses from the CSU system and call it done.

CA does have a third system...it's the CA Community College System...
California Community Colleges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...y_Colleges

the CA Community College System also has it's own athletic association that most of the community colleges participate in...The California Community College Athletic Association (CCCAA)...
California Community College Athletic Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...ssociation

if the reference is to a third 4-year system then a Cal Poly stand alone system would be more to the point...CA would have the University of CA System (UC), CA State University System (CSU), and the CA Polytechnic State University System (CPSU)...it would be similar to how TX has the University of TX System, TX State University System, and the TX Tech University System...

this would be...for the sake of conversation...a cool proposal...

Texas have 4 with the Texas A&M system as well.

Since CalTech is already a private, the CalPoly schools can't be shorten to Cal Tech system.

One of the biggest concerns for California education leadership of both the UC and CSU systems of California high school students are leaving the state in droves to attend colleges and universities out of state. So, could the California schools break down to a 4 system?

UC
CSU
CalPoly
Cal A&M?

There are some CC schools that are large enough in student enrollment that could become a 4 year school in areas that there is 4 year schools are at. You have like 115 community colleges that could help sereved if they become 4 year. Some could become CSU while others could be part of the Cal Poly.

East Los Angeles College could become a 4 year and be Cal Poly Los Angeles.
Santa Monico College could be one. Number 2 behind East LA College for students enrolled.
Santa Ana College is third.
Pasadena College is a good place to add a 4 year.
De Anza is a top notch JC to be a 4 year.
Santa Rosa JC always have history in college sports with NCAA schools. I think they are the only school that got a waiver from the NCAA D1 to compete in Archery on the west coast. I know they played football on the west coast against UCLA, Saint Mary's and them in the old days. I think they will be the number 1 school that can go to 4 year, and be one of the CSU or Cal Poly branch.
Sierra College is in the northern part of the state.
Antelope Valley and Ventura are two areas that do not have a 4 year public.
Butte College
College of the Sequoias
San Mateo
College of the Desert
Shasta in Redding California just south of the border of Oregon on Interstate 5.
Moreno Valley
Oxnard
Yuba
Redwoods
Palo Verde in Needles California
Palo Verde in Blythe California
Barstow (could served the military personal from the base in the area. There is also Park University which is in NAIA that serves the military base there, and that Park also serves Little Rock Air Force base here.)
Lake Tahoe

We need to look at how the state of California is growing in population, but the campuses at the large schools tend to be overgrown, but in most cases the male students at some campuses are less than the females.
California does have an A&M, but it is part of the UC system: UC-Davis. I think Davis likes being a part of the UC system though.

JoeBen, how about this:

Cal Poly System (STEM focused)

Cal Poly SLO
Cal Poly SD (old San Diego State)
Cal Poly Fresno (old Fresno State)
Cal Poly South Bay (merge SJSU with CSU Monterey Bay)
Cal Poly Humboldt

thanks DawgNBama for your post about UC Davis and CA A&M...but i did post in a reply to DavidSt posted 02/21/21 02:21 PM basically stating the same thing...
"UC Davis is the de facto CA A&M...it's part of the University of CA System...it has no interest in breaking away and starting a stand alone CA A&M System..."

Cal Poly System (STEM focused)

Cal Poly SLO
Cal Poly SD (old San Diego State)*
Cal Poly Fresno (old Fresno State)*
Cal Poly South Bay (merge SJSU with CSU Monterey Bay)*
Cal Poly Humboldt

SDSU, FSU, & SJSU have similar student population size (over 25K enrollment [Fall 2020])...athletic affiliation (Mountain West Conference)...and are classified as impacted campuses...

California State University
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...y#Campuses

Mountain West Conference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_W...er_schools

Impacted Undergraduate Majors and Campuses, 2021-22
https://www2.calstate.edu/attend/degrees...grees.aspx

SDSU - 35,578 (Fall 2020)
San Diego State University
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_...University
"Fall Term Student Enrollment". The California State University Institutional Research and Analyses. Retrieved December 14, 2020.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_...rollment-4

FSU - 25,341 (Fall 2020)
California State University, Fresno
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...ty,_Fresno
"Fall Term Student Enrollment". The California State University Institutional Research and Analyses. Archived from the original on December 2, 2019. Retrieved November 24, 2020.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...rollment-3

SJSU - 33,025 (Fall 2020)
San Jose State University
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose_State_University
"Fall Term Student Enrollment". The California State University Institutional Research and Analyses. Retrieved December 20, 2020.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose_S...rollment-8

the profile of the Cal Poly State U (CPSU) system i was thinking of would emphasizes smaller student population size (under 10K enrollment)...classified as non-impacted campus...and are CSU campuses in need of an enrollment boost...having a CPSU designation would be promotion point to grow student enrollment...

Cal Poly Monterrey Bay (CSU Monterrey Bay) - 6,871 (Fall 2020)
Cal Poly Sonoma (Sonoma State University) - 7,807 (Fall 2020)
Cal Poly Humboldt (Humboldt State University) - 6,431 (Fall 2020)

CPSU campuses would have similar geographic location in CA...either being located in the western or coastal region of CA...Humboldt State University, Sonoma State University, & CSU Monterrey Bay fit the geographic profile...

plus Sonoma State, CSU Monterrey Bay, and Humboldt State have the same athletic affiliation (California Collegiate Athletic Association)...
02-22-2021 02:50 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Humbolt State University wants to become a 3rd Cal Poly
Redding, California is growing. The town is now over 91,000 in population, but the Metro is like over 100,000 now. The town have their own tv stations, radio, and newspaper. The most expensive places to live are in the big populated areas in California. Places like Redding, Needles and Blythe are cheaper. I used to lived in California in the LA area and on the California side of the Colorado river on the outside of Parker. The rent was cheaper on the eastern part of the state of California than on the west coast. Could buy stuff in Blythe cheaper than in the LA area. Blythe, Needles, Redding, west of Lake Havasu City and all those cities not connected with San Diego, LA and San Francisco are growing while the major cities are losing population. Anything along the Colorado river will see a rise in population.
Turning Shasta College into a Cal. Poly might work. Could renamed it to Cal. Poly-Redding. They could join the NAIA and put football in with Southern Oregon. That would be a bus ride. UC-Davis, Cal. Poly, Cal. Poly Pomona, and some others were junior colleges.
02-22-2021 03:37 PM
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