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UCONN how is the BE?
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #21
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
Been great so far, limitations of this specific season considered. Only going to get better with fans in the building. Got most of our long-term rivals back and the best conference tournament in college sports.

I've said this before, but the current iteration of the conference is the truest to the original mission of the Big East since they were fielding the original lineup (counting Nova and Pitt, which I think is silly if you don't). Long, winding road to get there, but the net result is they lost three teams and added five.
02-18-2021 10:13 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #22
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 10:07 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Syracuse now has as fellow members of the ACC and as former Big East foes:

Boston College
Pitt
Notre Dame
Louisville
Miami
Virginia Tech

Syracuse would have — were it to hypothetically move to the Big East — as former BE foes:

Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Georgetown
UConn
Marquette
DePaul

I can see how any fair and reasonable person would call that a toss-up. However, I might give a very slight edge to the Big East as it relates to what would specifically be ideal for Syracuse men's hoops related to those two very specific league groupings.

I'll let Syracuse fans speak for themselves, but as a Georgetown fan, I can say unequivocally that if you gave me these two lists of schools (with Syracuse substituted in for Georgetown), and considering hoops only, I would vastly prefer the Big East configuration rather than the ACC configuration. Not only are there more ex-Big East schools in the Big East list, there are more deep-rival schools, as most of the ACC schools are ones that joined the Big East much later. Pitt and BC are the only ACC schools I would (and in fact do) miss to any extent at all, whereas only Marquette and DePaul am I indifferent to on the Big East list. The Big East list otherwise consists of all of Georgetown's closest historical rivals.

Of course I understand Syracuse is differently situated, as a football school they have to be in a Power football conference, that's just non-negotiable. But regarding hoops only ....
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021 10:43 AM by quo vadis.)
02-18-2021 10:20 AM
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panite Offline
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Post: #23
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-17-2021 08:05 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I do miss it especially basketball. You huskies having a great time back home? I wish SU could play more BE teams lol. I don’t really enjoy games against NCSU or UVA ?

Do you enjoy seeing North Carolina and Duke in Syracuse every other year? 03-melodramatic I know I would along with UVA. Besides you still get to schedule old BE rivals BC, Pitt, VT, L'Ville, ND, and Miami. I'm sure if Syracuse would reach out to UConn, Nova, and G'Town, along with the other current BE schools some sort of OOC rotation could take place putting Syracuse in the best of both worlds. You might have to give up some of that early stay at home cupcake schedule though. It's kind of like Florida football never leaving the state of Florida OOC until the SEC schedule kicks in until recently. 04-cheers
02-18-2021 10:31 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #24
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 10:31 AM)panite Wrote:  Besides you still get to schedule old BE rivals BC, Pitt, VT, L'Ville, ND, and Miami.

Not to speak for Syracuse fans (I mean, like what you like, doesn't matter to me) but only Pitt would really count as a "Big East rival". VT and Louisville were both short-timers who were just passing through and BC/Miami/ND basketball never really did too much of note on a sustained basis. Pitt had their moments though.

Remains funny to me when people talk nostalgic about the "Old Big East" and then name schools that spent a single-digit number of years in the conference during it's third major era.
02-18-2021 10:43 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #25
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 10:43 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(02-18-2021 10:31 AM)panite Wrote:  Besides you still get to schedule old BE rivals BC, Pitt, VT, L'Ville, ND, and Miami.

Not to speak for Syracuse fans (I mean, like what you like, doesn't matter to me) but only Pitt would really count as a "Big East rival". VT and Louisville were both short-timers who were just passing through and BC/Miami/ND basketball never really did too much of note on a sustained basis. Pitt had their moments though.

Remains funny to me when people talk nostalgic about the "Old Big East" and then name schools that spent a single-digit number of years in the conference during it's third major era.

Yes, as a Georgetown fan and considering only hoops, other than Syracuse, who is missed greatly, the only ACC (or B1G and Big 12) "ex-Big East" teams I wish were still in the Big East are Pitt and BC, and they are far less important than Syracuse. The rest, as you say, were just never part of the deep fabric of the conference. They were fine as transient visitors, but nothing has been lost by their absence.

Now if we are talking football, that has a different history and trajectory. On the football side, schools like Miami and VT and WVU and Rutgers were part of that original 1990s crew, so they are part of the football "Old Big East".
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021 10:55 AM by quo vadis.)
02-18-2021 10:49 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #26
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 10:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-18-2021 10:07 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Syracuse now has as fellow members of the ACC and as former Big East foes:

Boston College
Pitt
Notre Dame
Louisville
Miami
Virginia Tech

Syracuse would have — were it to hypothetically move to the Big East — as former BE foes:

Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Georgetown
UConn
Marquette
DePaul

I can see how any fair and reasonable person would call that a toss-up. However, I might give a very slight edge to the Big East as it relates to what would specifically be ideal for Syracuse men's hoops related to those two very specific league groupings.

I'll let Syracuse fans speak for themselves, but as a Georgetown fan, I can say unequivocally that if you gave me these two lists of schools (with Syracuse substituted in for Georgetown), and considering hoops only, I would vastly prefer the Big East configuration rather than the ACC configuration. Not only are there more ex-Big East schools in the Big East list, there are more deep-rival schools, as most of the ACC schools are ones that joined the Big East much later. Pitt and BC are the only ACC schools I would (and in fact do) miss to any extent at all, whereas only Marquette and DePaul am I indifferent to on the Big East list. The Big East list otherwise consists of all of Georgetown's closest historical rivals.


Fair point. That's why I used "can see why" ... as opposed to a phrasing such as "all reasonable fans would consider it a toss-up."

The bottom line, and this is just my opinion, I would rather be in Syracuse's position than in UConn's position. Syracuse is in an all-sports league with Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Notre Dame, Louisville, Pittsburgh and NC State (seven of the all-time top 50 winningest programs in college men's hoops history). In contrast, UConn is a member of a league with four of the top 50 (St. John's, Nova, Georgetown and Marquette). The numbers work better for Cuse. Rivalries can unfold over time and if the ACC stays together (a major "if"), Syracuse could be fine as it creates new rivalries.

And UConn is in a strong place, too. The Big East remains powerful in men's hoops (I watched some of the Hall vs. DePaul game last night) and the football indy route might actually work well.
02-18-2021 10:53 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #27
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 09:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 08:05 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I do miss it especially basketball. You huskies having a great time back home? I wish SU could play more BE teams lol. I don’t really enjoy games against NCSU or UVA ?

Yes, Syracuse hoops belongs in the Big East. IMO, Ideally, Syracuse could have its hoops in the Big East and everything else in the ACC. But I don't think the ACC would go for that, LOL, and football does drive the bus.

It's unfortunate.

07-coffee3

I agree but that train left the station

There is no way Syracuse would ever go back even if it was all sports but Football. Plus it isn't the old Big East or even the new, old 2005 Big East. Syracuse has no connections to Xavier, Butler and Creighton and it would be like getting back with your old girlfriend who is still sorta hot but has a ton of emotional issues and some extra new distant cousins who kinda hang out with her now and don't like you around.
02-18-2021 11:05 AM
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Post: #28
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 09:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 08:05 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I do miss it especially basketball. You huskies having a great time back home? I wish SU could play more BE teams lol. I don’t really enjoy games against NCSU or UVA ?

Yes, Syracuse hoops belongs in the Big East. IMO, Ideally, Syracuse could have its hoops in the Big East and everything else in the ACC. But I don't think the ACC would go for that, LOL, and football does drive the bus.

It's unfortunate.

07-coffee3

The question is why would either conference go for that?
02-18-2021 11:10 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #29
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 11:10 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(02-18-2021 09:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 08:05 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I do miss it especially basketball. You huskies having a great time back home? I wish SU could play more BE teams lol. I don’t really enjoy games against NCSU or UVA ?

Yes, Syracuse hoops belongs in the Big East. IMO, Ideally, Syracuse could have its hoops in the Big East and everything else in the ACC. But I don't think the ACC would go for that, LOL, and football does drive the bus.

It's unfortunate.

07-coffee3

The question is why would either conference go for that?

Eh, purely pretend-land stuff at this point, but Syracuse was enough of the original fabric of the conference that if they had some sort of football situation worked out and genuinely wanted back in, the Big East would make it work with an onerous exit fee. If they stick around long term great, and if not everyone gets their basketball facilities renovated for free.

The money is what it is though, and both sides have moved on. You'll probably see some OOC scheduling continue, but that'll be the extent of it.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021 11:22 AM by Bogg.)
02-18-2021 11:18 AM
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BearcatJerry Online
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Post: #30
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 11:18 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(02-18-2021 11:10 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(02-18-2021 09:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 08:05 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I do miss it especially basketball. You huskies having a great time back home? I wish SU could play more BE teams lol. I don’t really enjoy games against NCSU or UVA ?

Yes, Syracuse hoops belongs in the Big East. IMO, Ideally, Syracuse could have its hoops in the Big East and everything else in the ACC. But I don't think the ACC would go for that, LOL, and football does drive the bus.

It's unfortunate.

07-coffee3

The question is why would either conference go for that?

Eh, purely pretend-land stuff at this point, but if Syracuse was enough of the original fabric of the conference that if they had some sort of football situation worked out and genuinely wanted back in, the Big East would make it work with an onerous exit fee. If they stick around long term great, and if not everyone gets their basketball facilities renovated for free.

The money is what it is though, and both sides have moved on. You'll probably see some OOC scheduling continue, but that'll be the extent of it.

The scenario Quo put forth was not "Syracuse works something out with their football..." but that Syracuse moves their "Basketball" to the Big East and keeps "everything else" in the ACC. Which, I say, wouldn't work for either the ACC nor the Big East.

Yes, I could well see a "UConn type" agreement where Syracuse goes FB-Indy and and rejoins the Big East as a conference mate. Syracuse actually is a better "Institutional Fit" for the Big East than UConn is. That being said, I cannot really imagine Syracuse DOING that. So, while I'm sure the Big East would welcome Syracuse back, I don't think there's a realistic chance of Syracuse going down that road.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021 11:27 AM by BearcatJerry.)
02-18-2021 11:26 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #31
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 11:10 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(02-18-2021 09:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 08:05 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I do miss it especially basketball. You huskies having a great time back home? I wish SU could play more BE teams lol. I don’t really enjoy games against NCSU or UVA ?

Yes, Syracuse hoops belongs in the Big East. IMO, Ideally, Syracuse could have its hoops in the Big East and everything else in the ACC. But I don't think the ACC would go for that, LOL, and football does drive the bus.

It's unfortunate.

07-coffee3

The question is why would either conference go for that?

I think the Big East would go for that just fine. Getting Syracuse hoops back would be awesome.
02-18-2021 11:36 AM
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BearcatJerry Online
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Post: #32
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
The one thing about the "New" Big East (the current conference, whatever you want to call it), is that--until they added UConn, and apart from UConn--is that it was a highly homogeneous conference. All the member schools were of similar size, mission, and governance: private, parochial schools. Athletically, all the "New" Big East members had Basketball as their highest priority sport...Villanova has FB at the FCS level, Butler and Georgetown have non-scholarship FB squads...so the Conference is able to focus promoting that mission.

How UConn fares in the Conference will be largely how well UConn, as a dis-similar institution (a large, State/Public) can find their footing. I think that clearly the Big East is a superior conference to the AAC, so UConn fans have to be happy that they moved back up in Conferences. But the fact is still there that UConn is an odd fit for the rest of the Big East Conference.
02-18-2021 11:39 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #33
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 11:26 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  The scenario Quo put forth was not "Syracuse works something out with their football..." but that Syracuse moves their "Basketball" to the Big East and keeps "everything else" in the ACC. Which, I say, wouldn't work for either the ACC nor the Big East.

Yes, I could well see a "UConn type" agreement where Syracuse goes FB-Indy and and rejoins the Big East as a conference mate. Syracuse actually is a better "Institutional Fit" for the Big East than UConn is. That being said, I cannot really imagine Syracuse DOING that. So, while I'm sure the Big East would welcome Syracuse back, I don't think there's a realistic chance of Syracuse going down that road.

Basketball-only memberships aren't allowed, so I figured the reasonable interpretation of that was "Big East olympics/ACC football". Put all the other stuff aside (I really don't feel like doing the flag waving and chest thumping) and Syracuse isn't jeopardizing their access to the ACC money so it isn't happening. On the Big East side of things...I mean, they clearly don't need Cuse, but they'd be nice to have. If they were asking something would get worked out.
02-18-2021 11:44 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 11:39 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  The one thing about the "New" Big East (the current conference, whatever you want to call it), is that--until they added UConn, and apart from UConn--is that it was a highly homogeneous conference. All the member schools were of similar size, mission, and governance: private, parochial schools. Athletically, all the "New" Big East members had Basketball as their highest priority sport...Villanova has FB at the FCS level, Butler and Georgetown have non-scholarship FB squads...so the Conference is able to focus promoting that mission.

How UConn fares in the Conference will be largely how well UConn, as a dis-similar institution (a large, State/Public) can find their footing. I think that clearly the Big East is a superior conference to the AAC, so UConn fans have to be happy that they moved back up in Conferences. But the fact is still there that UConn is an odd fit for the rest of the Big East Conference.

Yes and no. When the C7 looked to reform the Big East, they definitely added like-minded members in Butler, Creighton and Xavier. They were Private (Jesuit in the case of Creighton/Xavier), basketball-first schools, in metropolitan areas, similar enrollments, academic profiles, etc. The new BE 10 were, and still are, a great collective fit.

Adding UConn really hasn't changed a whole lot of that mission. It is an elite-level men's (and women's) basketball program. It has a strong presence in the NY-market, where the Big East is rooted. It has long histories with Georgetown, Villanova, Providence, St. John's and Seton Hall. It had a brief affiliation with Marquette and DePaul. Football is negligible because it is literally not acknowledged or sponsored by the Big East. UConn has the largest enrollment, but DePaul and St. John's also have 20k+ enrollments as well, so it is not a glaring difference. UConn is middle-of-the-pack in endowments and is in the upper grouping of academics.

So, even as a Public school (and the only one), it really hasn't changed the core values and/or stats of the present Big East membership.
02-18-2021 11:53 AM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #35
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 11:44 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(02-18-2021 11:26 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  The scenario Quo put forth was not "Syracuse works something out with their football..." but that Syracuse moves their "Basketball" to the Big East and keeps "everything else" in the ACC. Which, I say, wouldn't work for either the ACC nor the Big East.

Yes, I could well see a "UConn type" agreement where Syracuse goes FB-Indy and and rejoins the Big East as a conference mate. Syracuse actually is a better "Institutional Fit" for the Big East than UConn is. That being said, I cannot really imagine Syracuse DOING that. So, while I'm sure the Big East would welcome Syracuse back, I don't think there's a realistic chance of Syracuse going down that road.

Basketball-only memberships aren't allowed, so I figured the reasonable interpretation of that was "Big East olympics/ACC football". Put all the other stuff aside (I really don't feel like doing the flag waving and chest thumping) and Syracuse isn't jeopardizing their access to the ACC money so it isn't happening. On the Big East side of things...I mean, they clearly don't need Cuse, but they'd be nice to have. If they were asking something would get worked out.

I don't see why a basketball-only membership wouldn't be "allowed", many schools are affiliate members in a single sport when their primary conference doesn't sponsor the sport. Notre Dame's a Big Ten member in ice hockey only. Conferences can make any rules that they want. Now would they? If Syracuse said to the ACC we want to be in the ACC in football only and I'm the ACC, I'd say "What, is our men's basketball not good enough for you? Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, and Louisville aren't good enough for you? Is travel the issue? You'd rather go to Creighton instead?"
02-18-2021 11:57 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #36
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 11:57 AM)schmolik Wrote:  
(02-18-2021 11:44 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(02-18-2021 11:26 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  The scenario Quo put forth was not "Syracuse works something out with their football..." but that Syracuse moves their "Basketball" to the Big East and keeps "everything else" in the ACC. Which, I say, wouldn't work for either the ACC nor the Big East.

Yes, I could well see a "UConn type" agreement where Syracuse goes FB-Indy and and rejoins the Big East as a conference mate. Syracuse actually is a better "Institutional Fit" for the Big East than UConn is. That being said, I cannot really imagine Syracuse DOING that. So, while I'm sure the Big East would welcome Syracuse back, I don't think there's a realistic chance of Syracuse going down that road.

Basketball-only memberships aren't allowed, so I figured the reasonable interpretation of that was "Big East olympics/ACC football". Put all the other stuff aside (I really don't feel like doing the flag waving and chest thumping) and Syracuse isn't jeopardizing their access to the ACC money so it isn't happening. On the Big East side of things...I mean, they clearly don't need Cuse, but they'd be nice to have. If they were asking something would get worked out.

I don't see why a basketball-only membership wouldn't be "allowed", many schools are affiliate members in a single sport when their primary conference doesn't sponsor the sport. Notre Dame's a Big Ten member in ice hockey only. Conferences can make any rules that they want. Now would they? If Syracuse said to the ACC we want to be in the ACC in football only and I'm the ACC, I'd say "What, is our men's basketball not good enough for you? Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, and Louisville aren't good enough for you? Is travel the issue? You'd rather go to Creighton instead?"

Basketball-only memberships are not allowed by the NCAA. Syracuse could (theoretically) be a football affiliate somewhere if they wanted, but wherever they park their basketball is where they have to park their other olympic sports that their basketball conference sponsors.
02-18-2021 12:02 PM
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HartfordHusky Offline
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Post: #37
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
From a hoops perspective, it's been great. It feels right, even playing against the newer schools. Playing in a conference that is regarded amongst the best in college basketball has certainly been a welcome change. I've enjoyed the Fox coverage as well. It seems pretty clear that this was the best move available for UConn basketball.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021 12:07 PM by HartfordHusky.)
02-18-2021 12:06 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #38
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 11:44 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(02-18-2021 11:26 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  The scenario Quo put forth was not "Syracuse works something out with their football..." but that Syracuse moves their "Basketball" to the Big East and keeps "everything else" in the ACC. Which, I say, wouldn't work for either the ACC nor the Big East.

Yes, I could well see a "UConn type" agreement where Syracuse goes FB-Indy and and rejoins the Big East as a conference mate. Syracuse actually is a better "Institutional Fit" for the Big East than UConn is. That being said, I cannot really imagine Syracuse DOING that. So, while I'm sure the Big East would welcome Syracuse back, I don't think there's a realistic chance of Syracuse going down that road.

Basketball-only memberships aren't allowed, so I figured the reasonable interpretation of that was "Big East olympics/ACC football". Put all the other stuff aside (I really don't feel like doing the flag waving and chest thumping) and Syracuse isn't jeopardizing their access to the ACC money so it isn't happening. On the Big East side of things...I mean, they clearly don't need Cuse, but they'd be nice to have. If they were asking something would get worked out.

Yup...money is the huge mover. Sadly, even if we play UConn again in hoops it won't be the same...even if both schools are in the Top 10. The biggest loser in this whole thing is NYC Metro area Cuse fans. As a southern based Cuse fan I love the ACC for driveable games and the ability to run into more ACC fans in Florida. I do see an occasional UConn, Nova, Georgetown and rarely does a SJU, Xavier, etc... pop up but the league overall has a very small footprint fan wise. Most being city based schools have loyal followings in the metro they are located at. UConn and Nova, IMHO have the biggest fan base geographic diversity of all the schools. Georgetown obviously does too, but many of their fans have gone in hiding.

That said: I'd love to play Georgetown every year and rotate Nova, SJU and UConn through on a regular basis. I'm not the typical Cuse fan as I think we need to play UConn regularly in football too. Put them opposite BC with home n homes as much as possible. However, I like a 1-1-1 schedule. One at each home and one neutral game at Yankee Stadium in early November. If UConn wants a paycheck game, I'm not sure Cuse would want to pay the $$$.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021 01:38 PM by TexanMark.)
02-18-2021 01:29 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #39
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
Weighing the Big East vs ACC debate from the Syracuse perspective:

The Big East has 6 of your old historic conference mates

The ACC has 2 from “the old neighborhood” (Pitt and BC) plus some others that were picked up along the way (Miami, VT, ND, Louisville) but there’s also basketball greats UNC and Duke.

Both provide excellent conference homes but what the ACC had that the Big East lacks is football revenue and those football tv dollars are the lifeblood of a collegiate athletic program.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021 03:51 PM by Fighting Muskie.)
02-18-2021 02:36 PM
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Post: #40
RE: UCONN how is the BE?
(02-18-2021 11:39 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  The one thing about the "New" Big East (the current conference, whatever you want to call it), is that--until they added UConn, and apart from UConn--is that it was a highly homogeneous conference. All the member schools were of similar size, mission, and governance: private, parochial schools. Athletically, all the "New" Big East members had Basketball as their highest priority sport...Villanova has FB at the FCS level, Butler and Georgetown have non-scholarship FB squads...so the Conference is able to focus promoting that mission.

How UConn fares in the Conference will be largely how well UConn, as a dis-similar institution (a large, State/Public) can find their footing. I think that clearly the Big East is a superior conference to the AAC, so UConn fans have to be happy that they moved back up in Conferences. But the fact is still there that UConn is an odd fit for the rest of the Big East Conference.

As a fan of "old" Big East hoops, I don't think the Big East views UConn as an odd fit. To the contrary they are an original Big East hoops team and have long histories with the core Big East members. They really fit like a glove because of that 30+ year shared history before the split.

UConn returning was like welcoming back a Prodigal Son. Still a full-fledged member of the family despite the sojourn. Syracuse would be too, but we know they aren't coming back.

That said, it is true that UConn has longer-term goals that do not involve the Big East. Unlike all other Big East schools, the Big East is not their "destination" conference. Surely, they have a long-run goal of building up football to get invited to a Power league like Syracuse and Pitt did. If that day comes we know they will leave, but we will enjoy them while they last with us.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021 03:14 PM by quo vadis.)
02-18-2021 03:13 PM
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