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Tarleton vs NMSU Football
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wisdomgymrat Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
Someone explain the academic debt to be paid off until 2026
02-22-2021 10:26 AM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 10:26 AM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Someone explain the academic debt to be paid off until 2026

The athletic department was given institutional funds to aid in the move to the WAC (about $10M). The NM legislature saw that and said "you can't do that" and made the athletic department pay it back to the NMSU general fund. We were paying $1M+ a year to pay off the debt. We "refinanced" a couple years ago, cutting our payments in half, but lengthening the time to pay off the debt. We now pay about $500k a year towards the debt. But we just added several million to the debt because of covid, so 2026 now looks like a pipe dream.

BTW, the UNM athletic department has been given millions and millions of dollars from institutional funds and has run a budget deficit of millions of dollars in the last 10 years and the NM legislature not only allows it, they are not requiring UNM to pay back the money. UNM is a much larger school than NMSU so a lot of NM politicians are UNM grads and ABQ is much closer to Santa Fe than Las Cruces. The hypocrisy is shameless and blatant.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 10:35 AM by PojoaquePosse.)
02-22-2021 10:32 AM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 10:25 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  NMSU is not going to go FCS. Our peers and 2 biggest rivals are UNM and UTEP. They play FBS and they stink as well. When we win 2-3 games every year, at least one of those is usually against UNM/UTEP. They are the only home game where we fill the stands. That all goes away at FCS. And the body bag games are huge for our Athletic Department bottom line.

NMSU is a basketball school. Always has been, always will be. NM is a basketball state. We live and die with basketball. That's our bread and butter. I realize that football is the cash cow and most popular sport in all of America. But in NM, basketball is king.

Explaining it is a hopeless endeavor. They just don't get it. Its like a bus full of back seat ad's. The same people will continue saying "why doesn't NMSU just..."

I wish Martin would have bolted after the bowl year so he'd have to give us money like Weir lol. Although the Weir money probably gets counted separately.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 10:52 AM by Todor.)
02-22-2021 10:40 AM
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OscarWildeCat Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 10:40 AM)Todor Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:25 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  NMSU is not going to go FCS. Our peers and 2 biggest rivals are UNM and UTEP. They play FBS and they stink as well. When we win 2-3 games every year, at least one of those is usually against UNM/UTEP. They are the only home game where we fill the stands. That all goes away at FCS. And the body bag games are huge for our Athletic Department bottom line.

NMSU is a basketball school. Always has been, always will be. NM is a basketball state. We live and die with basketball. That's our bread and butter. I realize that football is the cash cow and most popular sport in all of America. But in NM, basketball is king.

Explaining it is a hopeless endeavor. They just don't get it. Its like a bus full of back seat ad's. The same people will continue saying "why doesn't NMSU just..."

I wish Martin would have bolted after the bowl year so he'd have to give us money like Weir lol. Although the Weir money probably gets counted separately.

Nah, we get it. It just doesn’t excite some of us about the prospect of joining you in a bottom feeder FBS conference so we can all take one for the team by collecting bazillions of dollars for body bag games to keep the athletic department afloat.
02-22-2021 11:10 AM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-21-2021 08:09 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  Nice classy showing for Tarleton Athletics. I just hope that some day high & mighty nmsu can accept us as a peer institution.

Being a peer institution has nothing to do with football. No one is being high and mighty. Several other TSU and SLC posters understand the notion of peer institutions.

Enjoy your win and gloat away. NMSU fans are furious at our showing but no one is surprised or shocked we lost.
02-22-2021 12:10 PM
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Vulpes88 Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 12:10 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:09 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  Nice classy showing for Tarleton Athletics. I just hope that some day high & mighty nmsu can accept us as a peer institution.

Being a peer institution has nothing to do with football. No one is being high and mighty. Several other TSU and SLC posters understand the notion of peer institutions.

Enjoy your win and gloat away. NMSU fans are furious at our showing but no one is surprised or shocked we lost.

Don't take the bait. You're better than that, I assume anyway.
02-22-2021 12:17 PM
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OscarWildeCat Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 09:57 AM)Trod0 Wrote:  Thanks for the embarrassment Tarleton. Hopefully this game gets us a new coach

Just from reading comments y’all have made it seems problems go beyond coaching staff and straight to budget.
02-22-2021 12:33 PM
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OscarWildeCat Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 12:17 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 12:10 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:09 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  Nice classy showing for Tarleton Athletics. I just hope that some day high & mighty nmsu can accept us as a peer institution.

Being a peer institution has nothing to do with football. No one is being high and mighty. Several other TSU and SLC posters understand the notion of peer institutions.

Enjoy your win and gloat away. NMSU fans are furious at our showing but no one is surprised or shocked we lost.

Don't take the bait. You're better than that, I assume anyway.

Yup, he’s a reasonable guy.
02-22-2021 12:37 PM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #109
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 12:33 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 09:57 AM)Trod0 Wrote:  Thanks for the embarrassment Tarleton. Hopefully this game gets us a new coach

Just from reading comments y’all have made it seems problems go beyond coaching staff and straight to budget.

It's all of that and more. No money. Poor coaching. Poor history of success. The fact that the fan base is passionate about BB but lackluster in their support of FB (myself included). I won't bore you with all the gory details, but NMSU FB is in very, very bad shape and has been for the last 60 years. This didn't happen over night.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 01:04 PM by PojoaquePosse.)
02-22-2021 12:46 PM
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OscarWildeCat Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 12:10 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:09 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  Nice classy showing for Tarleton Athletics. I just hope that some day high & mighty nmsu can accept us as a peer institution.

Being a peer institution has nothing to do with football. No one is being high and mighty. Several other TSU and SLC posters understand the notion of peer institutions.

Enjoy your win and gloat away. NMSU fans are furious at our showing but no one is surprised or shocked we lost.

Correct. For anyone who is truly interested there exist rather sophisticated methodologies for selecting peer and aspirational peer institutions. Many of the criteria are listed on pages 24ff And have nothing to do with football or athletic conference affiliation. https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED531716.pdf
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 01:00 PM by OscarWildeCat.)
02-22-2021 12:59 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Online
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Post: #111
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 12:33 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 09:57 AM)Trod0 Wrote:  Thanks for the embarrassment Tarleton. Hopefully this game gets us a new coach

Just from reading comments y’all have made it seems problems go beyond coaching staff and straight to budget.

Since Warren Woodson was forced into retirement, NMSU had made a series of missteps when it comes to football. A lot of bad coaching hires; Underfunding; late to the game with facility improvements; jumping from conference to conference trying to find a stable home, located in a talent poor state with modest fan support, and years of losing. To parallel NMSU football, it's very similar to a program like San Jose State in basketball; a perennial loser bottom feeder. Sad but true.

The funniest thing is most Las Crucean love football at the high school level. They support their high school teams; and Las Cruces High and Mayfield have won many State Championships through the years. So, I believe there is a hidden bandwagon fan support in Las Cruces if the Aggie football program could ever build a consistent winner. They had a great following at the Arizona Bowl. Right now, Aggie fans are a fickle sort after many years of watching and reading about their Aggie football team losing.
02-22-2021 01:50 PM
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WestTexas409 Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-21-2021 11:03 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 10:50 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  $165,000 dollars spent on today's loss. $150,000 to Tarleton, $10,000 to rent the stadiums $5,000 for one practice at the stadium.

Difference is, we'll put that money back into our football program, not use it to fund our basketball program.

That money goes back into the general athletic fund.
02-22-2021 03:19 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #113
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 10:32 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:26 AM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Someone explain the academic debt to be paid off until 2026

The athletic department was given institutional funds to aid in the move to the WAC (about $10M). The NM legislature saw that and said "you can't do that" and made the athletic department pay it back to the NMSU general fund. We were paying $1M+ a year to pay off the debt. We "refinanced" a couple years ago, cutting our payments in half, but lengthening the time to pay off the debt. We now pay about $500k a year towards the debt. But we just added several million to the debt because of covid, so 2026 now looks like a pipe dream.

BTW, the UNM athletic department has been given millions and millions of dollars from institutional funds and has run a budget deficit of millions of dollars in the last 10 years and the NM legislature not only allows it, they are not requiring UNM to pay back the money. UNM is a much larger school than NMSU so a lot of NM politicians are UNM grads and ABQ is much closer to Santa Fe than Las Cruces. The hypocrisy is shameless and blatant.

Not to mention that the state a couple years ago started giving UNM and NMSU $300,000 more for the operating budgets of each athletic departments. NMSU Admin then decided to cut $300,000 it gave to AD. Every time the Aggie athletics tries to get ahead, some entity decides otherwise.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 04:45 PM by CrimsonPhantom.)
02-22-2021 04:44 PM
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FINALFOUR1970SWEETSIXTEEN1992 Online
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Post: #114
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-21-2021 07:16 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 07:02 PM)Vulpes88 Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 06:59 PM)FINALFOUR1970SWEETSIXTEEN1992 Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 06:46 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  Remind me again which of these teams has 85 available scholarships?


NMSU has pretty much every returning starter leave the program recently. Many of them landing P-5 offers. Clearly the head coach has lost this program. The kids aren't playing for him anymore. I think they're making a point to the AD that their needs to be a change. So honestly, we don't have 85 scholarship players out there. We probably have around 60, maybe less because of the players leaving and other players deciding not to play this season.

What happened for it to get that bad?

40-7, yeah your coach lost control.

I just know this much, they were desperate enough to sign a kid from Holland, TX lol.... I get that there are diamonds in the rough out there, but not from Holland lol.


NMSU signed several good 3* recruits this year. We don't lack talent. We lack a decent head coach. If we lacked talent then the kids transferring wouldn't be landing P-5 scholarship offers. Like I said, this program has stopped playing for Martin. He needs to be removed from his coaching duties.
02-22-2021 10:13 PM
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FINALFOUR1970SWEETSIXTEEN1992 Online
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RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-21-2021 08:54 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:37 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  As an outsider, there appears to be something dreadfully wrong with the Aggie football program. There is no way a first year FCS school should physically dominate ab FBS program.

As an insider, hopefully you know by now that Tarleton is not your average first year FCS school.

Yes we are but NMSU’s football program needs a major change. And I already know the response, but FCS should be in the discussion. I’m not saying FCS is the answer, but it needs to be in the conversation.

New Mexico State will never drop to FCS. We have two FBS rivals in UNM and UTEP and the SEC schools are paying NMSU nearly $2 million per game. We aren't going to drop down and lose out on that money. Plus, NMSU already has it's schedule complete though 2025. They're already working on 2025-2030 schedules. What happened Sunday won't happen again once NMSU hires a new coach. NMSU doesn't lack talent. If that was the case then the players leaving the program wouldn't be landing at P-5 programs. I mean our best DT from last year was an All-PAC-12 performer for Arizona this past season.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 10:20 PM by FINALFOUR1970SWEETSIXTEEN1992.)
02-22-2021 10:15 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #116
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 10:15 PM)FINALFOUR1970SWEETSIXTEEN1992 Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:54 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:37 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  As an outsider, there appears to be something dreadfully wrong with the Aggie football program. There is no way a first year FCS school should physically dominate ab FBS program.

As an insider, hopefully you know by now that Tarleton is not your average first year FCS school.

Yes we are but NMSU’s football program needs a major change. And I already know the response, but FCS should be in the discussion. I’m not saying FCS is the answer, but it needs to be in the conversation.

New Mexico State will never drop to FCS. We have two FBS rivals in UNM and UTEP and the SEC schools are paying NMSU nearly $2 million per game. We aren't going to drop down and lose out on that money. Plus, NMSU already has it's schedule complete though 2025. They're already working on 2025-2030 schedules. What happened Sunday won't happen again once NMSU hires a new coach. NMSU doesn't lack talent. If that was the case then the players leaving the program wouldn't be landing at P-5 programs. I mean our best DT from last year was an All-PAC-12 performer for Arizona this past season.

I am stumped as to the obsession with the Aggies moving to FCS. It is so illogical. Nothing about it makes ANY sense, yet people keep talking about it over and over and over. They all say they want to move to FBS in the near future but at the same time NMSU should move to FCS. I guess they think spending roughly the same amount of money on a sport, while bringing in no money and having essentially no conference prospects in FCS is somehow a bright idea. Yeah, that should really be in the discussion.

Of all the stupid ideas that get proposed on the boards, NMSU moving to FCS is by far the stupidest one of all.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 10:49 PM by Todor.)
02-22-2021 10:46 PM
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FINALFOUR1970SWEETSIXTEEN1992 Online
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Post: #117
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 10:46 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:15 PM)FINALFOUR1970SWEETSIXTEEN1992 Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:54 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:37 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  As an outsider, there appears to be something dreadfully wrong with the Aggie football program. There is no way a first year FCS school should physically dominate ab FBS program.

As an insider, hopefully you know by now that Tarleton is not your average first year FCS school.

Yes we are but NMSU’s football program needs a major change. And I already know the response, but FCS should be in the discussion. I’m not saying FCS is the answer, but it needs to be in the conversation.

New Mexico State will never drop to FCS. We have two FBS rivals in UNM and UTEP and the SEC schools are paying NMSU nearly $2 million per game. We aren't going to drop down and lose out on that money. Plus, NMSU already has it's schedule complete though 2025. They're already working on 2025-2030 schedules. What happened Sunday won't happen again once NMSU hires a new coach. NMSU doesn't lack talent. If that was the case then the players leaving the program wouldn't be landing at P-5 programs. I mean our best DT from last year was an All-PAC-12 performer for Arizona this past season.

I am stumped as to the obsession with the Aggies moving to FCS. It is so illogical. Nothing about it makes ANY sense, yet people keep talking about it over and over and over. They all say they want to move to FBS in the near future but at the same time NMSU should move to FCS. I guess they think spending roughly the same amount of money on a sport, while bringing in no money and having essentially no conference prospects in FCS is somehow a bright idea. Yeah, that should really be in the discussion.

Of all the stupid ideas that get proposed on the boards, NMSU moving to FCS is by far the stupidest one of all.

Exactly!

The reason any independent FBS program would move down is if they couldn't schedule anyone but NMSU is having ZERO problem scheduling people. We have pretty much scheduled the entire MWC. NMSU football could pretty much fund itself by playing a few P-5's for between $3-$4 million dollars a year. I think the only thing stopping this program from being decent is a legit head coach. It's time for NMSU to move on from Doug Martin. It was obvious NMSU played with ZERO effort yesterday and Tarleton played like they wanted to beat a FBS program. Tarleton is going to be a solid FCS program but NMSU also has the potential to be a solid FBS program. We just need the right leadership.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 11:10 PM by FINALFOUR1970SWEETSIXTEEN1992.)
02-22-2021 11:07 PM
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Post: #118
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 11:07 PM)FINALFOUR1970SWEETSIXTEEN1992 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:46 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:15 PM)FINALFOUR1970SWEETSIXTEEN1992 Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:54 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  As an insider, hopefully you know by now that Tarleton is not your average first year FCS school.

Yes we are but NMSU’s football program needs a major change. And I already know the response, but FCS should be in the discussion. I’m not saying FCS is the answer, but it needs to be in the conversation.

New Mexico State will never drop to FCS. We have two FBS rivals in UNM and UTEP and the SEC schools are paying NMSU nearly $2 million per game. We aren't going to drop down and lose out on that money. Plus, NMSU already has it's schedule complete though 2025. They're already working on 2025-2030 schedules. What happened Sunday won't happen again once NMSU hires a new coach. NMSU doesn't lack talent. If that was the case then the players leaving the program wouldn't be landing at P-5 programs. I mean our best DT from last year was an All-PAC-12 performer for Arizona this past season.

I am stumped as to the obsession with the Aggies moving to FCS. It is so illogical. Nothing about it makes ANY sense, yet people keep talking about it over and over and over. They all say they want to move to FBS in the near future but at the same time NMSU should move to FCS. I guess they think spending roughly the same amount of money on a sport, while bringing in no money and having essentially no conference prospects in FCS is somehow a bright idea. Yeah, that should really be in the discussion.

Of all the stupid ideas that get proposed on the boards, NMSU moving to FCS is by far the stupidest one of all.

Exactly!

The reason any independent FBS program would move down is if they couldn't schedule anyone but NMSU is having ZERO problem scheduling people. We have pretty much scheduled the entire MWC. NMSU football could pretty much fund itself by playing a few P-5's for between $3-$4 million dollars a year. I think the only thing stopping this program from being decent is a legit head coach. It's time for NMSU to move on from Doug Martin. It was obvious NMSU played with ZERO effort yesterday and Tarleton played like they wanted to beat a FBS program. Tarleton is going to be a solid FCS program but NMSU also has the potential to be a solid FBS program. We just need the right leadership.

Martin has been here a long time and had a fair chance. He hasn't gotten it done. Its not like giving someone an unreasonable time frame to turn around a program with no history of success. He's had time. 3 years ago things looked promising, but that was a long time ago now.
02-22-2021 11:29 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 12:59 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 12:10 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:09 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  Nice classy showing for Tarleton Athletics. I just hope that some day high & mighty nmsu can accept us as a peer institution.

Being a peer institution has nothing to do with football. No one is being high and mighty. Several other TSU and SLC posters understand the notion of peer institutions.

Enjoy your win and gloat away. NMSU fans are furious at our showing but no one is surprised or shocked we lost.

Correct. For anyone who is truly interested there exist rather sophisticated methodologies for selecting peer and aspirational peer institutions. Many of the criteria are listed on pages 24ff And have nothing to do with football or athletic conference affiliation. https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED531716.pdf

Agreed, "peer institution" was a poor choice of words on my part. "Worthy adversary", or "conference mate", would be more appropriate. Having said that, all the Texas public schools in the new WAC are in fact peer institutions, with ACU being the only private, but still considered an equal.

But back to the point.. Most of you weren't around at the beginning of Tarleton's presence on this board, long before the "Texas 5" came to pass. Just so you know...we (Tarleton fans) were called everthing but a moo cow by nmsu fans... "wannabes"..."fly-by-nights" "sub-par moveups", "warm bodies", "southland rejects"..you name it.

So yes, little ol' D2 moveup Tarleton whipping big bad NMSU's FBS ass in football is very gratifying. Could/should have been alot worse than it was, but lucky for nmsu, Tarleton has class. Can't wait until we do the same in basketball!
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 11:49 PM by Itinerant Texan.)
02-22-2021 11:31 PM
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Post: #120
RE: Tarleton vs NMSU Football
(02-22-2021 10:46 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 10:15 PM)FINALFOUR1970SWEETSIXTEEN1992 Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:54 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:41 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(02-21-2021 08:37 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  As an outsider, there appears to be something dreadfully wrong with the Aggie football program. There is no way a first year FCS school should physically dominate ab FBS program.

As an insider, hopefully you know by now that Tarleton is not your average first year FCS school.

Yes we are but NMSU’s football program needs a major change. And I already know the response, but FCS should be in the discussion. I’m not saying FCS is the answer, but it needs to be in the conversation.

New Mexico State will never drop to FCS. We have two FBS rivals in UNM and UTEP and the SEC schools are paying NMSU nearly $2 million per game. We aren't going to drop down and lose out on that money. Plus, NMSU already has it's schedule complete though 2025. They're already working on 2025-2030 schedules. What happened Sunday won't happen again once NMSU hires a new coach. NMSU doesn't lack talent. If that was the case then the players leaving the program wouldn't be landing at P-5 programs. I mean our best DT from last year was an All-PAC-12 performer for Arizona this past season.

I am stumped as to the obsession with the Aggies moving to FCS. It is so illogical. Nothing about it makes ANY sense, yet people keep talking about it over and over and over. They all say they want to move to FBS in the near future but at the same time NMSU should move to FCS. I guess they think spending roughly the same amount of money on a sport, while bringing in no money and having essentially no conference prospects in FCS is somehow a bright idea. Yeah, that should really be in the discussion.

Of all the stupid ideas that get proposed on the boards, NMSU moving to FCS is by far the stupidest one of all.

For anyone outside the NMSU family it makes a lot of sense for you to move down based on W-l record and low FBS budget, including the low salary you have have able/willing to pay your head coach. There is always the hope that a new coach will make a difference and it might but your history and resource constraints would suggest otherwise.

The comments here by your posters provide some insight into the reasons you might choose to remain as an FBS independent but to a casual fan it makes no sense for NMSU to soldier on year after year attempting to escape the bottom 10 FBS. FWIW, many of the same people who say NMSU should drop down say the same about your rival UTEP and other programs that haven’t enjoyed much success playing at the FBS level.
02-23-2021 09:21 AM
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