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Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(02-17-2021 08:02 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I feel conference tournaments are really really big deal to ACC and Big East conferences in particular. The Big East Tournament in MGS it just was the highlight and same for ACC . The other basketball leagues I don’t feel have that affinity for their individual conference tournaments. Wish SU could play football in ACC and BB in Big East

Yes, the ACC and Big East seem to put the most weight on their tournaments. At least in the Big Ten, it’s definitely MUCH bigger for the schools to win the regular season title. That still matters a ton for each of the teams.
02-18-2021 11:32 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(02-17-2021 08:02 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I feel conference tournaments are really really big deal to ACC and Big East conferences in particular. The Big East Tournament in MGS it just was the highlight and same for ACC . The other basketball leagues I don’t feel have that affinity for their individual conference tournaments. Wish SU could play football in ACC and BB in Big East

IMHO, the Big East built-on the ACC basketball media model. Putting an emphasis on the end-of-season tournament... making the regular season as a build-up for the tournament. It makes for better television drama. Having the tournament in NYC made it even more of an event. The two conferences’ approach are similar.

That having been said, the pandemic takes precedence and we should be more accepting of one-time exceptions. I was surprised by how well football adapted this past year...interestingly, basketball has had more issues (blue bloods dominated in football, but blue bloods have struggled in basketball).
02-19-2021 10:17 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(02-18-2021 11:32 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 08:02 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I feel conference tournaments are really really big deal to ACC and Big East conferences in particular. The Big East Tournament in MGS it just was the highlight and same for ACC . The other basketball leagues I don’t feel have that affinity for their individual conference tournaments. Wish SU could play football in ACC and BB in Big East

Yes, the ACC and Big East seem to put the most weight on their tournaments. At least in the Big Ten, it’s definitely MUCH bigger for the schools to win the regular season title. That still matters a ton for each of the teams.

The Missouri Valley likes Arch Madness. It's a big marketing push for them.


In 2004, I went to the entire A-10 tournament in Dayton. I had no rooting interest, but a buddy of mine was from Philly, and UD and XU are local teams for me, and it was spring break for us.

That was the year Xavier beat undefeated St. Joe's in the second round, then Xavier beat Dayton in the final. Jameer Nelson, Delonte West, Lionel Chalmers, and the hyper-athletic cheater Romain Sato. An amazing experience.

The A-10 was a 4-bid conference that year, and both Xavier and St. Joe's went to the Elite Eight.
02-19-2021 10:38 AM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
So far Gonzaga and BYU are a go:

https://wccsports.com/tournaments/?id=58

I think it would have been a cop out had Gonzaga and BYU opted out. Gonzaga and BYU have byes to the conference semifinals, will only have to play two games each, and there will only be four men's teams left. There would be less of a chance of them contracting COVID-19 than other teams that have to play three or four games and are in arenas with way more teams involved.

Unfortunately it looks like the WCC is having both the men and women play in Las Vegas on the same days so Monday practically will be a "quarterfinal" day. Orleans Arena had better clean the arena and locker rooms well between the women's and men's games to make sure Gonzaga doesn't get sick. The WCC would've minimized Gonzaga's risk if they had the women's and men's tournaments in separate locations.
02-28-2021 11:19 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(02-28-2021 11:19 PM)schmolik Wrote:  So far Gonzaga and BYU are a go:

https://wccsports.com/tournaments/?id=58

I think it would have been a cop out had Gonzaga and BYU opted out. Gonzaga and BYU have byes to the conference semifinals, will only have to play two games each, and there will only be four men's teams left. There would be less of a chance of them contracting COVID-19 than other teams that have to play three or four games and are in arenas with way more teams involved.

Unfortunately it looks like the WCC is having both the men and women play in Las Vegas on the same days so Monday practically will be a "quarterfinal" day. Orleans Arena had better clean the arena and locker rooms well between the women's and men's games to make sure Gonzaga doesn't get sick. The WCC would've minimized Gonzaga's risk if they had the women's and men's tournaments in separate locations.

Eh - I'm on the high end of the spectrum of taking safety precautions and even I don't think this is a large issue. Even if they're using the same locker rooms (which may not even be happening), the data that we have seen is that surface contact risk is extremely low, particularly when you're talking about games that are being played hours apart. The risk comes from actually being physically present around other people at the airport, in the hotel, at a restaurant, during the basketball game itself, etc. Pretty much every other action required to travel and play the game is significantly more risky from a COVID standpoint than whether the locker room has been cleaned thoroughly. It's psychologically easier for us to concentrate more on the cleaning aspect (as that's easily controllable and visible and takes little sacrifice outside of normal good hygiene) than the social interaction aspect (as that is the invisible risk and takes a huge amount of sacrifice).
03-01-2021 09:19 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(02-19-2021 10:17 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 08:02 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I feel conference tournaments are really really big deal to ACC and Big East conferences in particular. The Big East Tournament in MGS it just was the highlight and same for ACC . The other basketball leagues I don’t feel have that affinity for their individual conference tournaments. Wish SU could play football in ACC and BB in Big East

IMHO, the Big East built-on the ACC basketball media model. Putting an emphasis on the end-of-season tournament... making the regular season as a build-up for the tournament. It makes for better television drama. Having the tournament in NYC made it even more of an event. The two conferences’ approach are similar.

That having been said, the pandemic takes precedence and we should be more accepting of one-time exceptions. I was surprised by how well football adapted this past year...interestingly, basketball has had more issues (blue bloods dominated in football, but blue bloods have struggled in basketball).

(1) Yes, that's exactly what the Big East did, it used the ACC tournament and season structure as a model. Made sense, as the ACC was the nearest dominant hoops conference at the time of formation in 1980.

(2) One thing that has always peeved me is that when it comes to top seeds, the committee tends to largely disregard conference tournament results anyway. A conference tourney can be vital for a bubble team, and yes, if two teams are on the knife's edge between a #1 and #2 seeds and one wins its tournament and the other doesn't, that can tip the winner up to the top line. But by and large, if you are regarded as a "solid" #1 going in to the conference tourney, you're going to remain there even if you crash out in your conference tournament's first round.

As someone who grew up on ACC and Big East hoops, I've never liked that. The committee has always had a more Big 10 kind of mindset about conference tourneys, viewing them as kind of pre-NCAA exhibitions. OTOH I think they should be regarded as very important, and much more weight attached to them by the NCAA selection committee.

The upshot is, as Gonzaga is surely regarded as a "solid" #1, it really doesn't matter if they skip their tourney, because the Big 10 mindset committee is going to make them a #1 seed even if they were to crash out by 25 in one of their WCC tournament games.
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2021 09:33 AM by quo vadis.)
03-01-2021 09:30 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(03-01-2021 09:30 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-19-2021 10:17 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 08:02 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I feel conference tournaments are really really big deal to ACC and Big East conferences in particular. The Big East Tournament in MGS it just was the highlight and same for ACC . The other basketball leagues I don’t feel have that affinity for their individual conference tournaments. Wish SU could play football in ACC and BB in Big East

IMHO, the Big East built-on the ACC basketball media model. Putting an emphasis on the end-of-season tournament... making the regular season as a build-up for the tournament. It makes for better television drama. Having the tournament in NYC made it even more of an event. The two conferences’ approach are similar.

That having been said, the pandemic takes precedence and we should be more accepting of one-time exceptions. I was surprised by how well football adapted this past year...interestingly, basketball has had more issues (blue bloods dominated in football, but blue bloods have struggled in basketball).

(1) Yes, that's exactly what the Big East did, it used the ACC tournament and season structure as a model. Made sense, as the ACC was the nearest dominant hoops conference at the time of formation in 1980.

(2) One thing that has always peeved me is that when it comes to top seeds, the committee tends to largely disregard conference tournament results anyway. A conference tourney can be vital for a bubble team, and yes, if two teams are on the knife's edge between a #1 and #2 seeds and one wins its tournament and the other doesn't, that can tip the winner up to the top line. But by and large, if you are regarded as a "solid" #1 going in to the conference tourney, you're going to remain there even if you crash out in your conference tournament's first round.

As someone who grew up on ACC and Big East hoops, I've never liked that. The committee has always had a more Big 10 kind of mindset about conference tourneys, viewing them as kind of pre-NCAA exhibitions. OTOH I think they should be regarded as very important, and much more weight attached to them by the NCAA selection committee.

The upshot is, as Gonzaga is surely regarded as a "solid" #1, it really doesn't matter if they skip their tourney, because the Big 10 mindset committee is going to make them a #1 seed even if they were to crash out by 25 in one of their WCC tournament games.

Interesting that you have that perception. Maybe it's because I'm a Big Ten fan, but I always felt that it was the other way around where a great win in a conference tournament was counted more than a great win in regular season play. Granted, I'm really analyzing this more from the standpoint of a bubble team - I feel that conference tournament games are weighted more than regular season games for the bubble. (That's just my perception. It might be different in reality.)

Now, you may be right that it's a different calculus for determining the top seeds that are already clearly in the field prior to their conference tourneys. The top seeds are granted more leeway in their conference tournaments, although I'd argue that this ought to be the case in practicality. The committee is naturally already going to have a very good sense of the top seeds by the time the conference tournaments start. Putting aside Gonzaga (where they're so far ahead of the rest of the WCC), it's not exactly crazy that Baylor or Michigan could lose a first round game in the Big 12 or Big Ten tournaments (respectively) as their opponents would likely be NCAA Tournament-level teams themselves. It's hard to ignore the "entire body of work" for teams that were consistent from November through March. They've already seen tons of Baylor and Michigan games with lots of data points, which means that the conference tournaments don't give the committee much more information than what they already have.

In contrast, the conference tournaments provide the most value in separating out the *bottom* of the bracket for the last bubble teams as opposed to the top of the bracket.
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2021 10:00 AM by Frank the Tank.)
03-01-2021 09:57 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
My biggest concern is teams that are a lock for an autobid, and even a high seed, opting out of their conference tournament just for the purpose of getting an additional bid for their conference. Few people would probably complain if the bubble team that gets bumped is from a power conference. But if the team(s) that get left out are from a mid-major conference like the A10 or AAC you would hear some (justified) screaming.
03-01-2021 10:30 AM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
I think if Gonzaga was really concerned about COVID-19, why not cancel some of their earlier road trips to say San Diego? There's almost as much chance of catching the virus from a game like that as there is from the tournament and San Diego is ranked 248 in the NET and a really long plane ride away (they did play at Pepperdine two days later so I'm sure they stayed in Southern California to save travel but that can also introduce more COVID danger).
03-01-2021 10:58 AM
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Post: #70
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(03-01-2021 10:30 AM)ken d Wrote:  My biggest concern is teams that are a lock for an autobid, and even a high seed, opting out of their conference tournament just for the purpose of getting an additional bid for their conference. Few people would probably complain if the bubble team that gets bumped is from a power conference. But if the team(s) that get left out are from a mid-major conference like the A10 or AAC you would hear some (justified) screaming.

I just don't think this is likely to happen going forward. For the most part players like winning trophies and getting conference championship rings they get to keep forever, and a full trophy case helps on the recruiting trail. Alumni and big donors like having an end-of-year event in Vegas where the team gets crowned champion. In a normal year it just doesn't make any sort of sense for Gonzaga to sit on the sidelines so that Pepperdine can have a more fun couple weeks, and in any year I don't think it's going to make sense for a Northern Iowa team considered safe as an 8-seed to sit out Arch Madness for the benefit of, like, Illinois State.

This year just happens to carry a particular risk that playing in the conference tournament could cause you to miss the NCAAs entirely, and it doubles as as good of a shot that Gonzaga will get to finally win a title with Few. I really think it's a one-off possibility for a variety of reasons. Why would Houston ever turn down winning a conference tournament in Texas so that Tulsa can benefit?
03-01-2021 11:20 AM
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Post: #71
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(02-28-2021 11:19 PM)schmolik Wrote:  So far Gonzaga and BYU are a go:

https://wccsports.com/tournaments/?id=58

I think it would have been a cop out had Gonzaga and BYU opted out. Gonzaga and BYU have byes to the conference semifinals, will only have to play two games each, and there will only be four men's teams left. There would be less of a chance of them contracting COVID-19 than other teams that have to play three or four games and are in arenas with way more teams involved.

Unfortunately it looks like the WCC is having both the men and women play in Las Vegas on the same days so Monday practically will be a "quarterfinal" day. Orleans Arena had better clean the arena and locker rooms well between the women's and men's games to make sure Gonzaga doesn't get sick. The WCC would've minimized Gonzaga's risk if they had the women's and men's tournaments in separate locations.
They and they other western conferences cannot play in California.
In fact, there will be ten conference tournaments (5 men/5 women) in Las Vegas in the next two weeks: WCC, Mountain West, Big West, Pac 12, and WAC. WCC and WAC are back to back at the Orleans Arena.
03-01-2021 12:31 PM
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Post: #72
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(03-01-2021 12:31 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(02-28-2021 11:19 PM)schmolik Wrote:  So far Gonzaga and BYU are a go:

https://wccsports.com/tournaments/?id=58

I think it would have been a cop out had Gonzaga and BYU opted out. Gonzaga and BYU have byes to the conference semifinals, will only have to play two games each, and there will only be four men's teams left. There would be less of a chance of them contracting COVID-19 than other teams that have to play three or four games and are in arenas with way more teams involved.

Unfortunately it looks like the WCC is having both the men and women play in Las Vegas on the same days so Monday practically will be a "quarterfinal" day. Orleans Arena had better clean the arena and locker rooms well between the women's and men's games to make sure Gonzaga doesn't get sick. The WCC would've minimized Gonzaga's risk if they had the women's and men's tournaments in separate locations.
They and they other western conferences cannot play in California.
In fact, there will be ten conference tournaments (5 men/5 women) in Las Vegas in the next two weeks: WCC, Mountain West, Big West, Pac 12, and WAC. WCC and WAC are back to back at the Orleans Arena.

That's actually normal on the men's side except for the Big West now.
03-01-2021 12:34 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(03-01-2021 10:58 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I think if Gonzaga was really concerned about COVID-19, why not cancel some of their earlier road trips to say San Diego? There's almost as much chance of catching the virus from a game like that as there is from the tournament and San Diego is ranked 248 in the NET and a really long plane ride away (they did play at Pepperdine two days later so I'm sure they stayed in Southern California to save travel but that can also introduce more COVID danger).

I would assume the difference is time till the NCAA tourney, most shut downs have been 2-3 weeks. Since an outbreak.usually takes a few days to develop after initial exposure anything within like 25 days of the tourney is a risk to miss the whole thing if you do have an outbreak. I really wish the NCAA would have chosen to create true bubbles by adding in a buy week where the teams would be isolated within their first four grouping. It would have likely ensured no further exposure from the virus and a finished tourney, with out the delay they are gambling a bit. It also would have allowed teams who had issues to possibly play, or fully recover from a pause.
03-01-2021 03:03 PM
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Post: #74
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(03-01-2021 09:30 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-19-2021 10:17 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 08:02 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I feel conference tournaments are really really big deal to ACC and Big East conferences in particular. The Big East Tournament in MGS it just was the highlight and same for ACC . The other basketball leagues I don’t feel have that affinity for their individual conference tournaments. Wish SU could play football in ACC and BB in Big East

IMHO, the Big East built-on the ACC basketball media model. Putting an emphasis on the end-of-season tournament... making the regular season as a build-up for the tournament. It makes for better television drama. Having the tournament in NYC made it even more of an event. The two conferences’ approach are similar.

That having been said, the pandemic takes precedence and we should be more accepting of one-time exceptions. I was surprised by how well football adapted this past year...interestingly, basketball has had more issues (blue bloods dominated in football, but blue bloods have struggled in basketball).

(1) Yes, that's exactly what the Big East did, it used the ACC tournament and season structure as a model. Made sense, as the ACC was the nearest dominant hoops conference at the time of formation in 1980.

(2) One thing that has always peeved me is that when it comes to top seeds, the committee tends to largely disregard conference tournament results anyway. A conference tourney can be vital for a bubble team, and yes, if two teams are on the knife's edge between a #1 and #2 seeds and one wins its tournament and the other doesn't, that can tip the winner up to the top line. But by and large, if you are regarded as a "solid" #1 going in to the conference tourney, you're going to remain there even if you crash out in your conference tournament's first round.

As someone who grew up on ACC and Big East hoops, I've never liked that. The committee has always had a more Big 10 kind of mindset about conference tourneys, viewing them as kind of pre-NCAA exhibitions. OTOH I think they should be regarded as very important, and much more weight attached to them by the NCAA selection committee.

The upshot is, as Gonzaga is surely regarded as a "solid" #1, it really doesn't matter if they skip their tourney, because the Big 10 mindset committee is going to make them a #1 seed even if they were to crash out by 25 in one of their WCC tournament games.

Regarding the committee disregarding conference tournament losses by highly ranked teams...I share the same frustration when the selections are first being announced. There is such a recency bias that it seems disrespectful to not knock-down these teams’ seedings. They played an important conference tournament and just lost...therefore, I believe that these teams can’t be as good as advertised. The fact that, in the ACC, it’s generally UNC or Duke that enter conference tournaments highly ranked, makes it even more frustrating.

When I’m filling out my brackets a few days later, some reasoning returns and I generally agree with the selection committee.
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2021 03:35 PM by Wahoowa84.)
03-01-2021 03:14 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(03-01-2021 03:14 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(03-01-2021 09:30 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-19-2021 10:17 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 08:02 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I feel conference tournaments are really really big deal to ACC and Big East conferences in particular. The Big East Tournament in MGS it just was the highlight and same for ACC . The other basketball leagues I don’t feel have that affinity for their individual conference tournaments. Wish SU could play football in ACC and BB in Big East

IMHO, the Big East built-on the ACC basketball media model. Putting an emphasis on the end-of-season tournament... making the regular season as a build-up for the tournament. It makes for better television drama. Having the tournament in NYC made it even more of an event. The two conferences’ approach are similar.

That having been said, the pandemic takes precedence and we should be more accepting of one-time exceptions. I was surprised by how well football adapted this past year...interestingly, basketball has had more issues (blue bloods dominated in football, but blue bloods have struggled in basketball).

(1) Yes, that's exactly what the Big East did, it used the ACC tournament and season structure as a model. Made sense, as the ACC was the nearest dominant hoops conference at the time of formation in 1980.

(2) One thing that has always peeved me is that when it comes to top seeds, the committee tends to largely disregard conference tournament results anyway. A conference tourney can be vital for a bubble team, and yes, if two teams are on the knife's edge between a #1 and #2 seeds and one wins its tournament and the other doesn't, that can tip the winner up to the top line. But by and large, if you are regarded as a "solid" #1 going in to the conference tourney, you're going to remain there even if you crash out in your conference tournament's first round.

As someone who grew up on ACC and Big East hoops, I've never liked that. The committee has always had a more Big 10 kind of mindset about conference tourneys, viewing them as kind of pre-NCAA exhibitions. OTOH I think they should be regarded as very important, and much more weight attached to them by the NCAA selection committee.

The upshot is, as Gonzaga is surely regarded as a "solid" #1, it really doesn't matter if they skip their tourney, because the Big 10 mindset committee is going to make them a #1 seed even if they were to crash out by 25 in one of their WCC tournament games.

Regarding the committee disregarding conference tournament losses by highly ranked teams...I share the same frustration when the selections are first being announced. There is such a recency bias that it seems disrespectful to not knock-down these teams’ seedings. They played an important conference tournament and just lost...therefore, I believe that these teams can’t be as good as advertised. The fact that, in the ACC, it’s generally UNC or Duke that enter conference tournaments highly ranked, makes it even more frustrating.

When I’m filling out my brackets a few days later, some reasoning returns and I generally agree with the selection committee.

I tend not to do that, LOL. My thinking remains the same - the winner of the conference tournament is the *automatic* entry from the conference in to the NCAA tournament. It's the real conference champion, the only team from that conference that "won their way in" to the national playoffs on the court. Any team that fails to do that should suffer a real consequence, no matter how great their regular season was.
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2021 05:05 PM by quo vadis.)
03-01-2021 05:01 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
(03-01-2021 05:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2021 03:14 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(03-01-2021 09:30 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-19-2021 10:17 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 08:02 PM)PusherT Wrote:  I feel conference tournaments are really really big deal to ACC and Big East conferences in particular. The Big East Tournament in MGS it just was the highlight and same for ACC . The other basketball leagues I don’t feel have that affinity for their individual conference tournaments. Wish SU could play football in ACC and BB in Big East

IMHO, the Big East built-on the ACC basketball media model. Putting an emphasis on the end-of-season tournament... making the regular season as a build-up for the tournament. It makes for better television drama. Having the tournament in NYC made it even more of an event. The two conferences’ approach are similar.

That having been said, the pandemic takes precedence and we should be more accepting of one-time exceptions. I was surprised by how well football adapted this past year...interestingly, basketball has had more issues (blue bloods dominated in football, but blue bloods have struggled in basketball).

(1) Yes, that's exactly what the Big East did, it used the ACC tournament and season structure as a model. Made sense, as the ACC was the nearest dominant hoops conference at the time of formation in 1980.

(2) One thing that has always peeved me is that when it comes to top seeds, the committee tends to largely disregard conference tournament results anyway. A conference tourney can be vital for a bubble team, and yes, if two teams are on the knife's edge between a #1 and #2 seeds and one wins its tournament and the other doesn't, that can tip the winner up to the top line. But by and large, if you are regarded as a "solid" #1 going in to the conference tourney, you're going to remain there even if you crash out in your conference tournament's first round.

As someone who grew up on ACC and Big East hoops, I've never liked that. The committee has always had a more Big 10 kind of mindset about conference tourneys, viewing them as kind of pre-NCAA exhibitions. OTOH I think they should be regarded as very important, and much more weight attached to them by the NCAA selection committee.

The upshot is, as Gonzaga is surely regarded as a "solid" #1, it really doesn't matter if they skip their tourney, because the Big 10 mindset committee is going to make them a #1 seed even if they were to crash out by 25 in one of their WCC tournament games.

Regarding the committee disregarding conference tournament losses by highly ranked teams...I share the same frustration when the selections are first being announced. There is such a recency bias that it seems disrespectful to not knock-down these teams’ seedings. They played an important conference tournament and just lost...therefore, I believe that these teams can’t be as good as advertised. The fact that, in the ACC, it’s generally UNC or Duke that enter conference tournaments highly ranked, makes it even more frustrating.

When I’m filling out my brackets a few days later, some reasoning returns and I generally agree with the selection committee.

I tend not to do that, LOL. My thinking remains the same - the winner of the conference tournament is the *automatic* entry from the conference in to the NCAA tournament. It's the real conference champion, the only team from that conference that "won their way in" to the national playoffs on the court. Any team that fails to do that should suffer a real consequence, no matter how great their regular season was.

Maybe I’m just scarred from the pitiful performance by UVA in ACC tournaments. Although the 1976 run was miraculous, UVA’s subsequent performance has been bad: Hoos have finished 1st in regular season play 9 times, and won only 2 ACC tournaments. Fortunately, the selection committee still recognized UVA as a #1 seed 7 times. UVA won the NCAA tournament in 2019...as a #1 seed, although they had lost in the ACC tournament semifinals.

After UVA unexpectedly won the ACC tournament (in 2018), it lost the next game in the most historic upset in the NCAA tournament.
03-01-2021 08:32 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Gonzaga considering opting out of the WCC tournament.
I reviewed the last 20 seasons (2000 - 2019) of ACC play to determine who does better in the NCAA tournament...the regular season champion or the conference tournament champion.

The same team won both the ACC regular season and conference tournament in half of the 20 years (2000, 01, 06, 07, 08, 10, 13, 14, 16 and 18). Twice this ACC team also won the NCAA tournament (both times Duke, in 2001 and 2010).

In the other 10 years, the regular season champion advanced further than the conference tournament champion eight times (2002, 04, 05, 09, 11, 12, 17 and 19). Regular season champs who lost in the ACC tournament, bounced back to win the national title five times (Maryland in 2002, UNC in 05, 09 & 17, and UVA in 2019). Only twice did the ACC tournament champ outperform the regular season champ during the NCAA tournament (in 2015, ND made the Elite Eight while UVA choked vs the Spartans in the 2nd round; and in 2003, Duke went one extra round than Wake). An ACC conference tournament champion who did not also have the best regular season record, never made the Final Four...much less win the national title.

If the goal is to go farther in the NCAA tournament or potentially be the national champion, then the regular season performance is more important than the conference tournament.
03-02-2021 12:01 PM
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