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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Harvey opts out
(02-16-2021 09:14 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Everything I've seen regarding Eason indicates he's staying.

There was apparently a rumor going around a few days ago that he would be headed to the PAC 10 which included an old Mick quote, but mama Eason completely denied on twitter. I was looking for it (haven't found it yet) but I did find these OLD tweets which are sort of on topic:




 
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2021 11:07 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
02-16-2021 11:02 PM
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RE: Harvey opts out
(02-16-2021 10:57 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 10:08 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  Not a huge Brannen fan. But timing has been awful for him. Unfortunately we are on a complete rebuild. We’re 5 years out from seeing the NCAA regardless of coach at this point. As I’ve been saying, the BB program is dead man walking in Clifton.

Disagree with the 5 years regardless of coach. With essentially FA now in college basketball you can definitely build a tournament roster in one offseason. The problem is this staff hasn’t exactly identified the right type of players and made the most of the transfer market. Continually bringing in slow, stiff bigs makes no sense when you want to play fast. Guards still dominate the game. If they can somehow get an impact guard to pair with DeJulius and a rim defending/rebounder I’d give them a shot next year.

What are these programs that are building tourney teams out of transfers in a single offseason?
 
02-16-2021 11:14 PM
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Bearcat04 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Harvey opts out
(02-16-2021 11:14 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 10:57 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 10:08 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  Not a huge Brannen fan. But timing has been awful for him. Unfortunately we are on a complete rebuild. We’re 5 years out from seeing the NCAA regardless of coach at this point. As I’ve been saying, the BB program is dead man walking in Clifton.

Disagree with the 5 years regardless of coach. With essentially FA now in college basketball you can definitely build a tournament roster in one offseason. The problem is this staff hasn’t exactly identified the right type of players and made the most of the transfer market. Continually bringing in slow, stiff bigs makes no sense when you want to play fast. Guards still dominate the game. If they can somehow get an impact guard to pair with DeJulius and a rim defending/rebounder I’d give them a shot next year.

What are these programs that are building tourney teams out of transfers in a single offseason?

Just off the top of my head Arkansas. Three of their top players are all transfers. Not saying it’s going to be the norm but it can be done with so many good players available.
 
02-16-2021 11:23 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Harvey opts out
(02-16-2021 09:18 PM)Sweetness Wrote:  It's hard to blame him. He was criminally underutilized compared to other players despite being one of our most efficient scorers.

Harvey has never been able to get healthy, and when he finally did he went on lockdown. When he was healthy and conditioned he played a lot of minutes. The moment he got to campus There have been rumors of Harvey having one foot out the door.
 
02-17-2021 06:33 AM
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Post: #25
RE: Harvey opts out
(02-16-2021 11:02 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 09:14 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Everything I've seen regarding Eason indicates he's staying.

There was apparently a rumor going around a few days ago that he would be headed to the PAC 10 which included an old Mick quote, but mama Eason completely denied on twitter. I was looking for it (haven't found it yet) but I did find these OLD tweets which are sort of on topic:





I'd like to take these quotes for face value, but the article below makes me think otherwise.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...065407002/

There's no way Jarron would trash Brannen on social media if their relationship was anything close to what was described in this article.
 
02-17-2021 06:47 AM
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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Harvey opts out
First let me preface this with I am not criticizing college aged you adults who are going through tough mental situations. By all accounts no one is getting a true college experience and they are stuck in isolation most of the time.

But that said the overall pattern is concerning. We've had 3 players opt-out and leave their basketball-family not including Dou who left and came back. You compare that to football who has 7X as many scholarship players and had 0 leave; there's no doubt in my mind that's due to the culture Fick has built. I'm not criticizing Brannen, maybe with a rebuilding year it was going to be tough to keep the unit together, but at the very least he can look down the hall to see that the culture is everything to a program. Hopefully with the guys who want to be here that's what Brannen will develop over the next couple years.
 
02-17-2021 07:22 AM
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Bear Catlett Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Harvey opts out
(02-16-2021 11:23 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 11:14 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 10:57 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 10:08 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  Not a huge Brannen fan. But timing has been awful for him. Unfortunately we are on a complete rebuild. We’re 5 years out from seeing the NCAA regardless of coach at this point. As I’ve been saying, the BB program is dead man walking in Clifton.

Disagree with the 5 years regardless of coach. With essentially FA now in college basketball you can definitely build a tournament roster in one offseason. The problem is this staff hasn’t exactly identified the right type of players and made the most of the transfer market. Continually bringing in slow, stiff bigs makes no sense when you want to play fast. Guards still dominate the game. If they can somehow get an impact guard to pair with DeJulius and a rim defending/rebounder I’d give them a shot next year.

What are these programs that are building tourney teams out of transfers in a single offseason?

Just off the top of my head Arkansas. Three of their top players are all transfers. Not saying it’s going to be the norm but it can be done with so many good players available.

How about UC 91-92?

Van Exel, Blount, Martin, Buford and Nelson weren't on the team the year before.

I understand Harvey wanting to transfer, but I don't understand opting out, which used to be known as quitting, in the middle of the season. That's got to be a concern for wherever he decides to opt in.
 
02-17-2021 07:26 AM
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Banter Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Harvey opts out
(02-17-2021 07:22 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  First let me preface this with I am not criticizing college aged you adults who are going through tough mental situations. By all accounts no one is getting a true college experience and they are stuck in isolation most of the time.

But that said the overall pattern is concerning. We've had 3 players opt-out and leave their basketball-family not including Dou who left and came back. You compare that to football who has 7X as many scholarship players and had 0 leave; there's no doubt in my mind that's due to the culture Fick has built. I'm not criticizing Brannen, maybe with a rebuilding year it was going to be tough to keep the unit together, but at the very least he can look down the hall to see that the culture is everything to a program. Hopefully with the guys who want to be here that's what Brannen will develop over the next couple years.

I mean its a lot easier to preach culture when you have a 3 or 4 year track record and you already had your players 100% bought in. No matter what you think of CJB he has been dealt an extremely rough hand to start off his tenure as UC head coach.

- He started late in the process and had to scramble to put together a recruiting class
- He went into the season with an injured star player who had a questionable attitude and the end of the season gets cancelled
-Finally brings in a full recruiting class and the program is on lockdown and those guys can't get into a S&C program or get bought into the culture before the season starts

I think most candidates would struggle to hold a team/program together working through those conditions. The one Madsen twin is a bit concerning, but maybe he was really struggling with the schedule and will be back, but I feel like Harvey was never happy here and only came because we were willing to take him. He spent last season recovering from an injury that kept him out of his senior year, and started the season hurt as well.
 
02-17-2021 07:44 AM
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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Harvey opts out
(02-17-2021 07:44 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 07:22 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  First let me preface this with I am not criticizing college aged you adults who are going through tough mental situations. By all accounts no one is getting a true college experience and they are stuck in isolation most of the time.

But that said the overall pattern is concerning. We've had 3 players opt-out and leave their basketball-family not including Dou who left and came back. You compare that to football who has 7X as many scholarship players and had 0 leave; there's no doubt in my mind that's due to the culture Fick has built. I'm not criticizing Brannen, maybe with a rebuilding year it was going to be tough to keep the unit together, but at the very least he can look down the hall to see that the culture is everything to a program. Hopefully with the guys who want to be here that's what Brannen will develop over the next couple years.

I mean its a lot easier to preach culture when you have a 3 or 4 year track record and you already had your players 100% bought in. No matter what you think of CJB he has been dealt an extremely rough hand to start off his tenure as UC head coach.

- He started late in the process and had to scramble to put together a recruiting class
- He went into the season with an injured star player who had a questionable attitude and the end of the season gets cancelled
-Finally brings in a full recruiting class and the program is on lockdown and those guys can't get into a S&C program or get bought into the culture before the season starts

I think most candidates would struggle to hold a team/program together working through those conditions. The one Madsen twin is a bit concerning, but maybe he was really struggling with the schedule and will be back, but I feel like Harvey was never happy here and only came because we were willing to take him. He spent last season recovering from an injury that kept him out of his senior year, and started the season hurt as well.

Yeah, I mostly agree. I like Brannen and expect him to be successful. My post was more so just recognizing that we don't have that tight culture yet but like you said it'd be nearly impossible to build that in year 2. My point was that the goal is to have what football has.
 
02-17-2021 07:52 AM
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RE: Harvey opts out
Harvey is not as good of a basketball player as people thought he would be.
 
02-17-2021 07:58 AM
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Post: #31
RE: Harvey opts out
(02-16-2021 10:57 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 10:08 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  Not a huge Brannen fan. But timing has been awful for him. Unfortunately we are on a complete rebuild. We’re 5 years out from seeing the NCAA regardless of coach at this point. As I’ve been saying, the BB program is dead man walking in Clifton.

Disagree with the 5 years regardless of coach. With essentially FA now in college basketball you can definitely build a tournament roster in one offseason. The problem is this staff hasn’t exactly identified the right type of players and made the most of the transfer market. Continually bringing in slow, stiff bigs makes no sense when you want to play fast. Guards still dominate the game. If they can somehow get an impact guard to pair with DeJulius and a rim defending/rebounder I’d give them a shot next year.

I agree; five years is an eternity in high major college basketball, circa 2021. The right coach will turn a program in one-two years and just making the NCAA in the American should be no daunting task for a program with UC's resources, facilities, and winning tradition. Advancing has proven to be a monumental task for UC in the past dozen years.
 
02-17-2021 08:43 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Harvey opts out
(02-17-2021 07:22 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  First let me preface this with I am not criticizing college aged you adults who are going through tough mental situations. By all accounts no one is getting a true college experience and they are stuck in isolation most of the time.

But that said the overall pattern is concerning. We've had 3 players opt-out and leave their basketball-family not including Dou who left and came back. You compare that to football who has 7X as many scholarship players and had 0 leave; there's no doubt in my mind that's due to the culture Fick has built. I'm not criticizing Brannen, maybe with a rebuilding year it was going to be tough to keep the unit together, but at the very least he can look down the hall to see that the culture is everything to a program. Hopefully with the guys who want to be here that's what Brannen will develop over the next couple years.

Not saying you are wrong or trying to make an excuse, but I would guess that the basketball players are going through a little tougher time with isolation than the football players were/did. Being cooped up in a gym or dorm with the same 10-11 guys has to be tougher mentally than spending hours outside on a practice field with 70+ other people. Not to mention you get to "hit" people on a football field to take some frustrations out.
 
02-17-2021 09:56 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Harvey opts out
(02-17-2021 07:26 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 11:23 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 11:14 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 10:57 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 10:08 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  Not a huge Brannen fan. But timing has been awful for him. Unfortunately we are on a complete rebuild. We’re 5 years out from seeing the NCAA regardless of coach at this point. As I’ve been saying, the BB program is dead man walking in Clifton.

Disagree with the 5 years regardless of coach. With essentially FA now in college basketball you can definitely build a tournament roster in one offseason. The problem is this staff hasn’t exactly identified the right type of players and made the most of the transfer market. Continually bringing in slow, stiff bigs makes no sense when you want to play fast. Guards still dominate the game. If they can somehow get an impact guard to pair with DeJulius and a rim defending/rebounder I’d give them a shot next year.

What are these programs that are building tourney teams out of transfers in a single offseason?

Just off the top of my head Arkansas. Three of their top players are all transfers. Not saying it’s going to be the norm but it can be done with so many good players available.

How about UC 91-92?

Van Exel, Blount, Martin, Buford and Nelson weren't on the team the year before.

I understand Harvey wanting to transfer, but I don't understand opting out, which used to be known as quitting, in the middle of the season. That's got to be a concern for wherever he decides to opt in.

With how inconsistently our transfers in have been utilized, it's going to be an interesting sell to anyone at this point. We've had two starters, one guy who came in playing 30 minutes a game and left playing 10 (McNeal), and two who left mid-way through the year due to playing time/ability issues, one of which was a PotY in his conference prior to coming...so yeah...I doubt we're pulling in a group like that any time soon.
 
02-17-2021 09:59 AM
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robertfoshizzle Online
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Post: #34
RE: Harvey opts out
(02-17-2021 09:59 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 07:26 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 11:23 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 11:14 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 10:57 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  Disagree with the 5 years regardless of coach. With essentially FA now in college basketball you can definitely build a tournament roster in one offseason. The problem is this staff hasn’t exactly identified the right type of players and made the most of the transfer market. Continually bringing in slow, stiff bigs makes no sense when you want to play fast. Guards still dominate the game. If they can somehow get an impact guard to pair with DeJulius and a rim defending/rebounder I’d give them a shot next year.

What are these programs that are building tourney teams out of transfers in a single offseason?

Just off the top of my head Arkansas. Three of their top players are all transfers. Not saying it’s going to be the norm but it can be done with so many good players available.

How about UC 91-92?

Van Exel, Blount, Martin, Buford and Nelson weren't on the team the year before.

I understand Harvey wanting to transfer, but I don't understand opting out, which used to be known as quitting, in the middle of the season. That's got to be a concern for wherever he decides to opt in.

With how inconsistently our transfers in have been utilized, it's going to be an interesting sell to anyone at this point. We've had two starters, one guy who came in playing 30 minutes a game and left playing 10 (McNeal), and two who left mid-way through the year due to playing time/ability issues, one of which was a PotY in his conference prior to coming...so yeah...I doubt we're pulling in a group like that any time soon.

The really high-end transfers are looking to go to either blue blood type programs or established coaches. I agree with what someone said earlier... that Brannen may need to try to bring in someone on his staff who is a young up-and-comer with recruiting chops. I don't necessarily think Brannen is a bad recruiter, but he's working at a disadvantage with a short track record and a lot of roster turnover. Would love to find someone who is 30-ish and is willing to eat, sleep, and breathe recruiting. There are guys out there who are hungry to become head coaches, and will recruit tirelessly to get there.
 
02-17-2021 10:52 AM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Harvey opts out
(02-17-2021 07:22 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  First let me preface this with I am not criticizing college aged you adults who are going through tough mental situations. By all accounts no one is getting a true college experience and they are stuck in isolation most of the time.

But that said the overall pattern is concerning. We've had 3 players opt-out and leave their basketball-family not including Dou who left and came back. You compare that to football who has 7X as many scholarship players and had 0 leave; there's no doubt in my mind that's due to the culture Fick has built. I'm not criticizing Brannen, maybe with a rebuilding year it was going to be tough to keep the unit together, but at the very least he can look down the hall to see that the culture is everything to a program. Hopefully with the guys who want to be here that's what Brannen will develop over the next couple years.

I am not disagreeing with you. (Just wanted to say that at the outset...)

I am also NOT trying to reignite any "Mick vs. Bob" debates, or in this case "John vs. Bob" debates.

A little perspective might be good, however. Just to set things into context...
Up until last summer, I lived in Morgantown, WV, home of WVU and, of course, current residence of Bob Huggins. One of the perennial criticisms of Huggins is that he has a fairly high rate of transfers OUT of his program. Every year, he has at least two (2) players who decide not to return, two years ago he lost the majority of his projected starters through disciplinary dismissals and players quitting at the end of a fall semester. This has always been explained as "Huggins is a demanding coach." Players come in, and if they don't do what Huggins wants, he'll yell at them, bench them, and even run them off. Get into Huggins' dog-house, and it's notoriously hard to get back out of it. Huggins will even trash his players in interviews; if you're on his s*** list, everyone will hear about it.

A high transfer rate is not, in and of itself, a bad thing. Huggins weeds out kids who have a poor work ethic or are toxic personalities and what remains is a dedicated and hardworking group. As Nick Van Exel said when his kid was looking at schools: "I didn't go to 'the University of Cincinnati,' I went to 'Bob Huggins U.'" Conversely, if you are in Huggins' good graces, he will move heaven and earth to help you. The kids who make it through "Huggins U" are extremely dedicated to their coach and their teammates.

As others note, it's too early to tell what Brannen is building here. A high transfer rate is troubling, but it may-or-may-not mean anything...especially in this crazy COVID year. Maybe Brannen is in the midst of building a super-dedicated core group that will pay-off in the years to come. Maybe it's a sign of trouble. We're not likely to find out until a couple of years down the line.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2021 11:02 AM by BearcatJerry.)
02-17-2021 10:59 AM
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RE: Harvey opts out
Great post Jerry.
 
02-17-2021 11:06 AM
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RE: Harvey opts out
(02-17-2021 10:59 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(02-17-2021 07:22 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  First let me preface this with I am not criticizing college aged you adults who are going through tough mental situations. By all accounts no one is getting a true college experience and they are stuck in isolation most of the time.

But that said the overall pattern is concerning. We've had 3 players opt-out and leave their basketball-family not including Dou who left and came back. You compare that to football who has 7X as many scholarship players and had 0 leave; there's no doubt in my mind that's due to the culture Fick has built. I'm not criticizing Brannen, maybe with a rebuilding year it was going to be tough to keep the unit together, but at the very least he can look down the hall to see that the culture is everything to a program. Hopefully with the guys who want to be here that's what Brannen will develop over the next couple years.

I am not disagreeing with you. (Just wanted to say that at the outset...)

I am also NOT trying to reignite any "Mick vs. Bob" debates, or in this case "John vs. Bob" debates.

A little perspective might be good, however. Just to set things into context...
Up until last summer, I lived in Morgantown, WV, home of WVU and, of course, current residence of Bob Huggins. One of the perennial criticisms of Huggins is that he has a fairly high rate of transfers OUT of his program. Every year, he has at least two (2) players who decide not to return, two years ago he lost the majority of his projected starters through disciplinary dismissals and players quitting at the end of a fall semester. This has always been explained as "Huggins is a demanding coach." Players come in, and if they don't do what Huggins wants, he'll yell at them, bench them, and even run them off. Get into Huggins' dog-house, and it's notoriously hard to get back out of it. Huggins will even trash his players in interviews; if you're on his s*** list, everyone will hear about it.

A high transfer rate is not, in and of itself, a bad thing. Huggins weeds out kids who have a poor work ethic or are toxic personalities and what remains is a dedicated and hardworking group. As Nick Van Exel said when his kid was looking at schools: "I didn't go to 'the University of Cincinnati,' I went to 'Bob Huggins U.'" Conversely, if you are in Huggins' good graces, he will move heaven and earth to help you. The kids who make it through "Huggins U" are extremely dedicated to their coach and their teammates.

As others note, it's too early to tell what Brannen is building here. A high transfer rate is troubling, but it may-or-may-not mean anything...especially in this crazy COVID year. Maybe Brannen is in the midst of building a super-dedicated core group that will pay-off in the years to come. Maybe it's a sign of trouble. We're not likely to find out until a couple of years down the line.

The kids that get serious minutes for Huggins always look like they'd run through a brick wall for Huggins. Honestly, Mick team's generally had the same demeanor. I've yet to see the same intensity out of any of Brannen's players besides Tre Scott and I'm gonna chalk that up as a holdover from Mick. I think Davenport is very close to that point that he'd get minutes for Huggins not withstanding his skill level. I guess the roundabout point I'm trying to make is that this team doesn't give me the impression that they'd do anything for Brannen or are his guys through and through.
 
02-17-2021 12:05 PM
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RE: Harvey opts out
(02-17-2021 12:05 PM)skylinecat Wrote:  The kids that get serious minutes for Huggins always look like they'd run through a brick wall for Huggins. Honestly, Mick team's generally had the same demeanor. I've yet to see the same intensity out of any of Brannen's players besides Tre Scott and I'm gonna chalk that up as a holdover from Mick. I think Davenport is very close to that point that he'd get minutes for Huggins not withstanding his skill level. I guess the roundabout point I'm trying to make is that this team doesn't give me the impression that they'd do anything for Brannen or are his guys through and through.

I've had quite the opposite impression. They miss shots, they make mistakes, but I have never doubted these guys play incredibly hard and fight to the end. Is that for Brannen? I don't know. but I've never worried about their effort.
 
02-17-2021 12:25 PM
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RE: Harvey opts out
(02-17-2021 06:47 AM)BrooklynRocket Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 11:02 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 09:14 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Everything I've seen regarding Eason indicates he's staying.

There was apparently a rumor going around a few days ago that he would be headed to the PAC 10 which included an old Mick quote, but mama Eason completely denied on twitter. I was looking for it (haven't found it yet) but I did find these OLD tweets which are sort of on topic:





I'd like to take these quotes for face value, but the article below makes me think otherwise.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...065407002/

There's no way Jarron would trash Brannen on social media if their relationship was anything close to what was described in this article.

Article is regarding Cumberland and not Eason. The Cronin's are floating the Eason rumor.
 
02-17-2021 12:26 PM
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RE: Harvey opts out
(02-17-2021 06:47 AM)BrooklynRocket Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 11:02 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 09:14 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Everything I've seen regarding Eason indicates he's staying.

There was apparently a rumor going around a few days ago that he would be headed to the PAC 10 which included an old Mick quote, but mama Eason completely denied on twitter. I was looking for it (haven't found it yet) but I did find these OLD tweets which are sort of on topic:





I'd like to take these quotes for face value, but the article below makes me think otherwise.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...065407002/

There's no way Jarron would trash Brannen on social media if their relationship was anything close to what was described in this article.

I don't understand what you are getting at. What do those quotes have to do with Jarron?
 
02-17-2021 12:32 PM
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