Republicans need to understand something. If you can't win elections, then nothing else matters. The Trump "base" is not large enough to win elections. Republicans need a broader coalition to win consistently. Yes, there might have been some monkey business to swing a few electoral votes, but even if enough for Trump to have won, he was still losing the popular vote. And while republicans gained seats in the HOR, they still lost more than they won. And they lost seats in the senate.

I think it's largely about being dependent on personalities rather than issues. Democrats win on personalities, particularly because their friends in the MSM paint them in the most favorable light possible and republicans in the worst light possible. But if republicans make is about issues, like Newt in 1994, then the MSM has to cover issues. And republicans can win that. Democrats are going to hand them issues by the bucketload. Republicans better not screw up 2022 or 2024

(02-16-2021 01:23 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(02-16-2021 01:03 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(02-16-2021 12:40 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  My my...what happened to Nikki Haley being the golden child? She speaks out against Trump and how quickly the tide turns.

It's called being a free thinker.

I thought it was called not knowing the base.

I mean us, we can decide shes a dope despite their fixation on all things Trump.

(02-16-2021 01:27 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Republicans need to understand something. If you can't win elections, then nothing else matters. The Trump "base" is not large enough to win elections. Yes, there might have been some monkey business to swing a few electoral votes, but even if enough for Trump to have won, he was still losing the popular vote. And while republicans gained seats in the HOR, they still lost more than they won. And they lost seats in the senate.

I think it's largely about being dependent on personalities rather than issues. Democrats win on personalities, particularly because their friends in the MSM paint them in the most favorable light possible and republicans in the worst light possible. But if republicans make is about issues, like Newt in 1994, then the MSM has to cover issues. And republicans can win that.

Trumps "base" is larger than any base in the history of the country. Trump received more primary votes this year than any incumbent in history, and it happened during a pandemic.

The only issue with Trump's base is that it will never be large enough to overcome voter fraud that can be perpetuated when safeguards are removed. Nobodies base is.

The issue is not Trumps base. The issue is ensuring voting safeguards are enforced.

in other words, the Dems cheated.

Prove me wrong.

(02-16-2021 01:33 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  in other words, the Dems cheated.

Prove me wrong.

You made the accusation, therefore it is your burden to prove.

(02-16-2021 01:31 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-16-2021 01:27 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Republicans need to understand something. If you can't win elections, then nothing else matters. The Trump "base" is not large enough to win elections. Yes, there might have been some monkey business to swing a few electoral votes, but even if enough for Trump to have won, he was still losing the popular vote. And while republicans gained seats in the HOR, they still lost more than they won. And they lost seats in the senate.
I think it's largely about being dependent on personalities rather than issues. Democrats win on personalities, particularly because their friends in the MSM paint them in the most favorable light possible and republicans in the worst light possible. But if republicans make is about issues, like Newt in 1994, then the MSM has to cover issues. And republicans can win that.

Trumps "base" is larger than any base in the history of the country. Trump received more primary votes this year than any incumbent in history, and it happened during a pandemic.
The only issue with Trump's base is that it will never be large enough to overcome voter fraud that can be perpetuated when safeguards are removed. Nobodies base is.
The issue is not Trumps base. The issue is ensuring voting safeguards are enforced.

But it's not large enough to win consistently. Trump took the democrat formula of making it about personalities in the republican primaries and came out ahead, mainly because the MSM figured he was the easiest one to beat, so they played it up. Then he did the same thing with Hillary. But given the size of the split in the popular vote, it would have been a very unusual accomplishment for him to win the EV in 2020. He did it once, but the odds were very much against doing it twice, even against a senile pedophile and a commie woman of bad morals. I realize there were a lot of irregularities, and that enough states to swing the EV total might have been affected. But trying to win the EV with a huge loss in the popular vote is very much weaving a tight course, and I think broader appeal has a better chance.

Make it about issues, and republicans can win by wider margins than can be stolen from them. Particularly if the economy goes where I expect it to go in the next 3-1/2 years.

(02-16-2021 01:31 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-16-2021 01:27 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Republicans need to understand something. If you can't win elections, then nothing else matters. The Trump "base" is not large enough to win elections. Yes, there might have been some monkey business to swing a few electoral votes, but even if enough for Trump to have won, he was still losing the popular vote. And while republicans gained seats in the HOR, they still lost more than they won. And they lost seats in the senate.

I think it's largely about being dependent on personalities rather than issues. Democrats win on personalities, particularly because their friends in the MSM paint them in the most favorable light possible and republicans in the worst light possible. But if republicans make is about issues, like Newt in 1994, then the MSM has to cover issues. And republicans can win that.

Trumps "base" is larger than any base in the history of the country. Trump received more primary votes this year than any incumbent in history, and it happened during a pandemic.

The only issue with Trump's base is that it will never be large enough to overcome voter fraud that can be perpetuated when safeguards are removed. Nobodies base is.

The issue is not Trumps base. The issue is ensuring voting safeguards are enforced.

Owl's point still stands.

Presuming your are correct on all of these statements - - and I suspect you are - - this was a KNOWN condition going into the 2020 election. Yet President Trump refused to temper his behavior, essentially inviting a hostile media to paint him in as bad a light as possible.

Then, after the election, he compounded the problem by acting like a child who didn't get his way on the playground. And in doing so managed to lose two very winnable Senate elections in Georgia.

Vote fraud is unacceptable, and has the potential to ruin our nation. There are plenty of Americans who want to repair the damage done to this country by ill-intentioned, underhanded progressives. It will be an easier task if former President Trump stays out of the way.

(02-16-2021 09:29 AM)king king Wrote:  If you're a public figure with thousands of followers, you should fact check your post before sending it out. It's stupid to invite other people to do it for you and does nothing but make you look stupid, even if it is more semantic than anything.

Yep

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

(02-16-2021 01:27 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Republicans need to understand something. If you can't win elections, then nothing else matters. The Trump "base" is not large enough to win elections. Republicans need a broader coalition to win consistently. Yes, there might have been some monkey business to swing a few electoral votes, but even if enough for Trump to have won, he was still losing the popular vote. And while republicans gained seats in the HOR, they still lost more than they won. And they lost seats in the senate.

I think it's largely about being dependent on personalities rather than issues. Democrats win on personalities, particularly because their friends in the MSM paint them in the most favorable light possible and republicans in the worst light possible. But if republicans make is about issues, like Newt in 1994, then the MSM has to cover issues. And republicans can win that. Democrats are going to hand them issues by the bucketload. Republicans better not screw up 2022 or 2024

The GOP is splintered at the moment. The factions consist of Trump supporters and never-Trumpers. The larger faction -- by far -- is the group of Trump supporters. So it seems the never-Trumpers are the ones who need to get a grip and listen to the people.

Again, this isn't about Trump. It's about party leadership that turned its back on its base years ago. The real problem they are facing today is that the vast majority of people in the base are done with their style of politics and now have more than ample voice to demand change within the leadership.

On their watch we've seen radical leftist groups assume ever increasing control over daily life, culture, values and policy. They have been ineffective at best and complicit at worst. I personally believe the bulk of the entrenched party establishment leadership has been complicit, and willfully so.

As far as being able to win elections, I don't understand your statement, "And while republicans gained seats in the HOR, they still lost more than they won." I'm not sure how that works -- to pick up seats but have a net loss. I'm assuming I'm missing context of your point.

Until I see evidential results of state-by-state election audits I will not believe that certain districts weren't tampered with. I don't believe that a President who won the most votes in American history lost to a challenger who outperformed BHO by winning a record number of votes using relaxed mail-in processes across multiple states. I don't believe that millions of Americans using the mail-in ballots for the first time were so efficient that the error rate fell from a national average of 6% rejected ballots to 0.4%.

Too many statistical anomalies occurred at the same time, which itself is a red flag.

I don't know if Trump would have won the popular vote had there not been election fraud issues, but given his record number of votes I tend to think he would have. Regardless, as we know, fortunately presidential elections are not decided on popular vote. Of course, state elections are and Republicans don't have any problem winning their fair share of those.

(02-16-2021 01:37 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(02-16-2021 01:33 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  in other words, the Dems cheated.

Prove me wrong.

You made the accusation, therefore it is your burden to prove.

There's plenty of evidence. It would help if courts actually heard the cases and decided them on merit.

This article provides a great summary of election day issues: AMAZING FLASHBACK from November 8: Complete List of Suspected Fraud Issues in 2020 Election Sorted by State with Recommended Actions on How to Address. It also includes issues from the following states:

• Arizona
• Georgia
• Michigan
• Nevada
• North Carolina
• Pennsylvania
• Virginia
• Wisconsin
  

(02-16-2021 01:33 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  in other words, the Dems cheated.

Prove me wrong.

They told us they would then did
Helk yeah they cheated.

(02-16-2021 02:41 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  There's plenty of evidence. It would help if courts actually heard the cases and decided them on merit.
This article provides a great summary of election day issues: AMAZING FLASHBACK from November 8: Complete List of Suspected Fraud Issues in 2020 Election Sorted by State with Recommended Actions on How to Address. It also includes issues from the following states:

• Arizona
• Georgia
• Michigan
• Nevada
• North Carolina
• Pennsylvania
• Virginia
• Wisconsin
  

But here's my question. How do Arizona, Georgia, and North Carolina even get close enough to steal? And given the democrat domestic and economic platforms, how do Michigan and Pennsylvania? I can understand Nevada (sorta), Virginia (too many bureaucrats in DC Metro), and Wisconsin. But at least some of those other states ought to be solidly republican if they make it about issues.

Be nice to Nikki. She is your next potus nominee.

(02-16-2021 01:23 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(02-16-2021 01:03 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(02-16-2021 12:40 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  My my...what happened to Nikki Haley being the golden child? She speaks out against Trump and how quickly the tide turns.

It's called being a free thinker.

I thought it was called not knowing the base.

Sounds like Nikki was the free thinker in this case, understanding that Trump is a hot mess and taking a step back from the maga-cult.

(02-16-2021 09:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-16-2021 02:41 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  There's plenty of evidence. It would help if courts actually heard the cases and decided them on merit.
This article provides a great summary of election day issues: AMAZING FLASHBACK from November 8: Complete List of Suspected Fraud Issues in 2020 Election Sorted by State with Recommended Actions on How to Address. It also includes issues from the following states:

• Arizona
• Georgia
• Michigan
• Nevada
• North Carolina
• Pennsylvania
• Virginia
• Wisconsin
  

But here's my question. How do Arizona, Georgia, and North Carolina even get close enough to steal? And given the democrat domestic and economic platforms, how do Michigan and Pennsylvania? I can understand Nevada (sorta), Virginia (too many bureaucrats in DC Metro), and Wisconsin. But at least some of those other states ought to be solidly republican if they make it about issues.

Trump had a 750,000-ish vote lead on election night before the ballot dump. That type of margin couldn't be considered "close."

Given that the radleft was able to make up that kind of deficit in just a matter of a couple of hours, how do we know they haven't been doing that for a few election cycles in North Carolina and, say, Virginia?

And this is what alarms me -- I now have to assume we lost election integrity years/decades ago. I no longer know that some of these Blue states would remain Blue if fraud was removed.

(02-16-2021 07:28 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  LOL at anyone who follows and posts Kyle Griffin tweets. All he does is constantly tweet anti GOP/Trump/Conservative stuff all day long. He is as bad as the Krasserstein bros.

Twitter rots the brain.

(02-17-2021 12:02 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(02-16-2021 09:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-16-2021 02:41 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  There's plenty of evidence. It would help if courts actually heard the cases and decided them on merit.
This article provides a great summary of election day issues: AMAZING FLASHBACK from November 8: Complete List of Suspected Fraud Issues in 2020 Election Sorted by State with Recommended Actions on How to Address. It also includes issues from the following states:

• Arizona
• Georgia
• Michigan
• Nevada
• North Carolina
• Pennsylvania
• Virginia
• Wisconsin
  

But here's my question. How do Arizona, Georgia, and North Carolina even get close enough to steal? And given the democrat domestic and economic platforms, how do Michigan and Pennsylvania? I can understand Nevada (sorta), Virginia (too many bureaucrats in DC Metro), and Wisconsin. But at least some of those other states ought to be solidly republican if they make it about issues.

Trump had a 750,000-ish vote lead on election night before the ballot dump. That type of margin couldn't be considered "close."
Given that the radleft was able to make up that kind of deficit in just a matter of a couple of hours, how do we know they haven't been doing that for a few election cycles in North Carolina and, say, Virginia?
And this is what alarms me -- I now have to assume we lost election integrity years/decades ago. I no longer know that some of these Blue states would remain Blue if fraud was removed.

Republicans control legislature and governor in Arizona and Georgia, and legislature but not governor in North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Michigan (and Wisconsin). If they play hardball they should be able to get election rules that curtail election fraud in each of those states, plus putting them in place in a bunch of heretofore solidly republican states as preemptive moves.

Republicans need to understand three things:
1) You can't do anything without winning elections, so that needs to be first priority, like it is with democrats.
2) Republicans tend to win election about issues and lose elections about personalities, so make elections about issues.
3) People like Sens. Collins and Murkowski may not vote the way you want on every issue, but when it comes to important stuff like deciding who is the majority and who is the minority, every R behind a name counts, so it may be just as important to elect a pro-choice R in Maine as to elect a pro-life R in Oklahoma.

Probably a fourth thing--The sooner Milquetoast Mitch shuts up and goes away, the better.

(02-16-2021 02:06 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(02-16-2021 01:27 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Republicans need to understand something. If you can't win elections, then nothing else matters. The Trump "base" is not large enough to win elections. Republicans need a broader coalition to win consistently. Yes, there might have been some monkey business to swing a few electoral votes, but even if enough for Trump to have won, he was still losing the popular vote. And while republicans gained seats in the HOR, they still lost more than they won. And they lost seats in the senate.

I think it's largely about being dependent on personalities rather than issues. Democrats win on personalities, particularly because their friends in the MSM paint them in the most favorable light possible and republicans in the worst light possible. But if republicans make is about issues, like Newt in 1994, then the MSM has to cover issues. And republicans can win that. Democrats are going to hand them issues by the bucketload. Republicans better not screw up 2022 or 2024

The GOP is splintered at the moment. The factions consist of Trump supporters and never-Trumpers. The larger faction -- by far -- is the group of Trump supporters. So it seems the never-Trumpers are the ones who need to get a grip and listen to the people.

Again, this isn't about Trump. It's about party leadership that turned its back on its base years ago. The real problem they are facing today is that the vast majority of people in the base are done with their style of politics and now have more than ample voice to demand change within the leadership.

On their watch we've seen radical leftist groups assume ever increasing control over daily life, culture, values and policy. They have been ineffective at best and complicit at worst. I personally believe the bulk of the entrenched party establishment leadership has been complicit, and willfully so.

As far as being able to win elections, I don't understand your statement, "And while republicans gained seats in the HOR, they still lost more than they won." I'm not sure how that works -- to pick up seats but have a net loss. I'm assuming I'm missing context of your point.

Until I see evidential results of state-by-state election audits I will not believe that certain districts weren't tampered with. I don't believe that a President who won the most votes in American history lost to a challenger who outperformed BHO by winning a record number of votes using relaxed mail-in processes across multiple states. I don't believe that millions of Americans using the mail-in ballots for the first time were so efficient that the error rate fell from a national average of 6% rejected ballots to 0.4%.

Too many statistical anomalies occurred at the same time, which itself is a red flag.

I don't know if Trump would have won the popular vote had there not been election fraud issues, but given his record number of votes I tend to think he would have. Regardless, as we know, fortunately presidential elections are not decided on popular vote. Of course, state elections are and Republicans don't have any problem winning their fair share of those.

Its pretty hard to find never-Trumpers outside of DC and Utah. They are a miniscule number.

The Trump base is probably 1/3 of the Republicans. The rest is splintered among hardcore conservatives, the religious right, libertarians, main st. Republicans and a some moderates.

(02-16-2021 02:06 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(02-16-2021 01:27 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Republicans need to understand something. If you can't win elections, then nothing else matters. The Trump "base" is not large enough to win elections. Republicans need a broader coalition to win consistently. Yes, there might have been some monkey business to swing a few electoral votes, but even if enough for Trump to have won, he was still losing the popular vote. And while republicans gained seats in the HOR, they still lost more than they won. And they lost seats in the senate.

I think it's largely about being dependent on personalities rather than issues. Democrats win on personalities, particularly because their friends in the MSM paint them in the most favorable light possible and republicans in the worst light possible. But if republicans make is about issues, like Newt in 1994, then the MSM has to cover issues. And republicans can win that. Democrats are going to hand them issues by the bucketload. Republicans better not screw up 2022 or 2024

The GOP is splintered at the moment. The factions consist of Trump supporters and never-Trumpers...

No need to go any farther, that is the problem. That is why I say, eliminate the problem. Drop Trump, but find someone that espouses Trump's issues. Populist/Libertarians Like Ted Cruz and Rand Paul. Trump is too easy to hate, and as much as I wanted Trump to win the last election because of who he IS NOT, I would rather go with someone on the right side of the isle who can actually win.

I see the same issue with Candice Owens.... God, I love her..... and the MSM would devour her. It seems ridiculous to think that they would paint her as a sexist racist bigot, but amazingly, that is what they would do. And the mental midgets out there would lap it up like dessert.

In her own defense:

Quote:I will gladly defend the bulk of the Trump record and his determination to shake up the corrupt status quo in Washington. I will never defend the indefensible. I didn’t do that when I served alongside President Trump, and I’m not going to start now.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-media-t...opin_pos_1

I see lots of self-congratulatory statements on this forum to the effect of "I will criticize President Trump when warranted ...", followed invariably by some blind defense of whatever idiotic, offensive or unjustified statement or action has just issued from the former president.

The Biden/Harris administration is on a mission to destroy America. I firmly believe that and pray that it can be halted and reversed. Whoever is prepared to stand up in opposition to the progressive attack on our nation has my support - - even if it happens to be Nikki Haley, Ben Sasse, Mitch McConnell, or whomever. I find it absurd to blindly discredit someone who is willing to fight for America simply for refusing to kiss DJT's ugly ass when he unnecessarily exposed it.