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JJ should have a winning season, but
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monarx Offline
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Post: #21
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
Figure Id bump this to the top so its easy to find when we want to start talking about firing Jeff Jones and speculating about who our new coach will be. Personally, Id love to go after the guy at UNCG.
03-12-2021 09:10 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #22
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
Your best bet will be to hope Jeffs wife asks him to hang it up.
03-12-2021 09:19 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #23
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
My best bet is to hope our admin grows a pair with the new president coming in and decides that the product they are putting on the basketball court is not good enough and respectfully ask JJ to move on.
03-12-2021 09:34 AM
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ODUBB35 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
First of all, I want to thank JJ, staff, and players for an entertaining last few months. It was quite a remarkable turnaround after a horrible start and the monstrosity that was last season. Honestly, after being blown out by FIU in the conference opener, I wondered if we would win another game all season. To go from that to splitting with UAB and WKU on the road to get the double-bye in the tournament was quite a feat, and may have been JJ's best coaching job to date. He got the team playing hard together in a tough situation, and is correct that they came along way this season.

However, this last month or so was enjoyable because our lowered expectations due to shoddy play early on allowed us to separate this season from the big picture. The reality is that we were not that good, and that the #2 seed in the East was likely a fortunate result of scheduling cancellations. We were able to avoid series with LA Tech, North Texas, both of whom Marshall played (though they were able to avoid UAB). Not to get too far into hypotheticals, but scheduling those two would likely have resulted in at least two more losses (and I'm not sure we would have swept UTEP or UTSA either). Not to take away from the gritty efforts of the last few weeks, but a full schedule would have likely revealed that we are a mediocre team in a conference that isn't all that good. That's the reality of the big picture, and that reality hit home last night.

As Giles stated, we lost to a better team, and it's hard to overcome 21 points from 3 pointers (it was actually 27, but the point is taken). They hit 9-20 from downtown. All true, and the Monarchs put forth a solid effort despite being smaller and less talented. We got very little from Reece or Green. Hunter had been playing so well lately, but had an off night. If he hits a few of those shots, it's a different ball game.

But the big picture question: Why is North Texas more talented? Yes, they are a veteran group but so are we. I'm tired of hearing that it's because we are in CUSA. That fact hasn't stopped North Texas from recruiting talent. How the hell is North Texas outrecruiting us? They have neither the facilities, the budget, not the history that we have.

Ezikpe and Trice are warriors, but for those who think that size doesn't matter, UNT proved otherwise. Their frontline was 6'10" and 6'10" as opposed to our 6'7" and 6'8" (and those heights are doubtful, I would put Trice closer to 6'5"). It wasn't an effort issue from our guys. It came down to size (again, recruiting).

Don't look now, but teams like Rice and FAU are gaining on us. UNT and Marshall have already passed us by. JMU is also in our rearview mirror while we are stagnant. We need a change.

Granted, it took Kermit Davis 10 years are so to have success at MTSU, and once they lost him, they haven't been the same. W&M got rid of the only coach that even had moderate success, and they stink. However, they have always stunk.

So yes, there is a risk that we could end up biting pillows if we change coaches. I just don't see us going anywhere with the status quo. So many schools land bigs and shooters and we can't seem to land any. I know it's all hypothetical, and the late season run gave us just enough confidence to say "wait until next year". But I don't want to wait around for Bryant Stith's grandsons to take us to our next title. It's time for a change.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2021 09:50 AM by ODUBB35.)
03-12-2021 09:42 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #25
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 09:42 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  First of all, I want to thank JJ, staff, and players for an entertaining last few months. It was quite a remarkable turnaround after a horrible start and the monstrosity that was last season. Honestly, after being blown out by FIU in the conference opener, I wondered if we would win another game all season. To go from that to splitting with UAB and WKU on the road to get the double-bye in the tournament was quite a feat, and may have been JJ's best coaching job to date. He got the team playing hard together in a tough situation, and is correct that they came along way this season.

However, this last month or so was enjoyable because our lowered expectations due to shoddy play early on allowed us to separate this season from the big picture. The reality is that we were not that good, and that the #2 seed in the East was likely a fortunate result of scheduling cancellations. We were able to avoid series with LA Tech, North Texas, both of whom Marshall played (though they were able to avoid UAB). Not to get too far into hypotheticals, but cheduling those two would likely have resulted in at least two more losses (and I'm not sure we would have swept UTEP or UTSA either). Not to take away from the gritty efforts of the last few weeks, but a full schedule would have likely revealed that we are a mediocre team in a conference that isn't all that good. That's the reality of the big picture, and that reality hit home last night.

As Giles stated, we lost to a better team, and it's hard to overcome 21 points from 3 pointers (it was actually 27, but the point is taken). They hit 9-20 from downtown. All true, and the Monarchs put forth a solid effort despite being smaller and less talented. We got very little from Reece or Green. Hunter had been playing so well lately, but had an off night. If he hits a few of those shots, it's a different ball game.

But the big picture question: Why is North Texas more talented? Yes, they are a veteran group but so are we. I'm tired of hearing that it's because we are in CUSA. That fact hasn't stopped North Texas from recruiting talent. How the hell is North Texas outrecruiting us? They have neither the facilities, the budget, not the history that we have.

Ezikpe and Trice are warriors, but for those who think that size doesn't matter, UNT proved otherwise. Their frontline was 6'10" and 6'10" as opposed to our 6'7" and 6'8" (and those heights are doubtful, I would put Trice closer to 6'5"). It wasn't an effort issue from our guys. It came down to size (again, recruiting).

Don't look now, but teams like Rice and FAU are gaining on us. UNT and Marshall have already passed us by. JMU is also in our rearview mirror while we are stagnant. We need a change.

Granted, it took Kermit Davis 10 years are so to have success at MTSU, and once they lost him, they haven't been the same. W&M got rid of the only coach that even had moderate success, and they stink. However, they have always stunk.

So yes, there is a risk that we could end up biting pillows if we change coaches. I just don't see us going anywhere with the status quo. So many schools land bigs and shooters and we can't seem to land any. I know it's all hypothetical, and the late season run gave us just enough confidence to say "wait until next year". But I don't want to wait around for Bryant Stith's grandsons to take us to our next title. But it's time for a change.

Well said.

I would add that the risk of replacing a coach is not nearly as big if you are really committed to basketball and are willing to fire him as soon as it is apparent that he will not have the success that you are looking for. Using W&M as an example, and I thought from day 1 that firing Shaver was monumentally stupid, but it is really clear that the coach they hired will not elevate that program beyond the level Shaver had them at. It is time to fire him now. If you take that approach, you can minimize the damage that a coach can cause if you do make a terrible hire. The reality for us, though, is that if we spend the necessary money to hire a coach it is unlikely that we end up in a worse situation that JJ currently has us in.

I happen to believe that ODU Basketball has an extremely high floor, and that JJ is not too far from it.
03-12-2021 09:55 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #26
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
While I am convinced that the current state of ODU basketball is unacceptable, I am not convinced JJ is the problem. We have to find a way to remove the obstacles and get into a conference that makes sense for us. I'm afraid a new coach would just be sweeping sand from one side of the room to the other.
03-12-2021 10:07 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #27
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 09:42 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  First of all, I want to thank JJ, staff, and players for an entertaining last few months. It was quite a remarkable turnaround after a horrible start and the monstrosity that was last season. Honestly, after being blown out by FIU in the conference opener, I wondered if we would win another game all season. To go from that to splitting with UAB and WKU on the road to get the double-bye in the tournament was quite a feat, and may have been JJ's best coaching job to date. He got the team playing hard together in a tough situation, and is correct that they came along way this season.

However, this last month or so was enjoyable because our lowered expectations due to shoddy play early on allowed us to separate this season from the big picture. The reality is that we were not that good, and that the #2 seed in the East was likely a fortunate result of scheduling cancellations. We were able to avoid series with LA Tech, North Texas, both of whom Marshall played (though they were able to avoid UAB). Not to get too far into hypotheticals, but scheduling those two would likely have resulted in at least two more losses (and I'm not sure we would have swept UTEP or UTSA either). Not to take away from the gritty efforts of the last few weeks, but a full schedule would have likely revealed that we are a mediocre team in a conference that isn't all that good. That's the reality of the big picture, and that reality hit home last night.

As Giles stated, we lost to a better team, and it's hard to overcome 21 points from 3 pointers (it was actually 27, but the point is taken). They hit 9-20 from downtown. All true, and the Monarchs put forth a solid effort despite being smaller and less talented. We got very little from Reece or Green. Hunter had been playing so well lately, but had an off night. If he hits a few of those shots, it's a different ball game.

But the big picture question: Why is North Texas more talented? Yes, they are a veteran group but so are we. I'm tired of hearing that it's because we are in CUSA. That fact hasn't stopped North Texas from recruiting talent. How the hell is North Texas outrecruiting us? They have neither the facilities, the budget, not the history that we have.

Ezikpe and Trice are warriors, but for those who think that size doesn't matter, UNT proved otherwise. Their frontline was 6'10" and 6'10" as opposed to our 6'7" and 6'8" (and those heights are doubtful, I would put Trice closer to 6'5"). It wasn't an effort issue from our guys. It came down to size (again, recruiting).

Don't look now, but teams like Rice and FAU are gaining on us. UNT and Marshall have already passed us by. JMU is also in our rearview mirror while we are stagnant. We need a change.

Granted, it took Kermit Davis 10 years are so to have success at MTSU, and once they lost him, they haven't been the same. W&M got rid of the only coach that even had moderate success, and they stink. However, they have always stunk.

So yes, there is a risk that we could end up biting pillows if we change coaches. I just don't see us going anywhere with the status quo. So many schools land bigs and shooters and we can't seem to land any. I know it's all hypothetical, and the late season run gave us just enough confidence to say "wait until next year". But I don't want to wait around for Bryant Stith's grandsons to take us to our next title. It's time for a change.

We hit 2 threes, they hit 9.

Remember we are without possibly our best player this year. I don't want to make excuses, you have to play with what you have, but I don't know that they out recruited us. We essentially played them toe to toe without Wade. Granted, we have to get better but it's a little too soon to say they've passed us. Marshall certainly has not, what have they ever done to pass us? They are a perinnial 150 team (last 5 years have seen 147, 149, 105, 157, 143) before they just had their best year under D'Antoni (before the quick exit). Rice is barely a top 200 team. We were significantly better than JMU.

They didn't beat us because of the front court battle. There 2 went for 17 points and 11 rebounds on 15 shots while ours went for 15 points and 7 rebounds on 13 shots. They won because they have guys that can hit open 3 pointers. In a low possession game, you cannot be outscored by 20 points behind the arc and expect to win. McBride, Reece, and Bell can all shoot. We got Hunter, Curry, Oliver jacking up 3s like they can shoot but are all low 30s 3 point shooters.

I always felt that this team would take us as far as Green would take us. Im surprised we won as many games as we did with how bad he was offensively.

Hunter and Long came on as the year progressed and hopefully they improve with a real offseason. We are going to need more from Oliver and Reece next year.

Agree with a lot of your points outside of the doom and gloom program outlook. Also don't agree with the bigs comment. Im not opposed to letting Jones enjoy retirement either.
03-12-2021 10:12 AM
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bit_9 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 10:12 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 09:42 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  First of all, I want to thank JJ, staff, and players for an entertaining last few months. It was quite a remarkable turnaround after a horrible start and the monstrosity that was last season. Honestly, after being blown out by FIU in the conference opener, I wondered if we would win another game all season. To go from that to splitting with UAB and WKU on the road to get the double-bye in the tournament was quite a feat, and may have been JJ's best coaching job to date. He got the team playing hard together in a tough situation, and is correct that they came along way this season.

However, this last month or so was enjoyable because our lowered expectations due to shoddy play early on allowed us to separate this season from the big picture. The reality is that we were not that good, and that the #2 seed in the East was likely a fortunate result of scheduling cancellations. We were able to avoid series with LA Tech, North Texas, both of whom Marshall played (though they were able to avoid UAB). Not to get too far into hypotheticals, but scheduling those two would likely have resulted in at least two more losses (and I'm not sure we would have swept UTEP or UTSA either). Not to take away from the gritty efforts of the last few weeks, but a full schedule would have likely revealed that we are a mediocre team in a conference that isn't all that good. That's the reality of the big picture, and that reality hit home last night.

As Giles stated, we lost to a better team, and it's hard to overcome 21 points from 3 pointers (it was actually 27, but the point is taken). They hit 9-20 from downtown. All true, and the Monarchs put forth a solid effort despite being smaller and less talented. We got very little from Reece or Green. Hunter had been playing so well lately, but had an off night. If he hits a few of those shots, it's a different ball game.

But the big picture question: Why is North Texas more talented? Yes, they are a veteran group but so are we. I'm tired of hearing that it's because we are in CUSA. That fact hasn't stopped North Texas from recruiting talent. How the hell is North Texas outrecruiting us? They have neither the facilities, the budget, not the history that we have.

Ezikpe and Trice are warriors, but for those who think that size doesn't matter, UNT proved otherwise. Their frontline was 6'10" and 6'10" as opposed to our 6'7" and 6'8" (and those heights are doubtful, I would put Trice closer to 6'5"). It wasn't an effort issue from our guys. It came down to size (again, recruiting).

Don't look now, but teams like Rice and FAU are gaining on us. UNT and Marshall have already passed us by. JMU is also in our rearview mirror while we are stagnant. We need a change.

Granted, it took Kermit Davis 10 years are so to have success at MTSU, and once they lost him, they haven't been the same. W&M got rid of the only coach that even had moderate success, and they stink. However, they have always stunk.

So yes, there is a risk that we could end up biting pillows if we change coaches. I just don't see us going anywhere with the status quo. So many schools land bigs and shooters and we can't seem to land any. I know it's all hypothetical, and the late season run gave us just enough confidence to say "wait until next year". But I don't want to wait around for Bryant Stith's grandsons to take us to our next title. It's time for a change.

We hit 2 threes, they hit 9.

Remember we are without possibly our best player this year. I don't want to make excuses, you have to play with what you have, but I don't know that they out recruited us. We essentially played them toe to toe without Wade. Granted, we have to get better but it's a little too soon to say they've passed us. Marshall certainly has not, what have they ever done to pass us? They are a perinnial 150 team (last 5 years have seen 147, 149, 105, 157, 143) before they just had their best year under D'Antoni (before the quick exit). Rice is barely a top 200 team. We were significantly better than JMU.

They didn't beat us because of the front court battle. There 2 went for 17 points and 11 rebounds on 15 shots while ours went for 15 points and 7 rebounds on 13 shots. They won because they have guys that can hit open 3 pointers. In a low possession game, you cannot be outscored by 20 points behind the arc and expect to win. McBride, Reece, and Bell can all shoot. We got Hunter, Curry, Oliver jacking up 3s like they can shoot but are all low 30s 3 point shooters.

I always felt that this team would take us as far as Green would take us. Im surprised we won as many games as we did with how bad he was offensively.

Hunter and Long came on as the year progressed and hopefully they improve with a real offseason. We are going to need more from Oliver and Reece next year.

Agree with a lot of your points outside of the doom and gloom program outlook. Also don't agree with the bigs comment. Im not opposed to letting Jones enjoy retirement either.

I'm with ya on Green. He had all the intangibles but just couldn't get over something between the ears it seems. I hope Kalu hangs around and doesn't bolt like there's been some foreshadowing of. He too has such a high ceiling and we saw flashes of it in several games.
03-12-2021 10:16 AM
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MONARCHSWIN Offline
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Post: #29
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 10:07 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  While I am convinced that the current state of ODU basketball is unacceptable, I am not convinced JJ is the problem. We have to find a way to remove the obstacles and get into a conference that makes sense for us. I'm afraid a new coach would just be sweeping sand from one side of the room to the other.

We have to dominate the league year after year before we start blaming our problems on CUSA. Right now, we are a middling program in a middling conference and you can't blame our poor performance on our conference mates. Winning fixes everything and right now our coach and staff are not getting it done on the court. We have to look in the mirror.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2021 01:57 PM by MONARCHSWIN.)
03-12-2021 10:49 AM
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RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 10:49 AM)MONARCHSWIN Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 10:07 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  While I am convinced that the current state of ODU basketball is unacceptable, I am not convinced JJ is the problem. We have to find a way to remove the obstacles and get into a conference that makes sense for us. I'm afraid a new coach would just be sweeping sand from one side of the room to the other.

We have to dominate the league year after year before we start blaming our problems on CUSA. Right now, we are a middling program in a middling conference and you can't blame our poor performance on our conference mates. Winning fixes everything and right not our coach and staff are not getting it done on the court. We have to look in the mirror.

The conference and the travel in particular are probably a big recruiting problem. Who wants to spend half the week on a bus?
03-12-2021 10:59 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #31
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
You keep talking about a bus. These guys aren't taking a lot of bus trips.
03-12-2021 11:07 AM
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Post: #32
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 10:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 10:49 AM)MONARCHSWIN Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 10:07 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  While I am convinced that the current state of ODU basketball is unacceptable, I am not convinced JJ is the problem. We have to find a way to remove the obstacles and get into a conference that makes sense for us. I'm afraid a new coach would just be sweeping sand from one side of the room to the other.

We have to dominate the league year after year before we start blaming our problems on CUSA. Right now, we are a middling program in a middling conference and you can't blame our poor performance on our conference mates. Winning fixes everything and right not our coach and staff are not getting it done on the court. We have to look in the mirror.

The conference and the travel in particular are probably a big recruiting problem. Who wants to spend half the week on a bus?

Monarchswin is absolutely correct.

If we moved to A10, where we would admittedly have access to higher profile recruits, we would still be recruiting on a more or less equal footing with everyone else in that conference. If we are "middling" in the A10, we still would not go to the NCAAT.

We have the same travel/conference recruiting issues as the rest of the conference in CUSA. We need to win it and/or go the the Dance at least every four years in THIS conference before we can piss and moan that the deck is stacked against us. It is not.

04-cheers
03-12-2021 11:25 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 11:25 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 10:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 10:49 AM)MONARCHSWIN Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 10:07 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  While I am convinced that the current state of ODU basketball is unacceptable, I am not convinced JJ is the problem. We have to find a way to remove the obstacles and get into a conference that makes sense for us. I'm afraid a new coach would just be sweeping sand from one side of the room to the other.

We have to dominate the league year after year before we start blaming our problems on CUSA. Right now, we are a middling program in a middling conference and you can't blame our poor performance on our conference mates. Winning fixes everything and right not our coach and staff are not getting it done on the court. We have to look in the mirror.

The conference and the travel in particular are probably a big recruiting problem. Who wants to spend half the week on a bus?

Monarchswin is absolutely correct.

If we moved to A10, where we would admittedly have access to higher profile recruits, we would still be recruiting on a more or less equal footing with everyone else in that conference. If we are "middling" in the A10, we still would not go to the NCAAT.

We have the same travel/conference recruiting issues as the rest of the conference in CUSA. We need to win it and/or go the the Dance at least every four years in THIS conference before we can piss and moan that the deck is stacked against us. It is not.

04-cheers

No, we don't quite have the same problems as everyone else and we are not on equal footing. We are outliers. The travel isn't nearly as bad for most of the others. If we moved to the A10 and were still "middling" then there would be a stronger case that JJ is the main problem. I'm no fan fan of JJ, but I don't think replacing him is going to fix anything, unless we roll the dice and replace him with someone who cheats. We need out of this conference for a lot of reasons that have been discussed at length and even the admin and Baghdad Bob agree. This is just one of those reasons.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2021 11:37 AM by EverRespect.)
03-12-2021 11:35 AM
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BigBlueBobby Offline
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Post: #34
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 10:16 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 10:12 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  [quote='ODUBB35' pid='17319496' dateline='1615560157']
First of all, I want to thank JJ, staff, and players for an entertaining last few months. It was quite a remarkable turnaround after a horrible start and the monstrosity that was last season. Honestly, after being blown out by FIU in the conference opener, I wondered if we would win another game all season. To go from that to splitting with UAB and WKU on the road to get the double-bye in the tournament was quite a feat, and may have been JJ's best coaching job to date. He got the team playing hard together in a tough situation, and is correct that they came along way this season.

However, this last month or so was enjoyable because our lowered expectations due to shoddy play early on allowed us to separate this season from the big picture. The reality is that we were not that good, and that the #2 seed in the East was likely a fortunate result of scheduling cancellations. We were able to avoid series with LA Tech, North Texas, both of whom Marshall played (though they were able to avoid UAB). Not to get too far into hypotheticals, but scheduling those two would likely have resulted in at least two more losses (and I'm not sure we would have swept UTEP or UTSA either). Not to take away from the gritty efforts of the last few weeks, but a full schedule would have likely revealed that we are a mediocre team in a conference that isn't all that good. That's the reality of the big picture, and that reality hit home last night.

As Giles stated, we lost to a better team, and it's hard to overcome 21 points from 3 pointers (it was actually 27, but the point is taken). They hit 9-20 from downtown. All true, and the Monarchs put forth a solid effort despite being smaller and less talented. We got very little from Reece or Green. Hunter had been playing so well lately, but had an off night. If he hits a few of those shots, it's a different ball game.

But the big picture question: Why is North Texas more talented? Yes, they are a veteran group but so are we. I'm tired of hearing that it's because we are in CUSA. That fact hasn't stopped North Texas from recruiting talent. How the hell is North Texas outrecruiting us? They have neither the facilities, the budget, not the history that we have.

Ezikpe and Trice are warriors, but for those who think that size doesn't matter, UNT proved otherwise. Their frontline was 6'10" and 6'10" as opposed to our 6'7" and 6'8" (and those heights are doubtful, I would put Trice closer to 6'5"). It wasn't an effort issue from our guys. It came down to size (again, recruiting).

Don't look now, but teams like Rice and FAU are gaining on us. UNT and Marshall have already passed us by. JMU is also in our rearview mirror while we are stagnant. We need a change.

Granted, it took Kermit Davis 10 years are so to have success at MTSU, and once they lost him, they haven't been the same. W&M got rid of the only coach that even had moderate success, and they stink. However, they have always stunk.

So yes, there is a risk that we could end up biting pillows if we change coaches. I just don't see us going anywhere with the status quo. So many schools land bigs and shooters and we can't seem to land any. I know it's all hypothetical, and the late season run gave us just enough confidence to say "wait until next year". But I don't want to wait around for Bryant Stith's grandsons to take us to our next title. It's time for a change.

We hit 2 threes, they hit 9.

Remember we are without possibly our best player this year. I don't want to make excuses, you have to play with what you have, but I don't know that they out recruited us. We essentially played them toe to toe without Wade. Granted, we have to get better but it's a little too soon to say they've passed us. Marshall certainly has not, what have they ever done to pass us? They are a perinnial 150 team (last 5 years have seen 147, 149, 105, 157, 143) before they just had their best year under D'Antoni (before the quick exit). Rice is barely a top 200 team. We were significantly better than JMU.

They didn't beat us because of the front court battle. There 2 went for 17 points and 11 rebounds on 15 shots while ours went for 15 points and 7 rebounds on 13 shots. They won because they have guys that can hit open 3 pointers. In a low possession game, you cannot be outscored by 20 points behind the arc and expect to win. McBride, Reece, and Bell can all shoot. We got Hunter, Curry, Oliver jacking up 3s like they can shoot but are all low 30s 3 point shooters.

I always felt that this team would take us as far as Green would take us. Im surprised we won as many games as we did with how bad he was offensively.

Hunter and Long came on as the year progressed and hopefully they improve with a real offseason. We are going to need more from Oliver and Reece next year.

Agree with a lot of your points outside of the doom and gloom program outlook. Also don't agree with the bigs comment. Im not opposed to letting Jones enjoy retirement either.

I'm with ya on Green. He had all the intangibles but just couldn't get over something between the ears it seems. I hope Kalu hangs around and doesn't bolt like there's been some foreshadowing of. He too has such a high ceiling and we saw flashes of it in several games.
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Wouldn't it be nice to have a 6'10' to 7' productive center that would free up Kalu, Trice and Reese to play their natural position of 3 & 4. Since we don't have that luxury, we force them to play the 5 which puts them at a disadvantage when going up against the NT's of this conference. We didn't get to play LT but they have a bruiser that would have eaten us up. I am so sick of seeing 6'4" recruits I could scream. Yes they are probably good players but.... Why do we not recruit overseas anymore? Lot of good big talent coming from over there. JJ's recruiting gives us exactly what we are getting, mediocrity!!! It doesn't change, doesn't get better, or even worse, stays the same. I don't like it! I miss the excirement of BT days when we entered tournaments thinking we could or should win the damn thing. Now we hope we can win one game? Pathetic. This isn't the ODU basketball program I remember and long for. This isn't even worth getting excited over. Nothing will change as long as JJ is the coach.
03-12-2021 11:39 AM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 11:35 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  No, we don't quite have the same problems as everyone else and we are not on equal footing. We are outliers. The travel isn't nearly as bad for most of the others. If we moved to the A10 and were still "middling" then there would be a stronger case that JJ is the main problem. I'm no fan fan of JJ, but I don't think replacing him is going to fix anything, unless we roll the dice and replace him with someone who cheats. We need out of this conference for a lot of reasons that have been discussed at length and even the admin and Baghdad Bob agree. This is just one of those reasons.

But why would the A10 be willing to take a middling team from a one-bid league? This is like a chicken and egg situation. I think we need to show possible future conference leadership our commitment to basketball excellence, and keeping JJ does not show that.
03-12-2021 11:50 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #36
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 11:25 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 10:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 10:49 AM)MONARCHSWIN Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 10:07 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  While I am convinced that the current state of ODU basketball is unacceptable, I am not convinced JJ is the problem. We have to find a way to remove the obstacles and get into a conference that makes sense for us. I'm afraid a new coach would just be sweeping sand from one side of the room to the other.

We have to dominate the league year after year before we start blaming our problems on CUSA. Right now, we are a middling program in a middling conference and you can't blame our poor performance on our conference mates. Winning fixes everything and right not our coach and staff are not getting it done on the court. We have to look in the mirror.

The conference and the travel in particular are probably a big recruiting problem. Who wants to spend half the week on a bus?

Monarchswin is absolutely correct.

If we moved to A10, where we would admittedly have access to higher profile recruits, we would still be recruiting on a more or less equal footing with everyone else in that conference. If we are "middling" in the A10, we still would not go to the NCAAT.

We have the same travel/conference recruiting issues as the rest of the conference in CUSA. We need to win it and/or go the the Dance at least every four years in THIS conference before we can piss and moan that the deck is stacked against us. It is not.

04-cheers

Id rather be "middling" in the A10 (and I don't think we would be) while playing teams that are our rivals, that we care about playing, that we can watch on TV, go to away games and even go to the tournament reasonably. Not to mention finish 2nd or 3rd and still have hope for a post-season bid.
03-12-2021 12:12 PM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #37
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 11:50 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 11:35 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  No, we don't quite have the same problems as everyone else and we are not on equal footing. We are outliers. The travel isn't nearly as bad for most of the others. If we moved to the A10 and were still "middling" then there would be a stronger case that JJ is the main problem. I'm no fan fan of JJ, but I don't think replacing him is going to fix anything, unless we roll the dice and replace him with someone who cheats. We need out of this conference for a lot of reasons that have been discussed at length and even the admin and Baghdad Bob agree. This is just one of those reasons.

But why would the A10 be willing to take a middling team from a one-bid league? This is like a chicken and egg situation. I think we need to show possible future conference leadership our commitment to basketball excellence, and keeping JJ does not show that.

Its not like VCU or GMU were dominating the CAA. We were just as good or better than both of them when they left. The difference is they got the lucky F4 runs and they don't have football. Im convinced if we didnt have football (and I love football) we would be in there right now too.
03-12-2021 12:13 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #38
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 11:50 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 11:35 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  No, we don't quite have the same problems as everyone else and we are not on equal footing. We are outliers. The travel isn't nearly as bad for most of the others. If we moved to the A10 and were still "middling" then there would be a stronger case that JJ is the main problem. I'm no fan fan of JJ, but I don't think replacing him is going to fix anything, unless we roll the dice and replace him with someone who cheats. We need out of this conference for a lot of reasons that have been discussed at length and even the admin and Baghdad Bob agree. This is just one of those reasons.

But why would the A10 be willing to take a middling team from a one-bid league? This is like a chicken and egg situation. I think we need to show possible future conference leadership our commitment to basketball excellence, and keeping JJ does not show that.

Why? Because our presence would reduce costs for most of the conference, create more demand for regional TV games, and significantly increase attendance at the conference tournament (the big money maker) most years. We offer the conference more than anyone else they could get even as a middling team.
03-12-2021 12:21 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 12:21 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 11:50 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 11:35 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  No, we don't quite have the same problems as everyone else and we are not on equal footing. We are outliers. The travel isn't nearly as bad for most of the others. If we moved to the A10 and were still "middling" then there would be a stronger case that JJ is the main problem. I'm no fan fan of JJ, but I don't think replacing him is going to fix anything, unless we roll the dice and replace him with someone who cheats. We need out of this conference for a lot of reasons that have been discussed at length and even the admin and Baghdad Bob agree. This is just one of those reasons.

But why would the A10 be willing to take a middling team from a one-bid league? This is like a chicken and egg situation. I think we need to show possible future conference leadership our commitment to basketball excellence, and keeping JJ does not show that.

Why? Because our presence would reduce costs for most of the conference, create more demand for regional TV games, and significantly increase attendance at the conference tournament (the big money maker) most years. We offer the conference more than anyone else they could get even as a middling team.

1. Reduced travel costs is probably minimal when they are already regionalized.
2. How has our impact gone in terms of market presence? So far if you look at cusa media deals, we've made 0 impact to that.
3. Increased attendance at a tournament... a once a year event ticket sales? Huh.

Not to mention A10 would be losing shares of their basketball tournament payouts by adding another team. And it's not like we are a good investment in those terms... how many NCAA tournament credits have we earned in the lifetime of the program?

FWIW my dream is A10 bball and whatever happens to football happens (prefer FBS indy with scheduling alliance). But I don't think we are exactly a slam dunk add.
03-12-2021 12:43 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: JJ should have a winning season, but
(03-12-2021 12:13 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 11:50 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(03-12-2021 11:35 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  No, we don't quite have the same problems as everyone else and we are not on equal footing. We are outliers. The travel isn't nearly as bad for most of the others. If we moved to the A10 and were still "middling" then there would be a stronger case that JJ is the main problem. I'm no fan fan of JJ, but I don't think replacing him is going to fix anything, unless we roll the dice and replace him with someone who cheats. We need out of this conference for a lot of reasons that have been discussed at length and even the admin and Baghdad Bob agree. This is just one of those reasons.

But why would the A10 be willing to take a middling team from a one-bid league? This is like a chicken and egg situation. I think we need to show possible future conference leadership our commitment to basketball excellence, and keeping JJ does not show that.

Its not like VCU or GMU were dominating the CAA. We were just as good or better than both of them when they left. The difference is they got the lucky F4 runs and they don't have football. Im convinced if we didnt have football (and I love football) we would be in there right now too.

But at least they made those runs. Compare that to how many NCAAT wins we have...
03-12-2021 12:44 PM
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