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UTEP Independence
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SactoHornetAlum Offline
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Post: #21
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-13-2021 11:03 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  Not too many FBS college football teams get to play in a big stadium and have no NFL competition for fans within 250 miles. To name a few: UTEP, NMSU, Texas Tech, Boise State, BYU, Utah, off the top of my head. Of course Hawaii too.

Since when was Las Cruces 250 miles from El Paso?!? 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2021 12:17 AM by SactoHornetAlum.)
02-14-2021 12:17 AM
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Todor Online
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Post: #22
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-14-2021 12:17 AM)SactoHornetAlum Wrote:  
(02-13-2021 11:03 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  Not too many FBS college football teams get to play in a big stadium and have no NFL competition for fans within 250 miles. To name a few: UTEP, NMSU, Texas Tech, Boise State, BYU, Utah, off the top of my head. Of course Hawaii too.

Since when was Las Cruces 250 miles from El Paso?!? 07-coffee3

That puzzled me too, but I think he means in Texas. Texans are not likely to become NMSU fans because its in another state, regardless of distance.

I mean, I guess virtually any school COULD pull off independence. Not sure why UTEP was chosen as an example of one that SHOULD though.

FBS independence is not that terrible for NMSU. We haven't been successfull enough over time, but I wouldn't say the program is suffering much because of independence. I mean, we get games, we get home games, we get pay games, we get our rivalry games. Attendance might be better if we had conference rivals, but those would take time to develop as well. We are playing a primarily Mountain West schedule anyway.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2021 03:06 AM by Todor.)
02-14-2021 03:01 AM
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Todor Online
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Post: #23
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-13-2021 07:10 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  UTEP’s struggles are internal not external. It’s easy to blame C-USA or any conference for that matter but the problem lies somewhere else.

UTEP is the very rare G5 that is capable of averaging 45k/10k in football and basketball. At one point it averaged over 20k season tickets holders. It’s happened before and it can happen again. The basketball program has a proud history but it’s just been mediocre. Independence in football and basketball in the WAC won’t fix anything and if there’s any hope in bringing the fans back (a core fan base of 25k in football and 7k in basketball) then independence/WAC is the way to lose them forever.

Agreed. Nothing about C USA is stopping UTEP. People look at other in state schools etc, and either don't know or have forgotten how there is still a pecking order among in state schools, regardless of this years performance. UTEP is higher up in the Texas pecking order (particularly in El Paso, but back east as well) than some people seem to realize. UTEP goes way back. They are no upstart.
02-14-2021 03:13 AM
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SDSUguy Offline
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Post: #24
RE: UTEP Independence
Now that SDSU has a smaller stadium under construction I think that we would kill it as an independent. We don’t have any problem scheduling out of conference games as we are a huge destination city that opposing fans love to travel to and are in a recruiting hotbed that teams want access to. The only Pac-12 teams that don’t seem to want to play us is USC and Oregon. We would put together a better schedule than any independent not named Norte Dame.
02-14-2021 08:53 AM
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GTFletch Offline
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Post: #25
RE: UTEP Independence
NMSU & UTEP should be invited to MWC in the next expansion round
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2021 09:06 AM by GTFletch.)
02-14-2021 09:05 AM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #26
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-14-2021 12:17 AM)SactoHornetAlum Wrote:  
(02-13-2021 11:03 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  Not too many FBS college football teams get to play in a big stadium and have no NFL competition for fans within 250 miles. To name a few: UTEP, NMSU, Texas Tech, Boise State, BYU, Utah, off the top of my head. Of course Hawaii too.

Since when was Las Cruces 250 miles from El Paso?!? 07-coffee3

You are correct. Las Cruces is only 40 miles away. But UTEP (which is a fairly large school) has no NFL competition within 250 miles. That is the point. NFL competition kills college football. And El Paso, combined with Juarez, is a big city with a decent airport and lots of good hotels and restaurants.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2021 10:29 AM by SMUstang.)
02-14-2021 09:43 AM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #27
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-14-2021 09:05 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  NMSU & UTEP should be invited to MWC in the next expansion round

Why would the MWC 2 of the worst, if not the worst football programs of all time? That share the same undesirable market? NMSU has a pretty good basketball program, but they’re far from Gonzaga. UTEP hasn’t been good for 10 years. So yeah, the MWC should add them for the f of it.
02-14-2021 11:40 AM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #28
RE: UTEP Independence
It's true you have to go back a few years, but UTEP has National Championships in:

UTEP 21 Men's basketball 1966
Men's outdoor track and field 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982
Men's indoor track and field 1974, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1980, 1981, 1982
Men's cross country 1969, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981

And they have one of the largest capacity football stadiums and basketball arenas in the country. And I wouldn't characterize their football program as one of the worst nor the market as undesirable.
02-14-2021 12:20 PM
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ESE84 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-13-2021 04:03 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(02-13-2021 03:51 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Nope. C-USA isn’t a great fit but the WAC is a big step down

WAC basketball may be as strong or stronger than C-USA West. Certainly NMSU is better than or equal to any C-USA school in basketball. And travel would certainly be improved over trips to ODU, etc.

Please post some references to support your position that WAC basketball may be stronger than C-USA West. I am looking at the current NET and just don’t see it. Abilene Christian seems to be having a fine year, but they are below North Texas. UAB and Louisiana Tech appear before the next WAC program, Grand Canyon. UTEP, Rice, and UTSA are all above NMSU.

UTEP did not play at ODU this year.
02-14-2021 02:38 PM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #30
RE: UTEP Independence
Sorry, this years results won’t support my position. When the new WAC is formed I expect them to improve. I wouldn’t expect UTEP to make such a move unless the WAC was equivalent. If it was then geography might come into play.
02-14-2021 03:09 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #31
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-14-2021 12:20 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  It's true you have to go back a few years, but UTEP has National Championships in:

UTEP 21 Men's basketball 1966
Men's outdoor track and field 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982
Men's indoor track and field 1974, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1980, 1981, 1982
Men's cross country 1969, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981

And they have one of the largest capacity football stadiums and basketball arenas in the country. And I wouldn't characterize their football program as one of the worst nor the market as undesirable.

Does winning track titles help out football and basketball? The basketball championship was 55 years ago, most current coaches and players weren’t born then.

If you don’t characterize their football program as one of the worst, what would you call it?
02-14-2021 03:19 PM
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-14-2021 09:43 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(02-14-2021 12:17 AM)SactoHornetAlum Wrote:  
(02-13-2021 11:03 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  Not too many FBS college football teams get to play in a big stadium and have no NFL competition for fans within 250 miles. To name a few: UTEP, NMSU, Texas Tech, Boise State, BYU, Utah, off the top of my head. Of course Hawaii too.

Since when was Las Cruces 250 miles from El Paso?!? 07-coffee3

You are correct. Las Cruces is only 40 miles away. But UTEP (which is a fairly large school) has no NFL competition within 250 miles. That is the point. NFL competition kills college football. And El Paso, combined with Juarez, is a big city with a decent airport and lots of good hotels and restaurants.

It does? Cincy, Pitt, Miami, GaTech, Navy, Maryland, Temple, Colorado, AFA and many others say, “Hold my beer.”
02-14-2021 03:43 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #33
RE: UTEP Independence
UTEP has a better setup right now

Three other Texas programs in Major TX metros in all sports annually to help recruiting as well as general student recruiting for a Ut system school

No issues scheduling


Only Potentially better fit that’s realistic is MWC but they don’t seem interested
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2021 04:08 PM by 1845 Bear.)
02-14-2021 04:04 PM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #34
RE: UTEP Independence
UTEP football has many advantages that most programs don’t. They are far away from an NFL team. They play in a 51,000 seat Sun Bowl stadium. Their school has an enrollment of around 22,000 students. They have a beautiful campus. They are part of the UT system. The El Paso/Juarez metro area is around a half a million with a major airport, hotels, and restaurants. They are located in Texas yet closer to California than east Texas. They have historically averaged 45,000 fans in football. They are located in a mountainous area.
02-14-2021 04:04 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #35
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-14-2021 04:04 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  UTEP football has many advantages that most programs don’t. They are far away from an NFL team. They play in a 51,000 seat Sun Bowl stadium. Their school has an enrollment of around 22,000 students. They have a beautiful campus. They are part of the UT system. The El Paso/Juarez metro area is around a half a million with a major airport, hotels, and restaurants. They are located in Texas yet closer to California than east Texas. They have historically averaged 45,000 fans in football. They are located in a mountainous area.

Now look at how easy it is to recruit talent to El Paso. Distance is huge as 90+ percent of Texas 3+ star talent Is Texas Triangle or East of it.

UTEP has enrollment and potential fans but you need the talent and geographically there’s not much within seven hours of them.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2021 04:11 PM by 1845 Bear.)
02-14-2021 04:10 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #36
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-14-2021 04:04 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  UTEP football has many advantages that most programs don’t. They are far away from an NFL team. They play in a 51,000 seat Sun Bowl stadium. Their school has an enrollment of around 22,000 students. They have a beautiful campus. They are part of the UT system. The El Paso/Juarez metro area is around a half a million with a major airport, hotels, and restaurants. They are located in Texas yet closer to California than east Texas. They have historically averaged 45,000 fans in football. They are located in a mountainous area.

Can you please list which years they averaged 45,000 fans a game?
02-14-2021 04:32 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-14-2021 11:40 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(02-14-2021 09:05 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  NMSU & UTEP should be invited to MWC in the next expansion round

Why would the MWC 2 of the worst, if not the worst football programs of all time? That share the same undesirable market? NMSU has a pretty good basketball program, but they’re far from Gonzaga. UTEP hasn’t been good for 10 years. So yeah, the MWC should add them for the f of it.

I love the way DoubleRSU does not sugarcoat his comments. It is difficult to win in football in El Paso or sustain winning in football. It will take a special type of coach who is committed to being in El Paso. Good luck with that. For basketball, they should be better. For 29 years, the had some great teams under "The Bear" and they just need to find that next great coach. They have a good basketball history and fans that will support basketball.

Independence in football is probably not a good idea and while the WAC would probably welcome their men's basketball program, they would not bring much of anything else. Besides football and men's basketball, all they have for men's sports are golf, cross country and track & field. No baseball or tennis or men's soccer.

El Paso is a unique place and the geographical isolation does not make it a great landing spot for recruits. But I have spent a lot of time there and I like it. As a local weatherman once said about his three favorite things about El Paso, it has "Freak Snow Storms, Low Humidity, and Lots of Pretty Women." Not a bad place to be.
02-14-2021 04:53 PM
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PicksUp Offline
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Post: #38
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-14-2021 11:40 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(02-14-2021 09:05 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  NMSU & UTEP should be invited to MWC in the next expansion round

Why would the MWC 2 of the worst, if not the worst football programs of all time? That share the same undesirable market? NMSU has a pretty good basketball program, but they’re far from Gonzaga. UTEP hasn’t been good for 10 years. So yeah, the MWC should add them for the f of it.

Worst winning percentage since 1970. Go back only 10-20 years and Im sure they are both bottom 5 in terms in win %.
02-14-2021 05:27 PM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #39
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-14-2021 04:32 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  [quote='SMUstang' pid='17273822' dateline='1613336673']
UTEP football has many advantages that most programs don’t. They are far away from an NFL team. They play in a 51,000 seat Sun Bowl stadium. Their school has an enrollment of around 22,000 students. They have a beautiful campus. They are part of the UT system. The El Paso/Juarez metro area is around a half a million with a major airport, hotels, and restaurants. They are located in Texas yet closer to California than east Texas. They have historically averaged 45,000 fans in football. They are located in a mountainous area.

Can you please list which years they averaged 45,000 fans a game?

That 48k average was in a 8-4 regular season. A 10 win or undefeated season would push it to a 50k-52k average. UTEP used to have a core of 25k fans but the program has been terrible and it gives the fans an excuse to stay home. Give the fans a good product on the field and they’ll show up. It’s the only game in town and there’s no P5 or pro sports competing for media coverage. The entire El Paso media and business community supports UTEP athletics. The coverage I see every time I go to El Paso rivals those I see in P5 markets. The on campus facilities especially the Sun Bowl are great although I think the Don Haskins Center needs some remodeling.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2021 05:52 PM by SMUstang.)
02-14-2021 05:28 PM
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UTEPDallas Online
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Post: #40
RE: UTEP Independence
(02-14-2021 04:10 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(02-14-2021 04:04 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  UTEP football has many advantages that most programs don’t. They are far away from an NFL team. They play in a 51,000 seat Sun Bowl stadium. Their school has an enrollment of around 22,000 students. They have a beautiful campus. They are part of the UT system. The El Paso/Juarez metro area is around a half a million with a major airport, hotels, and restaurants. They are located in Texas yet closer to California than east Texas. They have historically averaged 45,000 fans in football. They are located in a mountainous area.

Now look at how easy it is to recruit talent to El Paso. Distance is huge as 90+ percent of Texas 3+ star talent Is Texas Triangle or East of it.

UTEP has enrollment and potential fans but you need the talent and geographically there’s not much within seven hours of them.

Mike Price proved winning can be done in a far far away place (because the mindset I see here is we’re still in the 50’s when air travel was just for a privileged few, people still communicated by telegrams and tv was still a novelty). The big elephant in the room and it’s the main reason why I stopped posting on the two UTEP boards years ago is.......are they willing to pony up? The fans want a Boise State (another place that’s isolated and far from recruiting hotbeds) type of program but they still think $500k is a lot of money. Sure, it is a lot of money and you can live in a mansion in the Franklin Mountains (how many Texas cities offer that type of real state) but it’s not going to cut it if you want to have a better applicant pool once there’s a vacancy.
02-14-2021 05:33 PM
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