Taking football out of the equation, look at out best sports recently (pre-Covid). The CAA is an anchor that drags us down in Women's Basketball, Softball and Lacrosse. We have to schedule quality OOC games just to get any recognition. It's to the point where once conference play starts, it's a snooze. Men's basketball hasn't had that problem any time lately, but if we have designs on becoming a strong mid-major in men's hoops, we'll hit that glass ceiling sooner than later.

(02-11-2021 04:51 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Taking football out of the equation, look at out best sports recently (pre-Covid). The CAA is an anchor that drags us down in Women's Basketball, Softball and Lacrosse. We have to schedule quality OOC games just to get any recognition. It's to the point where once conference play starts, it's a snooze. Men's basketball hasn't had that problem any time lately, but if we have designs on becoming a strong mid-major in men's hoops, we'll hit that glass ceiling sooner than later.

Sure but what are our options? Over the last 30 years, I have watched mid major teams change conferences many times over. They haven’t elevated their programs by doing so. Neither ODU, VCU, ECU, GMU, Navy, American nor UR elevated their basketball program by leaving the CAA. In the case of ODU, Navy, American and GMU, they got markedly worse. ECU was just as bad. UR has been about the same and VCU has maintained their excellence. None of these programs have achieved P5 status.
What if ODU, VCU, GMU and UR had all stayed in the CAA? Would they be worse off today? I don’t believe so.

Did Temple, Xavier and Charlotte elevate their basketball programs by leaving the A10? I don’t feel they did.

I am not advocating JMU stay in the CAA. I have stated many times that I would like to see us find a more regional league where rivalries can flourish. I just don’t believe changing for change sake is a solution. Schools need to do what UConn did and go back to the future. There were a lot of dumb moves made based on TV money. The problem was that when the schools stopped playing their rivals, many fans lost interest and the TV money went away.

(02-12-2021 12:30 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 04:51 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Taking football out of the equation, look at out best sports recently (pre-Covid). The CAA is an anchor that drags us down in Women's Basketball, Softball and Lacrosse. We have to schedule quality OOC games just to get any recognition. It's to the point where once conference play starts, it's a snooze. Men's basketball hasn't had that problem any time lately, but if we have designs on becoming a strong mid-major in men's hoops, we'll hit that glass ceiling sooner than later.

Sure but what are our options? Over the last 30 years, I have watched mid major teams change conferences many times over. They haven’t elevated their programs by doing so. Neither ODU, VCU, ECU, GMU, Navy, American nor UR elevated their basketball program by leaving the CAA. In the case of ODU, Navy, American and GMU, they got markedly worse. ECU was just as bad. UR has been about the same and VCU has maintained their excellence. None of these programs have achieved P5 status.
What if ODU, VCU, GMU and UR had all stayed in the CAA? Would they be worse off today? I don’t believe so.

Did Temple, Xavier and Charlotte elevate their basketball programs by leaving the A10? I don’t feel they did.

I am not advocating JMU stay in the CAA. I have stated many times that I would like to see us find a more regional league where rivalries can flourish. I just don’t believe changing for change sake is a solution. Schools need to do what UConn did and go back to the future. There were a lot of dumb moves made based on TV money. The problem was that when the schools stopped playing their rivals, many fans lost interest and the TV money went away.

Today that looks like the A10 or CUSA most likely, unless SB/CUSA actually do pull a horse trade. I'd be very interested in the A10 if they move towards sponsoring FBS football as rumored. The rivalries would be there again (VCU, GMU, RU, possibly ODU).

(02-12-2021 12:30 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 04:51 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Taking football out of the equation, look at out best sports recently (pre-Covid). The CAA is an anchor that drags us down in Women's Basketball, Softball and Lacrosse. We have to schedule quality OOC games just to get any recognition. It's to the point where once conference play starts, it's a snooze. Men's basketball hasn't had that problem any time lately, but if we have designs on becoming a strong mid-major in men's hoops, we'll hit that glass ceiling sooner than later.

Sure but what are our options? Over the last 30 years, I have watched mid major teams change conferences many times over. They haven’t elevated their programs by doing so. Neither ODU, VCU, ECU, GMU, Navy, American nor UR elevated their basketball program by leaving the CAA. In the case of ODU, Navy, American and GMU, they got markedly worse. ECU was just as bad. UR has been about the same and VCU has maintained their excellence. None of these programs have achieved P5 status.
What if ODU, VCU, GMU and UR had all stayed in the CAA? Would they be worse off today? I don’t believe so.

Did Temple, Xavier and Charlotte elevate their basketball programs by leaving the A10? I don’t feel they did.

I am not advocating JMU stay in the CAA. I have stated many times that I would like to see us find a more regional league where rivalries can flourish. I just don’t believe changing for change sake is a solution. Schools need to do what UConn did and go back to the future. There were a lot of dumb moves made based on TV money. The problem was that when the schools stopped playing their rivals, many fans lost interest and the TV money went away.

I think Xavier has the same for Butler. It would be the same for Dayton and St Louis if they were invited to the Big East. Temple no but their football has been elevated.

(02-12-2021 12:30 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 04:51 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Taking football out of the equation, look at out best sports recently (pre-Covid). The CAA is an anchor that drags us down in Women's Basketball, Softball and Lacrosse. We have to schedule quality OOC games just to get any recognition. It's to the point where once conference play starts, it's a snooze. Men's basketball hasn't had that problem any time lately, but if we have designs on becoming a strong mid-major in men's hoops, we'll hit that glass ceiling sooner than later.

Sure but what are our options? Over the last 30 years, I have watched mid major teams change conferences many times over. They haven’t elevated their programs by doing so. Neither ODU, VCU, ECU, GMU, Navy, American nor UR elevated their basketball program by leaving the CAA. In the case of ODU, Navy, American and GMU, they got markedly worse. ECU was just as bad. UR has been about the same and VCU has maintained their excellence. None of these programs have achieved P5 status.
What if ODU, VCU, GMU and UR had all stayed in the CAA? Would they be worse off today? I don’t believe so.

Did Temple, Xavier and Charlotte elevate their basketball programs by leaving the A10? I don’t feel they did.

I am not advocating JMU stay in the CAA. I have stated many times that I would like to see us find a more regional league where rivalries can flourish. I just don’t believe changing for change sake is a solution. Schools need to do what UConn did and go back to the future. There were a lot of dumb moves made based on TV money. The problem was that when the schools stopped playing their rivals, many fans lost interest and the TV money went away.

I guess I'm all in for a push for Atlantic 10 membership since I've pretty much given up on us ever moving beyond CAA football. Have no idea if it's even been discussed anywhere. It'd be a noticeable upgrade for men's basketball. The A-10 is neck & neck with the AAC for the top non P5 (plus Big East) college basketball conference. Everything else would probably be a wash.

We could still cherry pick scheduling current CAA teams that would bolster our higher level women's sports. It would give us local rivalries with UR, VCU, GMU and GW plus teams that have made national impacts such as Dayton, Davidson etc. If LaSalle and Fordham are struggling right now and considering other options, why shouldn't we be making a pitch to join?

(02-12-2021 01:28 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(02-12-2021 12:30 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 04:51 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Taking football out of the equation, look at out best sports recently (pre-Covid). The CAA is an anchor that drags us down in Women's Basketballji, Softball and Lacrosse. We have to schedule quality OOC games just to get any recognition. It's to the point where once conference play starts, it's a snooze. Men's basketball hasn't had that problem any time lately, but if we have designs on becoming a strong mid-major in men's hoops, we'll hit that glass ceiling sooner than later.

Sure but what are our options? Over the last 30 years, I have watched mid major teams change conferences many times over. They haven’t elevated their programs by doing so. Neither ODU, VCU, ECU, GMU, Navy, American nor UR elevated their basketball program by leaving the CAA. In the case of ODU, Navy, American and GMU, they got markedly worse. ECU was just as bad. UR has been about the same and VCU has maintained their excellence. None of these programs have achieved P5 status.
What if ODU, VCU, GMU and UR had all stayed in the CAA? Would they be worse off today? I don’t believe so.

Did Temple, Xavier and Charlotte elevate their basketball programs by leaving the A10? I don’t feel they did.

I am not advocating JMU stay in the CAA. I have stated many times that I would like to see us find a more regional league where rivalries can flourish. I just don’t believe changing for change sake is a solution. Schools need to do what UConn did and go back to the future. There were a lot of dumb moves made based on TV money. The problem was that when the schools stopped playing their rivals, many fans lost interest and the TV money went away.

Today that looks like the A10 or CUSA most likely, unless SB/CUSA actually do pull a horse trade. I'd be very interested in the A10 if they move towards sponsoring FBS football as rumored. The rivalries would be there again (VCU, GMU, RU, possibly ODU).

I would be for the A10 as well. The league has changed quite a bit since VCU first joined to become no better than the CAA they left. Had Temple, Butler and Xavier stayed, then the move to the A10 would have been a good one.

It was be great to see the Midwest schools leave the A10 and join the MVC. Then have Fordham, Duquesne and LaSalle leave for the Patriot or some other Northeast league. That would bring the A10 to 9 teams. If JMU, ODU and Charlotte join, you are back at 12.

For football, you have Army, UConn and Liberty join JMU, ODU, UMass and Charlotte for A10 football only. That is a solid FBS league. If any other basketball teams leave, you replace them with an FBS team for all sports. Maybe Delaware moves up.

I am assuming Fordham, Dayton and Duquesne have no FBS ambitions. If they somehow do, then they likely don’t wish to leave the A10 or you have both FCS and FBS football leagues. Time to get creative. This can be worked out if schools want it.

(02-12-2021 12:58 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(02-12-2021 01:28 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(02-12-2021 12:30 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 04:51 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Taking football out of the equation, look at out best sports recently (pre-Covid). The CAA is an anchor that drags us down in Women's Basketballji, Softball and Lacrosse. We have to schedule quality OOC games just to get any recognition. It's to the point where once conference play starts, it's a snooze. Men's basketball hasn't had that problem any time lately, but if we have designs on becoming a strong mid-major in men's hoops, we'll hit that glass ceiling sooner than later.

Sure but what are our options? Over the last 30 years, I have watched mid major teams change conferences many times over. They haven’t elevated their programs by doing so. Neither ODU, VCU, ECU, GMU, Navy, American nor UR elevated their basketball program by leaving the CAA. In the case of ODU, Navy, American and GMU, they got markedly worse. ECU was just as bad. UR has been about the same and VCU has maintained their excellence. None of these programs have achieved P5 status.
What if ODU, VCU, GMU and UR had all stayed in the CAA? Would they be worse off today? I don’t believe so.

Did Temple, Xavier and Charlotte elevate their basketball programs by leaving the A10? I don’t feel they did.

I am not advocating JMU stay in the CAA. I have stated many times that I would like to see us find a more regional league where rivalries can flourish. I just don’t believe changing for change sake is a solution. Schools need to do what UConn did and go back to the future. There were a lot of dumb moves made based on TV money. The problem was that when the schools stopped playing their rivals, many fans lost interest and the TV money went away.

Today that looks like the A10 or CUSA most likely, unless SB/CUSA actually do pull a horse trade. I'd be very interested in the A10 if they move towards sponsoring FBS football as rumored. The rivalries would be there again (VCU, GMU, RU, possibly ODU).

I would be for the A10 as well. The league has changed quite a bit since VCU first joined to become no better than the CAA they left. Had Temple, Butler and Xavier stayed, then the move to the A10 would have been a good one.

It was be great to see the Midwest schools leave the A10 and join the MVC. Then have Fordham, Duquesne and LaSalle leave for the Patriot or some other Northeast league. That would bring the A10 to 9 teams. If JMU, ODU and Charlotte join, you are back at 12.

For football, you have Army, UConn and Liberty join JMU, ODU, UMass and Charlotte for A10 football only. That is a solid FBS league. If any other basketball teams leave, you replace them with an FBS team for all sports. Maybe Delaware moves up.

I am assuming Fordham, Dayton and Duquesne have no FBS ambitions. If they somehow do, then they likely don’t wish to leave the A10 or you have both FCS and FBS football leagues. Time to get creative. This can be worked out if schools want it.

I was curious as to this myself, so I dug up the Sagarin conference ratings. I realize it's not the be all-end all for conference strength, but it's a decent indicator.

*2012-2013 season through 2020-21: A10 average conference ranking is 8.66 (these are VCU's first 9 years in the conference)
*2004-2005 season through 2011-12: A10 average conference ranking was 9.00 (previous 9 years)

*2012-2013 season through 2020-21: CAA average conference ranking is 16.22
*2004-2005 season through 2011-12: CAA average conference ranking was 13.55

(02-12-2021 02:51 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(02-12-2021 12:58 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(02-12-2021 01:28 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(02-12-2021 12:30 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(02-11-2021 04:51 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Taking football out of the equation, look at out best sports recently (pre-Covid). The CAA is an anchor that drags us down in Women's Basketballji, Softball and Lacrosse. We have to schedule quality OOC games just to get any recognition. It's to the point where once conference play starts, it's a snooze. Men's basketball hasn't had that problem any time lately, but if we have designs on becoming a strong mid-major in men's hoops, we'll hit that glass ceiling sooner than later.

Sure but what are our options? Over the last 30 years, I have watched mid major teams change conferences many times over. They haven’t elevated their programs by doing so. Neither ODU, VCU, ECU, GMU, Navy, American nor UR elevated their basketball program by leaving the CAA. In the case of ODU, Navy, American and GMU, they got markedly worse. ECU was just as bad. UR has been about the same and VCU has maintained their excellence. None of these programs have achieved P5 status.
What if ODU, VCU, GMU and UR had all stayed in the CAA? Would they be worse off today? I don’t believe so.

Did Temple, Xavier and Charlotte elevate their basketball programs by leaving the A10? I don’t feel they did.

I am not advocating JMU stay in the CAA. I have stated many times that I would like to see us find a more regional league where rivalries can flourish. I just don’t believe changing for change sake is a solution. Schools need to do what UConn did and go back to the future. There were a lot of dumb moves made based on TV money. The problem was that when the schools stopped playing their rivals, many fans lost interest and the TV money went away.

Today that looks like the A10 or CUSA most likely, unless SB/CUSA actually do pull a horse trade. I'd be very interested in the A10 if they move towards sponsoring FBS football as rumored. The rivalries would be there again (VCU, GMU, RU, possibly ODU).

I would be for the A10 as well. The league has changed quite a bit since VCU first joined to become no better than the CAA they left. Had Temple, Butler and Xavier stayed, then the move to the A10 would have been a good one.

It was be great to see the Midwest schools leave the A10 and join the MVC. Then have Fordham, Duquesne and LaSalle leave for the Patriot or some other Northeast league. That would bring the A10 to 9 teams. If JMU, ODU and Charlotte join, you are back at 12.

For football, you have Army, UConn and Liberty join JMU, ODU, UMass and Charlotte for A10 football only. That is a solid FBS league. If any other basketball teams leave, you replace them with an FBS team for all sports. Maybe Delaware moves up.

I am assuming Fordham, Dayton and Duquesne have no FBS ambitions. If they somehow do, then they likely don’t wish to leave the A10 or you have both FCS and FBS football leagues. Time to get creative. This can be worked out if schools want it.

I was curious as to this myself, so I dug up the Sagarin conference ratings. I realize it's not the be all-end all for conference strength, but it's a decent indicator.

*2012-2013 season through 2020-21: A10 average conference ranking is 8.66 (these are VCU's first 9 years in the conference)
*2004-2005 season through 2011-12: A10 average conference ranking was 9.00 (previous 9 years)

*2012-2013 season through 2020-21: CAA average conference ranking is 16.22
*2004-2005 season through 2011-12: CAA average conference ranking was 13.55

Agree that is a bit selective, but I think that is the trend I'm "feeling".

Not I'm not saying the CAA has held us back the last 5 years. We've needed no assistance to do that.

But now that we seem to be headed in the direction I had been wanting for a long time, the CAA would not benefit us getting to be a top 75 program.

Look if they A10 wants us we definitely join, even if it's just for the rivalries. That being said, the CAA isn't really holding us back. Next year we're playing Florida, UVA, Mason, and ODU. If we ever get to a point where we're actually winning more of those games than we're losing, or making the NCAAT on a somewhat regular basis 1 out of every 2 or 3 years, then we can really start talking about us being at the ceiling of what the CAA offers. Also don't feel that softball, wlax, or men's soccer have been hurt by being in the CAA. Those sports can schedule insane OOC easily, which is much more difficult to pull off in mbb and football as of today.

NE lost to UNC last night by about 20 points...