How would you realign FBS (all sports) if you actually had to do right by the student athletes?

Geography, geography, geography. 10 conferences of 13.

PAC: Boise St, California, Fresno St, Hawaii, Oregon, Oregon St, San Diego St, San Jose St, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, Washington St

MWC: Air Force, Arizona, Arizona St, BYU, Colorado, Colorado St, Nevada, New Mexico, New Mexico St, UNLV, Utah, Utah St, Wyoming

SWC: Baylor, Houston, Louisiana Tech, North Texas, Rice, SMU, TCU, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas St, Texas, UTEP, UTSA

XIII: Arkansas, Iowa, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Northern Illinois, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Tulsa, Wisconsin

B1G: Ball St, Bowling Green St, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan St, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Purdue, Toledo, Western Michigan

SEC: Alabama, Arkansas St, Auburn, LSU, Memphis, Mississippi, Mississippi St, South Alabama, Southern Miss, Tulane, UAB, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe

SAC*: Central Florida, Coastal Carolina, Florida, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Florida St, Georgia, Georgia Southern, Georgia St, Georgia Tech, Miami (FL), South Florida, Troy
* Southern Atlantic Conference

BAC*: Akron, Cincinnati, Kent St, Kentucky, Louisville, Marshall, Miami (OH), Middle Tennessee St, Ohio, Ohio St, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Western Kentucky
* Bluegrass Athletic Conference

ACC: Appalachian St, Charlotte, Clemson, Duke, East Carolina, Liberty, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Old Dominion, South Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

ECC*: Army, Boston College, Buffalo, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, Navy, Penn St, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Temple, West Virginia
* East Coast Conference

Whenever I do a realignment geography is often a primary concern. I did a 13x10 before. Mine wasn't as geographically friendly as BePcr07 is but kept teams of similar levels together.

Big Ten: Boston College, Syracuse, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Temple, Rutgers, Ohio State, Cincinnati, Michigan, Michigan State

ACC: Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, South Carolina, West Virginia

SEC: Florida, Florida State, Miami, UCF, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State

Great Midwest: Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Louisville, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Big 8: Utah, BYU, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa, Iowa State, Minnesota

SWC: Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, TCU, Houston, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, LSU, Arkansas

Pac: UCLA, USC, California, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Arizona, Arizona State

MWC: Hawaii, San Diego State, Fresno State, San Jose State, Boise State, Nevada, UNLV, Colorado State, Air Force, Utah State

MAC: Akron, Kent State, Ohio, Miami Ohio, Toledo, Bowling Green, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan, Ball State

Lambert: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Army, Navy, Buffalo, Liberty, Old Dominion, East Carolina, Appalachian State, Charlotte
1 SB, 2 CUSA, 4 Ind, 1 MAC, 2 AAC

AAC: SMU, North Texas, Texas San Antonio, Rice, Texas State, Tulsa, UTEP, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Wyoming
2 SB, 4 CUSA, 2 AAC, 2 MWC

C-USA: South Florida, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Northern Illinois, Marshall
3 SB, 5 CUSA, 1 MAC, 1 AAC

Sun Belt: Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, Louisiana Monroe, Tulane, Arkansas State, Memphis, Southern Mississippi, South Alabama, UAB, Troy
5 SB, 3 CUSA, 2 AAC

Frank The Tank once said a common complaint of the Big Ten was it stretched too far even though it's further away between the Arizona schools and Washington schools than it is from Nebraska to the East Coast. If you're sticking to FBS, can you have just a California FBS conference and a Pacific Northwest conference (you would have to stick Hawaii somewhere)? In other sports, it would certainly work. The Big West alone has Hawaii and the rest California schools.

What does "doing right by the student athlete" mean?

Why is it in the best interest of FBS athletes to be grouped together with a bunch of inferior athletes from smaller schools?

Athletes want to push themselves to the highest levels. The best want to compete against the best. It is in their best interest for FBS to be split into a Power school level of around 60 schools and then another group of schools around 60 schools.

With that said, the current lineup of 65 P5 schools is not the ideal lineup of P5 schools if you were picking them from scratch. Wash. St, Ore. St,, Baylor, NW, Vandy, Wake Forest. should be demoted. BYU can get promoted. Then split the remaining P60 into 6 geographic conferences of 10 schools each.

(02-08-2021 03:14 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Geography, geography, geography. 10 conferences of 13.

If P5 conferences were more compact geographically than they are now, their members would likely schedule more OOC games against teams that are more geographically dispersed. Within a large conference you can accomplish geographic compactness within divisions, with the crossover games serving to provide that desired geographic dispersion. Then, those teams would likely schedule their OOC games closer to home.

Ohhhhh dear lord......

Well one thing's for sure. If the student-athletes were what mattered the SWC would never have split... at least the students were paid there!

(02-08-2021 08:36 AM)goofus Wrote:  Why is it in the best interest of FBS athletes to be grouped together with a bunch of inferior athletes from smaller schools?

Athletes want to push themselves to the highest levels. The best want to compete against the best. It is in their best interest for FBS to be split into a Power school level of around 60 schools and then another group of schools around 60 schools.

With that said, the current lineup of 65 P5 schools is not the ideal lineup of P5 schools if you were picking them from scratch. Wash. St, Ore. St,, Baylor, NW, Vandy, Wake Forest. should be demoted. BYU can get promoted. Then split the remaining P60 into 6 geographic conferences of 10 schools each.

Why should schools that are competitive in the P5 alignment, have larger athletic budgets than their P5 counter parts, have better support than some of their P5 counterparts, and are part of the regional rivalry and interest of the sport get cut?

60 doesn’t work. What happens to Notre Dame? What happens to the academies? What about the AAC/MWC schools that are just as good as their P5 counterparts like Houston, Boise, Cincy, Memphis, and UCF? What about the congressional reps from states like Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico, and Idaho that now find their programs relegated to official second-class status?

(02-08-2021 08:33 AM)ken d Wrote:  What does "doing right by the student athlete" mean?

That's the sticking point for me. Student athletes don't exist as a monolith. Some want the best opportunity to show out for the pro scouts. Some want to play for and against the schools they grew up watching. Some want to be around the smartest people. Some want to see the USA. Trying to craft a bunch of conferences around something so nebulous is bound to fail.

This is “realignment if MONEY didn’t matter”

Then sure, it would be okay to have conferences where A&M is forced to play North Texas, Ohio State was forced to play Kent State or Florida was forced to play FAU since nobody watching, caring or attending these games would hurt the bottom line

But guess what, it DOES matter which is why the SWC model is dead and gone and never coming back (Thank God)

(02-08-2021 08:40 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-08-2021 03:14 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Geography, geography, geography. 10 conferences of 13.

If P5 conferences were more compact geographically than they are now, their members would likely schedule more OOC games against teams that are more geographically dispersed. Within a large conference you can accomplish geographic compactness within divisions, with the crossover games serving to provide that desired geographic dispersion. Then, those teams would likely schedule their OOC games closer to home.

In men's basketball it is common for top teams to schedule other top teams. Look at Gonzaga. Look at the Champion's Classic. Look at the ACC/Big Ten Challenge, the SEC/Big 12 Challenge, Gavitt Games (Big East vs. Big Ten), etc. Tonight in women's basketball UConn is playing South Carolina who recently won a national championship. I remember when I was at Illinois and Penn State both teams had good women's volleyball teams and either invited or traveled to top nationally ranked teams when it came to non conference play, even west coast teams. In most NCAA championship sports record is important but strength of schedule is as well so the top teams realize they also have to play top teams OOC as well as do well in their conference. The one exception to that is football so we all think football is the norm when in fact football is the exception.

(02-08-2021 08:36 AM)goofus Wrote:  Why is it in the best interest of FBS athletes to be grouped together with a bunch of inferior athletes from smaller schools?

Athletes want to push themselves to the highest levels. The best want to compete against the best. It is in their best interest for FBS to be split into a Power school level of around 60 schools and then another group of schools around 60 schools.

With that said, the current lineup of 65 P5 schools is not the ideal lineup of P5 schools if you were picking them from scratch. Wash. St, Ore. St,, Baylor, NW, Vandy, Wake Forest. should be demoted. BYU can get promoted. Then split the remaining P60 into 6 geographic conferences of 10 schools each.

Agree. It doesn't make sense to put the MWC schools with the Pac schools. It does make sense to do some realignment. There would be a northeast conference instead of bloated Big 10 and ACCs.

And 10 to 12 team conferences would be the right size. Any larger reduces the chances for conference championships. Any smaller and it gets hard to have sufficient teams in the non-revenue sports.

(02-08-2021 03:14 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Geography, geography, geography. 10 conferences of 13.

PAC: Boise St, California, Fresno St, Hawaii, Oregon, Oregon St, San Diego St, San Jose St, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, Washington St

Um, we have 13 schools listed here, with one of them not actually in a "coast" state. Guess which one doesn't belong? Hint - I bolded it for you.

(02-08-2021 02:34 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  How would you realign FBS (all sports) if you actually had to do right by the student athletes?

In what ways do you think the current FBS alignment does not comport with what is right for student athletes?

(02-08-2021 11:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-08-2021 02:34 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  How would you realign FBS (all sports) if you actually had to do right by the student athletes?

In what ways do you think the current FBS alignment does not comport with what is right for student athletes?

Geography/travel.

(02-08-2021 11:47 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(02-08-2021 11:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-08-2021 02:34 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  How would you realign FBS (all sports) if you actually had to do right by the student athletes?

In what ways do you think the current FBS alignment does not comport with what is right for student athletes?

Geography/travel.

A 2-hour flight is less disruptive than a 4-hour bus ride.

There's probably a lot of students who prefer to fly far away & visit new places. They're 20 years old and they're not all from upper-middle-income families that travel a lot.

(02-08-2021 11:25 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-08-2021 03:14 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Geography, geography, geography. 10 conferences of 13.

PAC: Boise St, California, Fresno St, Hawaii, Oregon, Oregon St, San Diego St, San Jose St, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, Washington St

Um, we have 13 schools listed here, with one of them not actually in a "coast" state. Guess which one doesn't belong? Hint - I bolded it for you.

School #13 came down to either Arizona, Arizona St, Boise St, Nevada, or UNLV and I tried to keep in-state rivals together. I never said this was realistic!

(02-08-2021 11:21 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-08-2021 08:36 AM)goofus Wrote:  Why is it in the best interest of FBS athletes to be grouped together with a bunch of inferior athletes from smaller schools?

Athletes want to push themselves to the highest levels. The best want to compete against the best. It is in their best interest for FBS to be split into a Power school level of around 60 schools and then another group of schools around 60 schools.

With that said, the current lineup of 65 P5 schools is not the ideal lineup of P5 schools if you were picking them from scratch. Wash. St, Ore. St,, Baylor, NW, Vandy, Wake Forest. should be demoted. BYU can get promoted. Then split the remaining P60 into 6 geographic conferences of 10 schools each.

Agree. It doesn't make sense to put the MWC schools with the Pac schools. It does make sense to do some realignment. There would be a northeast conference instead of bloated Big 10 and ACCs.

And 10 to 12 team conferences would be the right size. Any larger reduces the chances for conference championships. Any smaller and it gets hard to have sufficient teams in the non-revenue sports.

Basically all you need to do is chop the northern schools from the ACC including Louisville for those who insist they are not northern), throw in Rutgers, WVU, UC, UCF and USF and call it a day. Give Notre Dame the option of picking a scheduling arrangement of this league or the leftover ACC. Maryland can join which ever of the two they would prefer as an all-sports member.

Yes I realizing I am just recreating the Big East football conference.

(02-08-2021 12:26 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-08-2021 11:47 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(02-08-2021 11:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-08-2021 02:34 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  How would you realign FBS (all sports) if you actually had to do right by the student athletes?

In what ways do you think the current FBS alignment does not comport with what is right for student athletes?

Geography/travel.

A 2-hour flight is less disruptive than a 4-hour bus ride.

There's probably a lot of students who prefer to fly far away & visit new places. They're 20 years old and they're not all from upper-middle-income families that travel a lot.

Yes, If I was a student athlete at say UAB, I'd much rather take a flight to Dallas or Miami for a game then bounce around on a bus for four hours to Southern Mississippi. Much more fun, etc.

Not that what student athletes like should govern this, but if ....