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Coachin; the last thread
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Browning Hall Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 01:15 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(02-07-2021 01:12 PM)Browning Hall Wrote:  
(02-07-2021 12:46 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  
(02-07-2021 12:38 PM)Browning Hall Wrote:  
(02-07-2021 12:13 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  40 years in BB --How long does it take for people to stop saying that ---do they say that about the Puke coach

Mike Kryzewski has 40 yrs experience as a college basketball coach. By your logic, he should be able to bust a trey or win a dunk contest.

WHY should he be able to do that ? Has nothing to do with knowledge of the game.

PENNY knows as much about the game of BB as the PUKE coach --or ANY coach---BB is not hard

Why do you keep insisting basketball is not hard? Because you watched this? That was parody, not real life.



If you were hiring a sales manager, would you assume your best salesperson to be the obvious choice? The guy that’s been putting up the best numbers for a decade? I bet I know your answer.

He is right...

Basketball concepts are really not that hard...

Leadership, instruction, team building, coaching, program building, etc...Are not easy.

He knows this but he is trolling.

Well, the concept(s) isn’t hard but I assume we’re talking about execution. Execution is quiet hard at this level. Everything you mentioned as not easy involves coaching. Basketball is a tough sport to coach which is much different than knowing your role as a player. Many former star athletes have failed miserably when trying their hand at coaching.

But you’re right. He’s trolling. Nothing anyone says will stop that and I just realized how much time I’ve wasted. Silly me.
02-07-2021 01:35 PM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Coachin; the last thread
Basketball sometimes gets played as if it were life and death. This year that got real.

Normally, basketball is a performance in front of a screaming home crowd.

Penny brought together a 'team' in the worst of times--something Cal, K, Izzo (lost 7 of his last 9), and nameless other 'great coaches' were unable to do.

one more thing lol...Few folks hit the ground running as good parents/coaches/teachers/managers. Most get better as they go along, through trial and error.

Winners learn to invest in loss. They quickly identify the issues and improve. One could arguably say that is how everyone becomes a winner. Penny is already a winner. He has already experienced this simple fact of life.

What makes anyone so sure that he cannot become one of the greatest college bb coaches of all time...?
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2021 02:12 PM by snowtiger.)
02-07-2021 01:46 PM
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former guest Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Coachin; the last thread
Trying to keep from disparaging (too much) a poster who is obviously a trolling simpleton, but I will say that Penny has been playing the game at all levels for many years and as a player, his instincts in the moment (like on the court, with the ball in his hands) are very high level. However, having that innate ability to react while performing the act, and trying to teach that reaction to someone else so they can reproduce it, are two totally different things. He has the experience as a player, but not so much as a college coach - yet....

Is there a learning curve? Most definitely. And I think Penny is making good use of the experience he has to move up the curve quickly. Is it frustrating sometimes? Absolutely. That comes with the territory.

What I am looking forward to - as the measuring stick - is how the team plays after the players he has been around since middle and high school have moved on and he has no long term history with the members of the team like he does now. But any talk of firing him is stupidity right now.

GTG!
02-07-2021 02:02 PM
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micman Online
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Post: #24
RE: Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 12:13 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  
(02-07-2021 08:53 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  Penny is learning on the job. Anyone that wants him fired at this point has no clue about basketball.

40 years in BB --How long does it take for people to stop saying that ---do they say that about the Puke coach

Coach Krzyzewski did not reach his first NCAA tournament until his 9th season as a head coach and his 4th season at Duke. He inherited a Duke team that had gone to the Elite Eight the year before he got there.

Tubby Smith reached his first NCAA tournament in his third season as head coach and went to the 5 NCAA tournaments in his first 7 years coaching which included (3) Sweet 16s and (1) National Championship.

So, they probably said that about the Duke coach in his first 3 years coaching. They probably didn't say it about our previous basketball coach. We said it about Josh Pastner (the coach who took us to 4 consecutive NCAA tournaments; whom you continue to defend, even though he hasn't coached a team to the NCAA tournament in the last 6 years).
02-07-2021 02:13 PM
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micman Online
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Post: #25
RE: Coachin; the last thread
[quote='former guest' pid='17263078' dateline='1612724546']
Trying to keep from disparaging (too much) a poster who is obviously a trolling simpleton, but I will say that Penny has been playing the game at all levels for many years and as a player, his instincts in the moment (like on the court, with the ball in his hands) are very high level. However, having that innate ability to react while performing the act, and trying to teach that reaction to someone else so they can reproduce it, are two totally different things. He has the experience as a player, but not so much as a college coach - yet....


Which is why I think that he should be given a lot of credit for his wisdom in focusing on coaching the defense while hiring offensive-minded assistants to coach the offense. How many people, in the history of basketball, can do what he could do on offense (in his prime), three? Maybe. Certainly less than 10 people, ever. There was only one person I ever saw who could defend him; and that one person is widely considered to be the best of all time.
02-07-2021 02:25 PM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 02:02 PM)former guest Wrote:  Trying to keep from disparaging (too much) a poster who is obviously a trolling simpleton, but I will say that Penny has been playing the game at all levels for many years and as a player, his instincts in the moment (like on the court, with the ball in his hands) are very high level. However, having that innate ability to react while performing the act, and trying to teach that reaction to someone else so they can reproduce it, are two totally different things. He has the experience as a player, but not so much as a college coach - yet....

Is there a learning curve? Most definitely. And I think Penny is making good use of the experience he has to move up the curve quickly. Is it frustrating sometimes? Absolutely. That comes with the territory.

What I am looking forward to - as the measuring stick - is how the team plays after the players he has been around since middle and high school have moved on and he has no long term history with the members of the team like he does now. But any talk of firing him is stupidity right now.

GTG!

I will say this...there are Teachers with an innately high level of their craft who communicate it wordlessly to their good students. The frustration level for the teacher who oftentimes encounters those who have a much lower ceiling than his/her own, is the most challenging issue, imo.

Juggling the families' expectations, however, along with personalities, the NCAA and the fans' demands make college sports coaching almost impossible.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2021 02:26 PM by snowtiger.)
02-07-2021 02:25 PM
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ImaTiger Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Coachin; the last thread
Whether he deserved the criticism then or not; whether he needs/needed a curve or not; regardless if he made a mistake or lost a gamble 'back then', my position is that from this point forward we don't need to tolerate or suffer anyone to accuse him of not being a good 'coach'.

He just proved he is.
02-07-2021 02:32 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 02:32 PM)ImaTiger Wrote:  Whether he deserved the criticism then or not; whether he needs/needed a curve or not; regardless if he made a mistake or lost a gamble 'back then', my position is that from this point forward we don't need to tolerate or suffer anyone to accuse him of not being a good 'coach'.

He just proved he is.

YEP---^THIS^
02-07-2021 03:02 PM
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jsw3ent Online
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Post: #29
RE: Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 02:25 PM)micman Wrote:  [quote='former guest' pid='17263078' dateline='1612724546']
Trying to keep from disparaging (too much) a poster who is obviously a trolling simpleton, but I will say that Penny has been playing the game at all levels for many years and as a player, his instincts in the moment (like on the court, with the ball in his hands) are very high level. However, having that innate ability to react while performing the act, and trying to teach that reaction to someone else so they can reproduce it, are two totally different things. He has the experience as a player, but not so much as a college coach - yet....


Which is why I think that he should be given a lot of credit for his wisdom in focusing on coaching the defense while hiring offensive-minded assistants to coach the offense. How many people, in the history of basketball, can do what he could do on offense (in his prime), three? Maybe. Certainly less than 10 people, ever. There was only one person I ever saw who could defend him; and that one person is widely considered to be the best of all time.

BIRD ?
02-07-2021 03:02 PM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 02:32 PM)ImaTiger Wrote:  Whether he deserved the criticism then or not; whether he needs/needed a curve or not; regardless if he made a mistake or lost a gamble 'back then', my position is that from this point forward we don't need to tolerate or suffer anyone to accuse him of not being a good 'coach'.

He just proved he is.

Agree. I just wanted to up the bar on 'good'. lol
02-07-2021 03:02 PM
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Memphis Yankee Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 02:25 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  
(02-07-2021 02:02 PM)former guest Wrote:  Trying to keep from disparaging (too much) a poster who is obviously a trolling simpleton, but I will say that Penny has been playing the game at all levels for many years and as a player, his instincts in the moment (like on the court, with the ball in his hands) are very high level. However, having that innate ability to react while performing the act, and trying to teach that reaction to someone else so they can reproduce it, are two totally different things. He has the experience as a player, but not so much as a college coach - yet....

Is there a learning curve? Most definitely. And I think Penny is making good use of the experience he has to move up the curve quickly. Is it frustrating sometimes? Absolutely. That comes with the territory.

What I am looking forward to - as the measuring stick - is how the team plays after the players he has been around since middle and high school have moved on and he has no long term history with the members of the team like he does now. But any talk of firing him is stupidity right now.

GTG!

I will say this...there are Teachers with an innately high level of their craft who communicate it wordlessly to their good students. The frustration level for the teacher who oftentimes encounters those who have a much lower ceiling than his/her own, is the most challenging issue, imo.

Juggling the families' expectations, however, along with personalities, the NCAA and the fans' demands make college sports coaching almost impossible.

The struggle I have trying to figure out all of this is that, nothing seems to be black or white. It's gray.

I find myself one game saying the coach doesn't know how to coach. The next game I'm putting all the blame on the players. Ya know, black or white lol.

One game, I'm going ballistic over the substitution patterns. The next game I'm thinking it makes sense because of the way we play defense, we need fresh players.

One game I think the players are lazy because they don't move on offense, the next game I blaming the coach thinking the players don't know what they're doing in an offensive set.

I'm not exactly sure what needs fixing, but I do believe it's not a black or white answer. Just my two cents.
02-07-2021 03:11 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 08:46 AM)ImaTiger Wrote:  Players on their feet pulling for each other; coaches working in the moment to motivate and teach.

When I read this part, I remember a moment in the game yesterday when Lester Quinones and Deandre Williams were pissed at each other after a Williams pass to LQ led to a turnover. I am not a lip reader but you could tell LQ said "FU" to Williams and Williams said the same thing back to LQ. I waited to see if Coach Penny saw it and if he would say or do anything. I didn't see any response. Maybe it was addressed in a huddle or after the game. Maybe they kissed and made up soon thereafter and it was no big deal. In any event, I was a little shocked to see those two go at it. Just another reason why coaching teenagers and young men is hard.
02-07-2021 03:39 PM
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450bench Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Coachin; the last thread
Just my opinion:

Penny deserved some criticism and he’s deserved praise. I think he’s improving. Quite a bit actually. I know his demeanor is hardening up with some phases of coaching and that’s really good.
He’s a better coach now than he was last year and the year before. That’s a really good sign.
02-07-2021 04:00 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Coachin; the last thread
I think that we need to keep our coach and fire a few fans. The ones who Spiro T. Agnew would have referred to as "nattering nabobs of negativism".

Oops. fire a few posters, because I'm not sure that the term fan applies to them.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2021 04:30 PM by covingtontiger.)
02-07-2021 04:27 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 03:39 PM)Virginia Tiger Wrote:  
(02-07-2021 08:46 AM)ImaTiger Wrote:  Players on their feet pulling for each other; coaches working in the moment to motivate and teach.

When I read this part, I remember a moment in the game yesterday when Lester Quinones and Deandre Williams were pissed at each other after a Williams pass to LQ led to a turnover. I am not a lip reader but you could tell LQ said "FU" to Williams and Williams said the same thing back to LQ. I waited to see if Coach Penny saw it and if he would say or do anything. I didn't see any response. Maybe it was addressed in a huddle or after the game. Maybe they kissed and made up soon thereafter and it was no big deal. In any event, I was a little shocked to see those two go at it. Just another reason why coaching teenagers and young men is hard.

Heat of battle. DW knew he was in the wrong.
And DW actually does as much coaching/encouraging as any player.
02-07-2021 04:48 PM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Coachin; the last thread
Every coach deserved praise for slogging out this season of the plague...imo..

We have short memories when it comes to coaches. Let me remind us with snippets from the last 3: "Memphis fans need to lower their expectations...we don't wanna win much the first year or their's no where to go. OBEDIENCE!!!! "

"I am the Tubby god. Those who want to play under my tutelage must come and kneel for my further instructions. I might not remember your name, tho, so wear a nametag. Let's leave Papa Lawson at the hotel."

"How many were vacated? Get your ass to the press conference, Black, and apologize or I won't let you back on the team. Energy! gosh darn it! o no, we're on a scoring roll...I need to take a timeout!"

And potty mouth Cal, of course.... payoffs, faked SAT scores...bye bye Memphis I'm taking Cousins and Wall with, not to mention the snow cone machine and leaving you with vacated games and sanctions

lol
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2021 05:26 PM by snowtiger.)
02-07-2021 04:52 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 12:13 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  
(02-07-2021 08:53 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  Penny is learning on the job. Anyone that wants him fired at this point has no clue about basketball.

40 years in BB --How long does it take for people to stop saying that ---do they say that about the Puke coach

He’s only had 2 in college basketball as a player. None as a coach. But you know that.
02-07-2021 05:09 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 03:11 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  
(02-07-2021 02:25 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  
(02-07-2021 02:02 PM)former guest Wrote:  Trying to keep from disparaging (too much) a poster who is obviously a trolling simpleton, but I will say that Penny has been playing the game at all levels for many years and as a player, his instincts in the moment (like on the court, with the ball in his hands) are very high level. However, having that innate ability to react while performing the act, and trying to teach that reaction to someone else so they can reproduce it, are two totally different things. He has the experience as a player, but not so much as a college coach - yet....

Is there a learning curve? Most definitely. And I think Penny is making good use of the experience he has to move up the curve quickly. Is it frustrating sometimes? Absolutely. That comes with the territory.

What I am looking forward to - as the measuring stick - is how the team plays after the players he has been around since middle and high school have moved on and he has no long term history with the members of the team like he does now. But any talk of firing him is stupidity right now.

GTG!

I will say this...there are Teachers with an innately high level of their craft who communicate it wordlessly to their good students. The frustration level for the teacher who oftentimes encounters those who have a much lower ceiling than his/her own, is the most challenging issue, imo.

Juggling the families' expectations, however, along with personalities, the NCAA and the fans' demands make college sports coaching almost impossible.

The struggle I have trying to figure out all of this is that, nothing seems to be black or white. It's gray.

I find myself one game saying the coach doesn't know how to coach. The next game I'm putting all the blame on the players. Ya know, black or white lol.

One game, I'm going ballistic over the substitution patterns. The next game I'm thinking it makes sense because of the way we play defense, we need fresh players.

One game I think the players are lazy because they don't move on offense, the next game I blaming the coach thinking the players don't know what they're doing in an offensive set.

I'm not exactly sure what needs fixing, but I do believe it's not a black or white answer. Just my two cents.

and guess what?

That is called LIFE
02-07-2021 05:10 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 03:39 PM)Virginia Tiger Wrote:  
(02-07-2021 08:46 AM)ImaTiger Wrote:  Players on their feet pulling for each other; coaches working in the moment to motivate and teach.

When I read this part, I remember a moment in the game yesterday when Lester Quinones and Deandre Williams were pissed at each other after a Williams pass to LQ led to a turnover. I am not a lip reader but you could tell LQ said "FU" to Williams and Williams said the same thing back to LQ. I waited to see if Coach Penny saw it and if he would say or do anything. I didn't see any response. Maybe it was addressed in a huddle or after the game. Maybe they kissed and made up soon thereafter and it was no big deal. In any event, I was a little shocked to see those two go at it. Just another reason why coaching teenagers and young men is hard.

No, he said "That's on you".
02-07-2021 05:17 PM
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Post: #40
Coachin; the last thread
(02-07-2021 10:43 AM)uskjtc02 Wrote:  Although I am an avid Penny supporter, some of the criticism was warranted. We knew when we hired him there would be a learning curve and he’s still learning. But calling for his head is ridiculous! Some of our fans are as bad as UTK and Kentucky fans.


Yeah we lost several games we shouldn’t have, which is incredibly frustrating. Because of that we have to win almost all of our games to make the tournament.

I think we need to beat Houston once and run the table to have a chance at an at large bid. We also need to advance in the conference tournament (probably make the championship game).
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2021 05:58 PM by cscottl1981.)
02-07-2021 05:44 PM
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