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Jumping to Conclusions Mat — ODU BBall Recruiting Edition
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #21
Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-21-2021 08:53 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  Every single team has transfers these days. Over 1000 players transferred last year, more than three per team. It’s just the way it is now.


If we are going to be a top tier mid major again, we will have to be exceptional and not just like everyone else.


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01-21-2021 08:56 PM
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ODUCoach Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-21-2021 08:56 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 08:53 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  Every single team has transfers these days. Over 1000 players transferred last year, more than three per team. It’s just the way it is now.


If we are going to be a top tier mid major again, we will have to be exceptional and not just like everyone else.


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If we want to be good again, we have to take the best players available, even if they are transfers.
01-21-2021 09:15 PM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-21-2021 09:15 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 08:56 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 08:53 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  Every single team has transfers these days. Over 1000 players transferred last year, more than three per team. It’s just the way it is now.


If we are going to be a top tier mid major again, we will have to be exceptional and not just like everyone else.


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If we want to be good again, we have to take the best players available, even if they are transfers.

High School kids are a known entity to recruit. Junior College kids are as well. Kids that decide to transfer from 4 year colleges and universities are an unknown from year to year as to who will be there. I don't see how one can feel good about their team as a coach from year to year if they have so much uncertainty in who is going to be on it. I would think it would be easier to build team unity and balance if the coach made a concerted effort to build the team via high school recruits. That said, if I was a coach, I would probably keep an open scholarship each year to go for a transfer if there was one that I wanted and thought I could get.
01-21-2021 11:17 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-21-2021 08:56 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 08:53 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  Every single team has transfers these days. Over 1000 players transferred last year, more than three per team. It’s just the way it is now.


If we are going to be a top tier mid major again, we will have to be exceptional and not just like everyone else.


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Hard hitting advice there
01-22-2021 09:32 AM
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bluelight Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-21-2021 03:46 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 02:40 PM)bluelight Wrote:  
(01-19-2021 11:38 AM)ODU804 Wrote:  
(01-19-2021 10:15 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(01-18-2021 08:33 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  ODU has had a lot of good ones in its history. No so much since Jeff has been here though.

Caver is the only freshman Jones has brought in through all these years that came in, made in impact as a freshman, continued to improve, turned into a star, and stayed 4 years... unless I am missing someone.

1 freshman in 7 years! that tells you why JJ doesn't play freshmen. His stars are always transfers. Until JJ and Woodie leave, our recruiting will never go back to the glory days.

I still can't understand why anyone cares whether we use transfers or not. Its not like wins and losses don't count when you use transfers.

POINT IS JJ CAN'T RECRUIT, THEREFORE, HE HAS TO LIVE OFF TRANSFERS
IF NCAA PASSES NEW RULE, YOU WILL SEE MOST OF JJ'S RECRUITS, TRANSFERS OR JC. MAYBE WE CAN CUT OWN RECRUITING BUDGET, AND FORGET ABOUT SPENDING TIME AND MONEY ON HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS.
01-22-2021 09:49 AM
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bluelight Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-21-2021 08:46 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 05:54 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 05:39 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 05:00 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Because if you can't organically grow as a team, your program isn't healthy. That isn't to say we can't put together enough bandaids to have a decent team from time to time, but the program as a whole is sick. There is a reason that the only team JJ has had that has made the NCAAs was the team of Caver's senior year (and BJ who was here for 4 years even though one was a redshirt).

I don't disagree. But oddly enough ODU wouldnt have made the NCAA without the heroics of sophomore Xavier Green and Elbert Robinson (transfer).

Plenty of schools have no issues with transfers. Heck, most get excited. Even in our football thread people are excited for transfers. But, if our basketball team takes a tranfers....its bad.

IMO transfers should be used to supplement the team, to fill in holes created by premature departures of players for whatever the reason - especially for upper class players that would have been depended on to lead. Transfers should not evolve into becoming the mainstay of a program from year to year. I agree with the reasons given in EverRespect's earlier post above regarding 4 year recruits versus transfers.

IF WE HAVE NO ISSUES IN TRANSFERS, THEN DON'T WASTE MONEY OR TRYING TO RECRUIT 3/4 STAR HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS. UNTIL A NEW YOUNG AND ATTRACTIVE COACH COMES, WE WILL NEVER BE MORE THAN A LITLE BELOW AVERAGE, NATION WIDE.
01-22-2021 09:57 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-22-2021 09:57 AM)bluelight Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 08:46 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 05:54 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 05:39 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 05:00 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Because if you can't organically grow as a team, your program isn't healthy. That isn't to say we can't put together enough bandaids to have a decent team from time to time, but the program as a whole is sick. There is a reason that the only team JJ has had that has made the NCAAs was the team of Caver's senior year (and BJ who was here for 4 years even though one was a redshirt).

I don't disagree. But oddly enough ODU wouldnt have made the NCAA without the heroics of sophomore Xavier Green and Elbert Robinson (transfer).

Plenty of schools have no issues with transfers. Heck, most get excited. Even in our football thread people are excited for transfers. But, if our basketball team takes a tranfers....its bad.

IMO transfers should be used to supplement the team, to fill in holes created by premature departures of players for whatever the reason - especially for upper class players that would have been depended on to lead. Transfers should not evolve into becoming the mainstay of a program from year to year. I agree with the reasons given in EverRespect's earlier post above regarding 4 year recruits versus transfers.

IF WE HAVE NO ISSUES IN TRANSFERS, THEN DON'T WASTE MONEY OR TRYING TO RECRUIT 3/4 STAR HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS. UNTIL A NEW YOUNG AND ATTRACTIVE COACH COMES, WE WILL NEVER BE MORE THAN A LITLE BELOW AVERAGE, NATION WIDE.

Im on board with the idea that you use transfers to plug holes, not build a program. But they are needed sometimes, and a lot of times you don't get the transfer later unless you've built the relationship in high school.
01-22-2021 09:58 AM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-22-2021 09:49 AM)bluelight Wrote:  POINT IS JJ CAN'T RECRUIT, THEREFORE, HE HAS TO LIVE OFF TRANSFERS
IF NCAA PASSES NEW RULE, YOU WILL SEE MOST OF JJ'S RECRUITS, TRANSFERS OR JC. MAYBE WE CAN CUT OWN RECRUITING BUDGET, AND FORGET ABOUT SPENDING TIME AND MONEY ON HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS.

Jones is navigating the best team in the conference over the last 6 years and you can't convince me otherwise. Sure, it's not saying much that we are the least smelling poop in the poopy conference. But it's the hand he's been dealt.

Getting this level of performance and wins is what matters. Who actually gives a F how he gets there, via freshman or transfers or bigs or smalls? Fast ball or slow ball? Seriously, he just keeps winning and people like you keep finding ways to hate him.

Here's our finishes over the last 7 years.

8th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 3rd.

Wins in conference those years:

9, 13, 15, 12, 12, 13.

Average place: 3.5th. Average wins: 12.3.

We are the best team in this conference. Who do you think is better? Middle? WKU? Mar$hall? (put the dollar to prevent certain posters from showing up and making it more poopy)

Over the last 6 years (not including this goofy season):

ODU average place: 3.5
ODU average conference wins: 12.3

WKU avg place: 5
WKU avg conf wins: 11.1

MT avg place: 6
MT avg conf wins: 11.1

Marsh avg place: 6.2
Marsh avg conf wins: 10.3

So what else can you talk about, 'bluelight', other than the types of players Jones recruits or the style of basketball he plays? What else you got?
01-22-2021 10:17 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-22-2021 10:17 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 09:49 AM)bluelight Wrote:  POINT IS JJ CAN'T RECRUIT, THEREFORE, HE HAS TO LIVE OFF TRANSFERS
IF NCAA PASSES NEW RULE, YOU WILL SEE MOST OF JJ'S RECRUITS, TRANSFERS OR JC. MAYBE WE CAN CUT OWN RECRUITING BUDGET, AND FORGET ABOUT SPENDING TIME AND MONEY ON HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS.

Jones is navigating the best team in the conference over the last 6 years and you can't convince me otherwise. Sure, it's not saying much that we are the least smelling poop in the poopy conference. But it's the hand he's been dealt.

Getting this level of performance and wins is what matters. Who actually gives a F how he gets there, via freshman or transfers or bigs or smalls? Fast ball or slow ball? Seriously, he just keeps winning and people like you keep finding ways to hate him.

Here's our finishes over the last 7 years.

8th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 3rd.

Wins in conference those years:

9, 13, 15, 12, 12, 13.

Average place: 3.5th. Average wins: 12.3.

We are the best team in this conference. Who do you think is better? Middle? WKU? Mar$hall? (put the dollar to prevent certain posters from showing up and making it more poopy)

Over the last 6 years (not including this goofy season):

ODU average place: 3.5
ODU average conference wins: 12.3

WKU avg place: 5
WKU avg conf wins: 11.1

MT avg place: 6
MT avg conf wins: 11.1

Marsh avg place: 6.2
Marsh avg conf wins: 10.3

So what else can you talk about, 'bluelight', other than the types of players Jones recruits or the style of basketball he plays? What else you got?

And yet we only have 1 NCAA bid in all that time. The regular season is for two reasons. 1. Seeding in the conference tournament which leads to #2. Seeding in the NCAA tournament. To me, it's a pretty hollow 20+ win season if it doesnt end in the NCAA or at least the NIT.
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2021 10:45 AM by monarx.)
01-22-2021 10:44 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
Damn. There is actually still a JJ apologist out there. I thought they were all gone.
01-22-2021 11:20 AM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-22-2021 10:17 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 09:49 AM)bluelight Wrote:  POINT IS JJ CAN'T RECRUIT, THEREFORE, HE HAS TO LIVE OFF TRANSFERS
IF NCAA PASSES NEW RULE, YOU WILL SEE MOST OF JJ'S RECRUITS, TRANSFERS OR JC. MAYBE WE CAN CUT OWN RECRUITING BUDGET, AND FORGET ABOUT SPENDING TIME AND MONEY ON HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS.

Jones is navigating the best team in the conference over the last 6 years and you can't convince me otherwise. Sure, it's not saying much that we are the least smelling poop in the poopy conference. But it's the hand he's been dealt.

Getting this level of performance and wins is what matters. Who actually gives a F how he gets there, via freshman or transfers or bigs or smalls? Fast ball or slow ball? Seriously, he just keeps winning and people like you keep finding ways to hate him.

Here's our finishes over the last 7 years.

8th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 3rd.

Wins in conference those years:

9, 13, 15, 12, 12, 13.

Average place: 3.5th. Average wins: 12.3.

We are the best team in this conference. Who do you think is better? Middle? WKU? Mar$hall? (put the dollar to prevent certain posters from showing up and making it more poopy)

Over the last 6 years (not including this goofy season):

ODU average place: 3.5
ODU average conference wins: 12.3

WKU avg place: 5
WKU avg conf wins: 11.1

MT avg place: 6
MT avg conf wins: 11.1

Marsh avg place: 6.2
Marsh avg conf wins: 10.3

So what else can you talk about, 'bluelight', other than the types of players Jones recruits or the style of basketball he plays? What else you got?

Finishing 2nd or lower is of little consequence if it doesn't lead to a post season bid (NCAA or NIT) like the team that finished 1st received. I'm not OK with ODU being measured by how many times they were the closest "also ran" team unless they were awarded with one of the two aforementioned tournaments. To me that IS the measuring stick. I would also add that being very competitive with the better teams in the off conference schedule is important as well.
01-22-2021 11:27 AM
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BigBlueMonarch Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-22-2021 11:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Damn. There is actually still a JJ apologist out there. I thought they were all gone.

I still think JJ is a decent coach and has done good things. But, we seem to have hit a plateau. I think it is time to move on and would feel this way regardless of who was coach. But if we didn't make a change, I have no major issues with JJ continuing as coach.
01-22-2021 11:45 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-22-2021 11:45 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 11:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Damn. There is actually still a JJ apologist out there. I thought they were all gone.

I still think JJ is a decent coach and has done good things. But, we seem to have hit a plateau. I think it is time to move on and would feel this way regardless of who was coach. But if we didn't make a change, I have no major issues with JJ continuing as coach.

Same. JJ is an excellent coach. Im ok with moving on to the next guy; recognizing that there is a chance that it completely blows up in our face.

Unfortunately, despite having a very good record compared to previous coaches, he will not be remembered as fondly because he wasn't a young hotshot coach that they wanted.
01-22-2021 11:58 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-22-2021 11:58 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 11:45 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 11:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Damn. There is actually still a JJ apologist out there. I thought they were all gone.

I still think JJ is a decent coach and has done good things. But, we seem to have hit a plateau. I think it is time to move on and would feel this way regardless of who was coach. But if we didn't make a change, I have no major issues with JJ continuing as coach.

Same. JJ is an excellent coach. Im ok with moving on to the next guy; recognizing that there is a chance that it completely blows up in our face.

Unfortunately, despite having a very good record compared to previous coaches, he will not be remembered as fondly because he wasn't a young hotshot coach that they wanted.

He won't be remembered fondly because he has fewer championships and post season appearances than Jeff Capel. I guess he's better than Tom Young, but even thats debatable.
01-22-2021 12:14 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-22-2021 11:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Damn. There is actually still a JJ apologist out there. I thought they were all gone.

Don't worry bud I've hit my 2 posts for the year quota already in January, you won't see much of me again.

Thanks for the quality reply per usual.
01-22-2021 01:17 PM
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ODU_NYG Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-22-2021 12:14 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 11:58 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 11:45 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 11:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Damn. There is actually still a JJ apologist out there. I thought they were all gone.

I still think JJ is a decent coach and has done good things. But, we seem to have hit a plateau. I think it is time to move on and would feel this way regardless of who was coach. But if we didn't make a change, I have no major issues with JJ continuing as coach.

Same. JJ is an excellent coach. Im ok with moving on to the next guy; recognizing that there is a chance that it completely blows up in our face.

Unfortunately, despite having a very good record compared to previous coaches, he will not be remembered as fondly because he wasn't a young hotshot coach that they wanted.

He won't be remembered fondly because he has fewer championships and post season appearances than Jeff Capel. I guess he's better than Tom Young, but even thats debatable.

His ceiling is putting together an above average team in a crappy conference. I think that when he was hired that's what a lot of us expected to get. That was certainly my opinion at the time.

And if having it blow up in our faces means we can reset again in 2-3 years, I think its worth the risk. However, were still stuck in this conference so whoever is coaching the team already has a built in strike against him.
01-22-2021 01:22 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-22-2021 12:14 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 11:58 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 11:45 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 11:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Damn. There is actually still a JJ apologist out there. I thought they were all gone.

I still think JJ is a decent coach and has done good things. But, we seem to have hit a plateau. I think it is time to move on and would feel this way regardless of who was coach. But if we didn't make a change, I have no major issues with JJ continuing as coach.

Same. JJ is an excellent coach. Im ok with moving on to the next guy; recognizing that there is a chance that it completely blows up in our face.

Unfortunately, despite having a very good record compared to previous coaches, he will not be remembered as fondly because he wasn't a young hotshot coach that they wanted.

He won't be remembered fondly because he has fewer championships and post season appearances than Jeff Capel. I guess he's better than Tom Young, but even thats debatable.

He didn't get gifted a roster like Jeff Capel, who did almost nothing after that. OTOH, he had to get out of a 5-25 season with little talent on hand.

Webb 177-87 .670
Jones- 161-90 .641
Purnel- 57-33 .633
BT- 239-144 .624
Capel- 122-98 .555
Young 90-87 .508
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2021 01:30 PM by Gilesfan.)
01-22-2021 01:28 PM
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bluelight Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-22-2021 11:27 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 10:17 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 09:49 AM)bluelight Wrote:  POINT IS JJ CAN'T RECRUIT, THEREFORE, HE HAS TO LIVE OFF TRANSFERS
IF NCAA PASSES NEW RULE, YOU WILL SEE MOST OF JJ'S RECRUITS, TRANSFERS OR JC. MAYBE WE CAN CUT OWN RECRUITING BUDGET, AND FORGET ABOUT SPENDING TIME AND MONEY ON HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS.

Jones is navigating the best team in the conference over the last 6 years and you can't convince me otherwise. Sure, it's not saying much that we are the least smelling poop in the poopy conference. But it's the hand he's been dealt.

Getting this level of performance and wins is what matters. Who actually gives a F how he gets there, via freshman or transfers or bigs or smalls? Fast ball or slow ball? Seriously, he just keeps winning and people like you keep finding ways to hate him.

Here's our finishes over the last 7 years.

8th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 3rd.

Wins in conference those years:

9, 13, 15, 12, 12, 13.

Average place: 3.5th. Average wins: 12.3.

We are the best team in this conference. Who do you think is better? Middle? WKU? Mar$hall? (put the dollar to prevent certain posters from showing up and making it more poopy)

Over the last 6 years (not including this goofy season):

ODU average place: 3.5
ODU average conference wins: 12.3

WKU avg place: 5
WKU avg conf wins: 11.1

MT avg place: 6
MT avg conf wins: 11.1

Marsh avg place: 6.2
Marsh avg conf wins: 10.3

So what else can you talk about, 'bluelight', other than the types of players Jones recruits or the style of basketball he plays? What else you got?

Finishing 2nd or lower is of little consequence if it doesn't lead to a post season bid (NCAA or NIT) like the team that finished 1st received. I'm not OK with ODU being measured by how many times they were the closest "also ran" team unless they were awarded with one of the two aforementioned tournaments. To me that IS the measuring stick. I would also add that being very competitive with the better teams in the off conference schedule is important as well.

AFTER WATCHING FIU,FAU AND RICE (6 GAMES) AS BAD AS WE PLAYED, THIS CONFERENCE MAY BE WORSE, THAN THE CAA. TURNOVER CITY. CAN'T WAIT TO THE THE OTHER THUGS SHOW UP. WE MISSED OUR CALLING, BY NOT GOING IN THE A10
I PREDICT AFTER REECE, KLA, OLIVER, ETC LEAVE, JJ WILL RETIRE. TWO FRESHMEN THIS YEAR (NOT PLAYING) AND 3 2STAR BACK COURT PLAYERS NEXT YEAR. THAT MAKES 5 FRESHMEN OR SOPHS WITH NO EXPIERENCE AS OUR KEY PLAYERS AFTER 2022.
JJ WILL PLUG SOME MORE ALSO RANS IN, UNLESS WOODIE HAS A SAY BUT HE HAS TO GO ALSO. FOOTBALL LOOKS LIKE OUR ONLY BRIGHT FUTURE. I WOULD TAKE INDEPENDENT FOOTBALL AND A10 BASKETBALL. THE A10 IS MORE CENTRAL, BETTER ORGANIZED AND MORE TV EXPOSURE
01-22-2021 01:49 PM
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ODU_NYG Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
What's with the all caps, man?
01-22-2021 02:47 PM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball Recruiting: 2021
(01-22-2021 12:14 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 11:58 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 11:45 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 11:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Damn. There is actually still a JJ apologist out there. I thought they were all gone.

I still think JJ is a decent coach and has done good things. But, we seem to have hit a plateau. I think it is time to move on and would feel this way regardless of who was coach. But if we didn't make a change, I have no major issues with JJ continuing as coach.

Same. JJ is an excellent coach. Im ok with moving on to the next guy; recognizing that there is a chance that it completely blows up in our face.

Unfortunately, despite having a very good record compared to previous coaches, he will not be remembered as fondly because he wasn't a young hotshot coach that they wanted.

He won't be remembered fondly because he has fewer championships and post season appearances than Jeff Capel. I guess he's better than Tom Young, but even thats debatable.

Yes. That is the real reason. I would add that post season appearances should only include the NCAA and NIT tournaments to be counted as relevant to this discussion.
01-22-2021 03:33 PM
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