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doss2 Online
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Post: #41
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-10-2021 01:39 AM)Cattidude Wrote:  I've mentioned it before but if Wright State does fail I'd like to see UC and OSU partner together to take it over. Just make it our version of IUPUI. I'd think with UC and OSU working closer together in the state government that we could get it accomplished
As a core campus of Indiana University, IUPUI is governed by the IU Board of Trustees. IU supplies 15 schools and PU only 2 (Eng & Tech, Science).

Why would THE OSU want or need UC as a partner. I wonder if OSU thinks all state schools should just be OSU Branches?
 
02-10-2021 05:22 AM
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RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-10-2021 05:22 AM)doss2 Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 01:39 AM)Cattidude Wrote:  I've mentioned it before but if Wright State does fail I'd like to see UC and OSU partner together to take it over. Just make it our version of IUPUI. I'd think with UC and OSU working closer together in the state government that we could get it accomplished
As a core campus of Indiana University, IUPUI is governed by the IU Board of Trustees. IU supplies 15 schools and PU only 2 (Eng & Tech, Science).

Why would THE OSU want or need UC as a partner. I wonder if OSU thinks all state schools should just be OSU Branches?

I think you know the answer to that.
 
02-10-2021 08:09 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
I don't think OSU has any desire to take over other campuses. Why sink their endowment money into turning around some cluster**** like Akron or BG. Those schools would only drag them down. WSU only makes sense as a branch for them if it means more collaboration with WPAFB and a big inflow of DoD research funding. There's nothing there other than the physical presence that OSU needs. Heck, OSU never even wanted branch campuses back in the day and only started theirs in response to the other schools piling them on, in particular OU. What's ironic is that they now use those branch campuses to warehouse a bunch of 25-27 ACT kids for a year or two that OU would kill to have in Athens as freshmen.

What OSU wants is fewer campuses and a more structured and defined system. They might be willing to collaborate with a non-ONO run UC if it served that purpose. UC gets to wet their beek in the WPAFB/DoD pond, and in return OSU gets a reliable partner against the other schools in structuring the system.
 
02-10-2021 09:25 AM
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Post: #44
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-10-2021 09:25 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I don't think OSU has any desire to take over other campuses. Why sink their endowment money into turning around some cluster**** like Akron or BG. Those schools would only drag them down. WSU only makes sense as a branch for them if it means more collaboration with WPAFB and a big inflow of DoD research funding. There's nothing there other than the physical presence that OSU needs. Heck, OSU never even wanted branch campuses back in the day and only started theirs in response to the other schools piling them on, in particular OU. What's ironic is that they now use those branch campuses to warehouse a bunch of 25-27 ACT kids for a year or two that OU would kill to have in Athens as freshmen.

What OSU wants is fewer campuses and a more structured and defined system. They might be willing to collaborate with a non-ONO run UC if it served that purpose. UC gets to wet their beek in the WPAFB/DoD pond, and in return OSU gets a reliable partner against the other schools in structuring the system.

Wright State is a different animal entirely as you stated. OSU won't touch Akron or any other major campus...those will be regional partnerships, if anything.

I've said numerous times, but I think the way of the future if we want to have a successful HE infrastructure in the state, would be the regionally assess inefficiencies and develop educational partnerships between schools like KSU/Akron, UT/BGSU, etc. Having those individual schools which are focused far more on student instruction than national perception offer redundant degrees just does nothing for them anymore with the dwindling enrollment picture in Ohio. Would UT's engineering school be better if they could reallocate some of the funding from their tiny. yet expensive, education or fine arts schools? Could BGSU become a dominant education and life sciences campus if they dump their fools errand of developing and unaccredited engineering school? Same with Kent State/Akron and nursing or education or technology. I'd say yes to a lot of these types of situations.

Centralizing electives between two institutions and focusing all efforts/funding on the "points of pride" for each school instead is the way of progress for schools which will never really be "ranked" institutions (BGSU, UT, Kent, Akron, CSU).
 
02-10-2021 09:37 AM
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RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
Wright State also has a decent medical school and nursing program. A lot of young military docs complete their residency through WSU at Miami Valley Hospital.
 
02-10-2021 09:45 AM
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RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-10-2021 09:45 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Wright State also has a decent medical school and nursing program. A lot of young military docs complete their residency through WSU at Miami Valley Hospital.

Yep...they are a valuable commodity because of their DoD connections and graduate programs. Honestly, I could see UD getting involved in some of that too if it goes to market instead of legislation when things get fully downhill...they could want a Medical School (no inside knowledge, but good medical schools/residency programs pay for themselves multiple times over).

Dayton already has one individual Medical-only school in Kettering, so I doubt WSU Medical would operate on its own. Boonshoft is a decent Primary Care Medical School, but they're MD only, which seems to be an industry inefficiency now...would be interesting if Ohio State tried to do a similar thing that UT-Austin is doing in Houston...although the incentive there is that Houston is an enormous city and Dayton has a metro population around 600,000.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2021 09:56 AM by BearcatMan.)
02-10-2021 09:48 AM
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Post: #47
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-10-2021 09:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 09:25 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I don't think OSU has any desire to take over other campuses. Why sink their endowment money into turning around some cluster**** like Akron or BG. Those schools would only drag them down. WSU only makes sense as a branch for them if it means more collaboration with WPAFB and a big inflow of DoD research funding. There's nothing there other than the physical presence that OSU needs. Heck, OSU never even wanted branch campuses back in the day and only started theirs in response to the other schools piling them on, in particular OU. What's ironic is that they now use those branch campuses to warehouse a bunch of 25-27 ACT kids for a year or two that OU would kill to have in Athens as freshmen.

What OSU wants is fewer campuses and a more structured and defined system. They might be willing to collaborate with a non-ONO run UC if it served that purpose. UC gets to wet their beek in the WPAFB/DoD pond, and in return OSU gets a reliable partner against the other schools in structuring the system.

Wright State is a different animal entirely as you stated. OSU won't touch Akron or any other major campus...those will be regional partnerships, if anything.

I've said numerous times, but I think the way of the future if we want to have a successful HE infrastructure in the state, would be the regionally assess inefficiencies and develop educational partnerships between schools like KSU/Akron, UT/BGSU, etc. Having those individual schools which are focused far more on student instruction than national perception offer redundant degrees just does nothing for them anymore with the dwindling enrollment picture in Ohio. Would UT's engineering school be better if they could reallocate some of the funding from their tiny. yet expensive, education or fine arts schools? Could BGSU become a dominant education and life sciences campus if they dump their fools errand of developing and unaccredited engineering school? Same with Kent State/Akron and nursing or education or technology. I'd say yes to a lot of these types of situations.

Centralizing electives between two institutions and focusing all efforts/funding on the "points of pride" for each school instead is the way of progress for schools which will never really be "ranked" institutions (BGSU, UT, Kent, Akron, CSU).

I do like your regional partnerships concept. It makes so much sense that state government will probably never do it.

One fly in the ointment continues to be tenured faculty at existing institutions where their academic departments are being phased out. My guess is some combination of the following could be offered: a certain group nearing retirement within a couple years would simply set the bar for the planned phase out year and retire at that date; the next tier could be offered an early retirement buyout or the option to move elsewhere in the Ohio system to finish their careers. The youngest tenured faculty would be offered opportunities at the other state universities and/or outplacement services only.

This is a pathway that businesses must pursue daily to survive but is foreign to higher education. But all Ohioans must face a new reality in a state with diminishing college aged prospective students. There will need to be a different path forward--even for that tenured sociology professor who believed he was guaranteed lifetime employment in beautiful downtown Akron.
 
02-10-2021 10:09 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-10-2021 10:09 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 09:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 09:25 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I don't think OSU has any desire to take over other campuses. Why sink their endowment money into turning around some cluster**** like Akron or BG. Those schools would only drag them down. WSU only makes sense as a branch for them if it means more collaboration with WPAFB and a big inflow of DoD research funding. There's nothing there other than the physical presence that OSU needs. Heck, OSU never even wanted branch campuses back in the day and only started theirs in response to the other schools piling them on, in particular OU. What's ironic is that they now use those branch campuses to warehouse a bunch of 25-27 ACT kids for a year or two that OU would kill to have in Athens as freshmen.

What OSU wants is fewer campuses and a more structured and defined system. They might be willing to collaborate with a non-ONO run UC if it served that purpose. UC gets to wet their beek in the WPAFB/DoD pond, and in return OSU gets a reliable partner against the other schools in structuring the system.

Wright State is a different animal entirely as you stated. OSU won't touch Akron or any other major campus...those will be regional partnerships, if anything.

I've said numerous times, but I think the way of the future if we want to have a successful HE infrastructure in the state, would be the regionally assess inefficiencies and develop educational partnerships between schools like KSU/Akron, UT/BGSU, etc. Having those individual schools which are focused far more on student instruction than national perception offer redundant degrees just does nothing for them anymore with the dwindling enrollment picture in Ohio. Would UT's engineering school be better if they could reallocate some of the funding from their tiny. yet expensive, education or fine arts schools? Could BGSU become a dominant education and life sciences campus if they dump their fools errand of developing and unaccredited engineering school? Same with Kent State/Akron and nursing or education or technology. I'd say yes to a lot of these types of situations.

Centralizing electives between two institutions and focusing all efforts/funding on the "points of pride" for each school instead is the way of progress for schools which will never really be "ranked" institutions (BGSU, UT, Kent, Akron, CSU).

I do like your regional partnerships concept. It makes so much sense that state government will probably never do it.

One fly in the ointment continues to be tenured faculty at existing institutions where their academic departments are being phased out. My guess is some combination of the following could be offered: a certain group nearing retirement within a couple years would simply set the bar for the planned phase out year and retire at that date; the next tier could be offered an early retirement buyout or the option to move elsewhere in the Ohio system to finish their careers. The youngest tenured faculty would be offered opportunities at the other state universities and/or outplacement services only.

This is a pathway that businesses must pursue daily to survive but is foreign to higher education. But all Ohioans must face a new reality in a state with diminishing college aged prospective students. There will need to be a different path forward--even for that tenured sociology professor who believed he was guaranteed lifetime employment in beautiful downtown Akron.

The problem is that most universities are run by the tenured faculty. Most higher-up admin roles are filled by former tenured faculty. And hiring committees for all positions (even President) are composed almost entirely of tenured faculty.

University President is a tough job. There's a lot of groups that can effectively get you fired. The board, the governor, students, political activists, even the football players (look at Mizzou). But the most prickly and the most powerful of those groups is the tenured faculty.

You're not going to convince Akron's tenured faculty to hire a Provost or a President whose stated goal is to wind down unprofitable departments. That's a non-starter.
 
02-10-2021 10:34 AM
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Post: #49
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-10-2021 10:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:09 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 09:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 09:25 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I don't think OSU has any desire to take over other campuses. Why sink their endowment money into turning around some cluster**** like Akron or BG. Those schools would only drag them down. WSU only makes sense as a branch for them if it means more collaboration with WPAFB and a big inflow of DoD research funding. There's nothing there other than the physical presence that OSU needs. Heck, OSU never even wanted branch campuses back in the day and only started theirs in response to the other schools piling them on, in particular OU. What's ironic is that they now use those branch campuses to warehouse a bunch of 25-27 ACT kids for a year or two that OU would kill to have in Athens as freshmen.

What OSU wants is fewer campuses and a more structured and defined system. They might be willing to collaborate with a non-ONO run UC if it served that purpose. UC gets to wet their beek in the WPAFB/DoD pond, and in return OSU gets a reliable partner against the other schools in structuring the system.

Wright State is a different animal entirely as you stated. OSU won't touch Akron or any other major campus...those will be regional partnerships, if anything.

I've said numerous times, but I think the way of the future if we want to have a successful HE infrastructure in the state, would be the regionally assess inefficiencies and develop educational partnerships between schools like KSU/Akron, UT/BGSU, etc. Having those individual schools which are focused far more on student instruction than national perception offer redundant degrees just does nothing for them anymore with the dwindling enrollment picture in Ohio. Would UT's engineering school be better if they could reallocate some of the funding from their tiny. yet expensive, education or fine arts schools? Could BGSU become a dominant education and life sciences campus if they dump their fools errand of developing and unaccredited engineering school? Same with Kent State/Akron and nursing or education or technology. I'd say yes to a lot of these types of situations.

Centralizing electives between two institutions and focusing all efforts/funding on the "points of pride" for each school instead is the way of progress for schools which will never really be "ranked" institutions (BGSU, UT, Kent, Akron, CSU).

I do like your regional partnerships concept. It makes so much sense that state government will probably never do it.

One fly in the ointment continues to be tenured faculty at existing institutions where their academic departments are being phased out. My guess is some combination of the following could be offered: a certain group nearing retirement within a couple years would simply set the bar for the planned phase out year and retire at that date; the next tier could be offered an early retirement buyout or the option to move elsewhere in the Ohio system to finish their careers. The youngest tenured faculty would be offered opportunities at the other state universities and/or outplacement services only.

This is a pathway that businesses must pursue daily to survive but is foreign to higher education. But all Ohioans must face a new reality in a state with diminishing college aged prospective students. There will need to be a different path forward--even for that tenured sociology professor who believed he was guaranteed lifetime employment in beautiful downtown Akron.

The problem is that most universities are run by the tenured faculty. Most higher-up admin roles are filled by former tenured faculty. And hiring committees for all positions (even President) are composed almost entirely of tenured faculty.

University President is a tough job. There's a lot of groups that can effectively get you fired. The board, the governor, students, political activists, even the football players (look at Mizzou). But the most prickly and the most powerful of those groups is the tenured faculty.

You're not going to convince Akron's tenured faculty to hire a Provost or a President whose stated goal is to wind down unprofitable departments. That's a non-starter.

I think Akron's been closing down departments already. I really wonder what percentage of tenured faculty they even have left. Their one point of pride was that polymer program, and I heard Duke raided it and left the carcass behind a few years ago. How much say do the faculty really have in hiring Presidents? I thought it was largely the board that made those decisions. I'd guess at an AAU school where the faculty clearly have options to move on, their opinions have to be taken into consideration. I just don't see what power the Akron faculty have.
 
02-11-2021 09:39 AM
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Post: #50
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-11-2021 09:39 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:09 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 09:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 09:25 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I don't think OSU has any desire to take over other campuses. Why sink their endowment money into turning around some cluster**** like Akron or BG. Those schools would only drag them down. WSU only makes sense as a branch for them if it means more collaboration with WPAFB and a big inflow of DoD research funding. There's nothing there other than the physical presence that OSU needs. Heck, OSU never even wanted branch campuses back in the day and only started theirs in response to the other schools piling them on, in particular OU. What's ironic is that they now use those branch campuses to warehouse a bunch of 25-27 ACT kids for a year or two that OU would kill to have in Athens as freshmen.

What OSU wants is fewer campuses and a more structured and defined system. They might be willing to collaborate with a non-ONO run UC if it served that purpose. UC gets to wet their beek in the WPAFB/DoD pond, and in return OSU gets a reliable partner against the other schools in structuring the system.

Wright State is a different animal entirely as you stated. OSU won't touch Akron or any other major campus...those will be regional partnerships, if anything.

I've said numerous times, but I think the way of the future if we want to have a successful HE infrastructure in the state, would be the regionally assess inefficiencies and develop educational partnerships between schools like KSU/Akron, UT/BGSU, etc. Having those individual schools which are focused far more on student instruction than national perception offer redundant degrees just does nothing for them anymore with the dwindling enrollment picture in Ohio. Would UT's engineering school be better if they could reallocate some of the funding from their tiny. yet expensive, education or fine arts schools? Could BGSU become a dominant education and life sciences campus if they dump their fools errand of developing and unaccredited engineering school? Same with Kent State/Akron and nursing or education or technology. I'd say yes to a lot of these types of situations.

Centralizing electives between two institutions and focusing all efforts/funding on the "points of pride" for each school instead is the way of progress for schools which will never really be "ranked" institutions (BGSU, UT, Kent, Akron, CSU).

I do like your regional partnerships concept. It makes so much sense that state government will probably never do it.

One fly in the ointment continues to be tenured faculty at existing institutions where their academic departments are being phased out. My guess is some combination of the following could be offered: a certain group nearing retirement within a couple years would simply set the bar for the planned phase out year and retire at that date; the next tier could be offered an early retirement buyout or the option to move elsewhere in the Ohio system to finish their careers. The youngest tenured faculty would be offered opportunities at the other state universities and/or outplacement services only.

This is a pathway that businesses must pursue daily to survive but is foreign to higher education. But all Ohioans must face a new reality in a state with diminishing college aged prospective students. There will need to be a different path forward--even for that tenured sociology professor who believed he was guaranteed lifetime employment in beautiful downtown Akron.

The problem is that most universities are run by the tenured faculty. Most higher-up admin roles are filled by former tenured faculty. And hiring committees for all positions (even President) are composed almost entirely of tenured faculty.

University President is a tough job. There's a lot of groups that can effectively get you fired. The board, the governor, students, political activists, even the football players (look at Mizzou). But the most prickly and the most powerful of those groups is the tenured faculty.

You're not going to convince Akron's tenured faculty to hire a Provost or a President whose stated goal is to wind down unprofitable departments. That's a non-starter.

I think Akron's been closing down departments already. I really wonder what percentage of tenured faculty they even have left. Their one point of pride was that polymer program, and I heard Duke raided it and left the carcass behind a few years ago. How much say do the faculty really have in hiring Presidents? I thought it was largely the board that made those decisions. I'd guess at an AAU school where the faculty clearly have options to move on, their opinions have to be taken into consideration. I just don't see what power the Akron faculty have.

Bolded, heard that too. If true, shame on Ohio leadership letting that go to a private university in North Carolina. I have no love for OSU but I guess as an OH taxpayer I'd be happier if that asset remained in state, even with the folks in Columbus than to the research triangle.
 
02-11-2021 09:53 AM
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Post: #51
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-11-2021 09:53 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:39 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:09 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 09:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Wright State is a different animal entirely as you stated. OSU won't touch Akron or any other major campus...those will be regional partnerships, if anything.

I've said numerous times, but I think the way of the future if we want to have a successful HE infrastructure in the state, would be the regionally assess inefficiencies and develop educational partnerships between schools like KSU/Akron, UT/BGSU, etc. Having those individual schools which are focused far more on student instruction than national perception offer redundant degrees just does nothing for them anymore with the dwindling enrollment picture in Ohio. Would UT's engineering school be better if they could reallocate some of the funding from their tiny. yet expensive, education or fine arts schools? Could BGSU become a dominant education and life sciences campus if they dump their fools errand of developing and unaccredited engineering school? Same with Kent State/Akron and nursing or education or technology. I'd say yes to a lot of these types of situations.

Centralizing electives between two institutions and focusing all efforts/funding on the "points of pride" for each school instead is the way of progress for schools which will never really be "ranked" institutions (BGSU, UT, Kent, Akron, CSU).

I do like your regional partnerships concept. It makes so much sense that state government will probably never do it.

One fly in the ointment continues to be tenured faculty at existing institutions where their academic departments are being phased out. My guess is some combination of the following could be offered: a certain group nearing retirement within a couple years would simply set the bar for the planned phase out year and retire at that date; the next tier could be offered an early retirement buyout or the option to move elsewhere in the Ohio system to finish their careers. The youngest tenured faculty would be offered opportunities at the other state universities and/or outplacement services only.

This is a pathway that businesses must pursue daily to survive but is foreign to higher education. But all Ohioans must face a new reality in a state with diminishing college aged prospective students. There will need to be a different path forward--even for that tenured sociology professor who believed he was guaranteed lifetime employment in beautiful downtown Akron.

The problem is that most universities are run by the tenured faculty. Most higher-up admin roles are filled by former tenured faculty. And hiring committees for all positions (even President) are composed almost entirely of tenured faculty.

University President is a tough job. There's a lot of groups that can effectively get you fired. The board, the governor, students, political activists, even the football players (look at Mizzou). But the most prickly and the most powerful of those groups is the tenured faculty.

You're not going to convince Akron's tenured faculty to hire a Provost or a President whose stated goal is to wind down unprofitable departments. That's a non-starter.

I think Akron's been closing down departments already. I really wonder what percentage of tenured faculty they even have left. Their one point of pride was that polymer program, and I heard Duke raided it and left the carcass behind a few years ago. How much say do the faculty really have in hiring Presidents? I thought it was largely the board that made those decisions. I'd guess at an AAU school where the faculty clearly have options to move on, their opinions have to be taken into consideration. I just don't see what power the Akron faculty have.

Bolded, heard that too. If true, shame on Ohio leadership letting that go to a private university in North Carolina. I have no love for OSU but I guess as an OH taxpayer I'd be happier if that asset remained in state, even with the folks in Columbus than to the research triangle.

Yep, their lead researcher left and took his entire PhD team with him. They're a husk and have been reorganizing and cutting staff/faculty to try to get ahead of their budget.
 
02-11-2021 10:07 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-11-2021 09:53 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:39 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:09 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 09:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Wright State is a different animal entirely as you stated. OSU won't touch Akron or any other major campus...those will be regional partnerships, if anything.

I've said numerous times, but I think the way of the future if we want to have a successful HE infrastructure in the state, would be the regionally assess inefficiencies and develop educational partnerships between schools like KSU/Akron, UT/BGSU, etc. Having those individual schools which are focused far more on student instruction than national perception offer redundant degrees just does nothing for them anymore with the dwindling enrollment picture in Ohio. Would UT's engineering school be better if they could reallocate some of the funding from their tiny. yet expensive, education or fine arts schools? Could BGSU become a dominant education and life sciences campus if they dump their fools errand of developing and unaccredited engineering school? Same with Kent State/Akron and nursing or education or technology. I'd say yes to a lot of these types of situations.

Centralizing electives between two institutions and focusing all efforts/funding on the "points of pride" for each school instead is the way of progress for schools which will never really be "ranked" institutions (BGSU, UT, Kent, Akron, CSU).

I do like your regional partnerships concept. It makes so much sense that state government will probably never do it.

One fly in the ointment continues to be tenured faculty at existing institutions where their academic departments are being phased out. My guess is some combination of the following could be offered: a certain group nearing retirement within a couple years would simply set the bar for the planned phase out year and retire at that date; the next tier could be offered an early retirement buyout or the option to move elsewhere in the Ohio system to finish their careers. The youngest tenured faculty would be offered opportunities at the other state universities and/or outplacement services only.

This is a pathway that businesses must pursue daily to survive but is foreign to higher education. But all Ohioans must face a new reality in a state with diminishing college aged prospective students. There will need to be a different path forward--even for that tenured sociology professor who believed he was guaranteed lifetime employment in beautiful downtown Akron.

The problem is that most universities are run by the tenured faculty. Most higher-up admin roles are filled by former tenured faculty. And hiring committees for all positions (even President) are composed almost entirely of tenured faculty.

University President is a tough job. There's a lot of groups that can effectively get you fired. The board, the governor, students, political activists, even the football players (look at Mizzou). But the most prickly and the most powerful of those groups is the tenured faculty.

You're not going to convince Akron's tenured faculty to hire a Provost or a President whose stated goal is to wind down unprofitable departments. That's a non-starter.

I think Akron's been closing down departments already. I really wonder what percentage of tenured faculty they even have left. Their one point of pride was that polymer program, and I heard Duke raided it and left the carcass behind a few years ago. How much say do the faculty really have in hiring Presidents? I thought it was largely the board that made those decisions. I'd guess at an AAU school where the faculty clearly have options to move on, their opinions have to be taken into consideration. I just don't see what power the Akron faculty have.

Bolded, heard that too. If true, shame on Ohio leadership letting that go to a private university in North Carolina. I have no love for OSU but I guess as an OH taxpayer I'd be happier if that asset remained in state, even with the folks in Columbus than to the research triangle.

My guess is that Duke offered way more than what anyone else would pay those people. If a deep-pocketed university decides that it's a strategic priority to spend whatever it takes to add talent in a specific area, the price tag gets steep very quickly.

When I graduated from my PhD, Missouri and UT-Dallas were "money-whipping" people in business schools to try to join the elite.

Especially Mizzou. They were supposedly paying double the market rate, and not even for top-notch people. They even took U of Illinois' MBA program director by doubling his salary, and that's for an admin position. It put them in a rough spot after they hit a serious budget crunch (that's another story, but their business school had to return a 5 million endowment for not following the terms of the donation, and this was at about the same time that enrollment declined 30% because the football team fired the President of the University).

If a university wants to join the elite, they almost have to take this strategy. Academic reputation is extremely hierarchical, extremely valuable for your career, and extremely hard for a university to change. Even paying double the market rate, Mizzou would still lose a lot of recruiting battles for faculty when the faculty member had an offer from a Big Ten school (Nebraska & Iowa excepted).
 
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2021 10:23 AM by Captain Bearcat.)
02-11-2021 10:18 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-11-2021 09:39 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:09 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 09:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 09:25 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I don't think OSU has any desire to take over other campuses. Why sink their endowment money into turning around some cluster**** like Akron or BG. Those schools would only drag them down. WSU only makes sense as a branch for them if it means more collaboration with WPAFB and a big inflow of DoD research funding. There's nothing there other than the physical presence that OSU needs. Heck, OSU never even wanted branch campuses back in the day and only started theirs in response to the other schools piling them on, in particular OU. What's ironic is that they now use those branch campuses to warehouse a bunch of 25-27 ACT kids for a year or two that OU would kill to have in Athens as freshmen.

What OSU wants is fewer campuses and a more structured and defined system. They might be willing to collaborate with a non-ONO run UC if it served that purpose. UC gets to wet their beek in the WPAFB/DoD pond, and in return OSU gets a reliable partner against the other schools in structuring the system.

Wright State is a different animal entirely as you stated. OSU won't touch Akron or any other major campus...those will be regional partnerships, if anything.

I've said numerous times, but I think the way of the future if we want to have a successful HE infrastructure in the state, would be the regionally assess inefficiencies and develop educational partnerships between schools like KSU/Akron, UT/BGSU, etc. Having those individual schools which are focused far more on student instruction than national perception offer redundant degrees just does nothing for them anymore with the dwindling enrollment picture in Ohio. Would UT's engineering school be better if they could reallocate some of the funding from their tiny. yet expensive, education or fine arts schools? Could BGSU become a dominant education and life sciences campus if they dump their fools errand of developing and unaccredited engineering school? Same with Kent State/Akron and nursing or education or technology. I'd say yes to a lot of these types of situations.

Centralizing electives between two institutions and focusing all efforts/funding on the "points of pride" for each school instead is the way of progress for schools which will never really be "ranked" institutions (BGSU, UT, Kent, Akron, CSU).

I do like your regional partnerships concept. It makes so much sense that state government will probably never do it.

One fly in the ointment continues to be tenured faculty at existing institutions where their academic departments are being phased out. My guess is some combination of the following could be offered: a certain group nearing retirement within a couple years would simply set the bar for the planned phase out year and retire at that date; the next tier could be offered an early retirement buyout or the option to move elsewhere in the Ohio system to finish their careers. The youngest tenured faculty would be offered opportunities at the other state universities and/or outplacement services only.

This is a pathway that businesses must pursue daily to survive but is foreign to higher education. But all Ohioans must face a new reality in a state with diminishing college aged prospective students. There will need to be a different path forward--even for that tenured sociology professor who believed he was guaranteed lifetime employment in beautiful downtown Akron.

The problem is that most universities are run by the tenured faculty. Most higher-up admin roles are filled by former tenured faculty. And hiring committees for all positions (even President) are composed almost entirely of tenured faculty.

University President is a tough job. There's a lot of groups that can effectively get you fired. The board, the governor, students, political activists, even the football players (look at Mizzou). But the most prickly and the most powerful of those groups is the tenured faculty.

You're not going to convince Akron's tenured faculty to hire a Provost or a President whose stated goal is to wind down unprofitable departments. That's a non-starter.

I think Akron's been closing down departments already. I really wonder what percentage of tenured faculty they even have left. Their one point of pride was that polymer program, and I heard Duke raided it and left the carcass behind a few years ago. How much say do the faculty really have in hiring Presidents? I thought it was largely the board that made those decisions. I'd guess at an AAU school where the faculty clearly have options to move on, their opinions have to be taken into consideration. I just don't see what power the Akron faculty have.

Interestingly enough, when Akron hired their recent President, "the full Board of Trustees is serving as the presidential search committee."

https://www.uakron.edu/dotAsset/46f35406...d87feb.pdf


That's really unusual. My current school is running a Presidential search right now, and almost 2/3 of the members are current or former faculty.

Having worked in corporate America, it still seems odd to me that no one realizes how unusual it is to have any input at all on who your boss is.
 
02-11-2021 10:42 AM
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robertfoshizzle Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-11-2021 10:18 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:53 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:39 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:09 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  I do like your regional partnerships concept. It makes so much sense that state government will probably never do it.

One fly in the ointment continues to be tenured faculty at existing institutions where their academic departments are being phased out. My guess is some combination of the following could be offered: a certain group nearing retirement within a couple years would simply set the bar for the planned phase out year and retire at that date; the next tier could be offered an early retirement buyout or the option to move elsewhere in the Ohio system to finish their careers. The youngest tenured faculty would be offered opportunities at the other state universities and/or outplacement services only.

This is a pathway that businesses must pursue daily to survive but is foreign to higher education. But all Ohioans must face a new reality in a state with diminishing college aged prospective students. There will need to be a different path forward--even for that tenured sociology professor who believed he was guaranteed lifetime employment in beautiful downtown Akron.

The problem is that most universities are run by the tenured faculty. Most higher-up admin roles are filled by former tenured faculty. And hiring committees for all positions (even President) are composed almost entirely of tenured faculty.

University President is a tough job. There's a lot of groups that can effectively get you fired. The board, the governor, students, political activists, even the football players (look at Mizzou). But the most prickly and the most powerful of those groups is the tenured faculty.

You're not going to convince Akron's tenured faculty to hire a Provost or a President whose stated goal is to wind down unprofitable departments. That's a non-starter.

I think Akron's been closing down departments already. I really wonder what percentage of tenured faculty they even have left. Their one point of pride was that polymer program, and I heard Duke raided it and left the carcass behind a few years ago. How much say do the faculty really have in hiring Presidents? I thought it was largely the board that made those decisions. I'd guess at an AAU school where the faculty clearly have options to move on, their opinions have to be taken into consideration. I just don't see what power the Akron faculty have.

Bolded, heard that too. If true, shame on Ohio leadership letting that go to a private university in North Carolina. I have no love for OSU but I guess as an OH taxpayer I'd be happier if that asset remained in state, even with the folks in Columbus than to the research triangle.

My guess is that Duke offered way more than what anyone else would pay those people. If a deep-pocketed university decides that it's a strategic priority to spend whatever it takes to add talent in a specific area, the price tag gets steep very quickly.

When I graduated from my PhD, Missouri and UT-Dallas were "money-whipping" people in business schools to try to join the elite.

Especially Mizzou. They were supposedly paying double the market rate, and not even for top-notch people. They even took U of Illinois' MBA program director by doubling his salary, and that's for an admin position. It put them in a rough spot after they hit a serious budget crunch (that's another story, but their business school had to return a 5 million endowment for not following the terms of the donation, and this was at about the same time that enrollment declined 30% because the football team fired the President of the University).

If a university wants to join the elite, they almost have to take this strategy. Academic reputation is extremely hierarchical, extremely valuable for your career, and extremely hard for a university to change. Even paying double the market rate, Mizzou would still lose a lot of recruiting battles for faculty when the faculty member had an offer from a Big Ten school (Nebraska & Iowa excepted).

I wonder if Missouri regrets going to the SEC. Sure, they get more money than the Big 12, but if they had held out a little longer, maybe the Big Ten would have taken them. Would have been a much better fit geographically, academically, culturally, and for the fans as well.
 
02-11-2021 12:13 PM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-11-2021 12:13 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 10:18 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:53 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:39 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  The problem is that most universities are run by the tenured faculty. Most higher-up admin roles are filled by former tenured faculty. And hiring committees for all positions (even President) are composed almost entirely of tenured faculty.

University President is a tough job. There's a lot of groups that can effectively get you fired. The board, the governor, students, political activists, even the football players (look at Mizzou). But the most prickly and the most powerful of those groups is the tenured faculty.

You're not going to convince Akron's tenured faculty to hire a Provost or a President whose stated goal is to wind down unprofitable departments. That's a non-starter.

I think Akron's been closing down departments already. I really wonder what percentage of tenured faculty they even have left. Their one point of pride was that polymer program, and I heard Duke raided it and left the carcass behind a few years ago. How much say do the faculty really have in hiring Presidents? I thought it was largely the board that made those decisions. I'd guess at an AAU school where the faculty clearly have options to move on, their opinions have to be taken into consideration. I just don't see what power the Akron faculty have.

Bolded, heard that too. If true, shame on Ohio leadership letting that go to a private university in North Carolina. I have no love for OSU but I guess as an OH taxpayer I'd be happier if that asset remained in state, even with the folks in Columbus than to the research triangle.

My guess is that Duke offered way more than what anyone else would pay those people. If a deep-pocketed university decides that it's a strategic priority to spend whatever it takes to add talent in a specific area, the price tag gets steep very quickly.

When I graduated from my PhD, Missouri and UT-Dallas were "money-whipping" people in business schools to try to join the elite.

Especially Mizzou. They were supposedly paying double the market rate, and not even for top-notch people. They even took U of Illinois' MBA program director by doubling his salary, and that's for an admin position. It put them in a rough spot after they hit a serious budget crunch (that's another story, but their business school had to return a 5 million endowment for not following the terms of the donation, and this was at about the same time that enrollment declined 30% because the football team fired the President of the University).

If a university wants to join the elite, they almost have to take this strategy. Academic reputation is extremely hierarchical, extremely valuable for your career, and extremely hard for a university to change. Even paying double the market rate, Mizzou would still lose a lot of recruiting battles for faculty when the faculty member had an offer from a Big Ten school (Nebraska & Iowa excepted).

I wonder if Missouri regrets going to the SEC. Sure, they get more money than the Big 12, but if they had held out a little longer, maybe the Big Ten would have taken them. Would have been a much better fit geographically, academically, culturally, and for the fans as well.

Bolded, maybe so. But in many ways, culturally, Missouri is a southern state and outside St. Louis and Kansas City is a lot more like Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky all of which are now SEC rivals in bordering states. From a football prestige standpoint, the SEC has no rival right now.
 
02-11-2021 01:23 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-11-2021 01:23 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 12:13 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 10:18 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:53 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:39 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I think Akron's been closing down departments already. I really wonder what percentage of tenured faculty they even have left. Their one point of pride was that polymer program, and I heard Duke raided it and left the carcass behind a few years ago. How much say do the faculty really have in hiring Presidents? I thought it was largely the board that made those decisions. I'd guess at an AAU school where the faculty clearly have options to move on, their opinions have to be taken into consideration. I just don't see what power the Akron faculty have.

Bolded, heard that too. If true, shame on Ohio leadership letting that go to a private university in North Carolina. I have no love for OSU but I guess as an OH taxpayer I'd be happier if that asset remained in state, even with the folks in Columbus than to the research triangle.

My guess is that Duke offered way more than what anyone else would pay those people. If a deep-pocketed university decides that it's a strategic priority to spend whatever it takes to add talent in a specific area, the price tag gets steep very quickly.

When I graduated from my PhD, Missouri and UT-Dallas were "money-whipping" people in business schools to try to join the elite.

Especially Mizzou. They were supposedly paying double the market rate, and not even for top-notch people. They even took U of Illinois' MBA program director by doubling his salary, and that's for an admin position. It put them in a rough spot after they hit a serious budget crunch (that's another story, but their business school had to return a 5 million endowment for not following the terms of the donation, and this was at about the same time that enrollment declined 30% because the football team fired the President of the University).

If a university wants to join the elite, they almost have to take this strategy. Academic reputation is extremely hierarchical, extremely valuable for your career, and extremely hard for a university to change. Even paying double the market rate, Mizzou would still lose a lot of recruiting battles for faculty when the faculty member had an offer from a Big Ten school (Nebraska & Iowa excepted).

I wonder if Missouri regrets going to the SEC. Sure, they get more money than the Big 12, but if they had held out a little longer, maybe the Big Ten would have taken them. Would have been a much better fit geographically, academically, culturally, and for the fans as well.

Bolded, maybe so. But in many ways, culturally, Missouri is a southern state and outside St. Louis and Kansas City is a lot more like Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky all of which are now SEC rivals in bordering states. From a football prestige standpoint, the SEC has no rival right now.

Yeah, and I mean, I don't think the Big Ten would've picked Mizzou over any of the three they invited. DC, NYC, and Nebraska, which at the time was still considered a valuable athletic department product given their success in the Big 12 in Football and were still in the AAU as well.
 
02-11-2021 01:27 PM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-11-2021 09:53 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:39 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:09 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 09:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Wright State is a different animal entirely as you stated. OSU won't touch Akron or any other major campus...those will be regional partnerships, if anything.

I've said numerous times, but I think the way of the future if we want to have a successful HE infrastructure in the state, would be the regionally assess inefficiencies and develop educational partnerships between schools like KSU/Akron, UT/BGSU, etc. Having those individual schools which are focused far more on student instruction than national perception offer redundant degrees just does nothing for them anymore with the dwindling enrollment picture in Ohio. Would UT's engineering school be better if they could reallocate some of the funding from their tiny. yet expensive, education or fine arts schools? Could BGSU become a dominant education and life sciences campus if they dump their fools errand of developing and unaccredited engineering school? Same with Kent State/Akron and nursing or education or technology. I'd say yes to a lot of these types of situations.

Centralizing electives between two institutions and focusing all efforts/funding on the "points of pride" for each school instead is the way of progress for schools which will never really be "ranked" institutions (BGSU, UT, Kent, Akron, CSU).

I do like your regional partnerships concept. It makes so much sense that state government will probably never do it.

One fly in the ointment continues to be tenured faculty at existing institutions where their academic departments are being phased out. My guess is some combination of the following could be offered: a certain group nearing retirement within a couple years would simply set the bar for the planned phase out year and retire at that date; the next tier could be offered an early retirement buyout or the option to move elsewhere in the Ohio system to finish their careers. The youngest tenured faculty would be offered opportunities at the other state universities and/or outplacement services only.

This is a pathway that businesses must pursue daily to survive but is foreign to higher education. But all Ohioans must face a new reality in a state with diminishing college aged prospective students. There will need to be a different path forward--even for that tenured sociology professor who believed he was guaranteed lifetime employment in beautiful downtown Akron.

The problem is that most universities are run by the tenured faculty. Most higher-up admin roles are filled by former tenured faculty. And hiring committees for all positions (even President) are composed almost entirely of tenured faculty.

University President is a tough job. There's a lot of groups that can effectively get you fired. The board, the governor, students, political activists, even the football players (look at Mizzou). But the most prickly and the most powerful of those groups is the tenured faculty.

You're not going to convince Akron's tenured faculty to hire a Provost or a President whose stated goal is to wind down unprofitable departments. That's a non-starter.

I think Akron's been closing down departments already. I really wonder what percentage of tenured faculty they even have left. Their one point of pride was that polymer program, and I heard Duke raided it and left the carcass behind a few years ago. How much say do the faculty really have in hiring Presidents? I thought it was largely the board that made those decisions. I'd guess at an AAU school where the faculty clearly have options to move on, their opinions have to be taken into consideration. I just don't see what power the Akron faculty have.

Bolded, heard that too. If true, shame on Ohio leadership letting that go to a private university in North Carolina. I have no love for OSU but I guess as an OH taxpayer I'd be happier if that asset remained in state, even with the folks in Columbus than to the research triangle.

I'm sure that OSU could have taken it at any time, but it would have been a really tone-deaf move politically, and that's not OSU. Even if the state had the time to figure out what was going on and approach OSU to make a counteroffer against Duke, they probably wouldn't have because every other school in the state would have started complaining about it and using it against them. Sucks that it left the state, but given the politics of the state and the higher education system, OSU was probably right to just sit it out. Maybe they--or UC--are now free to start building a similar program now that it won't be viewed as undercutting Akron.
 
02-12-2021 09:51 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-12-2021 09:51 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:53 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:39 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:09 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  I do like your regional partnerships concept. It makes so much sense that state government will probably never do it.

One fly in the ointment continues to be tenured faculty at existing institutions where their academic departments are being phased out. My guess is some combination of the following could be offered: a certain group nearing retirement within a couple years would simply set the bar for the planned phase out year and retire at that date; the next tier could be offered an early retirement buyout or the option to move elsewhere in the Ohio system to finish their careers. The youngest tenured faculty would be offered opportunities at the other state universities and/or outplacement services only.

This is a pathway that businesses must pursue daily to survive but is foreign to higher education. But all Ohioans must face a new reality in a state with diminishing college aged prospective students. There will need to be a different path forward--even for that tenured sociology professor who believed he was guaranteed lifetime employment in beautiful downtown Akron.

The problem is that most universities are run by the tenured faculty. Most higher-up admin roles are filled by former tenured faculty. And hiring committees for all positions (even President) are composed almost entirely of tenured faculty.

University President is a tough job. There's a lot of groups that can effectively get you fired. The board, the governor, students, political activists, even the football players (look at Mizzou). But the most prickly and the most powerful of those groups is the tenured faculty.

You're not going to convince Akron's tenured faculty to hire a Provost or a President whose stated goal is to wind down unprofitable departments. That's a non-starter.

I think Akron's been closing down departments already. I really wonder what percentage of tenured faculty they even have left. Their one point of pride was that polymer program, and I heard Duke raided it and left the carcass behind a few years ago. How much say do the faculty really have in hiring Presidents? I thought it was largely the board that made those decisions. I'd guess at an AAU school where the faculty clearly have options to move on, their opinions have to be taken into consideration. I just don't see what power the Akron faculty have.

Bolded, heard that too. If true, shame on Ohio leadership letting that go to a private university in North Carolina. I have no love for OSU but I guess as an OH taxpayer I'd be happier if that asset remained in state, even with the folks in Columbus than to the research triangle.

I'm sure that OSU could have taken it at any time, but it would have been a really tone-deaf move politically, and that's not OSU. Even if the state had the time to figure out what was going on and approach OSU to make a counteroffer against Duke, they probably wouldn't have because every other school in the state would have started complaining about it and using it against them. Sucks that it left the state, but given the politics of the state and the higher education system, OSU was probably right to just sit it out. Maybe they--or UC--are now free to start building a similar program now that it won't be viewed as undercutting Akron.

Duke didn't buy the Department or anything...they just hired away a faculty member (who happened to be the most prolific researcher within that department by a significant order of magnitude over any other). It's not there was a "bid" process or anything, just a personnel move.
 
02-12-2021 10:48 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-12-2021 10:48 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(02-12-2021 09:51 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:53 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:39 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-10-2021 10:34 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  The problem is that most universities are run by the tenured faculty. Most higher-up admin roles are filled by former tenured faculty. And hiring committees for all positions (even President) are composed almost entirely of tenured faculty.

University President is a tough job. There's a lot of groups that can effectively get you fired. The board, the governor, students, political activists, even the football players (look at Mizzou). But the most prickly and the most powerful of those groups is the tenured faculty.

You're not going to convince Akron's tenured faculty to hire a Provost or a President whose stated goal is to wind down unprofitable departments. That's a non-starter.

I think Akron's been closing down departments already. I really wonder what percentage of tenured faculty they even have left. Their one point of pride was that polymer program, and I heard Duke raided it and left the carcass behind a few years ago. How much say do the faculty really have in hiring Presidents? I thought it was largely the board that made those decisions. I'd guess at an AAU school where the faculty clearly have options to move on, their opinions have to be taken into consideration. I just don't see what power the Akron faculty have.

Bolded, heard that too. If true, shame on Ohio leadership letting that go to a private university in North Carolina. I have no love for OSU but I guess as an OH taxpayer I'd be happier if that asset remained in state, even with the folks in Columbus than to the research triangle.

I'm sure that OSU could have taken it at any time, but it would have been a really tone-deaf move politically, and that's not OSU. Even if the state had the time to figure out what was going on and approach OSU to make a counteroffer against Duke, they probably wouldn't have because every other school in the state would have started complaining about it and using it against them. Sucks that it left the state, but given the politics of the state and the higher education system, OSU was probably right to just sit it out. Maybe they--or UC--are now free to start building a similar program now that it won't be viewed as undercutting Akron.

Duke didn't buy the Department or anything...they just hired away a faculty member (who happened to be the most prolific researcher within that department by a significant order of magnitude over any other). It's not there was a "bid" process or anything, just a personnel move.

I'm aware. I meant the state asking OSU to make the prof a counter-offer and bring his lab, research funding and doctoral students down to Columbus instead of taking them to NC. And I think OSU would have still backed away so as not to be seen poaching an in-state school. Besides, now they're free to build up something of their own if they want to and without any political blowback. Something UC should also be considering.
 
02-12-2021 10:57 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Record Number of Applicants, enrollment to swell
(02-12-2021 10:57 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-12-2021 10:48 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(02-12-2021 09:51 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:53 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-11-2021 09:39 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I think Akron's been closing down departments already. I really wonder what percentage of tenured faculty they even have left. Their one point of pride was that polymer program, and I heard Duke raided it and left the carcass behind a few years ago. How much say do the faculty really have in hiring Presidents? I thought it was largely the board that made those decisions. I'd guess at an AAU school where the faculty clearly have options to move on, their opinions have to be taken into consideration. I just don't see what power the Akron faculty have.

Bolded, heard that too. If true, shame on Ohio leadership letting that go to a private university in North Carolina. I have no love for OSU but I guess as an OH taxpayer I'd be happier if that asset remained in state, even with the folks in Columbus than to the research triangle.

I'm sure that OSU could have taken it at any time, but it would have been a really tone-deaf move politically, and that's not OSU. Even if the state had the time to figure out what was going on and approach OSU to make a counteroffer against Duke, they probably wouldn't have because every other school in the state would have started complaining about it and using it against them. Sucks that it left the state, but given the politics of the state and the higher education system, OSU was probably right to just sit it out. Maybe they--or UC--are now free to start building a similar program now that it won't be viewed as undercutting Akron.

Duke didn't buy the Department or anything...they just hired away a faculty member (who happened to be the most prolific researcher within that department by a significant order of magnitude over any other). It's not there was a "bid" process or anything, just a personnel move.

I'm aware. I meant the state asking OSU to make the prof a counter-offer and bring his lab, research funding and doctoral students down to Columbus instead of taking them to NC. And I think OSU would have still backed away so as not to be seen poaching an in-state school. Besides, now they're free to build up something of their own if they want to and without any political blowback. Something UC should also be considering.

The same thing happened to Case Western's biomedical engineering program in the early 00s. In 2001, they had arguably the top program in the nation. Then their 3 top people all got ridiculous offers elsewhere. They moved their whole PhD staffs and took their grants with them. The department was still top-15 after that, but previously it had been the premiere department in any of Ohio's universities.

Since then, I've realized that a mass exodus like that is usually a sign of serious personality clashes (or worse). In a private business, you can fire someone who is toxic to the workplace, or you can put two people who hate each other in different departments. But tenured professors are stuck with each other until retirement.

Actually, that's not completely true. You can get fired for fraud. I know of a Yale prof who was fired for double-billing the World Bank and Yale for business trips (which is a crazy stupid thing to do when you're making $500k/year). And I know of one tenured professor at Indiana who was fired because he treated everyone below him like dirt. But those are exceedingly rare cases.
 
02-12-2021 11:20 AM
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