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Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
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CliftonAve Online
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Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
Borrowed this from another forum on this board, but I can remember about 10-11 years ago a lot of the Big East football playing schools ruled the roost and wondering why we needed those crazy basketball schools. Now all those football schools are shadows of what they were then in their new conference homes.

(02-01-2021 05:35 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  https://nypost.com/2021/01/31/abandoning...-dame/amp/

Pretty good article. A great example of why abandoning conferences for a big payday isn't the best idea for the other sports. Let this sink in for admin across the country thinking about greener pastures.
 
02-01-2021 05:49 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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RE: Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
Yep. I said it at the time: Pitt was played by the ACC.

The ACC threatened to take Syracuse and UConn if Pitt said no. Pitt panicked and made a decision that was not in their best interests.
 
02-01-2021 06:11 PM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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RE: Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
Yeah...well, all those schools are sitting in a "Power" conference, cashing the checks and guaranteed survival and relevance. And we're sitting in the AAC, having to choose between which major sport we're going to fund and which ones we're going to sacrifice.

I think Pitt, Syracuse, VaTech and all the rest did the right thing and that any resentment towards them is just jealousy. If UC had been approached by the ACC, I'd be screaming if they didn't take the ticket.

If "abandoning the Big East" was a "disaster," then what was "staying in and trying to hold the conference together"?
 
02-01-2021 06:31 PM
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RE: Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
(02-01-2021 06:31 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  Yeah...well, all those schools are sitting in a "Power" conference, cashing the checks and guaranteed survival and relevance. And we're sitting in the AAC, having to choose between which major sport we're going to fund and which ones we're going to sacrifice.

I think Pitt, Syracuse, VaTech and all the rest did the right thing and that any resentment towards them is just jealousy. If UC had been approached by the ACC, I'd be screaming if they didn't take the ticket.

If "abandoning the Big East" was a "disaster," then what was "staying in and trying to hold the conference together"?

Pitt was the glue that held the conference together. If they had stayed, no one would have left.

That's the difference.

Pitt would be more relevant today if the Big East had stayed together. And they'd probably make about the same money from the conference.

They'd probably be making more money overall after you consider ticket sales. Consider: Pitt's average attendance was 4,116 in basketball and 41,696 in football in 2018. That's not a typo.
 
02-01-2021 06:41 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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RE: Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
All this moving around has also destroyed regionalism [for travel] and rivalries. That's what pisses me off the most from our current conference affiliation - who the hell is really a rivarly? Memphis might be the only one you could qualify and that is based on past conference membership with them and they're still within a reasonable geographic proximity. I loved playing DaVille and Pitt in the Big East every year. That was great for fan travel, fan interest and we shared some similar urban campuses/culture. DaVille was a rival in both football and hoops and Pitt was fast becoming one in both. If you look at some of the extreme outlier programs in terms of their proximity to the other schools - they are out of place in so many ways. For example, Boston College in the extreme north end of the ACC footprint and Nebraska in the extreme western end of the B1G. Who the hell cares about a Nebraska vs Rutgers game and likewise for Boston College vs Georgia Tech. The Super Conference model be damned but that is the way of the all mighty dollar.
 
02-01-2021 07:58 PM
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RE: Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
(02-01-2021 07:58 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  All this moving around has also destroyed regionalism [for travel] and rivalries. That's what pisses me off the most from our current conference affiliation - who the hell is really a rivarly? Memphis might be the only one you could qualify and that is based on past conference membership with them and they're still within a reasonable geographic proximity. I loved playing DaVille and Pitt in the Big East every year. That was great for fan travel, fan interest and we shared some similar urban campuses/culture. DaVille was a rival in both football and hoops and Pitt was fast becoming one in both. If you look at some of the extreme outlier programs in terms of their proximity to the other schools - they are out of place in so many ways. For example, Boston College in the extreme north end of the ACC footprint and Nebraska in the extreme western end of the B1G. Who the hell cares about a Nebraska vs Rutgers game and likewise for Boston College vs Georgia Tech. The Super Conference model be damned but that is the way of the all mighty dollar.

Remember when Huggins used to joke about having coached in more conferences at one school (UC) than any coach in history? It was a good one liner but it also speaks to the enormous challenge UC sports have faced over more than a century of affiliation changes.

My friends who are fans of schools in the B10 and SEC, never experience anything more than their own conference from cradle to grave. Most are blessed with longstanding rivalries against in-state or border state conference foes. That UC has succeeded as a national champion in basketball and an NY6 competitor in football is really quite remarkable given the obstacles created by lack of rivals and conference prestige. Someone should write a history of the Bearcats' crazy conference membership journey someday.

With all that said, I think most of our frustration with potential realignment stems from knowing how much UC has achieved given these challenges and how much higher Bearcat football and basketball could rise given the prestige, revenue, and high profile rivals (Clemson, Duke) that schools such as Pitt and Syracuse seem to have squandered in their time in the ACC.
 
02-02-2021 08:55 AM
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RE: Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
I think the biggest issue for UC has been basketball recruiting. You move from the top conference and country to the 7th best. Football was in 6th best conference before in the Big East and now is currently in the 6th best conference. Gaining fair access to post season playoff is a challenge for everyone not named Ohio State, Alabama, Oklahoma, and Clemson... ok a left out a few but you get the idea.

I believe UC is fine being the big fish in a smaller pond as long as access to post season is available. Fans enjoy winning not paychecks to the school. There is more excitement when you are in the mix for NY6 bowls and NCAA tournament bids than being a mid pack team that will never compete for a championship. UC could win in the ACC or Big XII but I don’t feel it is a sure thing or prerequisite for success.
 
02-02-2021 09:06 AM
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RE: Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
(02-02-2021 09:06 AM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  I think the biggest issue for UC has been basketball recruiting. You move from the top conference and country to the 7th best. Football was in 6th best conference before in the Big East and now is currently in the 6th best conference. Gaining fair access to post season playoff is a challenge for everyone not named Ohio State, Alabama, Oklahoma, and Clemson... ok a left out a few but you get the idea.

I believe UC is fine being the big fish in a smaller pond as long as access to post season is available. Fans enjoy winning not paychecks to the school. There is more excitement when you are in the mix for NY6 bowls and NCAA tournament bids than being a mid pack team that will never compete for a championship. UC could win in the ACC or Big XII but I don’t feel it is a sure thing or prerequisite for success.

Ultimately i believe in bball it's much easier to recruit success than football. I'd argue that right now competitive wise we've got the best football program of Pitt, Syc, Lvl, Wv and obviously Uconn and recruiting has not slacked at all. Facilities are good, and we have the right leadership. Obviously we've had a coaching transition which may or may not payoff as we're trying to convert to a different style of play. Overall, Mick to me in the BE or after was a bit of a disappointment recruiting wise, and he really didn't get the benefit of a renovated Shoe. Time will tell, but the pieces are there with the right people to be very competitive, particularly in the one and done world today. This year is a disaster for a lot of teams, and i'm beginning to wonder where it ends anyways.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2021 09:31 AM by dsquare.)
02-02-2021 09:30 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
(02-02-2021 08:55 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-01-2021 07:58 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  All this moving around has also destroyed regionalism [for travel] and rivalries. That's what pisses me off the most from our current conference affiliation - who the hell is really a rivarly? Memphis might be the only one you could qualify and that is based on past conference membership with them and they're still within a reasonable geographic proximity. I loved playing DaVille and Pitt in the Big East every year. That was great for fan travel, fan interest and we shared some similar urban campuses/culture. DaVille was a rival in both football and hoops and Pitt was fast becoming one in both. If you look at some of the extreme outlier programs in terms of their proximity to the other schools - they are out of place in so many ways. For example, Boston College in the extreme north end of the ACC footprint and Nebraska in the extreme western end of the B1G. Who the hell cares about a Nebraska vs Rutgers game and likewise for Boston College vs Georgia Tech. The Super Conference model be damned but that is the way of the all mighty dollar.

Remember when Huggins used to joke about having coached in more conferences at one school (UC) than any coach in history? It was a good one liner but it also speaks to the enormous challenge UC sports have faced over more than a century of affiliation changes.

My friends who are fans of schools in the B10 and SEC, never experience anything more than their own conference from cradle to grave. Most are blessed with longstanding rivalries against in-state or border state conference foes. That UC has succeeded as a national champion in basketball and an NY6 competitor in football is really quite remarkable given the obstacles created by lack of rivals and conference prestige. Someone should write a history of the Bearcats' crazy conference membership journey someday.

With all that said, I think most of our frustration with potential realignment stems from knowing how much UC has achieved given these challenges and how much higher Bearcat football and basketball could rise given the prestige, revenue, and high profile rivals (Clemson, Duke) that schools such as Pitt and Syracuse seem to have squandered in their time in the ACC.

40 years of rooting for them and they have never really had a home that was organic. UC has always had to be a part of self manufactured conferences cobbled together out of group desperation for the relative short term. Metro, Great Midwest, CUSA, reformed Big East, AAC...

Due to geography and the limited number of potential matches in athletic and institutional profile, that’s probably not going to change. This is home until we help form another far flung version. When the P5 autonomous sea change occurs in a few years, my guess is the AAC goes kaput and we help form another version to try to keep up with the Joneses.
 
02-02-2021 10:01 AM
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RE: Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
(02-02-2021 10:01 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(02-02-2021 08:55 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-01-2021 07:58 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  All this moving around has also destroyed regionalism [for travel] and rivalries. That's what pisses me off the most from our current conference affiliation - who the hell is really a rivarly? Memphis might be the only one you could qualify and that is based on past conference membership with them and they're still within a reasonable geographic proximity. I loved playing DaVille and Pitt in the Big East every year. That was great for fan travel, fan interest and we shared some similar urban campuses/culture. DaVille was a rival in both football and hoops and Pitt was fast becoming one in both. If you look at some of the extreme outlier programs in terms of their proximity to the other schools - they are out of place in so many ways. For example, Boston College in the extreme north end of the ACC footprint and Nebraska in the extreme western end of the B1G. Who the hell cares about a Nebraska vs Rutgers game and likewise for Boston College vs Georgia Tech. The Super Conference model be damned but that is the way of the all mighty dollar.

Remember when Huggins used to joke about having coached in more conferences at one school (UC) than any coach in history? It was a good one liner but it also speaks to the enormous challenge UC sports have faced over more than a century of affiliation changes.

My friends who are fans of schools in the B10 and SEC, never experience anything more than their own conference from cradle to grave. Most are blessed with longstanding rivalries against in-state or border state conference foes. That UC has succeeded as a national champion in basketball and an NY6 competitor in football is really quite remarkable given the obstacles created by lack of rivals and conference prestige. Someone should write a history of the Bearcats' crazy conference membership journey someday.

With all that said, I think most of our frustration with potential realignment stems from knowing how much UC has achieved given these challenges and how much higher Bearcat football and basketball could rise given the prestige, revenue, and high profile rivals (Clemson, Duke) that schools such as Pitt and Syracuse seem to have squandered in their time in the ACC.

40 years of rooting for them and they have never really had a home that was organic. UC has always had to be a part of self manufactured conferences cobbled together out of group desperation for the relative short term. Metro, Great Midwest, CUSA, reformed Big East, AAC...

Due to geography and the limited number of potential matches in athletic and institutional profile, that’s probably not going to change. This is home until we help form another far flung version. When the P5 autonomous sea change occurs in a few years, my guess is the AAC goes kaput and we help form another version to try to keep up with the Joneses.

Well written. And past history would suggest that the AAC is a rental and not a home we'll own for a long time. I'm counting on the sea change you speak of as the opening that enables UC to take a step up. What, when, and where that will be--who really knows?
 
02-02-2021 10:13 AM
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RE: Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
(02-01-2021 06:11 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Yep. I said it at the time: Pitt was played by the ACC.

The ACC threatened to take Syracuse and UConn if Pitt said no. Pitt panicked and made a decision that was totally selfish and looking out only for big #1.

FIFY
 
02-02-2021 12:52 PM
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RE: Abandoning The Big East has been a disaster for Schools
Hopefully when things play out next time, whatever conference UC lands in doesn’t panic and go after the teams that don’t really offer much except the outsider perception of being mid major... East Carolina, Tulane, Tulsa, Temple, etc.
 
02-02-2021 06:34 PM
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