(02-02-2021 01:27 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  I detest the phrase..but we DO have a "good loss" to VCU on our side. Nice momentum, keep it going Dukes! Tons of games in the next two weeks.

Agree on both comments. Perhaps the transition game for this program.

(02-01-2021 09:24 AM)Dukester Wrote:  As far as root'n for JMU I'm a homer, but as most as you know as far as evaluating our teams I'm relatively unbiased.

What I said is what any other coach would say - in the CAA NE, HU, and JMU are playing the best in the CAA. No homer - just reality.

I still say this year is as wide open as any in CAA history, that said I think between NE, HU, and JMU whoever improves the most will have a heck of a shot at a 15th or 14th seed in the NCAA tournament.

This team is better than Matt Brady's 2013 #16 seed. That team got hot for a couple games, but if this team made the tournament it would not be a 16 seed.

Brady's best team was 10/11. This team is not there talent wise, or results with that team. But other than that one year, this year's Duke's are currently playing as well as any of Brady's other years.

Guys, I'm surprised by the relative level of excitement surrounding this year's team. I thought they had a chance to be pretty good prior to the season, but was certainly disappointed in the early going (and thinking they would improve and they have). I think the CAA is pretty bad this year and the conference rankings I've seen bear that out (17 to 19 range as shown on Warren Nolan site). NE is projected as a 15 seed by Joey Brackets.

With respect to the talent of the players, not sure that Byington has brought in superior talent relative to Rowe. Last I checked, Wilson and Banks were doing pretty well, while the App State PG was struggling mightily on the shooting front. Meanwhile, all of the returning JMU guys are key contributors for the most part.

Among the new guys, Strickland has shown the most improvement to my surprise. He looks only about 5-8 or 5-9, but has improved markedly in season. Morse, another small player, can be effective offensively at times, but shoots too much. Amadi plays with great energy, but is also undersized inside. Rashawn Fredericks, looking like the most talented guy, never suited up.

I look forward to the 21 recruits, as they seem to be good fits for Byington's style.

Here are the Kenpom rankings over the recent past:

187 - 21
311 - 20
285 - 19
229- 18
223 - 17
91 - 16 (and he was fired!)
199 - 15
267 - 14
182 - 13 (NCAA tourney)
248 - 12
106 - 11 (Brady's most talented team)
215 - 10
133 - 9

Great thread on in game adjustments by the coaching staff during the Drexel game to contain wynter

https://twitter.com/Shane_DNRSports/stat...37024?s=19

(02-02-2021 02:30 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  

(02-01-2021 09:24 AM)Dukester Wrote:  As far as root'n for JMU I'm a homer, but as most as you know as far as evaluating our teams I'm relatively unbiased.

What I said is what any other coach would say - in the CAA NE, HU, and JMU are playing the best in the CAA. No homer - just reality.

I still say this year is as wide open as any in CAA history, that said I think between NE, HU, and JMU whoever improves the most will have a heck of a shot at a 15th or 14th seed in the NCAA tournament.

This team is better than Matt Brady's 2013 #16 seed. That team got hot for a couple games, but if this team made the tournament it would not be a 16 seed.

Brady's best team was 10/11. This team is not there talent wise, or results with that team. But other than that one year, this year's Duke's are currently playing as well as any of Brady's other years.

Guys, I'm surprised by the relative level of excitement surrounding this year's team. I thought they had a chance to be pretty good prior to the season, but was certainly disappointed in the early going (and thinking they would improve and they have). I think the CAA is pretty bad this year and the conference rankings I've seen bear that out (17 to 19 range as shown on Warren Nolan site). NE is projected as a 15 seed by Joey Brackets.

With respect to the talent of the players, not sure that Byington has brought in superior talent relative to Rowe. Last I checked, Wilson and Banks were doing pretty well, while the App State PG was struggling mightily on the shooting front. Meanwhile, all of the returning JMU guys are key contributors for the most part.

Among the new guys, Strickland has shown the most improvement to my surprise. He looks only about 5-8 or 5-9, but has improved markedly in season. Morse, another small player, can be effective offensively at times, but shoots too much. Amadi plays with great energy, but is also undersized inside. Rashawn Fredericks, looking like the most talented guy, never suited up.

I look forward to the 21 recruits, as they seem to be good fits for Byington's style.

Here are the Kenpom rankings over the recent past:

187 - 21
311 - 20
285 - 19
229- 18
223 - 17
91 - 16 (and he was fired!)
199 - 15
267 - 14
182 - 13 (NCAA tourney)
248 - 12
106 - 11 (Brady's most talented team)
215 - 10
133 - 9

Was surprised Brady's last year was so strong. Sags had it similar. I think the issue was that we got bounced again in our first game versus W&M and were never competitive. Do recall where he was in his contract status.

Sometimes coaches and programs just need a change. IMO we held onto Sherm too long, and I felt same way with Matt.

I think the change for Larranaga to Mason really helped his career. It "appears to me" the change Mark made might really help his career. Sometimes things get stagnant and change is good for all concerned.

On thing that is hugely obvious to me is in Matt's and Mark's first year (so far) they turned the program around quickly.

Coaching matters a ton.

I agree that coaching matters a ton Dukester. Byington has this team playing with pace (often led by freshman) and that's when they're at their best. He's going to have to upgrade the talent if JMU is going to go where we want to see them. The CAA, despite being down this year, is filled with pretty good coaches.

(02-02-2021 03:10 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  I agree that coaching matters a ton Dukester. Byington has this team playing with pace (often led by freshman) and that's when they're at their best. He's going to have to upgrade the talent if JMU is going to go where we want to see them. The CAA, despite being down this year, is filled with pretty good coaches.

I agree. Hopefully he will recruit well, or get lucky. Luck is a part of recruiting. But I think he has enough talent as we speak to be a top contender at the CAA tournament.

Ideally I would occasionally like to be in the at large category. For that we will need more talent.

(02-02-2021 02:48 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  Great thread on in game adjustments by the coaching staff during the Drexel game to contain wynter

https://twitter.com/Shane_DNRSports/stat...37024?s=19

thanks for sharing! I really enjoyed that inside take. Thank you Mr Mettlen as well. He's been good.

Byington was definitely on the radar of UNCW and would have been a fan favorite. Just watch Brownells teams at Clemson and you'll get the defensiive intensity no matter their record. Earl Grant at CofC also spent 4 years with Brownell. Both of those coaches have teams that are always at least middle of the pack based on defense, and I have no doubt Byington will always have a team in the mix.

(02-02-2021 03:10 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  I agree that coaching matters a ton Dukester. Byington has this team playing with pace (often led by freshman) and that's when they're at their best. He's going to have to upgrade the talent if JMU is going to go where we want to see them. The CAA, despite being down this year, is filled with pretty good coaches.

Remember last year Lou had the guys playing with pace early under Oppenheimer new system and it was the best they had looked but a few things happened I believe and they didn’t stick with it. I think Lou was probably stubborn and also the personnel wasn’t completely right for that style. Wilson for example couldn’t run the floor he was a half court guy, they didn’t have enough reliable 3 point shooters or reliable ball Handlers who wouldn’t turn the ball over either.

It wound up being a mess and the guys either lacked quickness or effort to play defense for a full possession. They would start out ok but give up an open shot (layout or 3) time and time again late in the shot clock. It was demoralizing to watch so I can only imagine how demoralizing it was for the players and coaches.

(02-02-2021 08:34 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(02-02-2021 03:10 PM)Dukes84 Wrote:  I agree that coaching matters a ton Dukester. Byington has this team playing with pace (often led by freshman) and that's when they're at their best. He's going to have to upgrade the talent if JMU is going to go where we want to see them. The CAA, despite being down this year, is filled with pretty good coaches.

Remember last year Lou had the guys playing with pace early under Oppenheimer new system and it was the best they had looked but a few things happened I believe and they didn’t stick with it. I think Lou was probably stubborn and also the personnel wasn’t completely right for that style. Wilson for example couldn’t run the floor he was a half court guy, they didn’t have enough reliable 3 point shooters or reliable ball Handlers who wouldn’t turn the ball over either.

It wound up being a mess and the guys either lacked quickness or effort to play defense for a full possession. They would start out ok but give up an open shot (layout or 3) time and time again late in the shot clock. It was demoralizing to watch so I can only imagine how demoralizing it was for the players and coaches.

I remember they had a 13-point lead in the first game vs. Hofstra and then fell apart...from that point on they abandoned that style. As part of that successful stretch, they had a 20-point lead or so versus East Carolina and looked really good. This year, of course, they got thumped by the Pirates.

WAPO today, by the way, has the Colonial winner as a 16 seed in its latest NCAA forecast.

lots of criticism over the years for Bourne and King and their baskeball hiring, justifiably so. We need to give them credit, when credit is due.

- While everyone liked Lou, we can agree he was not ready for the job
- we ended up with Lou, when the search committee was having trouble landing a high quality coach due to lack of facilities. Essentially, coaches were asking for a comp premium (Sanchez)
- admin made the decision not to over pay and to give an alum a shot
- either Lou was going to work out, or we would be looking for a new coach with the arena coming on line
- with the new arena we were able to land a high qualitity coach, without the big salary many on here thought we should pay

whether you agree with it or not, the philosphy is to make the investment in facilities, not coaches salaries (still paying coaches at the top of caa comps)
when you have superior facilities, the job becomes very attractive as coaches know they can win. once this turns around, the hoops job will be just like the football job.
one of the best jobs in mid majors for which we will have our pick of up and coming coaches when and if Coach By moves on.

Lefty wanted to make Maryland the UCLA of the east. Can By make JMU the Gonzaga of the east?

(02-04-2021 04:45 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  lots of criticism over the years for Bourne and King and their baskeball hiring, justifiably so. We need to give them credit, when credit is due.

- While everyone liked Lou, we can agree he was not ready for the job
- we ended up with Lou, when the search committee was having trouble landing a high quality coach due to lack of facilities. Essentially, coaches were asking for a comp premium (Sanchez)
- admin made the decision not to over pay and to give an alum a shot
- either Lou was going to work out, or we would be looking for a new coach with the arena coming on line
- with the new arena we were able to land a high qualitity coach, without the big salary many on here thought we should pay

whether you agree with it or not, the philosphy is to make the investment in facilities, not coaches salaries (still paying coaches at the top of caa comps)
when you have superior facilities, the job becomes very attractive as coaches know they can win. once this turns around, the hoops job will be just like the football job.
one of the best jobs in mid majors for which we will have our pick of up and coming coaches when and if Coach By moves on.

Lefty wanted to make Maryland the UCLA of the east. Can By make JMU the Gonzaga of the east?

While I agree with much of what you said, it was not a binary choice between facilities and coach pay. Which did VCU and ODU choose? A more successful coach in Men's basketball could easily bring in many $100s of thousands in ticket sales, duke club donations, and JMU publicity. That is what has been lost over the prior two decades.

Facilities = Now A+
Hiring of Lou Rowe = F-
Retention and handling of Brady (including year 5) = D
Keener = you choose the grade. Certainly was not highly paid.
Dillard = he was kept due to a donor

Women's attendance the last couple years has doubled the men's team in actual fans in the seats. The majority of men's season tickets sold were no shows at the games.

It was not a binary choice. Poor selection, and management - but not a binary choice.

I don't blame Jeff, because I don't think he was the decision maker.

you are correct, not binary, a jmu philosophy.

We have our football program in a place where we dont need to chase coaches with money. Heck, we have Corey Heatherman as an assistant - leaving the Maine HC job.

I am not sure $$ (without being ridiculous) would have fixed the hire after Brady. Facilities were awful, rural school and coaches didnt think they could win. ODU & VCU have faclities and urban location. They could already attract a good candidate pool and didnt have to over pay. Sanchez, suppossedly our #1, wanted $750k. We didnt not have a good pool of candidates during the lou hire. this round of interviews we did. Jones from Radford, Coach By and Greenberg, to name a few.

Sanchez would have been better than Lou, but he has hardly been a world beater at UNCC. 16-13 last year, his 2nd with the 9ers. 9-7 this year, a few spots ahead of us in the Kenpom

(02-04-2021 04:45 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  lots of criticism over the years for Bourne and King and their baskeball hiring, justifiably so. We need to give them credit, when credit is due.

- While everyone liked Lou, we can agree he was not ready for the job
- we ended up with Lou, when the search committee was having trouble landing a high quality coach due to lack of facilities. Essentially, coaches were asking for a comp premium (Sanchez)
- admin made the decision not to over pay and to give an alum a shot
- either Lou was going to work out, or we would be looking for a new coach with the arena coming on line
- with the new arena we were able to land a high qualitity coach, without the big salary many on here thought we should pay

whether you agree with it or not, the philosphy is to make the investment in facilities, not coaches salaries (still paying coaches at the top of caa comps)
when you have superior facilities, the job becomes very attractive as coaches know they can win. once this turns around, the hoops job will be just like the football job.
one of the best jobs in mid majors for which we will have our pick of up and coming coaches when and if Coach By moves on.

Lefty wanted to make Maryland the UCLA of the east. Can By make JMU the Gonzaga of the east?

Mark Few was a GA at Gonzaga before being the head coach and his heart was always there in the PNW. Not sure we have that same loyalty from By so we're going to need to do a better job than Gonzaga did with paying Few.

He took them to the sweet 16 in his first year and made it 9 more times through 20 straight appearances in the NCAA tournament (only stopped the streak with the COVID cancellation) and he was making 3rd lowest in their league until his latest contract. I doubt we get that luxury. We will need to pay By handsomely as soon as he starts doing good things if we want to retain him. And unlike an FCS football coach, at the NCAA division 1 MBB level if you want to keep the momentum you can't be cheap and hope to get an up and coming coach every time (i.e. it doesn't pay to be a Winthrop because you will have down cycles more than up cycles.)

My hope is that paying him enough to keep him actually becomes an issue. We've had some great years in football because we're a stepping stone. We'd all gladly take that in MBB also. Granted, I also wouldn't mind him selling out that new arena and making enough money to pay him to stay, but either way...it's a win for JMU even if it's short term. Gotta keep winning first.

Now that we are the Gonzaga of the east andd have a $140m arena, can we schedule better and bring a decent team to our own school?

(02-04-2021 10:30 PM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  My hope is that paying him enough to keep him actually becomes an issue. We've had some great years in football because we're a stepping stone. We'd all gladly take that in MBB also. Granted, I also wouldn't mind him selling out that new arena and making enough money to pay him to stay, but either way...it's a win for JMU even if it's short term. Gotta keep winning first.

As PG said I don't think paying a high amount is "a jmu philosophy". It never has been, even with Lefty. I don't think we would see the current admin elevate pay as we've seen at times at VCU and GMU based on success of the program. That said, on retention, I don't know that has hurt us. I was surprised JMU did not give Houston more of an increase based on his success. That said, even if we had increased him more 100s of thousands, it would not have kept him at JMU. It's certainly hurt us on recruiting new coaches.

(02-05-2021 08:28 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Now that we are the Gonzaga of the east andd have a $140m arena, can we schedule better and bring a decent team to our own school?

Jumping the gun a bit on that Gonzaga of the East bit, but based on the schedule HCMB 2.0 put together before the Great Schedule Reshuffling of 2020 it looks like we will have a mix of local teams and P5s on the docket for OOC games. Coach certainly seems to want to challenge his teams, and I think you will see a much different scheduling philosophy than in years past.

(02-05-2021 09:01 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(02-04-2021 10:30 PM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  My hope is that paying him enough to keep him actually becomes an issue. We've had some great years in football because we're a stepping stone. We'd all gladly take that in MBB also. Granted, I also wouldn't mind him selling out that new arena and making enough money to pay him to stay, but either way...it's a win for JMU even if it's short term. Gotta keep winning first.

As PG said I don't think paying a high amount is "a jmu philosophy". It never has been, even with Lefty. I don't think we would see the current admin elevate pay as we've seen at times at VCU and GMU based on success of the program. That said, on retention, I don't know that has hurt us. I was surprised JMU did not give Houston more of an increase based on his success. That said, even if we had increased him more 100s of thousands, it would not have kept him at JMU. It's certainly hurt us on recruiting new coaches.

FCS football and Div 1 MBB are different animals. You can be an FCS powerhouse in FB and because you're the pinnacle of the de facto Division II you get the fame and opportunity for coaches to roll through who are looking for that ladder to advancement to the big show. MBB you can be an actual powerhouse as a mid-major school, but it is almost ALWAYS tied to the coach and rarely (if ever) do we see a program maintain elite status when there is a coaching change. So if you want to make a Gonzaga like run you need to hang onto a great coach for as long as possible.

This is even the case with the P5 big time schools where you can go from a 20 year run of success in the Terry Holland/Jeff Jones years at UVA to a pitiful showing for a decade and then back to elite with Tony Bennett. Georgetown never recovered from the departure of John Thompson, NC State hasn't been the same since Jim Valvano hung them up, and so on. Once Mark Few is gone Gonzaga will really need to knock it out of the park with the next hire to keep it going. There are countless examples of schools where they dropped off when a HC moves on (Winthrop with Gregg Marshall, GMU with Larranaga, Butler with Stevens). If we aspire to become 'Zags east' we'll need to have our coach who's career and identity are tied to the school much like Beamer or coach K. are tied to building and maintaining programs at VT and Duke.

(02-05-2021 08:28 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Now that we are the Gonzaga of the east andd have a $140m arena, can we schedule better and bring a decent team to our own school?

I think his comment was a bit tongue in cheek, but we are certainly finally heading in the right direction. I'm feeling we are well on our way to having a program that can, at least, consistently contend in the CAA - like most of our other sports.

Mark, as head coach, has yet to get a team to the NIT or NCAA, so breaking each ceiling will be special.

I'm really enjoy watching this team and coach progress. Seems like a class guy as well.