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UNSUBSTANTIED CHATTER: Charlotte and ODU to A10/Indy
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solohawks Online
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Post: #481
RE: UNSUBSTANTIED CHATTER: Charlotte and ODU to A10/Indy
(02-26-2021 07:56 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  Hi. I'm an A-10 guy and have been monitoring this while awaiting authorization to join the convo.

1. No one is leaving the A-10 for a lesser league.

2. The "rumor" of the A-10 expanding and "adding FBS football" is an overblown way of saying that if the 4 or 5 C-USA teams did leave and join the A-10 and go independent in football because they'd have enough teams to play, those teams, plus UMass and/or Liberty and New Mexico State, could play each other every year under the A-10 name in order to negotiate bowl tie-ins and try to get some CFP table scrap payments, and BUNDLE TV RIGHTS.

Which sounds essentially the same as "the A-10 adding FBS," except the priority level. The A-10 would be a BASKETBALL LEAGUE, and FBS football would be the same as like, volleyball or baseball. Just another sport we play. We wouldn't be trying to become a "Power 6 Conference" -- because no one has the resources to be P5 level in both basketball and football.

3. That being said, a bunch of programs in C-USA are much much better at being good in both football and MBB than others. It's not quite "East vs West" because FAU/FIU aren't good. It's more like 5 East, UAB and La Tech." And the other seven schools are straight up killing C-USA basketball.

4. I've now seen ODU and Charlotte fans say "Oh, going Indy in football and joining the A-10 in hoops would be awesome!" And a Marshall fan visited the A-10 board I post on saying the same thing (telling me about this forum); and now there's a WKU fan saying it as well.

Which brings me to the big point: If FOUR fan bases/schools of the 5 Eastern C-USA teams good at basketball feel that way, your ADs should be talking to MTSU, UAB, and La Tech because

5. You don't need the A-10, just leave C-USA and form your own league.

Old Dominion, Charlotte, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, UAB, La Tech is seven teams.
That's enough that you'd get an automatic NCAA bid after ZERO or ONE YEAR (like the Big East/American split, or the MWC split).

Invite Liberty and Buffalo as full members; and UMass foot football only.

That is a very solid basketball league, because the win percentage of those programs skyrockets leaving the others behind, enabling your second place team to get an at-large bid.

Forming a new league from scratch is a big roadblock, hence why the A10 comes into play in these discussions
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2021 08:03 PM by solohawks.)
02-26-2021 08:03 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #482
RE: UNSUBSTANTIED CHATTER: Charlotte and ODU to A10/Indy
Just curious: what makes someone “an A-10 guy”? Just a general fan of the league? Got confused because of the ODU fandom.
02-26-2021 08:15 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #483
RE: UNSUBSTANTIED CHATTER: Charlotte and ODU to A10/Indy
(02-26-2021 08:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(02-26-2021 07:56 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  Hi. I'm an A-10 guy and have been monitoring this while awaiting authorization to join the convo.

1. No one is leaving the A-10 for a lesser league.

2. The "rumor" of the A-10 expanding and "adding FBS football" is an overblown way of saying that if the 4 or 5 C-USA teams did leave and join the A-10 and go independent in football because they'd have enough teams to play, those teams, plus UMass and/or Liberty and New Mexico State, could play each other every year under the A-10 name in order to negotiate bowl tie-ins and try to get some CFP table scrap payments, and BUNDLE TV RIGHTS.

Which sounds essentially the same as "the A-10 adding FBS," except the priority level. The A-10 would be a BASKETBALL LEAGUE, and FBS football would be the same as like, volleyball or baseball. Just another sport we play. We wouldn't be trying to become a "Power 6 Conference" -- because no one has the resources to be P5 level in both basketball and football.

3. That being said, a bunch of programs in C-USA are much much better at being good in both football and MBB than others. It's not quite "East vs West" because FAU/FIU aren't good. It's more like 5 East, UAB and La Tech." And the other seven schools are straight up killing C-USA basketball.

4. I've now seen ODU and Charlotte fans say "Oh, going Indy in football and joining the A-10 in hoops would be awesome!" And a Marshall fan visited the A-10 board I post on saying the same thing (telling me about this forum); and now there's a WKU fan saying it as well.

Which brings me to the big point: If FOUR fan bases/schools of the 5 Eastern C-USA teams good at basketball feel that way, your ADs should be talking to MTSU, UAB, and La Tech because

5. You don't need the A-10, just leave C-USA and form your own league.

Old Dominion, Charlotte, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, UAB, La Tech is seven teams.
That's enough that you'd get an automatic NCAA bid after ZERO or ONE YEAR (like the Big East/American split, or the MWC split).

Invite Liberty and Buffalo as full members; and UMass foot football only.

That is a very solid basketball league, because the win percentage of those programs skyrockets leaving the others behind, enabling your second place team to get an at-large bid.

Forming a new league from scratch is a big roadblock, hence why the A10 comes into play in these discussions

Also, it would take 8 full member A10 teams playing FBS football for them to sponsor it. Which would likely lead to an old BE type identity crises because you can't relegate FBS football to volleyball status for those that have it and if you have that many that have it then that would be a substantial block of schools. Which is why I doubt that happens. Taking in ODU in Charlotte or any other member that has FBS football could create a flight risk of those schools but there's no internal conflict.
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #484
RE: UNSUBSTANTIED CHATTER: Charlotte and ODU to A10/Indy
(02-26-2021 08:15 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Just curious: what makes someone “an A-10 guy”? Just a general fan of the league? Got confused because of the ODU fandom.

We've got all types jumping on the bandwagon. Plenty of room for you Hyper, everyone looks good in blue.
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #485
RE: UNSUBSTANTIED CHATTER: Charlotte and ODU to A10/Indy
(Yesterday 10:38 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-26-2021 08:15 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Just curious: what makes someone “an A-10 guy”? Just a general fan of the league? Got confused because of the ODU fandom.

We've got all types jumping on the bandwagon. Plenty of room for you Hyper, everyone looks good in blue.

Lol
Yesterday 10:58 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #486
RE: UNSUBSTANTIED CHATTER: Charlotte and ODU to A10/Indy
(Yesterday 10:38 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-26-2021 08:15 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Just curious: what makes someone “an A-10 guy”? Just a general fan of the league? Got confused because of the ODU fandom.

We've got all types jumping on the bandwagon. Plenty of room for you Hyper, everyone looks good in blue.

I thought the Dukes' colors were purple and gold.
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JSchmack Offline
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Post: #487
RE: UNSUBSTANTIED CHATTER: Charlotte and ODU to A10/Indy
(02-26-2021 08:15 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Just curious: what makes someone “an A-10 guy”? Just a general fan of the league? Got confused because of the ODU fandom.

Went to an A-10 school, found this discussion from a topic on an A-10 board discussing ODU wanting out of C-USA for the A-10. While registering, I saw the C-USA team pulldown menu, so when it asked a favorite team, I just listed ODU.

(Yesterday 10:37 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Also, it would take 8 full member A10 teams playing FBS football for them to sponsor it. Which would likely lead to an old BE type identity crises because you can't relegate FBS football to volleyball status for those that have it and if you have that many that have it then that would be a substantial block of schools. Which is why I doubt that happens. Taking in ODU in Charlotte or any other member that has FBS football could create a flight risk of those schools but there's no internal conflict.

The concept was that ODU was attempting a switch to the A-10 to get into a better basketball league, going independent in football and Charlotte goes with them (brokering the deal as a former A-10 member). Marshall and WKU fans have said
"What about us? We'd want that, too."

If those FOUR joined the A-10, and went Indy for FBS, they can play each other, and UMass, Liberty and New Mexico State every year to fill out a schedule.

Or they could call THAT EXACT THING "Atlantic 10 Football" with 5 full A-10 members and 2 affiliates. That does not meet the requirements for an official FBS conference, it's just "glorified independence." BUT you have a league office making the schedule so you don't have to negotiate 6 games for each season with the others. There's no NY6 access, but (a) that doesn't exist for independents either and (b) that hasn't come up for a C-USA member yet anyway. The A-10 can negotiate bowl tie-ins because they'll have someone who's 4-2 in conference every year. They can TRY to negotiate CFP hush money that C-USA gets when the next CFP deal is up (5 years left).

So if those four are willing to go FBS independent, playing Glorified Indy football in the A-10 is better on the football side of things; and of course, it's a BETTER BASKETBALL LEAGUE than C-USA;

And the Football TV rights can be bundled in with A-10 MBB/WBB rights, and those 4 schools are better off.


Now, if all that is true... you can create the exact same "glorified Indy" scenario in a new league if MTSU, UAB and La Tech decide they'd be better off with the 4 C-USA schools who want out than remaining in C-USA. You'd need an 8th full member to start the clock on becoming an official FBS conference. Liberty would definitely do it and Buffalo might as well (and UMass would love to play football with that league).

You'd get all the benefits I laid out above in the "A10 glorified FBS Indy" concept; only after 8 years, it would become a full FBS conference per NCAA rules -- which is NOT going to happen in the A-10.

The only question is "is a new league as good as the A-10 in basketball?" I hope the answer is no because I'm an A-10 fan. But it's a lot closer than current C-USA.

Those 7: .518 in FB, .577 in MBB since new C-USA alignment.
Other 7: .406 in FB, .456 in MBB since new C-USA alignment.

They'd go from a .516 overall C-USA to a .577 overall new league in hoops (plus what Buffalo or Liberty does, and they are programs pretty close to what those 7 are). Their computer ratings would be higher because there's no longer eight games vs "RPI/NET killer" in the league. That league could get an at-large pretty easily.

But even if it's a one-bid league, you're splitting that NCAA Tournament revenue 9 ways instead of 14 in C-USA; In the A-10, they give 75% of the NCAA money to the team that earned it, and split the 25% of each NCAA unit among the other teams.

So if an 18-team A-10 gets four NCAA units a year, but you don't make it, you're getting .056 NCAA shares a year.
In a one-bid C-USA with an even split, you'd get .071 NCAA shares a year.
In a one-bid New League of 9 teams, even split, you'd get .111 NCAA shares a year.
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Foreverandever Online
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Post: #488
RE: UNSUBSTANTIED CHATTER: Charlotte and ODU to A10/Indy
(02-26-2021 07:56 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  Hi. I'm an A-10 guy and have been monitoring this while awaiting authorization to join the convo.

1. No one is leaving the A-10 for a lesser league.

2. The "rumor" of the A-10 expanding and "adding FBS football" is an overblown way of saying that if the 4 or 5 C-USA teams did leave and join the A-10 and go independent in football because they'd have enough teams to play, those teams, plus UMass and/or Liberty and New Mexico State, could play each other every year under the A-10 name in order to negotiate bowl tie-ins and try to get some CFP table scrap payments, and BUNDLE TV RIGHTS.

Which sounds essentially the same as "the A-10 adding FBS," except the priority level. The A-10 would be a BASKETBALL LEAGUE, and FBS football would be the same as like, volleyball or baseball. Just another sport we play. We wouldn't be trying to become a "Power 6 Conference" -- because no one has the resources to be P5 level in both basketball and football.

3. That being said, a bunch of programs in C-USA are much much better at being good in both football and MBB than others. It's not quite "East vs West" because FAU/FIU aren't good. It's more like 5 East, UAB and La Tech." And the other seven schools are straight up killing C-USA basketball.

4. I've now seen ODU and Charlotte fans say "Oh, going Indy in football and joining the A-10 in hoops would be awesome!" And a Marshall fan visited the A-10 board I post on saying the same thing (telling me about this forum); and now there's a WKU fan saying it as well.

Which brings me to the big point: If FOUR fan bases/schools of the 5 Eastern C-USA teams good at basketball feel that way, your ADs should be talking to MTSU, UAB, and La Tech because

5. You don't need the A-10, just leave C-USA and form your own league.

Old Dominion, Charlotte, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, UAB, La Tech is seven teams.
That's enough that you'd get an automatic NCAA bid after ZERO or ONE YEAR (like the Big East/American split, or the MWC split).

Invite Liberty and Buffalo as full members; and UMass foot football only.

That is a very solid basketball league, because the win percentage of those programs skyrockets leaving the others behind, enabling your second place team to get an at-large bid.


If you're an A10 guy you better hope those schools are not thinking like that. The play you just outlined has a big blind spot.

La Tech is not going to get that invite, bit too much of an outlier. However Liberty would jump all over that as an all sports member, you have no arrived at seven. Just geographically and sports competitive level the obvious move here is to take UMass as all sports, while picking off Dayton, SLU, and VCU as basketball only members. That's 8 football (9 if they make UConn football only in return for basketball scheduling) and 11 Olympics with the only outlier being UMass and the ease of a major airport hub to make the travel convient from UAB, St. Louis, Middle Tenn, and Dayton some of the teams farthest away. That football would be this years sunbelt level most every year with occasional dips and spurts where UAB, Marshall, and Liberty all have good years and all three may be ranked. That basketball would be nipping at the seven conferences that generally produce 98% of the at large berths. VCU, Dayton, W. Kentucky, UAB, SLU, UMass, and Liberty are quite a solid top half. With Marshall, ODU, Middle Tenn, and Charlotte all capable of filling in if those traditionally stronger programs fall off. That's also a three maybe four bid league most years. It means only WCC with BYU, St. Mary's, and Gonzaga and on occasion the MWC will be in position to get at large bids besides the p5, BE, and AAC. The new league would vacuum up any bids those seven drop.

You better hope they go the other way, the A10 has a couple teams leave and pick up two or three eastern CUSA teams who play independent and work it out with Liberty, UConn, UMass, and Army for football scheduling or the A10 is a dead league with four or five anchors and not much potential left.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 01:12 PM by Foreverandever.)
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #489
RE: UNSUBSTANTIED CHATTER: Charlotte and ODU to A10/Indy
One Marshall fan has said that. Marshall will not be going Indy. End of file.
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #490
RE: UNSUBSTANTIED CHATTER: Charlotte and ODU to A10/Indy
Could former D1 conferences be reformed since they are still recognized in NCAA record books as a D1 conference. Yankee Conference might work.

Yankee Conference:
UConn
UMass
Delaware
James Madison
Dayton
Charlotte
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Stony Brook
Buffalo

Maine, New Hampshire, URI, Richmond, Villanova, William & Mary, Fordham, George Mason, VCU, Towson and Albany might upgrade their stadiums or add football to be part of the Yankee Conference. You do get the best from C-USA, A-10 and CAA to form the better football and men's basketball conference.
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mturn017 Offline
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RE: UNSUBSTANTIED CHATTER: Charlotte and ODU to A10/Indy
(Yesterday 01:07 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  
(02-26-2021 08:15 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Just curious: what makes someone “an A-10 guy”? Just a general fan of the league? Got confused because of the ODU fandom.

Went to an A-10 school, found this discussion from a topic on an A-10 board discussing ODU wanting out of C-USA for the A-10. While registering, I saw the C-USA team pulldown menu, so when it asked a favorite team, I just listed ODU.

(Yesterday 10:37 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Also, it would take 8 full member A10 teams playing FBS football for them to sponsor it. Which would likely lead to an old BE type identity crises because you can't relegate FBS football to volleyball status for those that have it and if you have that many that have it then that would be a substantial block of schools. Which is why I doubt that happens. Taking in ODU in Charlotte or any other member that has FBS football could create a flight risk of those schools but there's no internal conflict.

The concept was that ODU was attempting a switch to the A-10 to get into a better basketball league, going independent in football and Charlotte goes with them (brokering the deal as a former A-10 member). Marshall and WKU fans have said
"What about us? We'd want that, too."

If those FOUR joined the A-10, and went Indy for FBS, they can play each other, and UMass, Liberty and New Mexico State every year to fill out a schedule.

Or they could call THAT EXACT THING "Atlantic 10 Football" with 5 full A-10 members and 2 affiliates. That does not meet the requirements for an official FBS conference, it's just "glorified independence." BUT you have a league office making the schedule so you don't have to negotiate 6 games for each season with the others. There's no NY6 access, but (a) that doesn't exist for independents either and (b) that hasn't come up for a C-USA member yet anyway. The A-10 can negotiate bowl tie-ins because they'll have someone who's 4-2 in conference every year. They can TRY to negotiate CFP hush money that C-USA gets when the next CFP deal is up (5 years left).

So if those four are willing to go FBS independent, playing Glorified Indy football in the A-10 is better on the football side of things; and of course, it's a BETTER BASKETBALL LEAGUE than C-USA;

And the Football TV rights can be bundled in with A-10 MBB/WBB rights, and those 4 schools are better off.


Now, if all that is true... you can create the exact same "glorified Indy" scenario in a new league if MTSU, UAB and La Tech decide they'd be better off with the 4 C-USA schools who want out than remaining in C-USA. You'd need an 8th full member to start the clock on becoming an official FBS conference. Liberty would definitely do it and Buffalo might as well (and UMass would love to play football with that league).

You'd get all the benefits I laid out above in the "A10 glorified FBS Indy" concept; only after 8 years, it would become a full FBS conference per NCAA rules -- which is NOT going to happen in the A-10.

The only question is "is a new league as good as the A-10 in basketball?" I hope the answer is no because I'm an A-10 fan. But it's a lot closer than current C-USA.

Those 7: .518 in FB, .577 in MBB since new C-USA alignment.
Other 7: .406 in FB, .456 in MBB since new C-USA alignment.

They'd go from a .516 overall C-USA to a .577 overall new league in hoops (plus what Buffalo or Liberty does, and they are programs pretty close to what those 7 are). Their computer ratings would be higher because there's no longer eight games vs "RPI/NET killer" in the league. That league could get an at-large pretty easily.

But even if it's a one-bid league, you're splitting that NCAA Tournament revenue 9 ways instead of 14 in C-USA; In the A-10, they give 75% of the NCAA money to the team that earned it, and split the 25% of each NCAA unit among the other teams.

So if an 18-team A-10 gets four NCAA units a year, but you don't make it, you're getting .056 NCAA shares a year.
In a one-bid C-USA with an even split, you'd get .071 NCAA shares a year.
In a one-bid New League of 9 teams, even split, you'd get .111 NCAA shares a year.

I posted this on ODUs board in reply to your comment but it seems to be the consensus on this board that the rule change regarding continuity following the MWC/WAC split mean that a conference that splits like that wouldn’t be granted an autobid without a waiver. If CUSA could split it likely happen.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-768543.html
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