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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #41
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(01-30-2021 09:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-30-2021 09:36 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-30-2021 09:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Tone at the top? By top, I presume you mean somewhere above head coach?
Indeed I do.
I guess by withholding resources, they are are giving excuses to those below them.

That's kind of the cycle.

Rice athletics has been a very strange place for the duration of my involvement with the program. I've said it before, but Rice athletics has been the most consistently dysfunctional organization I have ever been around. And I did bankruptcy for several years.

I also did stats for the Oilers for a while. Over a few beers one night, several us who had worked for both Rice and the Oilers started a debate over which was the most dysfunctional organization in all of sports. We were sure it had to be one or the other, just couldn't decide which. And then along came the Texans and said, "Hold my beer."
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2021 08:50 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
01-30-2021 10:15 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #42
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(01-30-2021 10:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I've said it before, but Rice athletics has been the most consistently dysfunctional organization I have ever been around.

Some of the Mexican companies I did business with make Rice look sharp. I was escorted through a bankrupt one by the union. Made sure not to pick up anything.

The worst, though was an Alabama company I did business with. They were broke because one partner handled buying, the other handled sales ... and they didn't talk.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2021 11:03 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
01-30-2021 11:03 PM
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Post: #43
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
ESPN ranks all 130 FBS teams into 10 tiers.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...021-season

Well, I guess Rice at least managed to stay out of the bottom Tier 10 group assuming they are in the “nearly all of the rest of the non-Power 5” group in Tier 9.
01-30-2021 11:37 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #44
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
Rice doesn't need to dominate any conference to be a local hit and have national relevance in football. It needs to win 6 or 7 games and play in a bowl game every season. Every five years it needs to win a conference championship and break into the top 25. The teams in the top 25 get all the attention. Rice doesn't need to be great move out of CUSA. It needs to be consistent. That shouldn't be an impossible task for Rice, given it's resources and given the competition at hand.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2021 01:13 AM by Ourland.)
01-31-2021 01:12 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #45
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(01-30-2021 11:37 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  ESPN ranks all 130 FBS teams into 10 tiers.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...021-season

Well, I guess Rice at least managed to stay out of the bottom Tier 10 group assuming they are in the “nearly all of the rest of the non-Power 5” group in Tier 9.

We are in the Top 10.
01-31-2021 01:23 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #46
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(01-30-2021 11:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-30-2021 10:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I've said it before, but Rice athletics has been the most consistently dysfunctional organization I have ever been around.
Some of the Mexican companies I did business with make Rice look sharp. I was escorted through a bankrupt one by the union. Made sure not to pick up anything.
The worst, though was an Alabama company I did business with. They were broke because one partner handled buying, the other handled sales ... and they didn't talk.

You might be surprised.

Seriously.
01-31-2021 08:49 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #47
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(01-31-2021 01:12 AM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice doesn't need to dominate any conference to be a local hit and have national relevance in football. It needs to win 6 or 7 games and play in a bowl game every season. Every five years it needs to win a conference championship and break into the top 25. The teams in the top 25 get all the attention. Rice doesn't need to be great move out of CUSA. It needs to be consistent. That shouldn't be an impossible task for Rice, given it's resources and given the competition at hand.

If the conference is CUSA, Rice pretty much does need to dominate. TCU dominated the Mountain West and won a Rose Bowl, so they moved up. And it wasn't that long ago that we beat them regularly. But either way, you are absolutely spot on that what is needed is consistency. Yes, Bailiff won 10 games in 2008 and a conference championship in 2013, but otherwise most of his teams were godawful. He certainly came nowhere close to your 6-7 wins every year standard. Catching the occasional lightning strike in a bottle is clearly not good enough in CUSA.

Winning 6-7 wins and a bowl every year, plus a conference championship every 5 years probably works if the conference is the American. That seems to be what SMU is doing, and maybe UH. But considering that it wasn't that long ago that we were ahead of SMU, at least in football, getting there should be doable.

SMU and TCU both say that we can improve. But Rice has to say that to matter. And so far, Rice hasn't.
01-31-2021 08:59 AM
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ESE84 Online
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Post: #48
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(01-30-2021 11:37 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  ESPN ranks all 130 FBS teams into 10 tiers.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...021-season

Well, I guess Rice at least managed to stay out of the bottom Tier 10 group assuming they are in the “nearly all of the rest of the non-Power 5” group in Tier 9.

Rice football needs to be the one that surprises in Tier 9. And in doing so, join the other C-USA consistent winners in Tier 8. The Tier 7 games at Arkansas and hosting Houston are the opportunities to do so.
01-31-2021 09:37 AM
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Post: #49
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(01-31-2021 08:59 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-31-2021 01:12 AM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice doesn't need to dominate any conference to be a local hit and have national relevance in football. It needs to win 6 or 7 games and play in a bowl game every season. Every five years it needs to win a conference championship and break into the top 25. The teams in the top 25 get all the attention. Rice doesn't need to be great move out of CUSA. It needs to be consistent. That shouldn't be an impossible task for Rice, given it's resources and given the competition at hand.

If the conference is CUSA, Rice pretty much does need to dominate. TCU dominated the Mountain West and won a Rose Bowl, so they moved up. And it wasn't that long ago that we beat them regularly. But either way, you are absolutely spot on that what is needed is consistency. Yes, Bailiff won 10 games in 2008 and a conference championship in 2013, but otherwise most of his teams were godawful. He certainly came nowhere close to your 6-7 wins every year standard. Catching the occasional lightning strike in a bottle is clearly not good enough in CUSA.

Winning 6-7 wins and a bowl every year, plus a conference championship every 5 years probably works if the conference is the American. That seems to be what SMU is doing, and maybe UH. But considering that it wasn't that long ago that we were ahead of SMU, at least in football, getting there should be doable.

SMU and TCU both say that we can improve. But Rice has to say that to matter. And so far, Rice hasn't.

Bailiff would still be our coach today if he had kept going to bowl games every season. That's what's expected from the head football coach at Rice. He has to graduate his players, have a winning season, and go to a small bowl game. That's it. That's the minimum. If the football coach can accomplish that, then IMO he has done his job. That kind of winning puts us in the middle of the championship race every season, it gets us into the top 25 every few years, and it keeps the fans and alumni engaged in the program. It can be done, and the good news is that it wouldn't take anywhere near TCU-like support to do it.
02-03-2021 02:26 PM
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Post: #50
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(02-03-2021 02:26 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(01-31-2021 08:59 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-31-2021 01:12 AM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice doesn't need to dominate any conference to be a local hit and have national relevance in football. It needs to win 6 or 7 games and play in a bowl game every season. Every five years it needs to win a conference championship and break into the top 25. The teams in the top 25 get all the attention. Rice doesn't need to be great move out of CUSA. It needs to be consistent. That shouldn't be an impossible task for Rice, given it's resources and given the competition at hand.

If the conference is CUSA, Rice pretty much does need to dominate. TCU dominated the Mountain West and won a Rose Bowl, so they moved up. And it wasn't that long ago that we beat them regularly. But either way, you are absolutely spot on that what is needed is consistency. Yes, Bailiff won 10 games in 2008 and a conference championship in 2013, but otherwise most of his teams were godawful. He certainly came nowhere close to your 6-7 wins every year standard. Catching the occasional lightning strike in a bottle is clearly not good enough in CUSA.

Winning 6-7 wins and a bowl every year, plus a conference championship every 5 years probably works if the conference is the American. That seems to be what SMU is doing, and maybe UH. But considering that it wasn't that long ago that we were ahead of SMU, at least in football, getting there should be doable.

SMU and TCU both say that we can improve. But Rice has to say that to matter. And so far, Rice hasn't.

Bailiff would still be our coach today if he had kept going to bowl games every season. That's what's expected from the head football coach at Rice. He has to graduate his players, have a winning season, and go to a small bowl game. That's it. That's the minimum. If the football coach can accomplish that, then IMO he has done his job. That kind of winning puts us in the middle of the championship race every season, it gets us into the top 25 every few years, and it keeps the fans and alumni engaged in the program. It can be done, and the good news is that it wouldn't take anywhere near TCU-like support to do it.

the way I remember it, just going to bowls was not good enough to quiet the demands that he be fired. The bowls were sneered at as low level and useless.
02-03-2021 04:28 PM
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Post: #51
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
It's never enough. I learned long ago to temper my expectations according to Rice's level of support, and that's enough to buy us 6-7 wins and a bowl game almost every year. It gets us a 10-win season every seven years and an appearance in the top 25. Once every couple years we'll beat one big opponent on national television. It buys us a competitive program and real fans at home games. I'm ready for it to start happening.
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2021 05:28 PM by Ourland.)
02-03-2021 05:14 PM
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Post: #52
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
Our best most recent chance to make an all in push was 2003...when the BOT was literally paying good money for a report they hoped would give them cover to get out of the FCS tier of schools. The only card we've really had to play consistently through that time frame is "we're great at baseball." Now we have not just a bad hand we're not even at the table.

My recommendation has consistently been what I call "let's shake hands and actually try for 10 years." Roughly: the administration agrees to a budget that the AD submits as covering all of the annual operating expenses of a program that is trying to be on par with the best in the nation. Essentially overspending on the experience had by our student athletes and demanding a high level of performance in return. Donors are aware of the push and can contribute likewise. If in 10 years we are still at a point where we have no shot of upward mobility and/or our top-line and alumni/fan support structure haven't significantly improved we call it quits and play ultimate frisbee. At least then we tried instead of this charade of half measure support which drives an elongated and ultimately just as expensive death cycle.
02-03-2021 06:00 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #53
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(02-03-2021 04:28 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(02-03-2021 02:26 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(01-31-2021 08:59 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-31-2021 01:12 AM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice doesn't need to dominate any conference to be a local hit and have national relevance in football. It needs to win 6 or 7 games and play in a bowl game every season. Every five years it needs to win a conference championship and break into the top 25. The teams in the top 25 get all the attention. Rice doesn't need to be great move out of CUSA. It needs to be consistent. That shouldn't be an impossible task for Rice, given it's resources and given the competition at hand.
If the conference is CUSA, Rice pretty much does need to dominate. TCU dominated the Mountain West and won a Rose Bowl, so they moved up. And it wasn't that long ago that we beat them regularly. But either way, you are absolutely spot on that what is needed is consistency. Yes, Bailiff won 10 games in 2008 and a conference championship in 2013, but otherwise most of his teams were godawful. He certainly came nowhere close to your 6-7 wins every year standard. Catching the occasional lightning strike in a bottle is clearly not good enough in CUSA.
Winning 6-7 wins and a bowl every year, plus a conference championship every 5 years probably works if the conference is the American. That seems to be what SMU is doing, and maybe UH. But considering that it wasn't that long ago that we were ahead of SMU, at least in football, getting there should be doable.
SMU and TCU both say that we can improve. But Rice has to say that to matter. And so far, Rice hasn't.
Bailiff would still be our coach today if he had kept going to bowl games every season. That's what's expected from the head football coach at Rice. He has to graduate his players, have a winning season, and go to a small bowl game. That's it. That's the minimum. If the football coach can accomplish that, then IMO he has done his job. That kind of winning puts us in the middle of the championship race every season, it gets us into the top 25 every few years, and it keeps the fans and alumni engaged in the program. It can be done, and the good news is that it wouldn't take anywhere near TCU-like support to do it.
the way I remember it, just going to bowls was not good enough to quiet the demands that he be fired. The bowls were sneered at as low level and useless.

The problem was not the bowls. The problem was the lack of consistency. The years that he didn't go to bowls were pretty awful.

He had 4 bowl teams, 3 won their bowls, 1 conference championship, two teams won 10 games. But he also had teams that won 3, 2, 4, 4, 5, 3, and 1. He ended up 57-80 overall, 40-48 in CUSA. That was nowhere near what Ourland is suggesting, and simply was not good enough.
02-03-2021 11:15 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #54
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(02-03-2021 06:00 PM)mebehutchi Wrote:  Our best most recent chance to make an all in push was 2003...when the BOT was literally paying good money for a report they hoped would give them cover to get out of the FCS tier of schools. The only card we've really had to play consistently through that time frame is "we're great at baseball." Now we have not just a bad hand we're not even at the table.

That report was supposed to figure out a way to drop from D-1 to D-3 but still keep baseball. Baseball was the 400-pound gorilla that nobody was willing to take on. When McKinsey figured out that there was no way to do that, then continued status in D-1 was assured. That's why I say that Wayne Graham is the reason Joe Karlgaard's job exists. Now Baseball is more like a 120-pound weakling.

Quote:My recommendation has consistently been what I call "let's shake hands and actually try for 10 years." Roughly: the administration agrees to a budget that the AD submits as covering all of the annual operating expenses of a program that is trying to be on par with the best in the nation. Essentially overspending on the experience had by our student athletes and demanding a high level of performance in return. Donors are aware of the push and can contribute likewise. If in 10 years we are still at a point where we have no shot of upward mobility and/or our top-line and alumni/fan support structure haven't significantly improved we call it quits and play ultimate frisbee. At least then we tried instead of this charade of half measure support which drives an elongated and ultimately just as expensive death cycle.

I agree 100%, Hutch. But the department has never put forth any proposal like that. As nearly as I can tell, they are afraid that they won't be able to make it work, and it's easier just to rock along where they are. Job security when you don't have to win as long as you have an excuse, and you can stay as long as you don't rock the boat, becomes much more attractive than taking a path that might meet resistance.
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2021 11:25 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
02-03-2021 11:20 PM
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Post: #55
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(02-03-2021 11:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-03-2021 04:28 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(02-03-2021 02:26 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(01-31-2021 08:59 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-31-2021 01:12 AM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice doesn't need to dominate any conference to be a local hit and have national relevance in football. It needs to win 6 or 7 games and play in a bowl game every season. Every five years it needs to win a conference championship and break into the top 25. The teams in the top 25 get all the attention. Rice doesn't need to be great move out of CUSA. It needs to be consistent. That shouldn't be an impossible task for Rice, given it's resources and given the competition at hand.
If the conference is CUSA, Rice pretty much does need to dominate. TCU dominated the Mountain West and won a Rose Bowl, so they moved up. And it wasn't that long ago that we beat them regularly. But either way, you are absolutely spot on that what is needed is consistency. Yes, Bailiff won 10 games in 2008 and a conference championship in 2013, but otherwise most of his teams were godawful. He certainly came nowhere close to your 6-7 wins every year standard. Catching the occasional lightning strike in a bottle is clearly not good enough in CUSA.
Winning 6-7 wins and a bowl every year, plus a conference championship every 5 years probably works if the conference is the American. That seems to be what SMU is doing, and maybe UH. But considering that it wasn't that long ago that we were ahead of SMU, at least in football, getting there should be doable.
SMU and TCU both say that we can improve. But Rice has to say that to matter. And so far, Rice hasn't.
Bailiff would still be our coach today if he had kept going to bowl games every season. That's what's expected from the head football coach at Rice. He has to graduate his players, have a winning season, and go to a small bowl game. That's it. That's the minimum. If the football coach can accomplish that, then IMO he has done his job. That kind of winning puts us in the middle of the championship race every season, it gets us into the top 25 every few years, and it keeps the fans and alumni engaged in the program. It can be done, and the good news is that it wouldn't take anywhere near TCU-like support to do it.
the way I remember it, just going to bowls was not good enough to quiet the demands that he be fired. The bowls were sneered at as low level and useless.

The problem was not the bowls. The problem was the lack of consistency. The years that he didn't go to bowls were pretty awful.

He had 4 bowl teams, 3 won their bowls, 1 conference championship, two teams won 10 games. But he also had teams that won 3, 2, 4, 4, 5, 3, and 1. He ended up 57-80 overall, 40-48 in CUSA. That was nowhere near what Ourland is suggesting, and simply was not good enough.

I agree 100% that lack of consistency was A problem , but not THE problem. What I remember was that mixed in with all the rest of the Fire Bailiff hysteria was a demeaning of the value of going to bowls, unless those bowls were top tier -NY6 - and/or against P5 opponents. Nobody thought going 6-6 or 7-5 every year and playing in the TuttiFrutti Bowl against North Central Outback Normal School was where we wanted to be.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2021 12:53 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
02-04-2021 12:53 AM
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Post: #56
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(02-04-2021 12:53 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(02-03-2021 11:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-03-2021 04:28 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(02-03-2021 02:26 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(01-31-2021 08:59 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  If the conference is CUSA, Rice pretty much does need to dominate. TCU dominated the Mountain West and won a Rose Bowl, so they moved up. And it wasn't that long ago that we beat them regularly. But either way, you are absolutely spot on that what is needed is consistency. Yes, Bailiff won 10 games in 2008 and a conference championship in 2013, but otherwise most of his teams were godawful. He certainly came nowhere close to your 6-7 wins every year standard. Catching the occasional lightning strike in a bottle is clearly not good enough in CUSA.
Winning 6-7 wins and a bowl every year, plus a conference championship every 5 years probably works if the conference is the American. That seems to be what SMU is doing, and maybe UH. But considering that it wasn't that long ago that we were ahead of SMU, at least in football, getting there should be doable.
SMU and TCU both say that we can improve. But Rice has to say that to matter. And so far, Rice hasn't.
Bailiff would still be our coach today if he had kept going to bowl games every season. That's what's expected from the head football coach at Rice. He has to graduate his players, have a winning season, and go to a small bowl game. That's it. That's the minimum. If the football coach can accomplish that, then IMO he has done his job. That kind of winning puts us in the middle of the championship race every season, it gets us into the top 25 every few years, and it keeps the fans and alumni engaged in the program. It can be done, and the good news is that it wouldn't take anywhere near TCU-like support to do it.
the way I remember it, just going to bowls was not good enough to quiet the demands that he be fired. The bowls were sneered at as low level and useless.

The problem was not the bowls. The problem was the lack of consistency. The years that he didn't go to bowls were pretty awful.

He had 4 bowl teams, 3 won their bowls, 1 conference championship, two teams won 10 games. But he also had teams that won 3, 2, 4, 4, 5, 3, and 1. He ended up 57-80 overall, 40-48 in CUSA. That was nowhere near what Ourland is suggesting, and simply was not good enough.

I agree 100% that lack of consistency was A problem , but not THE problem. What I remember was that mixed in with all the rest of the Fire Bailiff hysteria was a demeaning of the value of going to bowls, unless those bowls were top tier -NY6 - and/or against P5 opponents. Nobody thought going 6-6 or 7-5 every year and playing in the TuttiFrutti Bowl against North Central Outback Normal School was where we wanted to be.

Revisionist history. It wasn't so much the bowls that we were demeaning, but rather the fact that those 6+ wins we accumulated were ALL against teams ranked in the bottom quartile of the FBS (i.e., outside the Top 100)....and that we were almost always blown off the field against any team ranked inside the Top 75.
02-04-2021 08:31 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #57
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(02-04-2021 12:53 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(02-03-2021 11:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The problem was not the bowls. The problem was the lack of consistency. The years that he didn't go to bowls were pretty awful.
He had 4 bowl teams, 3 won their bowls, 1 conference championship, two teams won 10 games. But he also had teams that won 3, 2, 4, 4, 5, 3, and 1. He ended up 57-80 overall, 40-48 in CUSA. That was nowhere near what Ourland is suggesting, and simply was not good enough.
I agree 100% that lack of consistency was A problem , but not THE problem. What I remember was that mixed in with all the rest of the Fire Bailiff hysteria was a demeaning of the value of going to bowls, unless those bowls were top tier -NY6 - and/or against P5 opponents. Nobody thought going 6-6 or 7-5 every year and playing in the TuttiFrutti Bowl against North Central Outback Normal School was where we wanted to be.

If he had been 6-6 or 7-5 and playing in the TuttiFruiti Bowl in those years when he won 3, 2, 4, 4, 5, 3, and 1, he would still be the head football coach at Rice University, and we would still be driven nuts by the sloppy and undisciplined play, but overall we'd be okay with him because of the 10-win seasons mixed in. When lower tier bowls are your bad years, and you get to the occasional bigger bowl, that's okay. When lower tier bowls are your good years, that's not okay.
02-04-2021 10:31 AM
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Post: #58
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
Chronicle has stories this morning on signing day for A&M, UT, UH, HBU, PVAM, TSU.

Notice anybody missing? The Chronicle didn’t.
02-04-2021 11:04 AM
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Post: #59
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(02-04-2021 08:31 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(02-04-2021 12:53 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(02-03-2021 11:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-03-2021 04:28 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(02-03-2021 02:26 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Bailiff would still be our coach today if he had kept going to bowl games every season. That's what's expected from the head football coach at Rice. He has to graduate his players, have a winning season, and go to a small bowl game. That's it. That's the minimum. If the football coach can accomplish that, then IMO he has done his job. That kind of winning puts us in the middle of the championship race every season, it gets us into the top 25 every few years, and it keeps the fans and alumni engaged in the program. It can be done, and the good news is that it wouldn't take anywhere near TCU-like support to do it.
the way I remember it, just going to bowls was not good enough to quiet the demands that he be fired. The bowls were sneered at as low level and useless.

The problem was not the bowls. The problem was the lack of consistency. The years that he didn't go to bowls were pretty awful.

He had 4 bowl teams, 3 won their bowls, 1 conference championship, two teams won 10 games. But he also had teams that won 3, 2, 4, 4, 5, 3, and 1. He ended up 57-80 overall, 40-48 in CUSA. That was nowhere near what Ourland is suggesting, and simply was not good enough.

I agree 100% that lack of consistency was A problem , but not THE problem. What I remember was that mixed in with all the rest of the Fire Bailiff hysteria was a demeaning of the value of going to bowls, unless those bowls were top tier -NY6 - and/or against P5 opponents. Nobody thought going 6-6 or 7-5 every year and playing in the TuttiFrutti Bowl against North Central Outback Normal School was where we wanted to be.

Revisionist history. It wasn't so much the bowls that we were demeaning, but rather the fact that those 6+ wins we accumulated were ALL against teams ranked in the bottom quartile of the FBS (i.e., outside the Top 100)....and that we were almost always blown off the field against any team ranked inside the Top 75.

We'd gladly take 6 wins these days and we play in a conference with no top 75 programs. I look forward to Bloomgren getting anywhere near 6-6 mediocre bowl territory soon. Not saying keeping Bailiff was warranted, but 6-6 wasn't as easy as it seemed apparently. But had to aim higher than that, I get the move and still have hope for the current staff to break through soon despite its limitations on offense.

There are good recent examples of having reasonable expectations for successors of coaches who had some success (Bailiff) and massive success (Graham) that haven't played out as we hoped. The AD made the moves, neither has worked thus far, and forcing Wayne out was a low point imo.
02-04-2021 11:27 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #60
RE: 2021 football schedule unveiled
(02-04-2021 10:31 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-04-2021 12:53 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(02-03-2021 11:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The problem was not the bowls. The problem was the lack of consistency. The years that he didn't go to bowls were pretty awful.
He had 4 bowl teams, 3 won their bowls, 1 conference championship, two teams won 10 games. But he also had teams that won 3, 2, 4, 4, 5, 3, and 1. He ended up 57-80 overall, 40-48 in CUSA. That was nowhere near what Ourland is suggesting, and simply was not good enough.
I agree 100% that lack of consistency was A problem , but not THE problem. What I remember was that mixed in with all the rest of the Fire Bailiff hysteria was a demeaning of the value of going to bowls, unless those bowls were top tier -NY6 - and/or against P5 opponents. Nobody thought going 6-6 or 7-5 every year and playing in the TuttiFrutti Bowl against North Central Outback Normal School was where we wanted to be.

If he had been 6-6 or 7-5 and playing in the TuttiFruiti Bowl in those years when he won 3, 2, 4, 4, 5, 3, and 1, he would still be the head football coach at Rice University, and we would still be driven nuts by the sloppy and undisciplined play, but overall we'd be okay with him because of the 10-win seasons mixed in. When lower tier bowls are your bad years, and you get to the occasional bigger bowl, that's okay. When lower tier bowls are your good years, that's not okay.

Agree, especially with the final sentence, which seems to be the goal for some. But some here thought making minor bowls was not a good thing, either as floor or ceiling.

I personally considered it a good thing if it was a step up on the way to a higher level, not as the destination.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2021 12:18 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
02-04-2021 11:29 AM
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