(01-26-2021 05:05 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-26-2021 12:54 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  I'm very curious about the ASUNs FBS plan. I dont think itll happen but at least the WAC has that loophole. As far as I know the ASUN doesnt.

There is no FBS plan for the ASUN. That was only a moment of enthusiasm by the not-so-quiet not-too-filtered Dr. Brad. Not even Central Arkansas has any real plans. But I can forgive him, as NMSU's Moccia made similar comments about WAC football about a year ago, only to walk it back later to a more realistic "hopefully some of those schools will want to play FBS in the future." Same situation with the ASUN. Dr. Teague has walked those comments back.

I think we've seen a sea change though. The value of the FBS ASUN dream may be negligible, but its market value is clearly greater than the value of OVC or Big South prestige over the ASUN. And the FBS WAC dream is more valuable than the prestige of the Southland vs the post-FBS WAC.

I also think the movement happening in groups dilutes the "prestige hit." Lamar to an FCS WAC a year or two ago would have put them a step behind SFSU and SFA, their most relevant competition (same geography, same competitive level, same profile). But moving together, everybody can pretend/believe that their upgrading. They're certainly not downgrading, because Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word the Louisiana schools are now the prison-yard-beating-recipients whom everyone can feel superior to.

I think we are about to start seeing some real separation within FCS between schools/conferences that care about fielding strong FCS football programs and those who are just going through the motions:

Serious about FCS:
Big Sky
WAC
ASUN
MVFC
CAA
SoCon (?)

Not Serious:
Ivy
Patriot
MEAC
SWAC
NEC
Pioneer
OVC
Big South
Southland

Many Ivy League programs have fantastic players. Not sure you can easily lump them into the second grouping.

Well, this may push a different angle in conferences “releasing” themselves from football sponsorship if it means keeping the school for everything else but the sport. Demanding loyalty for all when football drives so many programs, and then not see how the landscape is changing in the sport and recognizing the shifts and gaps between intraconference programs is going to cause a lot of hurt.

Like, does OVC really want to lose EKU over its FBS aspirations to ASUN when OVC may be the better fit for other programs? Loosen the grip, OVC...

This is kinda why I don’t see this as a permanent separation if it does happen. I don’t think there’s resentment at EKU to all of OVC...just how OVC football itself can’t help them. The others, I would hope, would fall in line to keep desired members...

(01-27-2021 01:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think we are about to start seeing some real separation within FCS between schools/conferences that care about fielding strong FCS football programs and those who are just going through the motions:

Serious about FCS:
Big Sky
WAC
ASUN
MVFC
CAA
SoCon (?)

Not Serious:
Ivy
Patriot
MEAC
SWAC
NEC
Pioneer
OVC
Big South
Southland

SoCon and Big South are absolutely serious about football. Not listing either in that conversation leads me to believe you don't watch a lot of FCS football. NEC also fought tooth and nail to get an NCAA autobid for the FCS tourney. I'd say they're serious about it. OVC has had members in the championship game within the last 5 years, too.

(01-27-2021 01:55 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Many Ivy League programs have fantastic players. Not sure you can easily lump them into the second grouping.

With their own willful separation from the rest of the FCS ranks they join the SWAC and MEAC in the second group IMO.

(01-27-2021 02:15 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(01-27-2021 01:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think we are about to start seeing some real separation within FCS between schools/conferences that care about fielding strong FCS football programs and those who are just going through the motions:

Serious about FCS:
Big Sky
WAC
ASUN
MVFC
CAA
SoCon (?)

Not Serious:
Ivy
Patriot
MEAC
SWAC
NEC
Pioneer
OVC
Big South
Southland

SoCon and Big South are absolutely serious about football. Not listing either in that conversation leads me to believe you don't watch a lot of FCS football. NEC also fought tooth and nail to get an NCAA autobid for the FCS tourney. I'd say they're serious about it. OVC has had members in the championship game within the last 5 years, too.

The SoCon is not the conference it was a decade ago when they still had App St and Georgia Southern—they aren’t exactly lighting things up in FCS with their 2 star programs gone. I don’t think the same level of commitment is still there.

The Big South is down to what NC A&T, Hampton, Campbell, G-W, Charleston Southern, Monmouth, and Robert Morris? There’s a giant drop off after NC A&T—the rest are pretty much trash programs.

You seriously think the NEC is investing in football?! They are low budget programs.

(01-27-2021 01:55 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Many Ivy League programs have fantastic players. Not sure you can easily lump them into the second grouping.

The Ivies are sort of in a category of their own. You can't consider them to be "not serious" about football given their history, facilities, player talent and quality of play. Moreover the fact that they don't award athletic scholarships isn't indicative that they aren't serious, since they all have needs-based financial aid programs that ensure pretty much anyone who can get into one of those schools is going to receive as much money as they need to cover the cost of attendance. That means players who come from families with limited financial resources get close to a free ride.

On the other hand it's obvious based on their decision not to participate in the FCS playoffs that the Ivies aren't serious about winning an FCS national title. What matters to them is winning the Ivy League and they are darn serious about that.

The Ivy isn’t serious about the FCS playoffs, but they do/did care about showing up on FBS schedules. But, to a point, and not enough as the Patriot who satisfied the requirements to “count” for a contest to D1A teams.

Same could be said about playing more games in general, but, again, to a point.

Since they can put pros into the leagues, there’s something competitive going on at some of the schools. And that they actually sponsored a conference tournament, even a small one for hoops, suggests they aren’t completely out on a separate orbit. But, they do it their way.

It varies by school and program, though. You do have your Penn’s and Harvard’s of football and basketball, but you also have your Columbia’s and Brown’s, too. Some represent their sport well. Others are annual finds in the metric and standings basements.

(01-27-2021 05:56 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-27-2021 01:55 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Many Ivy League programs have fantastic players. Not sure you can easily lump them into the second grouping.

The Ivies are sort of in a category of their own. You can't consider them to be "not serious" about football given their history, facilities, player talent and quality of play. Moreover the fact that they don't award athletic scholarships isn't indicative that they aren't serious, since they all have needs-based financial aid programs that ensure pretty much anyone who can get into one of those schools is going to receive as much money as they need to cover the cost of attendance. That means players who come from families with limited financial resources get close to a free ride.

On the other hand it's obvious based on their decision not to participate in the FCS playoffs that the Ivies aren't serious about winning an FCS national title. What matters to them is winning the Ivy League and they are darn serious about that.

The Ivy exists in their own little bubble. They don’t care about winning national titles—they care about their league title. Their scheduling and recruiting philosophies reflect that. They go after the kids who have the grades and means to attend and they schedule other academic minded schools as well as schools in the Northeast that they think they have a shot at beating.

I think it has to do with money and getting their name mentioned for having a star player signed to a product. You attract more attention at the FBS level than you do at the FCS level. D2, D3 and NAIA schools will move to get their names in the spotlight. Combined with them with not playing football in the fall, thr corona and missing out in bodybag games hurt the schoools. All schools from FBS all the way down to NJCAA got hit hard with the loss of money.

(01-27-2021 05:56 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-27-2021 01:55 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Many Ivy League programs have fantastic players. Not sure you can easily lump them into the second grouping.

The Ivies are sort of in a category of their own. You can't consider them to be "not serious" about football given their history, facilities, player talent and quality of play. Moreover the fact that they don't award athletic scholarships isn't indicative that they aren't serious, since they all have needs-based financial aid programs that ensure pretty much anyone who can get into one of those schools is going to receive as much money as they need to cover the cost of attendance. That means players who come from families with limited financial resources get close to a free ride.

On the other hand it's obvious based on their decision not to participate in the FCS playoffs that the Ivies aren't serious about winning an FCS national title. What matters to them is winning the Ivy League and they are darn serious about that.

I have a friend that played cornerback at Yale and they really do take winning the Ivy League title seriously. The game between Harvard and Yale is something special as well. The alumni at both schools take this game very seriously. In 2019, Yale played Harvard at home in front of 44,989 fans, in a game that was televised on ESPNU. Yale won in double overtime, 50-43. For the kids in that game, that had to be a lot more enjoyable than any FCS playoff game.