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official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
It's an internal doc, that was temporarily public. I found it with Google search -"mad skills"- as I was checking a rumor, looking for source and tripped over this. Like, wow!

I think this puts some harder shape on things. Key takeaways:

The 6th school is not clear, or not ready to join. Could well be an associate (i.e., Monmouth) to get things started. The strategy is probably to get those that want to join into the ASUN and then use it as leverage to get additional schools.

There is no FBS in this, Dr. Brad's runaway mouth aside.

Rumors of tension between the football first schools who played in the fall (APSU, JSU, EKU) and the Tennessee schools and basketball schools seem to be true. That their schedules included intersections with UNA and UCA (twice for EKU) no doubt accelerated things.

I think focus will shift to Austin Peay.

I don't think anyone in the SoCon will leave. That is just a way more successful and prestigious group
01-25-2021 03:09 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #42
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
I'll throw my guess out.

How about Missouri State?

MVC has 11 members...little big clunky for a football conference.

The Central Arkansas move would make more sense if you're getting a regional team like MSU to join up.

Missouri State has had rumblings of going FBS before.

It's also a decent sized public and that's what the ASUN needs.
01-25-2021 03:56 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #43
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
Missouri State will not leave the MVC for an inferior basketball conference.
01-25-2021 04:06 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #44
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
(01-25-2021 03:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'll throw my guess out.

How about Missouri State?

MVC has 11 members...little big clunky for a football conference.

The Central Arkansas move would make more sense if you're getting a regional team like MSU to join up.

Missouri State has had rumblings of going FBS before.

It's also a decent sized public and that's what the ASUN needs.

11 members may make the MVC "clunky", but they are clearly the strongest FCS conference. It would make more sense for the entire MVC to try to move up to FBS together.
01-25-2021 04:12 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #45
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
What about Youngstown St as a football only? They are off an an island alone in the MVFC. They’d be getting out from under the Dakota schools’ dominance and visiting states that are better recruiting grounds than what the MVFC has.
01-25-2021 04:15 PM
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TOPSTRAIGHT Offline
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Post: #46
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
It bears repeating that EKU is a charter member of the OVC (1948). A colossal decision for their alumni and fan base.
01-25-2021 04:20 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #47
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
(01-25-2021 04:12 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 03:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I'll throw my guess out.

How about Missouri State?

MVC has 11 members...little big clunky for a football conference.

The Central Arkansas move would make more sense if you're getting a regional team like MSU to join up.

Missouri State has had rumblings of going FBS before.

It's also a decent sized public and that's what the ASUN needs.

11 members may make the MVC "clunky", but they are clearly the strongest FCS conference. It would make more sense for the entire MVC to try to move up to FBS together.

Except they don't appear to be doing that so it's a moot point.

If the ASUN has any plan in place to pursue FBS then any school with genuine FBS aspirations becomes a candidate.

Whether it's the WAC or the ASUN, we've already seen plenty of moves that don't really make sense...except when you consider that FBS might be the hook.
01-25-2021 04:21 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
Why would a northern Ohio school leave a football conference made with five Illinois, Indiana and Missouri schools, for one with schools in Arkansas, Tennessee and Alabama? They are not an associate of the MVFC but a full member. Not happening.

Either the ASUN works a deal with the Big South to "borrow" an associate for a couple years while they recruit a 6th school, or these schools will play in the Big South for a year or two, per the ASUN and Big South football agreement. Scheduling is likely the same, as the two conferences need each other to get to 8 games. The 5 ASUN schools will insist on playing each other, but that is only 4 games. And the same is true of the 5 Big South full members. Even when the ASUN gets it's 6th school they will only be able to schedule 5 games, so will need the Big South to help complete the schedule.

Any anyway, for FCS 11 works fine (as do other odd numbers 9 or even 7), as you play only 8 games anyway.[1] There is no CCG and every school wants a bye week somewhere in their conference run of games anyway; if for no other reason than to be available to schedule an SEC or ACC late season revenue game.

The trend in FCS football conferences seems to be similar to that in sports like Lacrosse and men's soccer, to have just the minimum required for an AQ to get the highest odds for each school to get into the NCAA playoffs. Out of this movement the Big Sky shrinks from 13 to 12 to soon 11; the SLC from 13 to 8; while the WAC forms at 7 with a goal of 8; the ASUN likely forms at 6 with an eventual goal of 8; and the Big South will shrink down to 6 or 7 but may add others. It does seem probable that the Summit will want to form football at some point when they can find a 6th, which will also shrink the MVFC down. This does seem to me to be the direction of FCS.


Notes:
[1] The SWAC plays 9 games, as they don't participate in the playoff, instead will have a CCG then the celebration bowl
01-25-2021 04:52 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #49
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
Stu seriously, get out your phone and type in Youngstown St and some of the MVFC football schools into a directions app. The 4 Dakota schools, UNI, and Missouri St aren’t exactly close trips from Youngstown.

The 3 Illinois schools are all 9+ hr trips. don’t try and spin it like the MVFC is great travel for the Penguins.

The ASUN is about the same travel but they’d be competing with 5 schools for an autobid not 10. Seems like it’s at least worth a look to me.
01-25-2021 05:32 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #50
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
(01-25-2021 05:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Stu seriously, get out your phone and type in Youngstown St and some of the MVFC football schools into a directions app. The 4 Dakota schools, UNI, and Missouri St aren’t exactly close trips from Youngstown.

The 3 Illinois schools are all 9+ hr trips. don’t try and spin it like the MVFC is great travel for the Penguins.

The ASUN is about the same travel but they’d be competing with 5 schools for an autobid not 10. Seems like it’s at least worth a look to me.

ASun would be better recruiting than MVC, a side bonus for YSU.
01-25-2021 05:35 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
(01-25-2021 05:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Stu seriously, get out your phone and type in Youngstown St and some of the MVFC football schools into a directions app. The 4 Dakota schools, UNI, and Missouri St aren’t exactly close trips from Youngstown.

The 3 Illinois schools are all 9+ hr trips. don’t try and spin it like the MVFC is great travel for the Penguins.

The ASUN is about the same travel but they’d be competing with 5 schools for an autobid not 10. Seems like it’s at least worth a look to me.

Full member, not associate.

Also Midwest culture, not Mid south culture. Seems silly, but important. Moves being made are about philosophy and culture not money.
01-25-2021 05:39 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #52
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
(01-25-2021 05:39 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 05:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Stu seriously, get out your phone and type in Youngstown St and some of the MVFC football schools into a directions app. The 4 Dakota schools, UNI, and Missouri St aren’t exactly close trips from Youngstown.

The 3 Illinois schools are all 9+ hr trips. don’t try and spin it like the MVFC is great travel for the Penguins.

The ASUN is about the same travel but they’d be competing with 5 schools for an autobid not 10. Seems like it’s at least worth a look to me.

Full member, not associate.

Also Midwest culture, not Mid south culture. Seems silly, but important. Moves being made are about philosophy and culture not money.

Youngstown St would leave its other sports in the Horizon—this would be a football only move
01-25-2021 05:50 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #53
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
If I were a public school in the Southern Conference? Could VMI, The Citadel and Wofford afford to be in D1 anymore? Could Samford and Furman afford football anymore? That would leave you with Chattanooga, E. Tenn. State, Mercer and Western Carolina to flee to the ASUN.
01-25-2021 05:54 PM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #54
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
(01-25-2021 05:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 05:39 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 05:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Stu seriously, get out your phone and type in Youngstown St and some of the MVFC football schools into a directions app. The 4 Dakota schools, UNI, and Missouri St aren’t exactly close trips from Youngstown.

The 3 Illinois schools are all 9+ hr trips. don’t try and spin it like the MVFC is great travel for the Penguins.

The ASUN is about the same travel but they’d be competing with 5 schools for an autobid not 10. Seems like it’s at least worth a look to me.

Full member, not associate.

Also Midwest culture, not Mid south culture. Seems silly, but important. Moves being made are about philosophy and culture not money.

Youngstown St would leave its other sports in the Horizon—this would be a football only move
Can't do that. MVFC doesn't offer OLY. ASUN does. YSU couldn't be in ASUN for FB and Oly on Horizon since ASUN offers all sports.
01-25-2021 05:57 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #55
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
(01-25-2021 05:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If I were a public school in the Southern Conference? Could VMI, The Citadel and Wofford afford to be in D1 anymore? Could Samford and Furman afford football anymore? That would leave you with Chattanooga, E. Tenn. State, Mercer and Western Carolina to flee to the ASUN.

The example of Chicago State should teach us that nobody is moving down, no matter how much sense it might make, no matter how much money is to be saved.
01-25-2021 06:02 PM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
(01-25-2021 05:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If I were a public school in the Southern Conference? Could VMI, The Citadel and Wofford afford to be in D1 anymore? Could Samford and Furman afford football anymore? That would leave you with Chattanooga, E. Tenn. State, Mercer and Western Carolina to flee to the ASUN.
This from the man that wants NAIA schools to be D1. What a troll. Hasn't Wofford been in the NCAAM top 25 in recent seasons. Furman too? Furman and Wofford are almost always in the FCS playoffs.


In fact the public schools are worse at sports than the privates.
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2021 06:06 PM by Yosef Himself.)
01-25-2021 06:06 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #57
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
(01-25-2021 06:06 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 05:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If I were a public school in the Southern Conference? Could VMI, The Citadel and Wofford afford to be in D1 anymore? Could Samford and Furman afford football anymore? That would leave you with Chattanooga, E. Tenn. State, Mercer and Western Carolina to flee to the ASUN.
This from the man that wants NAIA schools to be D1. What a troll. Hasn't Wofford been in the NCAAM top 25 in recent seasons. Furman too? Furman and Wofford are almost always in the FCS playoffs.


In fact the public schools are worse at sports than the privates.


The private schools like Wofford, lost enrollment. The pandemic caused the back slide of how many students are enrolled.
01-25-2021 06:29 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #58
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
(01-25-2021 06:06 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 05:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If I were a public school in the Southern Conference? Could VMI, The Citadel and Wofford afford to be in D1 anymore? Could Samford and Furman afford football anymore? That would leave you with Chattanooga, E. Tenn. State, Mercer and Western Carolina to flee to the ASUN.
This from the man that wants NAIA schools to be D1. What a troll. Hasn't Wofford been in the NCAAM top 25 in recent seasons. Furman too? Furman and Wofford are almost always in the FCS playoffs.


In fact the public schools are worse at sports than the privates.
Furman - 700M endowment
VMI - 500M
Citadel - 325M
UNCG - $300M
Samford - 300M
Chattanooga - 250M
Wofford - 225M
ETSU - 125M
WCU - 90M
01-25-2021 06:32 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #59
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
(01-25-2021 06:32 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 06:06 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 05:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If I were a public school in the Southern Conference? Could VMI, The Citadel and Wofford afford to be in D1 anymore? Could Samford and Furman afford football anymore? That would leave you with Chattanooga, E. Tenn. State, Mercer and Western Carolina to flee to the ASUN.
This from the man that wants NAIA schools to be D1. What a troll. Hasn't Wofford been in the NCAAM top 25 in recent seasons. Furman too? Furman and Wofford are almost always in the FCS playoffs.


In fact the public schools are worse at sports than the privates.
Furman - 700M endowment
VMI - 500M
Citadel - 325M
UNCG - $300M
Samford - 300M
Chattanooga - 250M
Wofford - 225M
ETSU - 125M
WCU - 90M

The schools can't touch the endowments for sports. They have to fund raised.
01-25-2021 06:34 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #60
RE: official: EKU, JSU, UCA to ASUN July 1, 2021
(01-25-2021 06:34 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 06:32 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 06:06 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(01-25-2021 05:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If I were a public school in the Southern Conference? Could VMI, The Citadel and Wofford afford to be in D1 anymore? Could Samford and Furman afford football anymore? That would leave you with Chattanooga, E. Tenn. State, Mercer and Western Carolina to flee to the ASUN.
This from the man that wants NAIA schools to be D1. What a troll. Hasn't Wofford been in the NCAAM top 25 in recent seasons. Furman too? Furman and Wofford are almost always in the FCS playoffs.


In fact the public schools are worse at sports than the privates.
Furman - 700M endowment
VMI - 500M
Citadel - 325M
UNCG - $300M
Samford - 300M
Chattanooga - 250M
Wofford - 225M
ETSU - 125M
WCU - 90M

The schools can't touch the endowments for sports. They have to fund raised.

you don't know that. People donate and restrict to athletics. Even NAU has millions in it's endowment fund restricted to athletic scholarships.

And if a person qualifies for an academic scholarship, if they are a partial, that can fill the gap on that.

But more than that, what it shows that a school like Furman has wealthy alums who can be tapped for athletics funds if needed. Furman isn't hurting for money. Nor are the students that go there for the most part.

The Citadel has major influence in South Carolina - they aren't going anywhere. Same with VMI, Samford, etc.
01-25-2021 06:40 PM
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