(01-25-2021 12:32 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:46 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 03:04 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I think the PAC 12 just needs to stay the course. Just a 6-7 years ago we all were busting on the ACC and to a lesser extent B10. Things go in cycles. USC has the resources to be a national player in football again and the same could be said of UCLA in basketball. Oregon is fairly capable of running the table in football as well. The PAC has its owm region locked up. I think what hurts the PAC the most is timezones.

I agree, but a lot will depend on the next media deal. If they get something similar to what they are already receiving, then I can see a school or two test the waters of going elsewhere.

One thing I could see is Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, OSU, USC, Oregon and Clemson doing is joining the ranks of Notre Dame as Independents. In terms of branding, each of these schools have outgrown the need of a conference.

Top programs like predictable scheduling because it gives them predictable outcomes. Alabama doesn't have the same value on its own. It needs Auburn, L.S.U., Tennessee, and Texas A&M on an annual schedule to provide those other content games that drive their value.

The SEC and Big 10 are worth what they are worth precisely because they have enough brands playing other brands to generate the revenue.

Even Notre Dame holds onto inde3pendence for the purpose of maintaining the scheduling spread they want.

Would Oklahoma and Texas look like potential annual possibilities for the playoffs in the Big 10 or SEC? The pull that has kept them in the Big 12 is predictable outcomes from predictable scheduling.

What will actually happen is that increase the popularity of the game at a time when that is beginning to fail the networks will have to coerce through revenue the collecting of the schools into 4 main regional groups to eliminate the factor that fans hate the most, the committee selection with poll influence. People want to see an on field champion so the conference structures will have to be used to produce on field champions.

Telemarketers are the ones who like committees and polls because they can be jobbed to to give them predictable markets for the big final games every year. If there is a move to this kind of hands off, interference free, let it be decided on the field mentality fans will buy back in, especially if they find ways to include more schools to hold more interest while using a hands off selection process, meaning a natural one decided by the actual playing of the games.

Only Notre Dame will be impacted drastically by this. Texas and Oklahoma can be accommodated by creating a more regional division for them in either the PAC, SEC, or Big 10. With some shuffling around the edges of each surviving conference a little more equity can be found.

If they ever allow the conferences that comprise such a set up to bargain collectively then competitive advantages can be leveled a bit more. The more schools that legitimately have a shot at the start of a year the more people will be interested. And if the theoretical possibility is there for any school the more their fans interest will be tweaked as well. Right now each conference has too many schools whose fan bases simply realize their schools chances are virtually nil. They either don't have the revenue or they don't have the market draw to be network darlings.

If it ever moves to just the top teams breaking away the game is over for all of them. No national broad based appeal to a season means fewer viewers, and fewer national games of interest and records for the top teams that the fan bases don't like. Bye bye football.

(01-25-2021 12:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 12:32 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:46 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 03:04 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I think the PAC 12 just needs to stay the course. Just a 6-7 years ago we all were busting on the ACC and to a lesser extent B10. Things go in cycles. USC has the resources to be a national player in football again and the same could be said of UCLA in basketball. Oregon is fairly capable of running the table in football as well. The PAC has its owm region locked up. I think what hurts the PAC the most is timezones.

I agree, but a lot will depend on the next media deal. If they get something similar to what they are already receiving, then I can see a school or two test the waters of going elsewhere.

One thing I could see is Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, OSU, USC, Oregon and Clemson doing is joining the ranks of Notre Dame as Independents. In terms of branding, each of these schools have outgrown the need of a conference.

Top programs like predictable scheduling because it gives them predictable outcomes. Alabama doesn't have the same value on its own. It needs Auburn, L.S.U., Tennessee, and Texas A&M on an annual schedule to provide those other content games that drive their value.

The SEC and Big 10 are worth what they are worth precisely because they have enough brands playing other brands to generate the revenue.

Even Notre Dame holds onto inde3pendence for the purpose of maintaining the scheduling spread they want.

Would Oklahoma and Texas look like potential annual possibilities for the playoffs in the Big 10 or SEC? The pull that has kept them in the Big 12 is predictable outcomes from predictable scheduling.

What will actually happen is that increase the popularity of the game at a time when that is beginning to fail the networks will have to coerce through revenue the collecting of the schools into 4 main regional groups to eliminate the factor that fans hate the most, the committee selection with poll influence. People want to see an on field champion so the conference structures will have to be used to produce on field champions.

Telemarketers are the ones who like committees and polls because they can be jobbed to to give them predictable markets for the big final games every year. If there is a move to this kind of hands off, interference free, let it be decided on the field mentality fans will buy back in, especially if they find ways to include more schools to hold more interest while using a hands off selection process, meaning a natural one decided by the actual playing of the games.

Only Notre Dame will be impacted drastically by this. Texas and Oklahoma can be accommodated by creating a more regional division for them in either the PAC, SEC, or Big 10. With some shuffling around the edges of each surviving conference a little more equity can be found.

If they ever allow the conferences that comprise such a set up to bargain collectively then competitive advantages can be leveled a bit more. The more schools that legitimately have a shot at the start of a year the more people will be interested. And if the theoretical possibility is there for any school the more their fans interest will be tweaked as well. Right now each conference has too many schools whose fan bases simply realize their schools chances are virtually nil. They either don't have the revenue or they don't have the market draw to be network darlings.

If it ever moves to just the top teams breaking away the game is over for all of them. No national broad based appeal to a season means fewer viewers, and fewer national games of interest and records for the top teams that the fan bases don't like. Bye bye football.

And these scenarios of a 48 school P2 accomplishes the same demise for football.

(01-25-2021 01:08 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 12:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 12:32 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:46 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 03:04 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I think the PAC 12 just needs to stay the course. Just a 6-7 years ago we all were busting on the ACC and to a lesser extent B10. Things go in cycles. USC has the resources to be a national player in football again and the same could be said of UCLA in basketball. Oregon is fairly capable of running the table in football as well. The PAC has its owm region locked up. I think what hurts the PAC the most is timezones.

I agree, but a lot will depend on the next media deal. If they get something similar to what they are already receiving, then I can see a school or two test the waters of going elsewhere.

One thing I could see is Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, OSU, USC, Oregon and Clemson doing is joining the ranks of Notre Dame as Independents. In terms of branding, each of these schools have outgrown the need of a conference.

Top programs like predictable scheduling because it gives them predictable outcomes. Alabama doesn't have the same value on its own. It needs Auburn, L.S.U., Tennessee, and Texas A&M on an annual schedule to provide those other content games that drive their value.

The SEC and Big 10 are worth what they are worth precisely because they have enough brands playing other brands to generate the revenue.

Even Notre Dame holds onto inde3pendence for the purpose of maintaining the scheduling spread they want.

Would Oklahoma and Texas look like potential annual possibilities for the playoffs in the Big 10 or SEC? The pull that has kept them in the Big 12 is predictable outcomes from predictable scheduling.

What will actually happen is that increase the popularity of the game at a time when that is beginning to fail the networks will have to coerce through revenue the collecting of the schools into 4 main regional groups to eliminate the factor that fans hate the most, the committee selection with poll influence. People want to see an on field champion so the conference structures will have to be used to produce on field champions.

Telemarketers are the ones who like committees and polls because they can be jobbed to to give them predictable markets for the big final games every year. If there is a move to this kind of hands off, interference free, let it be decided on the field mentality fans will buy back in, especially if they find ways to include more schools to hold more interest while using a hands off selection process, meaning a natural one decided by the actual playing of the games.

Only Notre Dame will be impacted drastically by this. Texas and Oklahoma can be accommodated by creating a more regional division for them in either the PAC, SEC, or Big 10. With some shuffling around the edges of each surviving conference a little more equity can be found.

If they ever allow the conferences that comprise such a set up to bargain collectively then competitive advantages can be leveled a bit more. The more schools that legitimately have a shot at the start of a year the more people will be interested. And if the theoretical possibility is there for any school the more their fans interest will be tweaked as well. Right now each conference has too many schools whose fan bases simply realize their schools chances are virtually nil. They either don't have the revenue or they don't have the market draw to be network darlings.

If it ever moves to just the top teams breaking away the game is over for all of them. No national broad based appeal to a season means fewer viewers, and fewer national games of interest and records for the top teams that the fan bases don't like. Bye bye football.

And these scenarios of a 48 school P2 accomplishes the same demise for football.

I don't disagree but those are far more likely than the top brands going indy. There are three kinds of posts that many posters, including myself, make. There is the way things are posts which acknowledge the current issues, geography, disparity in revenue, regional differences in the views on life, etc, and they give us a "what is likely, what is not likely" way of looking at things. For instance schools don't move for less. Schools that have a set of sports which are important to them don't move to conferences where those sports aren't equally offered or cherished, and even academic compatibility. A variant of that is what networks would likely be trying to accomplish. Merely plotting the properties on a map that ESPN holds full rights to will give you a solid indication of which schools they might like to acquire next.

Then there are the how to fix it posts, like the one I just made, and from your point of view the one you made. It is really more reflective of the mindset of the poster rather than what will actually happen.

Then there are the what is most likely to happen posts. These are not necessarily what the poster wants, but after examining the current business models, the factors that drive payouts in the food chain starting with the networks and working down, and considering current economic climate changes (COVID 19) make a certain set of moves (for the good or the ill) likely.

We are far more likely based upon economic factors to see these kinds of moves and right now they point to further consolidation, driven by the need of revenue by the schools to cover losses, by the networks to enhance quarterly profits, and by the current climate (regionality for minor sports) and those changes point to a much more likely 48 to 56 schools broken into 2 to 4 conferences and set up with an internal playoff structure designed to maximize viewers. Call it NFL lite if you would like, but it works to attain those objectives dictated by necessities or organizing principles of the entities involved. And that is far more likely and a wholly alien and disorganized move because like it or not, the networks now have more control over the games than the NCAA or the conferences. And basketball will follow.

If OU were to move as suggested in here to the B1G all of the sudden the XII isn't secure against a PAC raid.

PAC could get TT/UT/TCU and Oklahoma State which would be a game changer situation for them.

XII stays afloat with UH/SMU/Memphis/UC/Tulsa and looks like the old Missouri Valley conference.

NOBODY is going to the PAC ...ITS DONE ..!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

(01-21-2021 06:37 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The PAC 12 is going to have to do something and probably something big to get themselves back in a competitive position with their peer conferences.

Is a partial merger with the Big 12 a nuclear option they’d be willing to take?

I don't believe there is any way the PAC could do something that would make them competitive financially with the B1G and the SEC. The reasons for the gap in media revenues between them are outside their control. Yes, they could help themselves by better cost control, but that will only have a minimal impact on that gap.

They can only hope that some drastic change in media technology will shift things in their favor or that legislation will change the game in a major way. I doubt that the latter would occur in a way that benefits the PAC, and if I had an inkling about future technology changes I wouldn't be sharing it with you guys. I'd be planning how to spend my future billions by beating you all to the punch.

But if revenues were the major determinant of on field football success, Texas and Clemson would swap positions. So individual PAC schools can be competitive nationally in the future just like Clemson is in the present and USC has been in the past.

(01-25-2021 12:32 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:46 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 03:04 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I think the PAC 12 just needs to stay the course. Just a 6-7 years ago we all were busting on the ACC and to a lesser extent B10. Things go in cycles. USC has the resources to be a national player in football again and the same could be said of UCLA in basketball. Oregon is fairly capable of running the table in football as well. The PAC has its owm region locked up. I think what hurts the PAC the most is timezones.

I agree, but a lot will depend on the next media deal. If they get something similar to what they are already receiving, then I can see a school or two test the waters of going elsewhere.

One thing I could see is Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, OSU, USC, Oregon and Clemson doing is joining the ranks of Notre Dame as Independents. In terms of branding, each of these schools have outgrown the need of a conference.

On the contrary. I think Notre Dame has proven that they need at least a partial conference membership.

(01-25-2021 08:12 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 12:32 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:46 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 03:04 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I think the PAC 12 just needs to stay the course. Just a 6-7 years ago we all were busting on the ACC and to a lesser extent B10. Things go in cycles. USC has the resources to be a national player in football again and the same could be said of UCLA in basketball. Oregon is fairly capable of running the table in football as well. The PAC has its owm region locked up. I think what hurts the PAC the most is timezones.

I agree, but a lot will depend on the next media deal. If they get something similar to what they are already receiving, then I can see a school or two test the waters of going elsewhere.

One thing I could see is Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, OSU, USC, Oregon and Clemson doing is joining the ranks of Notre Dame as Independents. In terms of branding, each of these schools have outgrown the need of a conference.

On the contrary. I think Notre Dame has proven that they need at least a partial conference membership.

Good point

(01-25-2021 06:15 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  If OU were to move as suggested in here to the B1G all of the sudden the XII isn't secure against a PAC raid.

PAC could get TT/UT/TCU and Oklahoma State which would be a game changer situation for them.

XII stays afloat with UH/SMU/Memphis/UC/Tulsa and looks like the old Missouri Valley conference.

I think for the PAC for have a chance at getting UT they'd need a deal with Disney. If Comcast were to get the PAC rights then that option goes away from them.

(01-26-2021 10:07 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 06:15 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  If OU were to move as suggested in here to the B1G all of the sudden the XII isn't secure against a PAC raid.

PAC could get TT/UT/TCU and Oklahoma State which would be a game changer situation for them.

XII stays afloat with UH/SMU/Memphis/UC/Tulsa and looks like the old Missouri Valley conference.

I think for the PAC for have a chance at getting UT they'd need a deal with Disney. If Comcast were to get the PAC rights then that option goes away from them.

The PAC rejected a Disney offer before they tried to sell an equity stake in their network.
If Disney did business with the PAC, I would imagine the terms may be pretty punitive, and that Texas/ESPN would keep the LHN as a way to pay Texas extra monies.

(01-25-2021 08:12 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 12:32 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:46 AM)Thiefery Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 03:04 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I think the PAC 12 just needs to stay the course. Just a 6-7 years ago we all were busting on the ACC and to a lesser extent B10. Things go in cycles. USC has the resources to be a national player in football again and the same could be said of UCLA in basketball. Oregon is fairly capable of running the table in football as well. The PAC has its owm region locked up. I think what hurts the PAC the most is timezones.

I agree, but a lot will depend on the next media deal. If they get something similar to what they are already receiving, then I can see a school or two test the waters of going elsewhere.

One thing I could see is Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, OSU, USC, Oregon and Clemson doing is joining the ranks of Notre Dame as Independents. In terms of branding, each of these schools have outgrown the need of a conference.

On the contrary. I think Notre Dame has proven that they need at least a partial conference membership.

They could all become football independents and keep the other sports in a conference. Simple.