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Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
Shouldn't the Big Sky go after Seattle. I know they don't have football but they're right there in the footprint. WCC won't add them because of Gonzaga.
01-21-2021 05:52 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-21-2021 05:52 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Shouldn't the Big Sky go after Seattle. I know they don't have football but they're right there in the footprint. WCC won't add them because of Gonzaga.

Only if they're ever short on basketball members.
01-21-2021 06:07 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
I posted another article for the WAC FCS league that could be an FBS conference in 5 years instead. I think they may have schools line up for affiliates in football and play schools like Liberty, UConn, UMass and Army for scheduling agreements. Could the MVFC schools thinking of using the FBS route to move up? I could see Missouri State, Northern Iowa, NDSU, SDSU and Southern Illinois to make the move and the rest of MVFC could actually make scheduling arrangement with OVC.
01-21-2021 06:29 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-21-2021 06:07 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 05:52 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Shouldn't the Big Sky go after Seattle. I know they don't have football but they're right there in the footprint. WCC won't add them because of Gonzaga.

Only if they're ever short on basketball members.

I’m guessing they’re comfortable right now with 10. But in the (probably unlikely) event that another full member decides to move to the WAC, they’ll be down to 9 and then things could get interesting.
01-22-2021 07:07 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-21-2021 06:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I posted another article for the WAC FCS league that could be an FBS conference in 5 years instead. I think they may have schools line up for affiliates in football and play schools like Liberty, UConn, UMass and Army for scheduling agreements. Could the MVFC schools thinking of using the FBS route to move up? I could see Missouri State, Northern Iowa, NDSU, SDSU and Southern Illinois to make the move and the rest of MVFC could actually make scheduling arrangement with OVC.

At FBS, 8 of the football schools have to be full members. There’s a chance they could have 1-4 football affiliates. If they get the first 8 sorted out those affiliate spots would be highly coveted. With that said, I don’t know that those schools you mentioned would have interest.
01-22-2021 07:22 AM
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CoastalVANDAL Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-21-2021 04:39 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 04:28 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Realistically I think there are a whole slew of possibilities:

Periphery Big Sky schools like Weber St, UNC, NAU, or Sac St

D2 upgrades: WTAMU, A&M Kingsville, A&M Commerce

Or another Southland school

I have to think that the new NAU leadership should strongly consider putting themselves in a position where they are drinking for most of their Olympic sports conference games.

Drinking...?

I thought they were.
01-22-2021 08:11 AM
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CoastalVANDAL Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
They have six the Texas five and NMSU committed to FBS in the future.
So I would think the next add needs to be committed to FBS in the future.
01-22-2021 08:30 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-22-2021 08:30 AM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  They have six the Texas five and NMSU committed to FBS in the future.
So I would think the next add needs to be committed to FBS in the future.

Not correct. Sam Houston, according to Dr. Teague, is interested in an FBS path, as is UCA, but "other schools it's about basketball"

No timeline, no resources. If you do look at the FT undergraduate enrollments Sam Houston State (15,073) is the only one large enough to realistically consider FBS, although you could stretch for SFA (9,345) who are a basketball school. Lamar (5,730) and ACU (3,397) are simply too small, as probably too small also is UCA (7,832).

Move ups to FBS will be individual,when they can get invites or can demonstrate a willingness to spend $millions like Liberty to buy a schedule.

Also on the WAC loophole. I believe it was written with the expectation that the WAC would have 3 or 4 schools playing FBS and would through a combination of current FBS school invites and one or two FCS move ups cobble together enough to reestablish a conference. The idea was to keep the door open for the WAC while it had a few FBS members still there (NMSU, Idaho, UTSA, SJSU, USU) that they could get back to compliance with a move up or two. But we are way past that scenario. The idea of bringing 6 FCS schools up is not what was in mind. Original intent as it were. So the NCAA would be wise to strike that clause to avoid such a scenario.
01-22-2021 01:55 PM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
Would Idaho make a good Olympic travel partner with Seattle in this new WAC? If Idaho wants back FBS seems like it could work out. Lugging a football team to Moscow once every other year kinda sucks, but sending every Oly sport to Seattle for just one conference game seems like money could be saved by getting two conference games with the travel partner UoI
01-22-2021 02:19 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-22-2021 02:19 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Would Idaho make a good Olympic travel partner with Seattle in this new WAC? If Idaho wants back FBS seems like it could work out. Lugging a football team to Moscow once every other year kinda sucks, but sending every Oly sport to Seattle for just one conference game seems like money could be saved by getting two conference games with the travel partner UoI

Some Idaho backers want to be in FBS. But they are not willing to raise $50m to spend on upgrading, and the $10m more per year in donations and ticket sales needed to sustain FBS level (they want FBS but somebody else, namely the Idaho taxpayers, to pay for it). That is why they dropped down and will stay down in FCS. Their enrollment is too low for FBS anyway, and the school too remote for most successful alumni to ever go to games (similar problem the much larger Washington State Cougars face in the P12, trying to maintain a P5 level budget - but they have way more alumni and way more money).

Utah Valley is the current travel partner as it's a common commuter flight (9 to 11 such flights daily) from SeaTac to SLC. Leaving Idaho (Pullman, Washington) is more difficult to get home, as you generally have to fly to Seattle to get a connector.

But if you flip it, Seattle would be a good connector hub for the current Big Sky, with direct flights to each of the schools local airports, except NoCo and Idaho State. But Idaho State is partnered with Weber State, since there are connectors to SLC. Anyway if NoCo somehow magically vanished, Seattle would make sense from a logistical standpoint for the Big Sky, as a 10 in Basketball everyone can get to (football you leave alone as NoCo leaving would likely return 3-4 more old guard rivalries to the schedule annually -- addition by subtraction).
(This post was last modified: 01-23-2021 04:24 PM by Stugray2.)
01-22-2021 02:34 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-22-2021 02:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 02:19 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Would Idaho make a good Olympic travel partner with Seattle in this new WAC? If Idaho wants back FBS seems like it could work out. Lugging a football team to Moscow once every other year kinda sucks, but sending every Oly sport to Seattle for just one conference game seems like money could be saved by getting two conference games with the travel partner UoI

Some Idaho backers want to be in FBS. But they are not willing to raise $50m to spend on upgrading, and the $10m more per year in donations and ticket sales needed to sustain FBS level (they want FBS but somebody else, namely the Idaho taxpayers, to pay for it). That is why they dropped down and will stay down in FCS. Their enrollment is too low for FBS anyway, and the school too remote for most successful alumni to ever go to games (similar problem the much larger Washington State Cougars face in the P12, trying to maintain a P5 level budget - but they have way more alumni and way more money).

Utah Valley is the current travel partner as it's a common commuter flight (9-11 such flights daily) from SeaTac to SLC. Leaving Idaho (Pullman, Washington) is more difficult to get home, as you generally have to fly to Seattle to get a connector.

But if you flip it, Seattle would be a good connector hub for the current Big Sky, with direct flights to each of the schools local airports, except NoCo and Idaho State. But Idaho State is partnered with Weber State, since there are connectors to SLC. Anyway if NoCo somehwo magically vanished, Seattle would make sense from a logistical standpoint for the Big Sky, as a 10 in Basketball everyone can get to (football you leave alone as NoCo leaving would likely return 3-4 more old guard rivalries to the schedule annually -- addition by subtraction).

No direct flights between Denver and Seattle?
01-22-2021 03:01 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-22-2021 03:01 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 02:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 02:19 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Would Idaho make a good Olympic travel partner with Seattle in this new WAC? If Idaho wants back FBS seems like it could work out. Lugging a football team to Moscow once every other year kinda sucks, but sending every Oly sport to Seattle for just one conference game seems like money could be saved by getting two conference games with the travel partner UoI

Some Idaho backers want to be in FBS. But they are not willing to raise $50m to spend on upgrading, and the $10m more per year in donations and ticket sales needed to sustain FBS level (they want FBS but somebody else, namely the Idaho taxpayers, to pay for it). That is why they dropped down and will stay down in FCS. Their enrollment is too low for FBS anyway, and the school too remote for most successful alumni to ever go to games (similar problem the much larger Washington State Cougars face in the P12, trying to maintain a P5 level budget - but they have way more alumni and way more money).

Utah Valley is the current travel partner as it's a common commuter flight (9-11 such flights daily) from SeaTac to SLC. Leaving Idaho (Pullman, Washington) is more difficult to get home, as you generally have to fly to Seattle to get a connector.

But if you flip it, Seattle would be a good connector hub for the current Big Sky, with direct flights to each of the schools local airports, except NoCo and Idaho State. But Idaho State is partnered with Weber State, since there are connectors to SLC. Anyway if NoCo somehwo magically vanished, Seattle would make sense from a logistical standpoint for the Big Sky, as a 10 in Basketball everyone can get to (football you leave alone as NoCo leaving would likely return 3-4 more old guard rivalries to the schedule annually -- addition by subtraction).

No direct flights between Denver and Seattle?

He references "local airports" and Northern Colorado is in Greeley, not Denver.

Having said that, Greeley is only an hour's drive from DIA.
01-22-2021 04:15 PM
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46566 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-22-2021 07:07 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 06:07 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 05:52 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Shouldn't the Big Sky go after Seattle. I know they don't have football but they're right there in the footprint. WCC won't add them because of Gonzaga.

Only if they're ever short on basketball members.

I’m guessing they’re comfortable right now with 10. But in the (probably unlikely) event that another full member decides to move to the WAC, they’ll be down to 9 and then things could get interesting.

I have to agree. Is there any viable all sports option if NAU or North Colorado leaves? About the only teams they can afford to lose would be UC Davis or Cal Poly. Would San Diego be willing to add scholarships for a football only invite with Seattle taking the olympic sport spot if a football playing member leaves?
01-22-2021 04:27 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
Hmmm, could this work in two to three years for the start of an FBS conference?

East:
Jacksonville State
Eastern Kentucky
Youngstown State
Liberty
UMass.
UConn.
They all would be affiliates to the WAC FBS.
WAC West:
New Mexico State
Lamar
Sam Houston State
SFAU
Boise State full invite and give Boise the deal for them to sell the rights to their home games more than the MWC deal was.
NDSU affiliate.

You have the 5 teams ready for bowls that do count which would give more time for the rest of the WAC and ASUN schools get the money to upgrade to go FBS. Later, ASun can invite UConn and UMass as affiliates.
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2021 04:31 PM by DavidSt.)
01-22-2021 04:30 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-22-2021 04:27 PM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 07:07 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 06:07 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 05:52 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Shouldn't the Big Sky go after Seattle. I know they don't have football but they're right there in the footprint. WCC won't add them because of Gonzaga.

Only if they're ever short on basketball members.

I’m guessing they’re comfortable right now with 10. But in the (probably unlikely) event that another full member decides to move to the WAC, they’ll be down to 9 and then things could get interesting.

I have to agree. Is there any viable all sports option if NAU or North Colorado leaves? About the only teams they can afford to lose would be UC Davis or Cal Poly. Would San Diego be willing to add scholarships for a football only invite with Seattle taking the olympic sport spot if a football playing member leaves?

San Diego doesn't seem inclined to add FB scholarships.
01-22-2021 06:58 PM
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46566 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-22-2021 06:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 04:27 PM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 07:07 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 06:07 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 05:52 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Shouldn't the Big Sky go after Seattle. I know they don't have football but they're right there in the footprint. WCC won't add them because of Gonzaga.

Only if they're ever short on basketball members.

I’m guessing they’re comfortable right now with 10. But in the (probably unlikely) event that another full member decides to move to the WAC, they’ll be down to 9 and then things could get interesting.

I have to agree. Is there any viable all sports option if NAU or North Colorado leaves? About the only teams they can afford to lose would be UC Davis or Cal Poly. Would San Diego be willing to add scholarships for a football only invite with Seattle taking the olympic sport spot if a football playing member leaves?

San Diego doesn't seem inclined to add FB scholarships.

Fair enough. I would think that they would be the first call before looking at D2 call-ups if they needed a football school.
01-22-2021 08:12 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-22-2021 04:30 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Hmmm, could this work in two to three years for the start of an FBS conference?

East:
Jacksonville State
Eastern Kentucky
Youngstown State
Liberty
UMass.
UConn.
They all would be affiliates to the WAC FBS.
WAC West:
New Mexico State
Lamar
Sam Houston State
SFAU
Boise State full invite and give Boise the deal for them to sell the rights to their home games more than the MWC deal was.
NDSU affiliate.

You have the 5 teams ready for bowls that do count which would give more time for the rest of the WAC and ASUN schools get the money to upgrade to go FBS. Later, ASun can invite UConn and UMass as affiliates.

Im not sure this would go well. If this type of conference worked, CUSA would have already expanded with some of these schools and go straight divisional games except for championship game & tourneys. However, there is potential at the same time I guess.
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2021 08:50 PM by Troy_Fan_15.)
01-22-2021 08:49 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
(01-22-2021 04:27 PM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-22-2021 07:07 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 06:07 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 05:52 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Shouldn't the Big Sky go after Seattle. I know they don't have football but they're right there in the footprint. WCC won't add them because of Gonzaga.

Only if they're ever short on basketball members.

I’m guessing they’re comfortable right now with 10. But in the (probably unlikely) event that another full member decides to move to the WAC, they’ll be down to 9 and then things could get interesting.

I have to agree. Is there any viable all sports option if NAU or North Colorado leaves? About the only teams they can afford to lose would be UC Davis or Cal Poly. Would San Diego be willing to add scholarships for a football only invite with Seattle taking the olympic sport spot if a football playing member leaves?

Part of the calculus here is that if the Big Sky loses one more all-sports member they may not want to backfill with a school that has football. They’ll be down to only 9 for basketball but will still have 11 for football (with UCD and Cal Poly as football-only members) which is ample for FCS (where conferences can’t have divisions if they want to participate in the playoffs and the regular season is only 11 games). So in that scenario Seattle may actually have a leg up.
01-23-2021 04:16 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Waiting for the WAC no. 14 announcement
San Diego is not considering scholarship football. They only have a field, not a stadium, so it would be an expensive undertaking (California real estate). Also it's a small urban school. And there is a strong faculty movement on campus to ban the sport completely. Moving from non-scholarship, where the argument is it brings students in who help pay the professors salaries, to one where the school is spending money on scholarships and sending more money to the athletic department instead of the faculty ... well not a wining argument. Besides there is zero alumni or student support. Azusa Pacific dropped football. The conditions simply don't work for Football in California for small private schools.

Understand this also people:

UC Davis and Cal Poly are NOT associate members of the Big Sky, rather full partners, but for football only. Fullerton did this intentionally when they invited them, wanting all FCS football school in the West in the Big Sky. There is no mechanism to expel them, they are equity members. And anyway they have no desire to leave, and there is no movement to push them out. They are not going anywhere.

Greeley is a bit out there, but yeah it's no worse a drive from DIA to NoCo than it is from SLC to Weber. So you can scratch that comment. HawaiiMongoose is correct, the calculus of the Northern group of Big Sky schools (that NoDak could not believe his Midwestern school was not considered part of) is addition by subtraction. Each Great West school that leaves undoes the damage Fullerton wrought by returning 3 more old guard rivalry games to the football schedule.

Also you guys are willfully ignorant of how FCS playoffs work, which renders divisions meaningless in Football. Having a conference Championship game means those two schools are dropping out of the Playoff. There is no room in the FCS calendar for such a game. So forget it.
01-23-2021 04:52 PM
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