There is not going to be another FBS conference. You guys have tortured Dr. Teague's remarks to fulfill your fantasies.

What he said is

1) Central Arkansas wants to start a move to FBS in 2-3 years
2) He "hopes" other schools are similarly interested
// he went off in happy dreamland about how that would be great, they'd join Liberty in a new ASUN FBS conference
// reminds me of Moccia making a happy dream comments, that it'd be great if the WAC schools wanted to go FBS giving his NMSU a home
3) He mentioned that Sam Houston has expressed interest in getting to FBS (eventually)
// but he tempered his comments on the above (both conferences IMO) saying some schools are moving for basketball.

Moccia made a more sober remark, that possibly one or two of the moving schools might move up to FBS in the future.

That does not constitute a conference moving up. And there is no mechanism for such to happen anyway. Not even the WAC, despite the "loophole" in the ByLaws. The powers that be will gatekeep any move up schools. They made Liberty jump through hopes, demonstrate the financial resources and commitment to schedule as an Independent for the better part of a decade to get a waiver from the conference invite rule. All these move up fantasies ignore that. The WAC loophole can be removed as soon as it looks like it's about to be invoked, or it can be ruled not to be applicable. None of the G5 want an additional G5 conference, and the P5 are already annoyed there are so many G5 schools.

I’m still not getting the UCA move. The Southland, at 7 football members and 2 non-football members, was still quite viable. The geography was favorable too. They just needed to find 2 D2 call ups for football. A&M Commerce and A&M Kingsville (either on their own or merged into A&M CC) and their problems are solved.

I don’t see how going to a conference that is not travel friendly that has 2 FCS schools and a lot of good intentions is a better situation.

(01-20-2021 02:56 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is not going to be another FBS conference. You guys have tortured Dr. Teague's remarks to fulfill your fantasies.

What he said is

1) Central Arkansas wants to start a move to FBS in 2-3 years
2) He "hopes" other schools are similarly interested
// he went off in happy dreamland about how that would be great, they'd join Liberty in a new ASUN FBS conference
// reminds me of Moccia making a happy dream comments, that it'd be great if the WAC schools wanted to go FBS giving his NMSU a home
3) He mentioned that Sam Houston has expressed interest in getting to FBS (eventually)
// but he tempered his comments on the above (both conferences IMO) saying some schools are moving for basketball.

Moccia made a more sober remark, that possibly one or two of the moving schools might move up to FBS in the future.

That does not constitute a conference moving up. And there is no mechanism for such to happen anyway. Not even the WAC, despite the "loophole" in the ByLaws. The powers that be will gatekeep any move up schools. They made Liberty jump through hopes, demonstrate the financial resources and commitment to schedule as an Independent for the better part of a decade to get a waiver from the conference invite rule. All these move up fantasies ignore that. The WAC loophole can be removed as soon as it looks like it's about to be invoked, or it can be ruled not to be applicable. None of the G5 want an additional G5 conference, and the P5 are already annoyed there are so many G5 schools.

After this pandemic struck? It hurt all schools big time with the lost of the basketball tournament, ticket sales to sporting events and all that. The FBS schools need to recoup all the money lost, and if they give a waiver to schools that want to move up now as an Independent to transition? It would not eat into the playoffs money right away. The next contract could add more money from streaming and more bowls being added. As it is in the FCS? You have richer schools who are being hamstrong by the poorer schools. The top FCS schools are actually FBS type schools instead of FCS.
Big Sky
MVFC
CAA
OVC
Southern
ASUN
WAC
Have more schools that have the money and resources to be FBS which they are better than the lower end FBS schools like La.-Monroe.

(01-20-2021 02:56 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is not going to be another FBS conference. You guys have tortured Dr. Teague's remarks to fulfill your fantasies.

What he said is

1) Central Arkansas wants to start a move to FBS in 2-3 years
2) He "hopes" other schools are similarly interested
// he went off in happy dreamland about how that would be great, they'd join Liberty in a new ASUN FBS conference
// reminds me of Moccia making a happy dream comments, that it'd be great if the WAC schools wanted to go FBS giving his NMSU a home
3) He mentioned that Sam Houston has expressed interest in getting to FBS (eventually)
// but he tempered his comments on the above (both conferences IMO) saying some schools are moving for basketball.

Moccia made a more sober remark, that possibly one or two of the moving schools might move up to FBS in the future.

That does not constitute a conference moving up. And there is no mechanism for such to happen anyway. Not even the WAC, despite the "loophole" in the ByLaws. The powers that be will gatekeep any move up schools.

I think efforts to ignore the loophole and keep the WAC down could run in to significant legal problems.

(01-20-2021 04:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m still not getting the UCA move. The Southland, at 7 football members and 2 non-football members, was still quite viable. The geography was favorable too. They just needed to find 2 D2 call ups for football. A&M Commerce and A&M Kingsville (either on their own or merged into A&M CC) and their problems are solved.

I don’t see how going to a conference that is not travel friendly that has 2 FCS schools and a lot of good intentions is a better situation.

I assume that UCA wants out for the same reasons as the 4 Texas schools that left for the WAC but that they want to be in a more eastern conference. A conference like the OVC would be better suited for UCA geographically than the WAC of course. However, I expect that UCA has been in discussions with EKU and Jacksonville State on the A-Sun move and that the OVC may be perceived as suffering from a similar lack of commitment to athletics (or FB specifically) as the Southland remnant.

The -- admittedly dubious -- belief that "the grass is always greener on the other side" seems to be dominating these decisions. Somehow joining in a new FCS conference barely scraped together from recent D2 callups is seen as more promising than the Southland or OVC. That may be true, but I'm guessing not significantly so. These moves are objectively worse from a travel perspective and lateral at best overall. There's going to be some real buyer's remorse soon enough.

(01-20-2021 04:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 02:56 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is not going to be another FBS conference. You guys have tortured Dr. Teague's remarks to fulfill your fantasies.

What he said is

1) Central Arkansas wants to start a move to FBS in 2-3 years
2) He "hopes" other schools are similarly interested
// he went off in happy dreamland about how that would be great, they'd join Liberty in a new ASUN FBS conference
// reminds me of Moccia making a happy dream comments, that it'd be great if the WAC schools wanted to go FBS giving his NMSU a home
3) He mentioned that Sam Houston has expressed interest in getting to FBS (eventually)
// but he tempered his comments on the above (both conferences IMO) saying some schools are moving for basketball.

Moccia made a more sober remark, that possibly one or two of the moving schools might move up to FBS in the future.

That does not constitute a conference moving up. And there is no mechanism for such to happen anyway. Not even the WAC, despite the "loophole" in the ByLaws. The powers that be will gatekeep any move up schools.

I think efforts to ignore the loophole and keep the WAC down could run in to significant legal problems.

I think you are wrong. NCAA legislation is written ex post facto.

The WAC may be able to move up, but that doesn't mean all the schools in it. They can form a conference with existing FBS schools, that will be the interpretation.

(01-20-2021 05:41 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 04:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 02:56 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is not going to be another FBS conference. You guys have tortured Dr. Teague's remarks to fulfill your fantasies.

What he said is

1) Central Arkansas wants to start a move to FBS in 2-3 years
2) He "hopes" other schools are similarly interested
// he went off in happy dreamland about how that would be great, they'd join Liberty in a new ASUN FBS conference
// reminds me of Moccia making a happy dream comments, that it'd be great if the WAC schools wanted to go FBS giving his NMSU a home
3) He mentioned that Sam Houston has expressed interest in getting to FBS (eventually)
// but he tempered his comments on the above (both conferences IMO) saying some schools are moving for basketball.

Moccia made a more sober remark, that possibly one or two of the moving schools might move up to FBS in the future.

That does not constitute a conference moving up. And there is no mechanism for such to happen anyway. Not even the WAC, despite the "loophole" in the ByLaws. The powers that be will gatekeep any move up schools.

I think efforts to ignore the loophole and keep the WAC down could run in to significant legal problems.

I think you are wrong. NCAA legislation is written ex post facto.

The WAC may be able to move up, but that doesn't mean all the schools in it. They can form a conference with existing FBS schools, that will be the interpretation.

We don't disagree about schools - for the WAC to sponsor FBS football it would have to have 8 schools that meet the various NCAA requirements for FBS. That's the same as it is for the SEC, btw. If an SEC school were to no longer meet the FBS requirements, its program would have to drop out of FBS, and if enough SEC schools fail to meet the requirements, the SEC would cease to be an FBS conference. No conference can make a non-compliant school an FBS school just because the conference is itself FBS.

But if the WAC has a sufficient number of schools that meet the FBS standard, then I do not think it can be denied status as an FBS conference.

(01-20-2021 04:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 02:56 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is not going to be another FBS conference. You guys have tortured Dr. Teague's remarks to fulfill your fantasies.

What he said is

1) Central Arkansas wants to start a move to FBS in 2-3 years
2) He "hopes" other schools are similarly interested
// he went off in happy dreamland about how that would be great, they'd join Liberty in a new ASUN FBS conference
// reminds me of Moccia making a happy dream comments, that it'd be great if the WAC schools wanted to go FBS giving his NMSU a home
3) He mentioned that Sam Houston has expressed interest in getting to FBS (eventually)
// but he tempered his comments on the above (both conferences IMO) saying some schools are moving for basketball.

Moccia made a more sober remark, that possibly one or two of the moving schools might move up to FBS in the future.

That does not constitute a conference moving up. And there is no mechanism for such to happen anyway. Not even the WAC, despite the "loophole" in the ByLaws. The powers that be will gatekeep any move up schools.

I think efforts to ignore the loophole and keep the WAC down could run in to significant legal problems.

I don't think there is a "WAC loophole."

Lots of times language in one part of the NCAA regs is clarified in another.

They may have had 2 years to recreate the league. But it is long since gone.

(01-20-2021 05:12 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 04:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m still not getting the UCA move. The Southland, at 7 football members and 2 non-football members, was still quite viable. The geography was favorable too. They just needed to find 2 D2 call ups for football. A&M Commerce and A&M Kingsville (either on their own or merged into A&M CC) and their problems are solved.

I don’t see how going to a conference that is not travel friendly that has 2 FCS schools and a lot of good intentions is a better situation.

I assume that UCA wants out for the same reasons as the 4 Texas schools that left for the WAC but that they want to be in a more eastern conference. A conference like the OVC would be better suited for UCA geographically than the WAC of course. However, I expect that UCA has been in discussions with EKU and Jacksonville State on the A-Sun move and that the OVC may be perceived as suffering from a similar lack of commitment to athletics (or FB specifically) as the Southland remnant.

The -- admittedly dubious -- belief that "the grass is always greener on the other side" seems to be dominating these decisions. Somehow joining in a new FCS conference barely scraped together from recent D2 callups is seen as more promising than the Southland or OVC. That may be true, but I'm guessing not significantly so. These moves are objectively worse from a travel perspective and lateral at best overall. There's going to be some real buyer's remorse soon enough.

The 5 schools leaving are 14-6 in conference right now. UCA is 2-3, Lamar 1-3 and the other 3 still unbeaten in conference play. So they are 1,2,3, 7 and tied for 8th in a 13 team conference.

(01-19-2021 03:43 PM)The Cats Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 02:39 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 04:17 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Who knows what will happen, honestly. THE CFP contract doesn't even expire until the end of the 2025-2026 season. Which means the ASUN needs to figure it out by then.

They are positioning themselves to become a fall back FBS conference for programs that get left out of the CUSA/SBC shuffle.

ASun and the WAC in FBS would create a low major tier in FBS football much like there is a tier like that in NCAA basketball. More stratification in performance outside the P5.

The WAC has a "possible" entry into the FBS as a conference (being a former FBS conference), the ASUN does not, and Liberty's threat of "religious persecution" will not get the ASUN a waiver like it did Liberty..

Heck, the SoCon was a former 1A conference, it has a better chance of moving up as a conference than does the ASUN.

ULM and Troy could be left floating out there. Liberty is already in the ASun so that makes 3.

NMSU and UMass could be hired in as FB only schools.

Then the ASun could upgrade Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Jacksonville St and voila.....you've got yourself an FBS conference. Actually need 8 all sport but could get a temp waiver.

This is not entirely different from where the SBC was sitting 7-8 years ago trying to rebuild.

One rumor I just read is that Austin Peay is now looking at a potential move to the ASun. If there is anything to it, it would be likely a defensive posture in case the top schools in the OVC bolt for greener pastures. We will see if anything comes of it.

(01-20-2021 11:04 PM)Columbia Blue Wrote:  One rumor I just read is that Austin Peay is now looking at a potential move to the ASun. If there is anything to it, it would be likely a defensive posture in case the top schools in the OVC bolt for greener pastures. We will see if anything comes of it.

That could be the 6th school, public as Teague said.

Who besides Murray and Belmont are the top schools in the OVC?

(01-21-2021 12:01 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 11:04 PM)Columbia Blue Wrote:  One rumor I just read is that Austin Peay is now looking at a potential move to the ASun. If there is anything to it, it would be likely a defensive posture in case the top schools in the OVC bolt for greener pastures. We will see if anything comes of it.

That could be the 6th school, public as Teague said.

Who besides Murray and Belmont are the top schools in the OVC?

Austin Peay, Eastern Kentucky, and recent years Jacksonville St has replaced Morehead St.

EIU, SIUE, SEMO, Tennessee-Martin, Tennessee Tech, and Tennessee St drag down the OVC to the dregs of D1 year after year.

(01-20-2021 10:16 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 03:43 PM)The Cats Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 02:39 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 04:17 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Who knows what will happen, honestly. THE CFP contract doesn't even expire until the end of the 2025-2026 season. Which means the ASUN needs to figure it out by then.

They are positioning themselves to become a fall back FBS conference for programs that get left out of the CUSA/SBC shuffle.

ASun and the WAC in FBS would create a low major tier in FBS football much like there is a tier like that in NCAA basketball. More stratification in performance outside the P5.

The WAC has a "possible" entry into the FBS as a conference (being a former FBS conference), the ASUN does not, and Liberty's threat of "religious persecution" will not get the ASUN a waiver like it did Liberty..

Heck, the SoCon was a former 1A conference, it has a better chance of moving up as a conference than does the ASUN.

ULM and Troy could be left floating out there. Liberty is already in the ASun so that makes 3.

NMSU and UMass could be hired in as FB only schools.

Then the ASun could upgrade Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Jacksonville St and voila.....you've got yourself an FBS conference. Actually need 8 all sport but could get a temp waiver.

This is not entirely different from where the SBC was sitting 7-8 years ago trying to rebuild.

I can assure you Troy wouldn’t get left behind by their current peers. That’s nonsense.

Sun Belt has a good thing going and is a stable conference. They have ZERO incentive to rearrange with CUSA if they don’t want to. In fact, in a few seasons, the Sun Belt could target top members of CUSA if they felt inclined.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(01-20-2021 11:04 PM)Columbia Blue Wrote:  One rumor I just read is that Austin Peay is now looking at a potential move to the ASun. If there is anything to it, it would be likely a defensive posture in case the top schools in the OVC bolt for greener pastures. We will see if anything comes of it.

Interesting. That would put the OVC at the bare minimum for football schools.

I would think Western Illinois is a shoein to keep football above the minimum.

I do wonder if Belmont will push for Lipscomb and Bellarmine to fill any open spots in order to push the conference to a more basketball oriented focus.

You still have Murray State out there too longing for the MVC.

It would be different having a bunch of 6 to 8 team football conferences, but if the ASun does get the OVC schools that could very well be the new normal

(01-21-2021 12:51 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 10:16 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 03:43 PM)The Cats Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 02:39 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 04:17 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Who knows what will happen, honestly. THE CFP contract doesn't even expire until the end of the 2025-2026 season. Which means the ASUN needs to figure it out by then.

They are positioning themselves to become a fall back FBS conference for programs that get left out of the CUSA/SBC shuffle.

ASun and the WAC in FBS would create a low major tier in FBS football much like there is a tier like that in NCAA basketball. More stratification in performance outside the P5.

The WAC has a "possible" entry into the FBS as a conference (being a former FBS conference), the ASUN does not, and Liberty's threat of "religious persecution" will not get the ASUN a waiver like it did Liberty..

Heck, the SoCon was a former 1A conference, it has a better chance of moving up as a conference than does the ASUN.

ULM and Troy could be left floating out there. Liberty is already in the ASun so that makes 3.

NMSU and UMass could be hired in as FB only schools.

Then the ASun could upgrade Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Jacksonville St and voila.....you've got yourself an FBS conference. Actually need 8 all sport but could get a temp waiver.

This is not entirely different from where the SBC was sitting 7-8 years ago trying to rebuild.

I can assure you Troy wouldn’t get left behind by their current peers. That’s nonsense.

Sun Belt has a good thing going and is a stable conference. They have ZERO incentive to rearrange with CUSA if they don’t want to. In fact, in a few seasons, the Sun Belt could target top members of CUSA if they felt inclined.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have to remember school administrators are not athletically minded and SBC is still considered the bottom conference my most of the public. If one school moves then logic goes out the window.

(01-21-2021 07:47 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 11:04 PM)Columbia Blue Wrote:  One rumor I just read is that Austin Peay is now looking at a potential move to the ASun. If there is anything to it, it would be likely a defensive posture in case the top schools in the OVC bolt for greener pastures. We will see if anything comes of it.

Interesting. That would put the OVC at the bare minimum for football schools.

I would think Western Illinois is a shoein to keep football above the minimum.

I do wonder if Belmont will push for Lipscomb and Bellarmine to fill any open spots in order to push the conference to a more basketball oriented focus.

You still have Murray State out there too longing for the MVC.

It would be different having a bunch of 6 to 8 team football conferences, but if the ASun does get the OVC schools that could very well be the new normal

Personally I'm a big fan of the idea of smaller conferences at the FCS level. Having a max of 6 or 7 conference games, a "money game", then still having a couple of options open for interesting non-conference opponents just seems like a way of making the schedule more exciting for the fans. As a UNA fan I wasn't thrilled about the Big South when we first moved up, but one thing I did appreciate was how small the conference was. It allowed us to go out and schedule Jax State, Chattanooga, etc. Now that the Big South has grown we are potentially locked back into only a scant few non-conference options, unless the ASUN idea happens.

I could see several of the 6-8 team conferences being open to scheduling alliances with adjacent conferences anyway, so I don't think any team should have trouble filling out a schedule in the future.

(01-21-2021 12:11 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 12:01 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 11:04 PM)Columbia Blue Wrote:  One rumor I just read is that Austin Peay is now looking at a potential move to the ASun. If there is anything to it, it would be likely a defensive posture in case the top schools in the OVC bolt for greener pastures. We will see if anything comes of it.

That could be the 6th school, public as Teague said.

Who besides Murray and Belmont are the top schools in the OVC?

Austin Peay, Eastern Kentucky, and recent years Jacksonville St has replaced Morehead St.

EIU, SIUE, SEMO, Tennessee-Martin, Tennessee Tech, and Tennessee St drag down the OVC to the dregs of D1 year after year.

I never understood the SIUE add. Marketz? Soccer? Why?

(01-21-2021 12:51 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 10:16 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 03:43 PM)The Cats Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 02:39 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 04:17 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Who knows what will happen, honestly. THE CFP contract doesn't even expire until the end of the 2025-2026 season. Which means the ASUN needs to figure it out by then.

They are positioning themselves to become a fall back FBS conference for programs that get left out of the CUSA/SBC shuffle.

ASun and the WAC in FBS would create a low major tier in FBS football much like there is a tier like that in NCAA basketball. More stratification in performance outside the P5.

The WAC has a "possible" entry into the FBS as a conference (being a former FBS conference), the ASUN does not, and Liberty's threat of "religious persecution" will not get the ASUN a waiver like it did Liberty..

Heck, the SoCon was a former 1A conference, it has a better chance of moving up as a conference than does the ASUN.

ULM and Troy could be left floating out there. Liberty is already in the ASun so that makes 3.

NMSU and UMass could be hired in as FB only schools.

Then the ASun could upgrade Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Jacksonville St and voila.....you've got yourself an FBS conference. Actually need 8 all sport but could get a temp waiver.

This is not entirely different from where the SBC was sitting 7-8 years ago trying to rebuild.

I can assure you Troy wouldn’t get left behind by their current peers. That’s nonsense.

Sun Belt has a good thing going and is a stable conference. They have ZERO incentive to rearrange with CUSA if they don’t want to. In fact, in a few seasons, the Sun Belt could target top members of CUSA if they felt inclined.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never say never

I don’t think it would have anything to do with the institution itself or athletic programs, since Troy is synonymous with football success.

More so, geography is the problem. I have a hard time seeing UAB wanting them or USA in a conference with them. So if realignment happens and UAB is not invited to the AAC it is highly doubtful they want to be in the same conference as USA/Troy.

I could be wrong, but if I’m not, then Troy’s only real option would be a TX-heavy western-based league made up of mostly C-USA west schools.

That only works if UTEP is gone, and the hypothetical league doesn’t have to reserve a spot for UTEP’s potential travel partner NMSU.

You can probably tell my thinking is heavily influenced by the idea of a C-USA split. That probably won’t happen, so Troy and USA are safe.

That also means Monroe is safe FOREVER

Its been over 60 days since the news of 60 day discussions with Jax St, EKU, and UCA.

Only UCA is official. I wonder if that means the OVC held strong